The pundits are all downplaying the Libby indictment, EXCELLENT!

[Walt Starr]

The expectations are being set.

Nothing to see here. Move along. Libby did a bad thing but that's about it and nothing else is going to happen.

EXCELLENT!

All the Republicans are getting on the record supporting Rove, Cheney, Bush, and the entire criminal organization.

EXCELLENT!

I remember the Licenses for Bribes scandal in Illinois. It all started with a single indicment. Four years later, Governor George Ryan was indicted.

Fitzgerald is deliberate. Fitzgerald doesn't really say a lot in press conferences, and prefers not to have press conferences at all.

The bar is being set low. No more indictments are supposed to happen. Republicans are breathing a sigh of relief.

EXCELLENT!

[fooj]

1. I love the way you think, Walt!

Peace.B-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. My read exactly

yep

I got what I wanted for my b'day, a nice shiny gift under the Fitzmas tree, more to follow, it will just take time

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Yep. The Orlando Sentinel's front page didn't have anything on it.

OS is owned by the Chicago Tribune. 'nuff said.

[tsuki]

4. He has done an excellent job, and left a lot of bread crumbs

along the way.

Can you help me?

Under Secretary of State - Bolton or Grossman?

Principal Aide - Hannah or Wurmser?

The old brain has been google since 7 AM and it is mush.

[LunaC]

26. I'm guessing Tenet, Bolton, Cheney and Wurmser

From Fitz's new conference:

"But in early June, Mr. Libby learned about Valerie Wilson and the role she was believed to play in having sent Mr. Wilson on a trip overseas from a senior CIA officer on or around June 11th, from an undersecretary of state on or around June 11th, and from the vice president on or about June 12th.

"It's also clear, as set forth in the indictment, that some time prior to July 8th he also learned it from somebody else working in the Vice President's Office."<[br />


With the exception of Tenet, we've got the PNAC Glee Club in the spotlight! YESSS

[tsuki]

28. No, it is probably Alan Foley, Grossman, Cheney, & Hannah. eom

[LunaC]

29. Elaborate, please.

Why do you think it's Foley, Grossman and Hannah? A little background on your reasoning would be helpful.

[tsuki]

30. Because

Alan Foley - http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/Foley%20Interview.pdf Alan Foley was a senior officer of the CIA. Plame's boss also.

Fleitz was not a senior CIA. Although he was assigned to Bolton's office.

Foley didn't feel comfortable about sharing with Bolton, but he might have faxed to the office of the VP the info.

Speculation.

--
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-CIA-Leak-Who-Knew.html

Names of two of the others were disclosed by a Justice Department official who spoke only on condition of anonymity because the identities have not been publicly released.

Under Secretary of State Marc Grossman also told Libby that Plame worked at the CIA, apparently in response to a request from Libby for details about a former ambassador's trip to Niger to investigate claims that Iraq tried to buy uranium yellowcake. The ex-diplomat was Joseph Wilson, Plame's husband.

</snip>

Believe me. I wanted it to be Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton, but I will bow to the NY Times. They named Marc Grossman, Under Secretary of State For Political Affairs.

It has always been a toss-up on who was the then Principal Deputy, and who was "an aide"

John Hannah, Senior National Security Aide or
David Wurmser, Middle East Advisor.

I think Wurmser is the aide (p. 5), and Hannah is the Principal Deputy. Hannah was assigned to the VP office, and Wurmser was on loan from Bolton's office.

All supposition.

[LunaC]

31. Muchas gracias

Very helpful info and link. Thanks.

[tsuki]

34. No problem. My mind is now mush. If you find

out anything more, let me know. I really think Bolton would make a better "Under Secretary of State" candidate because he is tied to Foley who assign him Fleitz, and was the boss of Wurmser whom he loaned to the VP staff.

[Seansky]

5. i guess the more they talk about it, the more people would become

aware that something is really fishy and might follow the news more closely...

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Or to quote a lady at the store the other day

there is so much corruption that I don't follow it anymore

I countered

THere is so much corruption precisely because we don't pay attention

But the idea that there is corruption is now part of the general psyche... now to get these folks to actually PAY ATTENTION

[Botany]

6. One talking head said .......... (on Fox)

...... "it was a cover up where there is really no crime."

Sure and "Outside of that little problem how did you like the play
Mrs. Lincoln?'

[NNN0LHI]

7. Anyone involved in these crimes is sweating bullets right now n/

[susu369]

12. This photo nails it

[Seansky]

20. i like the "a leak, then a cascade line" and newsweek is in every lobby

of car services and doctors I go to, so people are forced to at least see the cover....

[ClassWarrior]

22. Is that a reference to the "potty note" he wrote at the UN?

:rofl:

NGU.

[susu369]

23. Priceless

:thumbsup:

Off subject: time for Harry Shearer's "Le Show" (don't miss it).

[indie_voter]

9. my thoughts exactly.

Next indictment will hit like a ton o' bricks.

[capi888]

10. The Irony in all this is....

They all know they are in deep s*it...but trying to rally the voters and people to believe that this is ALL THERE IS....Excellent is truly a wise word to explain all the RW yappers on the talk shows...got to be blind not to see the reason....

[Occulus]

11. He's behaving the same as he did in the Illinois investigation

Indict, wait. Indict higher, wait a bit more. And so on.

This does several things: it gives time for the people involved to screw up, it gives time for the people involved to crack, turn, flip, or whatever you want to call it, it slowly turns up the heat on the people at the top of the crime tree, AND it makes it much harder for "them" to do anything about it vs. indicting en masse, thus allowing a single day of pardons for the whole lot.

Six or seven pardons in a single day is forgotten more quickly than six or seven spread out over months, and provides less of an indication that there's a concerted effort to "get people off" for the crimes they've done.

I really, really wish the naysayers posting here today would understand these things.

[Catherine Vincent]

24. Good post!

:thumbsup:

[Justice Is Comin]

33. It keeps the reporters digging too.

Every paper would like to get the next scoop of the next layer of this onion. Worldwide digging, digging, digging. heh heh heh.

[nolabels]

47. I like the naysayers

It gives cover and fools stupid enough to think they will get away with it. MLK eluded to the arc of justice of being a long one.

I think the Indict, wait. Indict higher, wait a bit more. And so on. is more than that. I would ponder the man is being very meticulous so there is no getting off on technicalities. He is basically an artist practicing his craft the best he knows how. It's how he occupies his mind. Smart people who are afraid of getting bored with their job do that kind of thing.

[WiseButAngrySara]

13. Target "A" is Rove, by all who've been asked about it. I think it might

still be Cheney, but there was another infamous 'A' in the Ryan/Illinois case that you referred to. It's not over yet by a long shot or a short shot. Just requires some clearing of the sand in the eyes of Fitz, that was put there with intentional obfuscation, so typical of anything that involves Cheney and/or Rove.

You can't throw that much sand to fool an entire Nation. Not in a 'Democracy' and not in the days of the internet(s).

[ChairmanAgnostic]

51. A = Rove. Another person in the Office of the VP is Darth Cheney.

That much is pretty clear.

[DemoTex]

14. The Bu$hco apologists & pundits are whistling in the graveyard.

They really want to believe what they are spinning, but they don't believe a word of it. They are scared spit-less.

[texpatriot2004]

15. All the better to see them blind sided. nm

[aquart]

16. Republicans are stunningly short sighted.

They are literally incapable of seeing the multiple consequences of an action.

And, if they think BushCo dodged a bullet, the Republican Party can squeeze more money out of them.

[johnaries]

17. The fat lady ain't warming up yet. Hell, she's not even in costume!

This is only the beginning, not the end.

[ClassWarrior]

19. Or to paraphrase George Galloway, it's just the end of the beginning.

NGU.

[Vinca]

18. It's all so Watergate-ish.

The right wing talking heads think (or claim to think) it's a done deal, but I'm betting it's the tip of the iceberg. If not from Fitzy, it'll be Hot Tub Tommy going to stir, Frist in Club Fed and . . . the giant of them all . . . Abramoff.

[Tatiana]

21. Excellent for the right-wingers to think that way. Silly for us.

I can't believe all the doom and gloomers who are depressed over just getting Libby.

The real pResident of this country is Cheney. Our foreign policy, our military agenda is dictated by Cheney. His "hit man" has just been INDICTED! Cheney's "hit man" received the information regarding Plame's status from his BOSS - Dick Cheney.

That's a pretty significant fact to include in these indictments and it was included FOR A REASON.

$hit, after seeing what Fitz has done with Ryan's administration and now Daley's, there is NO DOUBT this man is the real deal. I can't believe people are suggesting he will whitewash this investigation or that he's a Republican or that he visited Bush's lawyer to tell him everything was "cool" and not to worry.

I gave us more credit than that. We're supposed to be the party of intelligence, reason, and clarity of thought. Yet we're just knee-jerk reacting a bunch of damn Freepers.

Very disappointing. Oh well. In about two years or so (just estimating based upon Fitz's usual timeline with these types of prosecutions), this thing should be broken wide open.

[glitch]

52. I hope he moves faster this time. Peoples lives are at stake. nt

[stopbush]

25. Amazing that the Rs think their spin can influence the

wheels of justice.

Fitz operates outside of their spin machine. The courts move along at their pace. The tactics that the RWNM uses to intimidate the press and fool the public have no effect on Fitz's investigation. If they did, we would have seen their influence on Friday. If they had no influence over the past two years, why would anyone think that they could change the direction of the investigation over the last two days?

[Pithy Cherub]

27. Very strategic thinking Democrats would then use all of

these *excuses* for Election 2006. Lying about national security is not a problem for republicans. Do republicans represent true American values, ethics and morals. Rightfully question republican patriotism and regard for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

Then Fitz comes out and nails more * evil-doers. Then the Abramoff Sandal blows up. Then the spy that was in the Office of the Vice president goes to trial. Then DeLay goes on trial. Then Frist shows some accounting *errors*. And on and on and on...

Dems should say why national security in their hands would be safeguarded but above all treasured.

[janx]

32. I think I finally figured this thing out.

Libby lied so badly because his job in that court room was to take Fitz and the grand jury off of following the crime. By getting the reporters to the center of attention, he robbed the process of valuable time, money, and discovery.

That's why Fitz demanded that he do "serious jail time"--see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5223928

This thing is not over by a long shot, no matter how much denial Bush* syncophants are expressing.

Fitzgerald *couldn't* finish his prosecution because Libby's lies took the GJ all over the map for about a year. This was deliberate on Libby's part. And Fitzgerald knows it. Libby was the one who was throwing sand in the umpire's eyes.

[pinto]

35. I agree that this is far from over. n/t

[Delphinus]

36. I heard two people say today,

he is another Oliver North. Set up to take the fall. I was simply dumbfounded.

[Matariki]

37. ha! I heard some fool on npr say

"normal people aren't interested in the indictment" or something like that - wishful thinking from some house or senate republican

[many a good man]

38. One bad apple

Fraternity pranks, that's all.

[leesa]

39. Agree completely. No way Fitz is done with these treasonous bastards.

Let the media whores join the inmate set.

[deadparrot]

40. If/When (hopefully when) Rove's indictment(s) is/are issued,

it'll make the news that much more of a shock.

[triguy46]

41. No big deal, unless you're Scooter...

Whose bitch is he gonna be since he is no longer Cheneys?

[oddtext]

42. Fitz is prosecuting this like ANY criminal case

that's what the whores, morons, dipshits with their kneepads strapped on too tight do not understand. this is not ken starr or any independent counsel. this is a US Attorney working a CASE just like he would ANY case. things will happen in due course.

[goodboy]

43. Don't forget the DU defeatists and Trolls who managed to get 100+ posts!

they're all over the place

[ElectroPrincess]

49. Yeah, they are a smarmy bunch of impostors, aye?

They "talk trash" in the Lounge to get their post count up to 1000+. Then they proceed to wreak havoc in the political boards.

They think that they're so stealth and witty, I think they're pathetic little people who need to get a life.

Think about this = How sad one's life must be to infiltrate a board where you disagree with their beliefs? Instead of facing the "arguments" head on in one's own forum, they must subvert and poison other message boards.

There must be a psychiatric diagnosis and a treatment plan for these poor anti-social individuals. :cry:

We can now understand how they choose to idolize equally smarmy and subversive people like Libby and Rove.

[glitch]

55. Now now, it may be their job. Probably below minimum wage as well

Perhaps they are not true believers but have families to feed.

They probably don't even get a cubicle.

[UDenver20]

44. Logical and Strategic.....

I like it...

[Leopolds Ghost]

45. I can certainly see how that would --- things up for *

In terms of the expectations game, if only folks had played it that way last summer, the vote would not have been close.

My question is simple, legally, how does Fitz get there from here?

Obstruction of what: Fitz says the crime at the heart of the case is still the outing of Plame -- an individual crime on the part of the folks who called the reporters (Rove and Libby). If it's so easy to obfuscate intent in the case of two conspirators by committing obstruction, how can Fitz prove conspiracy if he's unwilling to consider motive (re: justification for war)?

How can you get the two "footsoldiers" to sell each other out when one of them is the mastermind (Rove) and is all too willing to pin it on the other guy, a loyal apparatchik and for all intents a made man, like Ollie North?

[FreedomAngel82]

46. I share that

Things are only going to get worse I believe.

[opihimoimoi]

48. A leader is only strong as his weakest Link....

Bush is Toast....he picked wimps as his team A

[H2O Man]

50. Hey Walt, did you see

Matthews' special Sunday night "Hardball"? I think Chris has been granted permission to go after the vice president.

I like Chris Matthews. I say that, knowing that most DUers do not respect him. And I have to say that I think Chris has done things to earn a lot of that contempt.

In that context, I think it is interesting that Matthews has begun to tell the truth about what he knows about the case. And I think that Russert is going to start being more open about what he knows, too.

They contrast sharply with the 98% of journalists reporting that the White House scored a huge victory Friday.

[Norquist Nemesis]

53. Darnit! How did I miss it?

His Sunday show is always much better than his Hardball propaganda. I checked the listings and didn't see it. :grr:

What was he saying? Better yet, what were the "tell me something I don't know" tidbits?

[H2O Man]

58. I was falling asleep

so I taped it. But there was a disgusting specimen spouting the republican lies, such as, "Maybe Scooter simply forgot because Wilson was so insignificant." And Matthews nailed her. He rubbed her face in it. He said that Cheney and Libby were obsessed with Wilson, and he backed it up strongly. I think that Chris has been given the green light by attorneys to expose Libby. Both his personal attorney, and the (MS)NBC attorneys, who must recognize the need to counter Libby's lies about Russert.

[proud patriot]

54. Hopefully freeps will relax , get nice and comfy

with those expectations

[LiberalMind]

56. The Beginning of all things to end...

Fitz certainly won't stop here. I'm quite sure he will find a way to tie this whole thing to the war in Iraq and then Bu$h will be included in all the indictments... I hope...

[proud patriot]

57. Welcome Underground

I hope you find it to your liking