soldiers returning with no legs still support bush. how sad is that?

[mopaul]

even after their faces have been disfigured forever, after they've lost an arm or leg or eye, not all but most STILL support bush and his agenda, and they still love their country. how sad is that?

goddamn bush you are an asshole of the first degree the way you exploit these young men and women, goddamn you to hell.

[xultar]

1. They didn't say they still supported Bush. They said they wanted to

finish the job.

[GreenArrow]

19. same difference...

the job they've been doing is to be used like toilet paper.

[xultar]

27. No. Not the same difference.

[GreenArrow]

30. yes, same difference

What is their job? To be used like human toilet paper.

Who is doing the wiping? Bush.

There is no job in Iraq worth doing except getting the hell out and spending the rest of our lives paying, in one way or another, for what we have done there.

[sweettater]

2. brainwashed?

:shrug:

[flordehinojos]

5. oh, yes! that is exactly what i thought. additionally,

can you imagine their desperation if they were ever to confront the truth that they lost their limb, their face, part of their brains for some no good asshole bush boy who had no business sending them to occupy and colonize a country that belongs only to the iraqis?

they have to believe that they gave their limbs, their face, part of their brains, or whatever part of them was injured, to some NOBLE CAUSE...and even as it is, many of them commit suicide (and at least one iraqi veteran in MIAMI, bludgeoned a grounds keeper to the point of near death before he was shot and killed by the police who had not been able to stop him from bludgeoning the innocent grounds keeper).

the bushes like to exact from society whatever debt the bushes think humans living in society owe them...(money for neill's silverado debacle, valerie plame for wilson outing bushie boy's lie, murtha being called a coward for speaking truth to power about iraq..etc)will the bushes ever be able to repay to societies around the world what they owe them for their transgressions against them--including their transgressions against americans and democracy--if Le Hague, or the American Justice System ever gets hold of them?

I doubt it...they are so despicable that an eternity of repaying what they've done would never catch up to what they have done

[ngGale]

3. Some will for awhile, before PTSD sets in....

then they will go through another stage of grief. At that point, God help us all...there will be no help for them. * doesn't have the program's to give them what they need, much less deserve.:cry:

[Disturbed]

4. They are brainwashed and it makes them feel better to

believe in the idea that they have fought for Freedom and Amerika.

[HereSince1628]

21. You are right that it probably makes them feel better.

These now disabled and disfigured veterans must work out a psychological space in which to live their lives. They must somehow rationalize the loss of their arms, legs, and faces.

They will face the their legacy of the war long long after most of us have gone on to worry about other things and only occassionaly return to consider the Iraq war.

As we love these family members and neighbors we need to help them through the personal hells they must face in finding a new existance.

Yeah sure they are probably rationalizing, yeah it probably does makes them feel better.

Thank God, something does.

[johnaries]

6. Ever see Born on the 4th of July?

Paralyzed from the waist down during Vietnam, he still supported the War - for a while. His eyes were opened eventually.

If you haven't seen it, rent it.

[CoffeeCat]

11. You're right exactly about "Born on the 4th of July"....

What happened to the soldier in "Born" is exactly what happened to many soldiers fighting in Vietnam--and it will be what many Iraqi War veterans experience.

While you're witnessin atrocities in war--you can't possibly face that your country's leaders are lying to you and using you as cannon fodder.

So, you go into denial. You say "stay the course" because you need to believe that the hell you experienced had deep meaning.

Ron Kovac in "Born" slowly realized how much his country screwed him over. The Iraqi Vets will realize it too.

It's so sick what we do to our brave, courageous soldiers.

We'll see a lot of PTSD with the Iraqi vets. We saw a ton after Vietnam and not as much in WW2. WW2 was a noble cause and a legitimate reason to send our soldiers off to fight. Although our soldiers are always brave and noble--unfortunately--with cases like Vietnam and Iraq--are leaders can be corrupt, pathological and destructive.

[whatever4]

23. All they have to do is do nothing, to be complicit

That's the real hard part, to me, that the war was willful, but our soldiers only do what they're told. Not willful. To be a part of something so awful it will ruin many of their lives just for having done it themselves, all they had to do was quietly accept orders. Remaining silent, they allowed the biggest crimes of all, genocide and torture, crimes against humanity and the trashing of a nation. Mentioning how much it's all cost in dollars sounds shallow in comparison, until we remember the resources we didn't have for the terrible natural disasters on the Gulf. The money and manpower lost cost us too, on top of everything else.

They stay the course and believe what is easiest to believe and what is safest to believe, what they are told to believe. No one there is reminding them that, in doing nothing, they may do the worst. "All it takes for..."? Horrible to see those simple, almost trite words come to real and bloody life.

Every single soldier we've got has the power within himself to refuse to fight. Every soldier took an oath to refuse illegal orders. "Obey only lawful orders" is what it says. There's a reason it says that. Every soldier has the obligation to refuse unlawful orders.

Every single one. Every single one that is disobeying his oath in this war is defeating our nation, our military, and our safety. They're forgetting the legality of the orders has no upper limit. The constitution is what is to be upheld, NOT a monarch. Uphold and defend the Constitution. Against ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. THAT is the real war, and I guess they don't realize...don't realize that in all reality, in Iraq, they're fighting for the enemy. Fighting for a man and a regime that is destroying the Constitution, something he has no right to do. Something they have sworn to defend.

[whatever4]

20. I agree, it was a great film to show disillusionment

It put a real human face and heart on the confused image we have of a Vietnam vet. I guess now it will be just as true for Iraq.

A side note, does anyone else know people who were very involved in ending the Vietnam war who are now, what can I say, almost incoherent over Iraq and BushCo in general? I think I'm angry and upset until I get around them, and then I see real seething anger. It's done a real head-trip on some people.

[CoffeeCat]

7. Our soldiers are being emotionally manipulated...

In order to survive the horrors of Iraq---the soldiers need to believe that this is an important, worthwhile mission.

If they allowed themselves to grasp that they are fighting a frivolous, meaningless war based on complete fabrication and neocon bullshit----then they could not function.

Their entire world would shatter.

They need to cling to the propaganda, because the reality of BushCo is horrifying.

Essentially, these soldiers are cannon fodder to BushCo. Their lives are expendable and BushCo does not care.

When reality sets in and the denial wears off--these soldiers will really need us. We'll be there, but I bet there will be a significant shortage of funds and services to help these soldiers.

[Disturbed]

10. Once they are back in Amerika...

the Bush Regime doesn't give a damn about them. The VA funds have been subject to deep cuts until Senators such as Kerry raised Hell about it.

[acmavm]

8. What's the alternative? Face the fact that you were maimed for nothing?

And you KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE that never did anything to you or your country?

[CoffeeCat]

14. That's a big part of it too...

...these soldiers have been trained to think of the Iraqis as the enemy.

We've killed how many innocent Iraqi people? How many children have died because of our bullets?

We were supposed to be "freeing" these people.

However--our soldiers are shooting at everyone. We used chemical weapons on these people.

I cannot get out of my head--that image of the man holding up the dead little girl. It was recently posted here on DU. I am so devastated by that image. Our soldiers see this stuff daily, and in some cases--caused the deaths of innocent men, women and children.

They will have to live with this reality. When you realize that you've been worked over and duped into seeing innocent, harmless people as vicious enemies---that's gotta be mind blowing.

And our government doesn't give a crap how this will affect the soldiers. They know what it will do to them. They saw the repercussions during Vietnam. They don't care.

It's so sick.

[noahmijo]

15. EXACTLY a friend of mine is an example of that

A friend of mine who joined up to get his citizenship served in Iraq and Afghanistan and he despises Bush.

But he said he doesn't like to hear people say that this war was for nothing-he disagrees with it entirely and he wishes it never would've happened, but given the fact that he lost a couple of friends and he himself almost bit it he just doesn't want to believe it was for nothing...

[Stahl]

9. They'll come to hate

Bush and the others long after "War on Terror" is forgotten. They'll have the rest of their lives to find out how meaningless their sacrifice eventually was.

[EFerrari]

12. I wonder. And am still waiting for the Thuggery to whip out

the military vote numbers that show an overwhelming support for His Idiocy.

It didn't happen.

Maybe the last people we should expect to go public are disabled people dependent on the military for their healthcare?

[kurth]

13. Cognitive Dissonance

[whatever4]

16. to hell and gone

"goddamn you to hell" to hell and gone forever

Let us never forget that over which we shall NEVER argue, regardless of party or belief, that this man and his associates represented NONE of us and we universally despise him. Forever. There will never be an excuse.

We can argue politics all day, but I just want to say, please don't forget, the law was broken by these people, people most loyal to the US were targeted by these people (Mr and Ms Wilson for starters) and what they did to our troops is as bad and it also includes the atrocities done to the Iraqi people by war and abuse by soldiers/federal authorities.

I see a lot of our soldiers having a lot of mental issues that will tear them apart later, obviously, and it might not hurt as much as the wounds, but, we all know sometimes the head is a LOT harder to fix. Sometimes there is no fix. Permanent damage to one that appears perfectly fine. I know it all goes without saying. In our heads it ought to add to the numbers.

I'm all with that damned to hell concept, when I wonder, idly, gee how many soldiers are actually "okay"? NOT how many are hurt in various ways, but rather, how many are left undamaged? Half? A third? A fifth? How many are, and will continue to be, "okay"? You know what I mean? Adding in depleted uranium and other toxins, brain damage and psychological issues they don't see yet, how many are "okay?" I just don't think we really know, all we have are stats for this, stats for that, but in the end, how many does it leave as "okay", with a quality of life, healthy family and normal life span? And my god, HOW many people have we sent there?? Just insane, what the US has done to it's own. Just normal business to BushCo I guess.

[0007]

17. I guess they can't feel their effort was in vain or else there would be

nothing left in the world to hang onto.

junior had no qualms of trashing Max Cleland.

Former Georgia Senator and triple amputee Max Cleland was turned away when he tried to deliver a letter calling on President Bush to condemn TV ads attacking fellow Vietnam veteran John Kerry’s military service.

[Stockholm]

18. How else can they justify their sacrifice?

Support the troops not the chickenhawk administration.

[Ganja Ninja]

22. Their wounds are still fresh and ...

nobody wants to think that the terrible price they've payed could have been in vain. Sadly after a few years of dealing with the VA their bitterness and resentment will come to the surface.

[Vinca]

24. It's hard to understand, but you can't fault them.

They need to believe their sacrifice was for something. The truly sad day will be when they realize it was for nothing.

[whatever4]

25. Disagree

I disagree, we have to fault them. But we have to stand with them while we fault them. They will fault themselves, most of them, eventually. We'll need to accept that. We need to accept them. Too many of us (and I wasn't one, but I know many here probably did) agreed with the Iraq war, and therefore, are responsible for sending in the troops. Some troops being mature enough to do their very best and not allow atrocities, others being too young to do more than not participate too much, in the hatred of the local peoples and appropriate treatment of them. Some we can fault that should have known better, others we all know are too young to possibly understand how awful what they've done truly is. They should all know better, from the minute they put on rank, but we know they don't. They can't. That's how young people are.

We have to fault them. We know this war is wrong, and to say otherwise is a lie. And we're DONE with lies, right?? For many they'll be faulting themselves. Killing families in cars, abusing and raping civilians is wrong, and none of what they've done in Iraq is what they would want done in THEIR home towns. To THEIR fathers and mothers and siblings and grandparents. It's a lack of humanity, and it's going to catch up with them.

They'll fault themselves, there's no way around it. We just have to accept them, and the fault, no matter how they feel. I mean, honestly, some of these troops will be lucky to feel at all, if you get right down to it. Fault them yes, but share the fault. Be honest about it. It's really all we can do.

[izzie]

26. Hard to give up some thing you thought a good thing.

No one wants to think they were wrong. I understand that.

[lonestarnot]

28. I guess it is difficult to give up a thought when you've sacrificed so

much for it.

[Bridget Burke]

29. Ask them again in a few years.

How many of today's homeless are Vietnam vets?

And--the veterans of The Good War? Even those who survived without injury kept secrets they could never tell. And took a few more drinks. (Yeah, I had some in my family. All gone now.)

[baldguy]

31. Nicolas Chauvin would be proud.

[lakeguy]

32. i suppose it might be hard to admit that you were fighting for a lie

if you lost both legs or other parts of your body. i know i'd be lying to myself and supporting just about anything, just so i wouldn't kill myself. imagine coming to terms with being disabled the rest of your life because someone else decided to use you. not a nice thought.