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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 09:50 AM
Original message
DU Researchers: Help On Ohio
I need you guys to hunker down and look into Ohio because having covered Ohio, I have serious questions about the integrity of the voting results there.

Because the research will be a group effort, someone should take the lead as the group head and then sub-group leaders also: Team DU Ohio or something. Then divide up the research work:

Team DU Ohio A: General 3 County Focus

1). Clermont
2). Butler
3). Warren

Share general findings on DU but more "interesting" phenomenon via less public arena (Maybe Skinner could provide a password protected area for this project?). When done, send findings to me or Brad Friedman (Brad Blog).

Team DU Ohio B: Those in Ohio

1). Go to local dumpsters near counting locations and look for machine tape, ballots, and stockpiled stickers.

2). Go to local GOP offices and look for boxes and shredded materials in the back, if there are any (going by past reports).

3). Demand polling books NOW

4). Go to large warehouses used for some government offices and see if machines in poor areas are stored in larger numbers (that would indicate they were held back)

5). Go to local garbage dumps

6). If you have the time, get a camera and go into minority communities, ask people if they had:

a). They had gotten calls telling them their location for voting had changed (get roughly exact time if possible)
b). If they had gotten letters indicating any change in their location or precinct (get the letter if you can)
c). If they were stopped by police or harassed for any reason (get specifics and if possible, name of person, and contact information)

7). If you really have the time and can organize groups, go door to door in key areas (Clermont for example) and ask people what they voted for.

Again: Share general findings on DU but more "interesting" phenomenon via less public arena (Maybe Skinner could provide a password protected area for this project?). When done, send findings to me or Brad Friedman (Brad Blog).

Team DU Ohio C: Online

1). Names of all local chairs of GOP (who also head up BOE)

2). Of those, narrow your list to where there are couples (Wife is GOP head and husband BOE head, or whatever the roles are)

3). Compare those localities against the largest polling shift, complaints, etc.

4). Check hotels for large groups of "students" arriving during this period.

Share general findings on DU but more "interesting" phenomenon via less public arena (Maybe Skinner could provide a password protected area for this project?). When done, send findings to me or Brad Friedman (Brad Blog).

Team DU Ohio D: Techies/Stat Folks

1). Run analysis on disparity between polls and results

2). Check local online forums, groups, etc... people have to communicate when tech issues need to be organized... see if anything was being discussed that a lay person would not understand

3). Find out who the local contractors were, hired for tech support, usually each county hires a small company. Contact the tech lead on the ground there, ask them what, if anything, they felt seemed "odd"

4). Examine routing for the three counties listed above, were they all routed through regular channels or does there appear to be routing outside of normal channels

5). Those with time, go to the local office for that contracting company and look through dumpster

Not being a techie, I leave the rest of the suggestions to those who would know what to legally look for (legally look for being the operative phrase here... so no hacking please, otherwise, evidence cannot be used).

Again, share general findings on DU but more "interesting" phenomenon via less public arena (Maybe Skinner could provide a password protected area for this project?). When done, send findings to me or Brad Friedman (Brad Blog).

Any other sub-teams you can think of. It is still early enough that information can and should be identified.

If, after this effort, assuming people care enough to really put time and energy into it, the findings show that everything was above board, we can feel comfortable with the results, no matter what they are.

This is my suggestion, feel free to ignore, but an organized investigative effort, one that indie press do not have the resources for, should show one way or another what transpired.

One more thing, team leads should keep both me and Brad updated on findings and results and we can take each item/finding and explore it further.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Final Box Scores - Poll vs. Actual
Issue #1:
Poll: 53% YES, 27% NO, 20% Don't Know
Actual: 54.1% YES, 45.9% NO
YES was 1.1% off
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #2:
Poll: 59% YES, 33% NO, 9% Don't Know
Actual: 36.5% YES, 63.5% NO
YES was 22.5% off in favor of Blackwell

----------------------------------------------------
Issue #3:
Poll: 61% YES, 25% NO, 14% Don't Know
Actual: 33% YES, 67% NO

YES was 28% off in favor of Blackwell
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #4:
Poll: 31% YES, 45% NO, 25% Don't Know
Actual: 30.2% YES, 69.8% NO

YES was 0.8% off in favor of Blackwell
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #5:
Poll: 41% YES, 43% NO, 16% Don't Know
Actual: 29.8% YES, 70.2% NO

YES was 11.2% off in favor of Blackwell


Poll Link:
http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/11/06/20051106-A4-03.html

Actual Link:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/ElectionsVoter/Results2005.aspx

Funny how the poll was accurate in Issue#1 and TOTALLY off for all but one of the election reform issues 2 thru 5, huh? :shrug:
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Issue 2 was election reform?
Something really smells here.

The Ohio election fiasco had to have had all Democrats steaming over the underhand, maybe illegal tactics that Blackwell employed in 2004...which gave the election to Bush. The polls indicated a clear desire of the voters to make changes...

And the results were exactly opposite? There lies the smoking gun.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Issues 2 & 5 were the biggies...
Issue 2 would have allowed mail-in voting

Issue 5 would have given most of Blackwell's power to a bipartisan board.

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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. generally agree
there is a lot more that can be done to investigate elections at grassroots level
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Recommend and keep kicked please! n/t
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh how quickly good posts fall here in DU n/t
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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks LaLa...
...For getting out the word. OHIO results from last night stink to high heaven.

A couple of Ohio related articles listed here to get ya going as well:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001994.htm

And some stories from yesterday...

Montgomery Count:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001989.htm

Lucas County:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001987.htm

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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just gave it vote #5
Kick and rec.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. What went wrong in Ohio AGAIN? nm
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for getting this going, lala!
:yourock: You're the best!

:kick::kick::kick::kick:
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank You For Caring!
What about Franklin County?
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. sounds good...
i'd love to help...how would you find out about large groups of students in hotels?
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. call the hotels:)
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. How and why
did you choose these three counties? Can you provide us with a little more reason than a hunch?

Some of this obsession with Ohio is getting tiring. We Ohioans need to focus on strengthening our party here and this stuff is more than a little distracting.
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KerryOn Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. This stuff is important as well...
I think she picked those counties because they looked fishy during the last election.

I know some think it is nothing more than a conspiracy theory, but I truly believe something went wrong last year, and if it did last year than why would this year be any different?

If the vote is rigged in some way then we can vote all we want, and we will never win.

This is important. Ohio's government like our federal government has been hijacked by a bunch of crooks like Blackwell, Taft and Noe, that play dirty. Noe and his wife served on the election board in Toledo last year. And I might add were personnely thanked by the Chimp last year for a job well done. Noe also meet with Karl Rove on more than one occasion during last years election, according to the Toledo Blade. And believe it or not Die Bold was involved in some way with Noe as well. Noe is the one that walked of with about 12 million dollars of Ohio Workers Compensation money, that was probably funnled into the GOP!!
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Obsession with the right to vote? Wow...
Aside from that, my role is not to strengthen a party, it is rather to get the truth out. As such, given what went on in Ohio and where it went on, I would suggest those interested in having fair elections look there first.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Also see this. (BTW, there is a DU Election Reform Forum.)
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Got some downloads...

...from OH counties on election night.

Though based on what a few people were saying about them losing in a few backwoods paper ballot areas I don't think this was all fraud... not that that's a reason not to investigate. Heck even when we win we should investigate these days.

Actually it would be kinda funny if the fraudsters believed the over-optimistic polling and went overboard, creating some situations where a door-to-door affidavit collection might bust them -- e.g. if there were < 10 "yes" votes in a precinct, and it just so happens everyone in that precinct who voted yes are in the same clique and there were more than 10 of them.

But if anyone is digging into a particular county I can see what I've got for them.

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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kick
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kick
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Kick
Edited on Thu Nov-10-05 11:52 AM by drm604
This is important. Thank you Lala.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Good ideas!
I'm on the Ohio border, I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, I'll find something worthwhile!

MojoXN
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thank you lala_rawraw!
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rexcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Please stop the nonsense...
I have lived in Warren County for the past 18 years and worked as a poling judge in the November 2004 election. Other than the stupid lock down and the press not allowed to observe the tallying of votes nothing happened. About half personnel at the Warren County Board of elections are Democrats. None of these people would ever let a fraudulent count go through uncontested! I have spoken to several Democrats on the Board and they have told me that there was no fraud concerning the count. I happen to believe them.

All of the people who complain about the election last year concerning Warren county don't live here. May I suggest for those doubters to move to Warren County, Ohio. It won't take you long to figure out that this County is one of the most red of counties in the country. 88% of the voters in the County are repukians. It is an extremely conservative area. There are a few Democrats who are registered repukians because otherwise they don't get to vote in the primaries. Democrats don't run for office in this county. They don't win. There are no elected Democrats in any office in the County.

Please don't flame me for this post. I just get tired of hearing the conspiracies and the nonsense. We Democrats did good to get 30% of the vote last November here in the county. We are trying hard to change things in Warren County. We now have a Warren County Democratic Party which is active. The demographics is slowly changing because we have an excellent public school system (7th academically in the state).

Where the real issues are is Clermont County. There are currently some allegations and and affidavit concerning vote counting fraud in the special election this past August for the Second Congressional seat. Time will tell on this one.
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. You seem to forget that Ohio has touch screen machines without paper
Edited on Fri Nov-11-05 12:10 AM by philb
and one of the most effective ways to monitor that is with a major effort to publicize and support the election hotline system(EIRS)
www.voteprotect.org

EIRS system is also one of the most effective ways to monitor other problems.

Did Ohio make a major effort to support the EIRS system this time?
Or did they learn nothing from the 2004 election?

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