Lou Dobbs on Citizenship-Remind him ROVE+CHERTOFF have DUAL CITIZENSHIP

[mod mom]

Lou Dobbs did a story on citizenship and allegiance to the United States. He has been critical of the bu$h administration lately, so it might be helpful to remind him how appalling it is that two top level White House officials with the highest level of security clearance have dual citizenship-Michael Chertoff and Karl Rove.

Please join me in emailing Lou to remind him of this detail.

[email protected]

[Taverner]

1. What are their other citizenships?

I didnt know that

[mod mom]

4. Chertoff-Israel Rove-Germany

[Ignacio Upton]

7. Why does Rove have German citizenship?

Is he preparing to move to Germany if he gets indicted?

[Taverner]

8. I googled it - Rove is also a Nazi scion

"Rove, by the way, holds a dual citizenship, the US and Germany, and his diplomatic status would enable him to flee the country. If he were to escape to Switzerland he could not be extradited...

By the way, do you know Karl Rove's real name?

Karl Roverer. He is the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the man whose company built Birchenau, a concentration camp in Nazi Germany."

Interesting info if true (probably is.)

http://viewfromthemeadow.com/rovecialeak.html

[helderheid]

14. on who's side? When he was 19, his father walked out on the family and his

aunt and uncle broke the news that he wasn't his biological father. I have no info on who his natural father is.

[indepat]

17. Rove is seemingly knowledgeable of every technique employed

by that other country from the mid-30s to mid-40s and is seemingly a master of controlling propaganda and implementing corporatist virtues.

[Tight_rope]

19. Damn...I didn't know that about Rove....Now I know I hate the fucker more!

Good reseach Taverner.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. As much as I HATE Rove, that has only been reported by one person.

I have searched for confirmation and nothing about his grandfather comes up on the Internet. I believe Al Martini originally reported it and the story from this article spread like wildfire.

[dutchdemocrat]

34. It's not true...

Not that I am sticking up for Rove - I despise him - but Al Martin (who originally wrote this tale), if he did his research right would find the "gauleiter" of "Mecklenburg" was not Roverer... In fact there is no Karl Heinz Roverer or Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbüro AG that built Birkenau in the entire databases of at least four major holocaust archives I went through such as
http://www.holocaust-history.org/
http://www.remember.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/
http://www.mazal.org/Default.htm

I also double checked here (http://remember.org/educate/companies.html) to see if Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbüro AG would show up but nothing.

And the fact is, the Gauleiter of Mecklenburg
was a guy named Friedrich Hildebrandt (http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/nsdap-gau-mecklenburg.htm)

Mecklenburg Gauleiter List

Friedrich Hildebrandt (1925 - 1930)
? Albrecht (1930 - 1931)
Friedrich Hildebrandt (1931 - 1945)

--------------------------------

Funny enough Karl Röver was the gauleiter of Weser-Ems from 1929-1942. (http://www.skalman.nu/tredje-riket/r.htm#Rover,Karl)(http://www.skalman.nu/tredje-riket/r.htm)

Which is almost the same name as Karl Rove but not the one given in the article. Not sure if Al Martin got lazy or if this is the right guy? Karl Rover also tried to stop the war and died under mysterious circumstances.
(http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/NSDAP/Gauleiter_R-Z.html)

As I said, I don't like the guy, but I think that these kinds of lies do more damage than good for the left.

[Kellanved]

51. There is a spin-off of the story naming Röver as the granddad

Which doesn't work either, as that guy had no surviving children. (although there are enough anecdotal stories around the person to make a case far more convincing than the al Martin fairy tale).




Also, Birkenau wasn't built by private enterprises at all, but by the SS directly. While there were contractors (the infamous Topf und Söhne, for instance), no "Süddeutsches Ingenieurbüro" is named among them.
And Buchenwald wasn't built by an "Süddeutsches Ingenieurbüro" either.


Dutchdemocrat, thanks for the rebuttal :toast:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. Thank you dutchdemocrat for this! I did this search quite some time ago

and didn't want to have to go through it again.

If you take a look at this thread right now, it appears that more people have bought this urban myth, hook, line and sinker. It makes everyone who recites it look foolish, and it seems that it's the same kind of misinformation that Rove himself would spread in order to discredit those who use it.

[Ignacio Upton]

25. WTF?

I think I've heard about this. I wonder if this is true .

[AspenRose]

35. If Rove has dual (German) citizenship he should have served in the

German military when he turned 18. (They still have conscription, don't they?)

[Kellanved]

52. nah

Germany doesn't generally allow dual citizenship. It is not impossible, but unlikely.
Also, Germans living abroad are exempt from the draft.

[LostinVA]

53. I know many people (7) with dual US-German citizenship

And that's just in my company -- about 500 people.

If you have a parent (and MAYBE grandparent) who's German, you can do it. Ireland is the same. I have dual US-Italian citizenship because my GREAT grandfather never became a US citizen. After 2000 and 2004, anybody I know who could do this, did it.

[IntravenousDemilo]

12. If he does, he'll be apprehended as a war criminal. n/m

[europegirl4jfk]

26. Please!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!

I don't live in Germany anymore but I'm sure they don't want Rove there! We had enough Nazis in Germany. Please America, convict him and put him in jail!

[Quakerfriend]

2. Please, tell us more.

Where are they citizens, other than in the USA?

[Little Star]

3. Done & Kick

[screembloodymurder]

5. Rove?

What country? I can't believe that they are the only ones.

[merwin]

6. I don't see how dual-citizenship makes a difference at all.

It should not be brought into the fight, IMO. If it is, we're that much closer to entering into a new McCarthy era

[izzybeans]

13. I agree. nt

[pmegan]

15. I dunno...

... I was told not even bother applying for security clearance back when I was a government contractor, because I'm married to a non-US citizen.

[mod mom]

16. with all due respect, I disagee. They have the highest level of security

clearance. If things got hot legally (which very well could happen ) they might divulge top secret information to their dual country. I am not against dual citizenship, just not when high level security clearance is concerned.

[Tight_rope]

24. I totally agree.

NO DUAL CITIZENSHIP WITH HIGH LEVEL SECURITY CLEARANCE.

[Qibing Zero]

18. Agreed for sure. nt

[screembloodymurder]

27. I disagree!

When you are part of an administration your loyalties should be above suspicion.

[Telly Savalas]

44. It does if you're a bigoted asshole like Lou Dobbs.

Why the fuck do people here give any respect to Lou Dobbs?

Because he's not happy with Bush?

Whoopty-shit.

Fred Phelps isn't happy with Bush either, should we all suck his dick too?

[LostinVA]

54. I couldn't get a job in the Foreign Service because of mine

I'd have to give it up. And I ain't giving up that EU passport, man.

A friend from college lived in Japan from 1987-2004. Came back here for some reason, tried to get a job with the State Department or Foreign Service. He speaks fluent Japanese, they really wanted him. Can't get a job with them because of his wife. Even IF she becomes an American citizen. Japan. One of our allies.

[DemInDistress]

9. Done..I was brief but to the point

it stinks.....Rove a German agent and Chertoff a Likuder.I asked Lou
why no attention to this matter,not a spoken word.

[DemInDistress]

10. Done..I was brief but to the point

it stinks.....Rove a German agent and Chertoff a Likuder.I asked Lou
why no attention to this matter,not a spoken word.

[pmegan]

11. A whole new Rove...

...is appearing before my very eyes tonight. Wow.

[geek tragedy]

21. Please don't spread idiotic lies here.

Chertoff is not an Israeli citizen. That is a rumor started by Jew-baiting cranks.

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. I do believe Chertoff is a dual citizen.

And I know for a fact that Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, and others among the PNAC cabal are dual citizens. The PNAC documents themselves were an outgrowth of similar documents which Perle & Feith wrote with and for the Netanyahu Likud government. Like the 2000 PNAC manifesto, the 1995 Likud document also specifically mentioned the invasion and "regime change" of Iraq .

[geek tragedy]

48. You know that not all Jews have dual loyalty, right?

I'd love to see your sources for those claims. Sites without burning crosses or swastikas, please.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. I love to see those claims too.

Everything I have found says it is a "well known fact," yet none say how they came to this knowledge. So, it seems it is 'well-known,' just not "well-documented." I am so not surprised.

So you know, the "proof" will come in the proof of articles from counterpunch, and informationclearninghouse and all from the same person.

[mod mom]

22. MODS- It was my understanding that this information was correct, if

it is false , please remove this thread. I am not trying to start rumors-I thought it to be true.

[ducque]

23. My son has this problem as well ...

My son is graduating from graduate school in Washington D. C. this spring. He's in international relations, specializing in developing peace processes and defusing conflicts. He speaks English, Hebrew and Arabic fluently. He's been working more than half time at a Washington policy think tank for more than a year. He has already had articles published, and will have his name on a book next year as co-author.

But he's been advised to "never mind applying for the US civil service, the FBI or the CIA".

Why?

We hold Israeli passports as well as US. And he has been told that nothing would change even if he renounced his Israeli citizenship.

Hrmph.

[Rebellious Republican]

28. Google Karl Rove dual citizenship, I found many hits.....

most were blogs that had no apparent evidence. I did find this piece from what looks like a reliable source.

Rove Receives Historic
Letter from Norway
It is widely known within the White House that Bush’s senior adviser, Karl Rove, is proud of his Norwegian roots. His Norwegian great grandfather, Olaf I. Rove, immigrated to America in 1884 and later became Norway’s Vice-Consul in Milwaukee, WI. His correspondence with Norwegian authorities has now been discovered in Oslo.
http://www.norway-times.com/2004_Main_Stories/Main_story_20.html

This what I found in Wekipedia as well....
Early life and high school
Rove was raised in Colorado and Nevada, the second of five children. His father, Louis Rove, was a mineral geologist, and his mother, Reba Wood, was a gift shop manager.

In 1960, at the age of 9 years old, Rove decided to support Richard Nixon. According to Rove, "There was a little girl across the street who was Catholic and found out I was for Nixon, and she was avidly for Kennedy. She put me down on the pavement and whaled on me and gave me a bloody nose. I lost my first political battle."

His family moved to Salt Lake City, Utah, in 1965, when Rove was entering high school. At Olympus High School, he used unorthodox (but legal) tactics to be elected student council president in 1968, even though he says "I was the complete nerd. I had the briefcase. I had the pocket protector. I wore Hush Puppies when they were not cool. I was the thin, scrawny little guy. I was definitely uncool."

Rove also began his involvement in American politics in 1968. In a 2002 Deseret News interview, Rove explained, "I was the Olympus High chairman for (former United States Senator) Wallace F. Bennett's re-election campaign, where he was opposed by the dynamic, young, aggressive political science professor at the University of Utah, J.D. Williams." <1> Bennett was reelected to a third six-year term. Through Rove's campaign involvement, Bennett's son, Bob Bennett — a future United States Senator from Utah - would become a friend. Williams would later become a mentor of Rove's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

Could just be the rumor mill, how about some links to back up those
statements. I would hope we are not like the freepers and jump on unsubstantiated claims. I am not defending the little turd blossom, just not wanting to become like freeper.com.

[kskiska]

29. Karen Hughes was born in Paris.

Really. And not Paris, Texas.

[C_U_L8R]

37. France ???

Oh the Freepers are gonna go absolutely ape over that....

[kskiska]

40. oui, oui…

http://www.counterbias.com/019.html

(snip)

Karen Hughes, one of George W. Bush’s chief propagandists, was herself born in France.

"I understand that Karen Hughes was born in Paris”, Kerry stated, on the 27 March 2004 broadcast of MSNBC’s Hardball. The host, Chris Matthews, a Democrat with Republican leanings (or is it the other way around?), found the comment funny—as most likely did every non-Bushist watching.

That’s right! Bush's fierce attack dog, sent out with her new book (which oddly enough wasn’t denounced by Bush fans for its political nature while everything critical about Bush is) to pounce on Kerry while consistently flattering her friend George to extremes, is a cheese-eating surrender monkey.

[DearAbby]

30. Michael Chertoff - Karl Rove has dual citizenship?

:wow:

[Rebellious Republican]

33. Dear Abby Dear Abby, those statements are uncoraborated...

No one has provided any real proof, sources are questionable. I would not get to excited just yet. :shrug:

Just had to reply cause I like your pseudonym, it reminds me of a John Prine tune from one of my favorite albums by him. If you are not familiar with his music here are the lyrics to Dear Abby...

Artist/Band: Prine John
Lyrics for Song: Dear Abby
Lyrics for Album: Great Days: The John Prine Anthology

Dear Abby, Dear Abby ...
My feet are too long
My hair's falling out and my rights are all wrong
My friends they all tell me that I've no friends at all
Won't you write me a letter, Won't you give me a call
Signed Bewildered

Bewildered, Bewildered...

Chorus:
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
My fountain pen leaks
My wife hollers at me and my kids are all freaks
Every side I get up on is the wrong side of bed
If it weren't so expensive I'd wish I were dead
Signed Unhappy

Unhappy, Unhappy...

Repeat Chorus

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
You won't believe this
But my stomach makes noises whenever I kiss
My girlfriend tells me It's all in my head
But my stomach tells me to write you instead
Signed Noise-maker

Noise-maker, Noise-maker

Repeat Chorus

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
Well I never thought
That me and my girlfriend would ever get caught
We were sitting in the back seat just shooting the breeze
With her hair up in curlers and her pants to her knees
Signed Just Married

Just Married, Just Married...

Repeat Chorus

:hi:

[DearAbby]

45. being serenaded on DU...who would have thunk it

:hi:

[Inland]

31. Just means Fitz should demand two passports upon indictment. nt

[SillyGoose]

32. No shit?

:wow:

I never heard this before! Thanks for posting this.

[BigBearJohn]

36. I was told you cant have a dual citizenship and hold a secret clearance

[geek tragedy]

38. These are nothing but unsubstantiated rumors. eom

[C_U_L8R]

39. Can't Germany recall Rove ....

for something... anything....
please just get him out of here

[AnnieBW]

41. Okaaaaay...

Back in the 1980's, I was trying to get my best friend from college to work at the "Nameless Government Agency" that I work at. She speaks five languages, including German, Turkish, and whatever Indonesian dialect they speak in the Jakarta. Her dad was an exec for a large international company. Unfortunately, they wouldn't accept her because she is a dual citizen - her mother is from Denmark and did not renounce her citizenship when she married my friend's father. So, how the heck do two big shots get a high security clearance when they're dual citizens?

[PhilipShore]

42. Karl Rove possibly linked to Muslim Brotherhood and Nazis

John Loftus bio

It is possible that John Loftus may know more intelligence secrets than anyone alive. As a former Justice Department prosecutor, Loftus once held some of the highest security clearances in the world, with special access to NATO Cosmic, CIA codeword, and Top Secret Nuclear files. As a private attorney, he works without charge to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. He is the author of four history books, three of which have been made into films, two were international best sellers, and one was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize. In 2002, the SHOWTIME channel will begin filming “SECRET WARS,” the pilot of a television series based on Loftus’ life story, starring Jon Voight and Aidan Quinn.

http://www.john-loftus.com/bio.asp

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f514.html

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f435.html

Highlighting and clarifying the subject of the Islamofascist Muslim Brotherhood, this program presents an interview with the heroic John Loftus, whose work has graced these pages extensively over the years. After discussing the fascist origins of the group and its alliance with the Third Reich during World War II, Loftus traces the Brotherhood’s postwar sponsorship by both British intelligence and the CIA. In addition to setting forth the CIA’s role in relocating many of the Brotherhood from Egypt to Saudi Arabia in the 1950’s, Loftus traces the evolution of the Brotherhood into the MAK—the name given the anti-Soviet Brotherhood elements active in Afghanistan in the 1980’s. After the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan, the MAK evolved into al Qaeda. Mr. Loftus traces the evolution of this Islamic fascist organization from World War II right on up through its alliances with GOP heavyweights Grover Norquist and Karl Rove.

At the core of the thesis presented in “For The Record” about... the Underground Reich. With Islamofascist elements attacking from without at the same time as elements of the Bormann group—crystallized in the Bush administration—subvert from within, the Underground Reich is perpetuating the Second World War after a fifty-year hiatus. At stake is nothing less than the survival of the United States, democracy, and civilization as we understand it.

[Telly Savalas]

43. Fuck Lou Dobbs. My daughter has dual citizenship.

She's only 3, but she certainly has keener critical thinking skills than that gasbag Mr. Dobbs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. What did Chertoof go to Israel and daw that passport?

I am not kidding, due to the law of return any Jew around the world can get it, but that does not mean every one does... god by this logic I have three... American (I took an oath), Mexican, (new law, does not give me teh abilty to vote but hells bells when my parents pass it will make life easier, I hope), and Israeli, though I never asked for it.

Oh and if you were born in France, you know it is IMPOSSIBLE to give ip up, didn't you?

[Pachamama]

50. I believe you are 1/2 correct - Chertoff has dual citizenship w/ Israel

...but Rove does not have dual citizenship. And while we all know that slimeball fascist reminds us of a nazi, lets not make the conclusion thus that he must be German. I have only heard of his "white pride" in his Norwegian heritage, and I'm pretty certain he doesn't have Norwegian citizenship. I'm pretty certain both country's would tell Mr. Rove he is not wanted as a citizen.

:hi: