This feels like the morning after the 2004 election.

[zanne]

I got myself all worked up over this, thinking "we'll see some justice now"! I thought that the system would work, after all. Now, we have an indictment for Libby that's "light", at best. Why did we think these slippery pigs were going to have to answer for anything? That's not the "new" American way.

[Roon]

1. I agree

We lost yet another one.

[Jed Dilligan]

2. Think of it more like 2000

The beginning of a long fight--hopefully we win this time

[kstewart33]

3. Hey, some perspective here!

Libby's indictment is huge, and if the investigation continues, Rove remains on the hot seat. More than anything else, Bush wants this thing to be over. But if continued, it won't be.

Rove's miss is a disappointment, but stay tuned.

[Iris]

81. A commentator on NPR said theses charges should not be considered light.

They carry the potential for up to 25 years in prison and over a million dollar fine.

[Fluffdaddy]

4. I know I'm a pessimists. can't get Nov 2nd, 2004 out of my head either

All Those that was here will remember all the hand shaking and dancing that was going on here noon of nov 2nd 2004 only to have a big let down a few hours later. I'm getting the same feeling now.

[Maddy McCall]

5. The culture of immediate gratification. :eyes:

Really, you have been posting your pessimism all over the board today, and you don't know ANYTHING yet. What did you expect for today?

I've been saying for a week that people were setting unrealistic expectations.

But this is NOTHING like the morning of November 3. Nothing. This time we have nothing to lose. They do.

Why is the impeachment of the VP's Chief of Staff and National Security advisor NOT good enough for you?

[zanne]

6. You don't think the Republicans are VERY happy today?

They won. Again.

[Maddy McCall]

7. Are you SERIOUS?

You have MUCH to learn about politics, grasshopper.

[zanne]

8. If you were right, Teacher, I'd be very happy.

We'll see how they spin this over the weekend.

[emulatorloo]

12. Republican Spin and truth are mutually exclusive. UNDER INVESTIGATION

If Rove is not indicted today, he is "still under investigation"

Repugs can spin that all they want to -- but "still under investigation" means that they are still digging into Rove's complicity, or that Rove has cut a deal and is gonna squeal.

[Leftist_Warrior]

53. And where is the Grand Jury next week? n/t

[goodboy]

109. Fitzgerald had a new grand jury empaneled to investigate "other matters"

Not to "mop up" like you so desperately hope.

Nope, he's broadening the scope of his investigation to include all the lies about the intelligence, the stove-piping of raw intelligence, intimidation/abuse of critics of the admin. abuse of power, treason,

that's what really scares you.

[bigscott]

10. There are those

that would not be happy unless these criminals were marched off to jail at 9:00 am. I am disappointed about Rove not getting indicted (IF IT IS TRUE). But, please remember where we were only a couple years ago - nobody questioned anything thie administration did (except on boards like DU). This is big, maybe not humongously enourmously big, but it is big. and it is not over yet.:patriot: MAYBE, MAYBE some of the 37% with their heads up their asses will begin to realize that * is a criminal and all his born-again ethical administration bullshit is just that....BS:dem:

[Fla Dem]

65. I'd like to agree with you, but with the rethugs 24/7 spin machine

on talk radio, and FAUX news, they have a much better opportunity of getting their message out than we do. That was so evident during the 2004 election. Kerry should have won big time, but he never could get traction because every little mis-cue was played to the hilt on radio and TV, magnified and energized by the RW spin machine. Until there is some parity across the airwaves, the Liberals and Progressives will have no success at exposing this administration's for the criminals they are and winning the hearts and minds of the electorate.

[deadparrot]

20. I call bullshit.

The WH wants to bury this.

If rumors are correct, it's far from buried. Let them spin it as they will. They wanted this over and done with today.

[Marr]

42. Oh no they didn't. They lost HUGE today.

[Leftist_Warrior]

55. Did they? Libby is a huge fish?

So Libby stole the 2000/2004 elections? Libby is the brain behind the Bush conspiracies and criminal actions? Libby is really the guy we wanted out of the White House?

I never knew! Forget what I said, I'm estatic!

[Marr]

69. I'm sorry your deluded fantasies of

administration-wide frogmarches didn't happen, but they were fantasies. That was never a reasonable expectation.

They lost huge by having one of their own indicted, and now set to be tried with Dick Cheney, Ari Fleischer, and several other big administraion officials as witnesses who will testify under oath.

They lost because this indictment further opens the dialogue about how the Bush Administration lied us into war.

They lost because an indictment means this is not over, and will hang over their heads and continue to hurt them, possibly even for the remainder of their term.

[NYC Liberal]

73. Yes, they did - bigtime. And guess what happens at trials?

People are called to testify -- under oath. I have no doubt Cheney, Rove, and others will be called.

Also, the investigation has not finished. They got what they needed to indict Libby, now they are continuing on piece together the evidence they mostly already have to get the goods on the others. Most likely, Fitz'll get them all ratting on each other, thinking they're saving themselves.

[converted_democrat]

77. Libby is/was a NeoCon player, Rove is not...........n/t

[goodboy]

108. Only Rove is bigger than Libby. But that's not why you're saying

what you're saying.

You're trying to minimize the significance of what happened, so as to lower morale here, and plant the seeds of doubt about how and when the investigation will move forward.

I can see right through you.

You know damn well how serious all this is, and you're scared and you're desperate. That's why you're here.

Pathetic.

[MADem]

58. I think they are friken TERRIFIED

Fitzgerald has dropped a shoe, and they are waiting for the other shoe to drop...but look closely, Fitzgerald is a CENTIPEDE, and he has many shoes yet to untie....!

[holboz]

104. This is just the TIP of the iceberg. Fitz has only JUST STARTED.

Let's not forget that Libby is the first casuality because HE LIED TO THE GRAND JURY. We haven't even seen anything related to the allegations that actually started the call for an investigation, but I have no doubt that we will.

I think Fitzgerald is going to be very thorough in this investigation and I don't think he'll stop investigatiing until all the dots are connected, and that will include bringing in the DSM.

[Fluffdaddy]

9. Libby is nothing. you know who we really wanted .

libby only? oh please

no one knew who libby was before 3 weeks ago.


I WANTED ROVE DAMMIT

[bigscott]

11. I wanted Rove too

and was praying we might even get Cheney. How about we wait and see what happens when Fitz makes the announcement.:hide:

[Fluffdaddy]

14. ok agree. lets will wait for announcements.

But it better be today or I will lose my damn mind :p

[converted_democrat]

29. The NYT says this is a ongoing investigation, and that Rove is

still being investigated. We may still get Rove. This isn't bad, don't hand them victories that they don't own.

[zanne]

31. What is it they say about "Justice delayed is justice denied"? nt

[converted_democrat]

37. B.S.....

Justice has not been denied here. The investigation is not over yet, what part of those words are you having trouble comprehending?? You are running thread to thread trying to convince everyone the sky is falling. I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted, but suck it up, it isn't over yet.

edit- grammar

[zanne]

51. Don't you mean "get over it"? nt

[converted_democrat]

78. Grow up.

I am not going to upset myself over your lack of understanding of the legal process. This investigation isn't over, and the sky is not falling. Have you even read the indictment? Have you seen Fitz's past cases, specifically the one where he went after the ex-Governor of Illinois? It started out as one indictment, and it turned into sixty six, before it was all said and done. This is not over yet.

[fearnobush]

44. Think of it as the beginning of the end of the Republican era.

Since 1968, we've been for the most part a country run by Republicans. Nixon's Impeachment just delayed their goals. Clinton's Presidency to them was a fluke, to us, a new beginning, but we ultimately failed. Once Clinton was re-elected, we went to sleep - big time. 2000 election theft slowly woke us, 911 jeered us, Iraq WMD sent us back to the streets. Todays Indictment now proves to us and empowers us to continue and never tire from the work ahead to threw each and every one of these fuckers behind bars. If we remain ever vigilant, in five years time - the a Republican will be a word best used to describe a common crook.

[Orangepeel]

72. just because you didn't know who he was...

doesn't mean that he isn't very powerful. He's Cheney's Rove.

Rove is the political operative. Libby is the policy operative.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. The wheels of justice are turning

and the Bush Cabal is going down. Patience grasshoppers, the gang that couldn't shot straight are done. It's just not going to be an overnight thing. No one is going to trust Benedict Rove after today.

[BuyingThyme]

15. Libby is much, much, much, much, much bigger than Rove.

Rove is a political criminal.

Libby is a war criminal.

[Pacifist Patriot]

17. I consider them both political war criminals.

[Fluffdaddy]

18. But both would make our day......hahahaha

[BuyingThyme]

19. Yeah, Rove has a way of making people hate him.

He will have his day.

[flyarm]

67. libby is pnac'er..rove is not...

libby is the first failure of the pnac'ers...one of the originals...one of the "war machine" boys...getting libby is much bigger than getting rove!!

fly

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. You put into words what I've been feeling and didn't recognize.

I'm sitting here in bed with my laptop at DU and my television flipping between cable news channels. And I try never to watch these shows. My children are playing with hot wheels and I'm hoping it keeps them occupied for awhile because I really need to curl into an emotional ball for a little bit.

Would Fitz have the press conference already so I can work on fact rather than speculation?

The leak that Rove is off...for now...is sickening to me. Just sickening. I know he could still face charges but WTF??? Please let that be misinformation.

[Fluffdaddy]

21. I'm sitting here in bed with my laptop at DU and my tv flipping...........

ME TOO. :hi:

[populistdriven]

23. any changes to DOJ site, my pager goes off in 1 min :D I love tech

[Pacifist Patriot]

30. I'm going to sit beside you then.

[goodboy]

83. ET TU, Pacifist Patriot?

I'm stunned you would buy into the propaganda that somehow this is a victory for the bushies.

[Pacifist Patriot]

101. Oh no, not at all.

I'm extremely optimistic. I have no doubt this is the beginning of the end. It's just the disconnect between hopes, expectations and reality. I really wanted to see Rove go down yesterday but I wasn't really counting on it.

Mostly my mood was do to an extremely annoying week. Crappy in fact. Agonizingly irritating. LOL!

I spent most of Fitzgerald's press conference yesterday trying to convince others at DU that what has happened is a very good thing and a sign of positive advancements to come.

[carolinalady]

22. I am now VERY Happy that Rove is not being indicted today.

At first I was upset, but having slept on it, I am looking at it this way. It has been reported that the g.j. has already been extended once, therefore can nopt be extended again except maybe for a very short time. So Fitz gets a new gj on the premise that KKKarl is still under investigation. But I think he will use the new gj to go deeper into the fake documents that led us to war. My hope anyway.

:popcorn:

[populistdriven]

25. Rove is Very Happy too

and anything that makes Rove happy, is undesireable

[carolinalady]

26. Did you read my whole post? n/t

[deadparrot]

34. Remember smiling Tom DeLay, grinning for his mugshot?

Happiness or unhappines isn't necessarily shown on the surface.

Fitz apparently has a good enough reason for extending the probe that the judge granted his request.

[Fluffdaddy]

27. fake documents are not in Fitz mandate. I feel you are hoping for to much

but it would be nice

[carolinalady]

32. But he was given the right to extend his investigation based on

anything he "stumbles on".

[MidnightWind]

24. But the spin has already begun.

Rove just "forgot" what he told investigators, he didn't lie or obstruct. And Libby? No doubt he'll become the "victim" of an "overzealous" prosectuor. That's what distrubs me so. Even when they are caught red-handed, and charged for it, they manage to control the media and they get the message out that Richard Nixon tried to sell and couldn't, "I am not a crook". Uhm, yeah you are, but the difference between now and then is that in Nixon's era, the corporations didn't own the media. Now they do. If you own the medium, you control the message and that's what's going to happen here. And I'm so depressed about it, I don't really know what to do. But surprised? Not really, not with this bunch of bastards.

[zanne]

28. It was also harder to influence the prosecution then. nt

[sepia_steel]

33. "we've only just begun....

...to liiiiiiiiiiiiiive"


Relax, it ain't over yet. :hug:

[skipos]

35. Does everyone know that Reps might pick up the VA Governorship in 10 days?

We have no influence over "Fitzmas" but we do have influence over this close election.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2186078&mesg_id=2186078

[lwin]

43. And that California is getting ready to whip Arnold's butt in 10 days?

It's good to be a Dem these days! Let's keep our eye on the ball and dispense with some of the gloom and doom.

[Skittles]

36. after two f***ing years

it's disappointing

[marions ghost]

38. I wouldn't put too much faith in the system to work

--especially after we have witnessed the outright in-your-face hijacking of the govt & media by the corporate right. (And do we really have any good reason to trust the judicial system?) The system is messed up. We must accept that it is messed up. At the same time, it's possible that Fitz & Co can still wring some degree of justice out of it. Even if that happens in this case, we can IN NO WAY be confident that the system is functional. Obviously what we call 'the system' is extremely vulnerable to abuse. It's going to be up to the people to demand that it be fixed...whatever the outcome of this particular case. The entrenched power brokers are not going to do that for us. More people are now seeing just exactly how bad things are, and this is a necessary process. The comparison to the election of 2004 is relevant in that we must also come to terms with the fact that our election system has been undermined, and the judicial system will not save us there either. Our judicial system is seriously flawed in that it does not prosecute white collar crimes effectively. The average citizen is just beginning to see how that is hurting us as a nation.

So if we want to see really big changes, this is not a time to be discouraged. We who want something better have a job to do--to reign in the system that gives these slippery pigs their opportunities. We need a system that ASSUMES that abuse will occur and sets up roadblocks. For too long we have relied on old-fashioned trust. We can no longer afford to do that.

[Maddy McCall]

39. Kick...just to demonstrate how the naysayers were wrong.

[bluestateguy]

40. That's a bad comparison

Did we get everything we wanted? No, we did not, but I did not expect to, and I was even thinking that it might be a whitewash.

Some people will complain about anything less than the indictment of the whole senior staff. Well, that's not going to happen, at least not yet.

Be patient. Today's indictment keeps the story alive for at least a few more months.

[KingFlorez]

41. Oh, please stop

The prosecutor has to be careful to have all the evidence, because Rove will find someway to get out of this.

[gardenista]

45. Patience, grasshopper. All will be revealed in time. nt

[Terran]

46. Oh please

If you bothered to read the indictment you'd know it's not over. And these charges against Libby are not "light". He's lookig at 30 years in prison. Stop whining and educate yourself.

[Leftist_Warrior]

49. Did any of you even know Libby's name a year ago?

He's a highly paid fall guy in my opinion. He's taking the fall for Rove and Bush. You're happy with this? I'll eat my shoe if he gets 30 years.

[goodboy]

110. We ALL not only KNEW his name, we KNEW he was in it up to his asshole!

[Batgirl]

113. Is this a serious question

do you really think people on this board hadn't heard of Libby until recently? Does that mean you hadn't heard of him until recently?

Anyone who's bothered to follow politics, even on a fairly casual basis over the past few years, knew who Libby was long before now. I can't imagine why anyone would suggest he was such a minor player as to have little or no name recognition.

[Leftist_Warrior]

47. Fritz is just another republican sock puppet

I get the feeling this guy is the lap dog of the GOP. This "investigation" took 2 years and all we get is a "he lied" case which will get thrown out or plea bargined down to NOTHING? This whole thing smacks of a cover-up. This little media stunt was designed to take the attention off the war or some other criminal act they are sliding under our radar.

I'm sick.

[zanne]

50. I agree, but be aware you'll get flamed

If you keep posting your opinion. The people around here think we're "party poopers".

[Leftist_Warrior]

52. If they're happy with this so far, then good for them - I'm not.

If that gets me flamed, flame on. It doesn't make them right. Sure, I love the glass if half full crowd as much as the next guy, but right now we've "glass half fulled" ourselves into two terms of Bush.

[Balbus]

118. "...we've "glass half fulled" ourselves into two terms of Bush."

I've never heard it put like that before - I like that quote.

[NYCGirl]

54. You may be sick, but you're also WRONG. The first indictment of a sitting

White House officer since Ulysses S. Grant was in office is a VERY BIG DEAL. Personally, I can't wait for the trial!

[Leftist_Warrior]

56. I guess we'll see.

I had no idea Libby was so imporant to us. I thought Rove was the asshole we wanted out of there... and if we got him, his trial could bring down Bush altogether.

You're saying Libby will do this? You are optimistic!

[NYCGirl]

57. Rove is not out of the woods yet. Do you think this stuff happens

overnight? Were you around for Watergate? It takes a LONG time, especially when you have a prosecutor who's as thorough as Fitz (NOT Fritz).

[Leftist_Warrior]

59. Over night, 2 years... same thing

If they had something on Rove, we would have heard about it. Saying "the investigation continues" means 2 more years from now when Bush is gone we MIGHT see a trial.

[NYCGirl]

62. If you thought this was going to knock Bush out of office, you're deluded.

[calimary]

91. Welcome to DU, Leftist_Warrior and bigscott! And DON'T FRET too much!

While I'm somewhat disappointed that rove didn't get his clock cleaned yesterday, we all do need a little perspective here. This is NOT bad news. Not at all. He's NOT out of the woods yet, by ANY means. Laurence O'Donnell put it very nicely last night on Olbermann's show - that rove will get up on Monday morning and go to work in the White House, which will be good news AND bad news for him and his. He's STILL under suspicion. He HASN'T been cleared. They're revving up another judge-approved grand jury now, perhaps mainly for HIM. Fitz clearly feels there's unfinished business, and did not hesitate to underscore that at yesterday's press conference.

Meanwhile, as kkkarl goes back to work with this big blemish on his face, it'll be on everyone's mind. EVERYONE. EVERYONE he works with. EVERYONE he sees in the mail room. EVERYONE he sees in the lunch room. EVERYONE he sees in the cars next to him at the stop light. EVERYONE he sees or comes across or talks to on the phone or passes in traffic or ANYWHERE. There will INVARIABLY be mentions of it in the press, EVERY TIME his name or footage of him crossing the lawn with bush ont he way to the helicopter, or sitting there with his jowls and multiple chins at some conference table or some Cabinet meeting. He's got a cloud hanging over his head. And it hasn't gone away. The questions will linger and the doubts will gnaw. And he'll have to remain on guard at all times regarding what he says to people, and what he says to the prosecutors as they pursue this, and what he says UNDER OATH when he finally is called to testify at libby's trial. He's walking an increasingly fine tightrope, and he's still distracted. Repeat: He. Is. Still. Distracted. He will NOT be able to put it all behind him and focus on the "business" at hand. Not with THIS still breathing down his neck.

Further, it is a HUGE scrape across the pristine, immaculate surface of invulnerability for these people in general. There was a thread here last night speculating on why libby lied in the first place. MANY more DUers than just myself suspect that it's simply because he assumed he was gonna get away with it. AGAIN. That's certainly been the pattern so far, has it not? EVERYTHING, so far, they've gotten away with because they've stayed steadfast in their refusal to produce documents or cough up secret task force work; they've limited investigation into how the White House used the intel that proved bogus, and what the bushies knew or did or said; when bush and cheney HAVE been "visited" by various investigators and panels and whatnots, NEITHER has been under oath; and on and on ad nauseam. Plus, they had the House and the Senate locked up with their cronies in the majorities in both places, and the media securely living in their back pockets. Why would they assume things would go any differently this time? I mean, a winning streak is a winning streak, isn't it? And their unquestioned supremacy will just always stay that way, won't it? And bush doesn't have to run again so he can relax and not sweat it, whatever it is, because he'll just always be fine, won't he? And the whole lot of them will just keep being issued all those nice free passes and everything will stay just ducky, won't it?

The answer to all those questions above is a BIG FAT NO!!!! I think they just got a little TOO lazy, TOO spoiled, and TOO arrogant. They just assumed that, just because they've been able to get away with it all the way along up to this point, that's just the way it's always gonna continue. And they were WRONG.

They don't own this guy Fitzgerald. He's registered with NO political party at all. He's unique in this scenario, a stand-alone and a real anomaly in this day and age - someone who can't be bought or manipulated, and WILL question, and WILL pursue truth - oddly enough because to him truth actually MATTERS - and matters TO HIS JOB. He, unlike everyone else in these circles, is not in it for profit or influence or positioning. He just wants to do a good job. He is a new, unfamiliar kind of animal to libby and the rest of 'em. They don't know what to do about him because he isn't letting himself be rolled by them. And unlike the toadies who don't raise questions or objections or allow themselves to be rolled or bullied or intimidated, he just bulldogs onward, oblivious and immune to whatever they pull. The average shithead or invertebrate in Congress or the media, when these assholes throw sand in their eyes, would just snivel and whine and go away or sit down over there in the corner where they "belong," and shut up and do what they're told, and accept their punishment or their inferior status. Not Fitzgerald. libby and company were expecting him to do that, because that's how EVERYONE has responded to them so far. And he didn't. And now, they're a wreck, because they don't know how to handle this kind of person. He can't be manipulated. He's their worst nightmare.

It's why they're bungling things all over the map these days. They know how to handle events and conditions when they can control them. But when things (or people - like Fitz) happen that are BEYOND this cabal's control, they're literally marooned - out at sea with no sail, no rudder, and no compass, with clouds obscuring any stars by which they could navigate to safety. THAT'S where they are now. And their captain, who might do the steering if he wasn't distracted, IS distracted indeed - by circling sharks, some of whom have his name tattooed on their dorsal fins.

libby was cheney's rove. Or as somebody on TV said last night: "cheney's cheney." A CRITICALLY important player in this game. And, figuratively speaking, the libby indictments and resignation have left cheney with one of his legs cut off. Which, in turn, leaves HIM vulnerable and distracted, too.

This is MOST welcome news, especially since bushie-boy is NOT presently negotiating anything from a position of strength. It was also pointed out last night that there's a difference between facing adversity when your poll numbers are up in the high 50's or even 60's, versus when you're in that same position with your numbers in the high 30's. VERY different indeed.

[Leftist_Warrior]

96. Thanks for the warm welcome and the comments

I can see your point quite clearly. Thanks for taking the time to type all of that. :)

[goodboy]

100. Don't waste your breath..he's lying and trying to distract you, and

try to lower morale in the context of "only one indictment"

"Rove is all that matters"

They won't be here much longer;

[Balbus]

119. Or maybe he's posting his opinion on a discussion board..

*gasp* what a concept, eh?

[MADem]

60. If Cheney is the CLOSET PRESIDENT, Scooter is his VP

Bush is just the public face, the front man, and Rove is the clown who makes the public face of the White House look good. The IMAGE guy, the PR flack, the domestic political hardballer.

Cheney, Scooter and the WHIGs did all the "let's go to war" work. They ARE the big fish.

Monkey just nodded approval between gulps of Jim Beam and handfuls of pretzels.

[Marr]

71. Oh, well if you have a "feeling", it must be true then.

Do you think a whitewash would take 2 years? The whole point of a whitewash is to minimize damage.

[Leftist_Warrior]

76. No, you're right - this is a GREAT victory! I was deluded. n/t

[goodboy]

84. You are sick, and you have no fucking clue what you're talking about

you have no facts to back up your rediculous assertion.

you have no understanding of this investigation, past, present, or future.

[Leftist_Warrior]

88. Since you're clued in, care to share with the unwashed masses

what's going to happen?

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. No. This was the worst-case scenario for Republicans

The indictment is very clear about the underlying crime.

It says:
1) plame's identity was classified information
2) Libby (and the others involved) signed non-disclosure agreements
3) Libby provided this classified information to people without the apropriate clearances.

John Dean makes a compelling case that trying to indict about the leak *directly* would have run into a "national security" stonewall.

In fact, maybe it did.

[New Earth]

48. i'm going to keep my mouth shut

about what i'm keeping my mouth shut about.

it's a small a victory that can lead to bigger ones, i don't understand the gloom and doom going around the past 2 days.

[MADem]

61. Some people

do not believe that anything can ever go well. Still others demand immediate gratification, a terrible swift sword to smite the bad guys. Still others are just troublemakers, who delight in causing angst, and then, there are those with an agenda that is not in keeping with the ideals we hold dear, who have an interest in upsetting the morale of progressives.

That's their problem, IMO. I think this indictment is the first step in a long road. And in the meantime, the WH is hamstrung--the scruitiny will continue to be intense, and no one will believe them, because they have a record of lying to and about the press.

It's like Nixon all over again--fortress mentality.

[zanne]

64. We ALL have the right to an opinion. Even "some people".

It's easy to talk like the majority; there's no courage there. Stating what you really believe, even when you get flamed for your efforts, is what takes real courage. It's nice to be "liked". Not so easy to speak your mind.

[MADem]

66. I'm not arguing with that at all

But I do not think I am the only who thinks that the "sky is falling, doom, gloom, go home, forget it, we are toast" crowd are a bunch of naysaying assholes who throw down that opinion like a steaming turd on a clean white carpet and back it up with, WHAT??? NOTHING. Enough with the breast beating and crying. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

If all were done, and there was nothing left to pursue, we would have seen TV footage of FITZ arriving at O'Hare with his suitbag and rolling Samsonite, grabbing a cab to go home to his apartment.

But he is still in DC, and does not look like he will be sleeping in his own bed on a regular basis anytime soon.

[goodboy]

86. Stop with the, "not easy to be in the majority" BS It's DISINGENUOUS!

and totally false. That defense is used when someone knows they're full of shit. We do have the right to call you on your bullshit.

Doesn't mean we don't like you...


Quite the contrary...you've been brainwashed. You clearly do not have even a basic understanding about the case as a whole, because you're regurgitating GOP talking points whether you know it or not.


Stop playing the victim. If you took the time to educate yourself, you wouldn't look so silly.

[Leftist_Warrior]

89. Make your predictions now then.

Get of your high horse, stop talking down to everyone, and but your money where your mouth is.

Tell us, how is this going to play out?

We be 2 stoopid 2 be figurin it out 4 we selves. Sorry 4 bein so stoopid.

[goodboy]

105. This isn't about me or "my predictions" You're making false statements

lying, and trying to cover up the truth about who you are and why you're here.


Scooter? Is that you?

[zanne]

107. Stop hinting that we're freepers!

If that isn't an emotional response, I don't know what it. What do we have to do, show you our official Pollyana cards? It's against DU rules to suggest that someone else is a freeper because their opinion doesn't lock in step with yours. I've been a liberal Democratic activist since the age of 12, so don't insult me because you think you're a superior intellect.

[goodboy]

111. I did no such thing. So how come you ran to the rescue? I wasn't talking

to you?

[FearofFutility]

63. It is a bit of a let down that Fitz

didn't indict the whole damn administration yesterday. I wanted a much bigger "bang" too. It is clear, however, that this isn't over, and the house of cards is starting to fall. Remember, drip, drip, drip.....

[MaineDem]

68. It's so VERY different

I'm sorry you feel this way.

Please be patient.

Regardless of what else happens this has cast suspicion on Cheney and the entire White House. (We already had suspicions, of course, but now the rest of the country is being told.)

The morning after the election did mean the end of the world as we envisioned it. Today marks a bright spot in that bleak world.

[KitchenWitch]

70. Remember one drop of water causes counless ripples in a pond

This is the first drop of water.

Fitzgerald is not done! Not by a long shot.

[coeur_de_lion]

74. I disagree -- Lawrence O'Donnell

summarized it well on the Keith Olbermann show. He said that when the public trial starts we are going to see VP Cheney, KKK Rove, and other * admin officials taking the stand. That is devastating to the * presidency.

It may not be the outcome we had all hoped for. Rove "escaped indictment by a whisker." He did escape. But he better toe Fitzgerald's line from here on out and testify truthfully, or he can expect the same fate as Libby.

Trials starts in a few months. We can get out the popcorn then. For now we will just have to be satisfied that the process is beginning.

Take heart, have faith. It's all going to come out.

[Vidar]

75. Exactly right. I hung on to every scrap of voter fraud, exposed,

and there were many, including the GAO report of last week. But it all comes to nothing.

[goodboy]

79. Zanne, you need the Jaws of Life to get your foot out of your mouth:

For the first time in over 100 years a sitting Administration official was indicted for crimes he committed.

If that's not justice, I don't know what is.

Just because every Administration official wasn't indicted at the same time doesn't mean the "system didn't work"

You do not understand the system enough to make an embarassing statement like that.

Perjury, Obstruction, and False Statements are "light at best"

Clearly you have sucked up the RW talking points like a freakin' sponge.

If we all were defeatist like you, they WOULD get away with everything, and Scooter would be out golfing right now.

[Leftist_Warrior]

90. That sounds really-really powerful

But in 4 months no one will give a crap, it won't be in the news and no one will even remember the story. It's nothing unless they get Rove.

[goodboy]

99. You're wrong again. That's what you people said at the start of

this investigation.

You said nothing would come of it.

You said nobody would care.

Rove is irrelevant and you know it.

It is your pathetic attempt to distract us.

Leftist_warrior implies you're a leftist and a warrior...

But it's exactly the opposite. Nice try though.


Enjoy your stay.

[Loge23]

80. freeps and us: both disappointed and optimistic

We have that in common with the freeps. But we willl prevail this time. Truth will prevail.

[MoonRiver]

82. 30 years is "light".? Rove is still on the hook.

I'm happy that justice is FINALLY being done.

[pdxmom]

87. I would certainly have liked to see Rove, et al, go down, but

I'm certainly not disappointed. Especially listening to all the pundits this morning. Bushco is getting hammered. Even his own party is saying he needs to do housecleaning around him. And we all know he won't. He's too insulated and stubborn. The general public will see this.

They've lost all credibility. Libby is facing 30 years in prison, the loss of his law license, and he's become a pariah to his party. I see a domino effect coming, one way or another.

[lynne]

92. Now I know I'm not the only one who feels that way -

- I keep thinking "Is this all we get for 2+ years of investigation and probably a Gazillion dollars???"

Hell, the actual question that prompted the entire investigation hasn't even been answered. WHO outed Plame? Let's face it . . . if they knew, they would have indicted already. Looks to me like they're trying to find their asses while telling us that they're sure it's right behind them . . wait just wait a bit longer . . . Baloney!

[NYCGirl]

102. "A Gazillion dollars"?

How much do you think this cost in comparison to the Starr investigation?

[lynne]

115. Don't know and don't care -

- because any amount is too damn much if they can't even answer the question that was the entire point of the investigation after 2+ years.

[ultraist]

93. The morning after the 04 GE?

You have got to be fucking kidding! That was a seriously dark and depressing time with no hope in sight.

We may not have gotten 22 indictments, but at least we have a light at the end of the tunnel now. This has seriously damaged the WH AND the Repub party. It is most definitely a VICTORY!

Let the process continue and stop spreading RW talking points!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

106. seriously.

if I went thru the morning after the 04 GE again i'd probably have a heart attack and im not bullshitting.

How somebody can compare this morning with 04 GE is beyond me.

[Blue_Roses]

94. Oh, good grief

:eyes: No way do I feel the same way today as I did the day after the election. I didn't want to get out of bed the day after the election. Not only that I felt that there was little or no hope. Today and that day are like--night and day.

Even though I think the Congress needs to pursue an investigation as well, these charges are great.

It is a great day!

[JohnnyCougar]

95. You're definitely in the minority, then.

I took a poll yesterday...7 out of 10 DUers are satisfied with the indictment of Libby. If you are sad about this, maybe you should rethink your expectations.

And the investigation isn't even over yet.

[H2O Man]

97. You are silly. n/t

[Gregorian]

98. Go to Daily Kos. Read the posts on this subject.

It's not as simple as one would think.

http://www.dailykos.com/

[Ladyhawk]

103. I'm usually a pessimist, but I don't feel at all upset.

:shrug:

I think there's some hope that this is the beginning of the end of the neocons.

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

112. At least they are squirming

The indictment can't be a good thing for Bush.

Just think of Cheney having to testify if this actually goes to trial. He'll have another heart attack right there.

[DearAbby]

114. Ah Keerist guys...this is the gift that keeps on giving!

you all or nothing guys with the doom and gloom dont realize this is just the begining...this gift will keep on giving and giving. I am delighted that there was this indictment, dont get me wrong, I would have loved to see it all at once, who wouldn't have?

But this way its going to unfold and all in due time. Its going to be the white hot topic of the year...possibly all the way to the mid terms...and we all know what happened when 'mericans were tired of the coruption of the 70s.

This has tainted the white house. It is the gift that will keep on giving.

Actually it is a sad day for Americans, that it had gone this far. It will take generations to undue the damage this administration has caused. But it's the begining, one step at a time.

[Mr_Spock]

116. Not our fault you had unrealistic expectations...

Please get ahold of your emotions - for the sake of the rest of us at DU.

[Marie26]

117. Don't lose hope!

Fitzgerald is still investigating, still has a grand jury, and still has LOTS of other evidence he hasn't used yet. He could be throwing the book at Libby cause he realized that Libby is the only one who can truly reveal what was going on in Cheney's office. If Libby pleads or flips, Fitzgerald will have the info he needs to bring more charges. And if Rove hasn't been indicted yet, he must be offering up info to Fitzgerald. I have faith in Fitzgerald, and still hope he can uncover the entire corrupt operation.

[leftist.]

120. I agree, it *does* feel like another lost opportunity.

Since this is OUR place to talk amongst friends, and OUR place to say things that maybe we haven't thought out, and OUR place to work out our own thoughts before heading out into the world - I don't mind being amongst the many that are disappointed with Friday's results. Especially upon learning that the "bulk of the work in this investigation is complete".

I like Fitzgerald, I don't even care what his politics are ... I mean, it was just so SO refreshing on Friday to hear someone speak to the nation and to the world and actually MAKE FUCKING SENSE and not have some gimped up expression on his face like * always does ... but even saying all of that I was still disappointed. AND THATS OKAY. It doesn't make me a naysayer, or a doom-and-gloomer, or whatever phrases people are using. We'll wait, we'll watch, and hell if some of us were wrong thats NOT a bad thing. I, like so many others, am anticipating "the end" to see what crimes (if any) were committed and what the results will be but YES Friday to me WAS disappointing :(

Peace.