Farrakhan is a whack job just like Pat Robertson

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Why does anyone dispute something so obvious

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

1. oh, grow up

[itzamirakul]

2. Yawn.....this point of view

has been done to death.......

Come up with something new

[IntravenousDemilo]

110. Well...

http://fadetoblack/farrakhan

Start on that page and have fun.

[mzmolly]

3. Farrakhan is a racist whack job at that.

He removes credibility from all that he associates with.

[CatWoman]

5. OFF WITH HIS DICK!!!!

HE CAN NOT BE ALLOWED TO PROCREATE!!!! :eyes:

[mzmolly]

8. "Hitler was a very great man." ~ Louis Farrakhan

The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. ~ Farrakhan quote

I'm not suggesting we stop him from pro-creating, I do suggest that we not elevate racists to hero status, however.

[CatWoman]

9. off with Hitler's dick as well.

[mzmolly]

11. Thankfully Hitler did not pro-create.

;) Though, perhaps his children would have rebelled against him if he had? One never knows ...

[CatWoman]

15. are we so sure about that?

I mean, Farrakhan could easily be his love child.

Or a descendent of

[dsc]

16. actually I thought he couldn't procreate

[CatWoman]

17. the History Channel ran a show about his relatives Friday

(I think)

there were lots of them who "disappeared" after the war.

They never made any mention of that.

Besides, Clinton's dick has shown us just how ingenious evil is against the odds, no?

[trogdor]

117. They said the youngest Hitler was 50 years old.

They've lost interest in continuing the family line altogether.

[expatriot]

119. I heard Hitler presented Prescott Bush with a sperm sample...

Prescott said that while he would have his son George impregnate his wife with the sample once he got married..

[IntravenousDemilo]

111. Already been done...

Whistle while you work.
Hitler is a jerk.
Mussolini bit his weenie --
Now it doesn't work.

[donheld]

4. Flamebait

:spank:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. Is "Pat Robertson is a whack job" flame bait?

then neither is Farrakhan is a whack job. He's a nut.

[Ladyhawk]

49. Two nuts in a shell, Farrakhan and Robertson.

Why is that so hard to see?

[okieinpain]

87. yes, unfortunately he is.

[SammyBlue]

91. Why? Because Farrakhan is a racist, this is flamebait?

Take it as it is. The SOB is a racist, a sexist and a bigot who hides behind Islam. HE is no different than the other idiot racists, sexists and bigots who use their religion as a guise.

He is a black Jerry Falwell, sans the southern accent and the fat.

[donheld]

92. When's the last time you listened to the man speak?

[SammyBlue]

96. Being told Jews financed the slave trade with no proof is all I need to

hear. He panders and makes scapegoats too. I'd rather listen to Bill Cosby. At least he comes out and says reality.

You want to defend a racist, do so, but not at my expense. This man is a bigot and if I get my messages deleted for saying so, so be it. Fuck him and everyone like him.

C. Vernon Mason, Alton Maddox, Leonard Jefferis, Pat Robertson, Donald Wildmon, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, etc.

Screw all these theological bigoted ideologues. Everyone on of them.

[donheld]

97. Then on this you speak out of ignorance

It's really easy to make assumptions about people you pay no attention to. If you'd have listened to him yesterday for example I'll be you'd have loved it.

[SammyBlue]

98. You can blindly follow your bigoted hero

After listening to him for ten years, I don't care if he's changed his tune. I'm done with him and his race-baiting, jew-hating persona.

Whether he's changed or not is irrelevant to me because being blamed for slavery for years by him was enough to turn my stomach and make me loathe him.

He is no different than Robertson.

[donheld]

106. .

:banghead: :boring:

Go listen to Tori Amos' "Sweet The Sting"

[0007]

109. Then why all the yapping?

Is this the way closed minds work?

[IntravenousDemilo]

112. What are his thoughts on gay people?

Does he have anything on record? I mean, other than his calypso songs?

[Behind the Aegis]

127. link

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_homosexuals.asp

[IntravenousDemilo]

135. Thanks for the link. I have read his words, and...

the man is a homophobic cunt.

[entanglement]

7. Then why is Farrakhan considered leader of a hate group

while Pat Robertson enjoys 'mainstream' respectability?

Hint: The answer includes the words 'white' and 'black'

[donheld]

13. Exactly right. I'm sure the OP didn't listen to

Anything the Minister had to say yesterday. He/she is scared he might have liked it.

[CatWoman]

14. said it once and will say it again

a lot of the Farrakhan haters don't know jack shit.

[mzmolly]

18. "such a man is worthy of death." Farrakhan said this about Malcom X

shortly before he was assassinated.

The family of Malcom X has stated publicly that they believe Mr. Farrakhan was involved in the assassination.

I'd say a lot of Farrakhan "admirers" have a few things to learn as well?

:shrug:
Peace

[CatWoman]

19. you know, 20 years ago I had a crush on Al Haig

I've come a long way, Baby.

People change. Views evolve.

Even Malcom X evolved.

Deal with it.

[mzmolly]

20. Too bad Malcom isn't here to "evolve" along with the rest of us.

And, it's also a shame that Farrakhan hasn't evolved as much as you have in the past 20 years. *tsk tsk

[CatWoman]

21. on which evidence can you base this?

And, it's also a shame that Farrakhan hasn't evolved as much as you have in the past 20 years.


I have been living here over 10 years, and regularly catch Farrahkan on local access cable.

I've never heard him expouse hate. towards anyone. or anything.

You should have heard some of the thing out of Malcom's mouth before his conversion.

Watch Spike Lee's, "X"

[mzmolly]

22. I've seen Spike Lee's film.

Regarding "evolution," Farrakhan was angry when MX evolved. That's part of the reason Farrakhan advocated for his death.

If you've never heard Farrakhan espouse hate - you may want to google some of his quotes? He's been ill over the recent past, so he's slowed down a bit to my understanding.

Also, I've yet to read/hear about any awakening on his part? If you have any information in which he speaks about his so called evolution - I'd be interested.

Thanks

[CatWoman]

23. I'm aware of the quotes

seems they took place some time ago.

Same with my fascination with Al Haig.

Bottom line -- I deal with the here and now.

And Farrakhan says nothing but the truth about the here and now.

Peace.

[mzmolly]

24. Understood.

I stopped watching him about the time you started. ;)

Peace

[Tomee450]

30. So how do you claim

to know so much about him if you have not listened to him recently. I think your position smacks of arrogance. It seems some people really do think black people are not intelligent. How else to explain your dismissal of the opinion of all of those prominent, well respected African Americans who appeared with Farrakhan and supported the march. It seems that you and others have no respect for those individuals powers of discernment. If they had believed Farrakhan to be the monster you portray, they certainly would never have appeared with him.

[mzmolly]

44. I don't base my beliefs about people based on what some believe.

I tend to be an independent thinker.

FYI ~ Malcom X's daughter was arrested for trying to avenge the death of her father by hiring a hit on Farrakhan. At the time she resided in the State I'm from, and while she was wrong to do what she did, I have great sympathy for her.

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/95/950117Arc5411.html

"Malcolm X recruited Louis Farrakhan into the Nation of Islam in the 1950s, Carson said, and Farrakhan, then known as Louis X, was a protégé of Malcolm's until Malcolm broke with Muhammad. In the Muslim newspaper, Muhammad Speaks, Farrakhan condemned Malcolm for his efforts to establish ties with civil rights groups. He wrote also that "the die is set, and Malcolm shall not escape, especially after such evil foolish talk about his benefactor, Elijah Muhammad. Such a man as Malcolm is worthy of death."

"I think Malcolm himself knew that his former colleagues wanted to see him dead," Carson said. "The question is not whether they wanted to see him dead, but whether they actually ordered the assassination. Within the context of the Nation of Islam, there was no need to do it. If you label somebody as an enemy of your religion, then the strongest believers are going to believe that is an invitation to take matters into their own hands. It didn't have to come down as an order. Farrakhan would not have had to order the assassination. All he had to do was identify Malcolm as a traitor."

The Nation of Islam no longer totally rejects political involvement, he said, but the group is far from the political direction of Malcolm's final year. "When you strip away anti-white invective, what you really have from Farrakhan today is just an updating of Booker T. Washington. There is nothing that would not fit in with the Republican Party platform. It¹s pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps. He's considered a militant, because he says things that become controversial, but his program is anything but radical."

This piece was written by the notable Clayborne Carlson:



Professor of American History & Director of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Papers Project.

During his undergraduate years at UCLA, Dr. Carson was a participant in and observer of African-American political movements. Since receiving his doctorate from UCLA in 1975, he has taught at Stanford University, where he is now professor of history and director of the King Papers Project. Dr. Carson has also been a visiting professor at American University, the University of California, Berkeley, and Emory University as well as a Fellow at the Center for the Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences at Stanford.


I know plenty of Blacks who don't care for Farrakhan, I guess they're uninformed racists?

[Tomee450]

46. I live in the black community

and I never hear any African Americans discussing what Farrakhan said or did years ago. It seems only certain whites are obsessed with his past. Most black people like Farrakhan's message of black unity, self-reliance. They agree with his advise to get a good education, stop having babies at a young age, avoid drug use and criminal behavior, develop businesses. That is a positive message to our community. You may hear a few negative comments about Farrakhan now and then but most blacks are not obsessed with his past as some here. That was clearly obvious by the large crowd he was able to bring together yesterday and the number of prominent blacks willing to appear with him. You keep mentioning Malcoln X's death. Funny, when I hear people talking about the nOI or Farrakhan, that subject is never brought up.

[mzmolly]

51. I grew up in the "black community" but I don't profess to speak for

anyone but myself.

Also, how can you claim to speak for "most blacks?" Do you have some poll numbers on Mr. Farrakhan that I'm not aware of? I find this tome insulting frankly.

Lastly, the march had many prominent people take part, it was not the sole effort of Louis Farrakhan.

[Tomee450]

59. I know a lot

more about the black community than you do and know for certain that most blacks do not share your views. Even those who are not fond of Farrakhan support his message. All you have to do is visit some of the public places blacks frequent and listen to the discussions and you will discover this to be true. Most blacks in this country are not obsessed at you appear to be about something that happened years ago. If you listen to black urban radio, you are not hearing the kind of hatred that is being shown here. Black people are concerned with the here and now, not about something that happened years ago. There is no reason for any black person to reject Farrakhan positive message and they aren't rejecting it. As I said, some people have no respect for the intelligence of black people. Those weren't stupid people at that march, but intelligent persons who all stood with Farrakhan and supported what he was attempting to do.

[mzmolly]

62. "I know a lot more about the black community than you do."

That statement is akin to "nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. :eyes: What a ridiculous assertion. Further, your continued suggestion that blacks "think alike" is a racist one.

I doubt your sincerity frankly.

[H2O Man]

60. One might note

that you are participating in yet another thread with just that discussion. It's mentioned in most books about Malcolm. Efforts to pretend it isn't of any significance seems weak.

On the other hand, people do change. And no matter if one like Louis as an individual or not, a significant number of progressive people do find him worth listening to. It is possible to noy like Louis as an individual, but to agree with many of the things he said yesterday.

[Tomee450]

126. Please don't preach to me.

I am black, am a member of many black organizations, participate in the black community, have friends and relatives all over this country. It is rare that the subject of the death of Malcolm X is brought up when Louis Farrakhan and the nOI is being discussed. What is often mentioned is the fact that the NOI has been successful in keeping young men from going back to prison and has helped many in their efforts to kick drug abuse. African Americans appreciate Farrakhan positive message, even those who have not always agreed with him. I don't encounter black people who hold grudges the way some people do here. We recognize that people can change. If African Americans were like some people, none would ever have voted for Senator Byrd or George Wallace.

[H2O Man]

129. You seem defensive.

I simply pointed out one of the errors in what you are saying. And, despite what you find in what you believe is a significant social circle, that error stands.

[mzmolly]

134. "We recognize that people can change."

Who's "WE?" Are you insinuating that you are the sole voice of blacks in America? Further, your insinuation that "white people don't forgive" is a racist one.

1. Sharpton had rhetoric in the past that was questionable and even racist. I think he's also an egomaniac, but he realizes that it's important to support Democrats for progressive reasons. Thus, he has been "forgiven" by and large. I cheer his one liners, but I always keep my eyes open for his self serving nature.

2. Regardless of your skin color, you do not speak for all black people any more than I speak for all Irish people. I don't call my black brother in law and ask him the opinion of "blacks" as that would be ignorant.

3. My guess is the MAJORITY of people here have "forgiven" Farrakhan or taken his ego maniacal bait - depending on how you view it, so please spare us/me your racist persecution complex. Racists don't frequent here. At DU, you have thoughtful people who have differing opinions but you won't find a slue of racists.

[SammyBlue]

95. Pardon, I haven't forgiven Jesse Jackson for his "New York is Hymietown"

comment.

You're right, we don't forget.

"Never Again" will Jews tolerate anti-semitism. Tell that to 6 million of us who had Farrakhan's views on Jews foisted upon them (including 78 members of my family). No, Farrakhan is as much a racist anti-semite as Hitler was, except Farrakhan wraps it in religion and Hitler wrapped in ideology.

I absolutely hate that man, his "Nation of Islam," his views, his speeches, his attitude and the fact the might have been one of the triggermen who killed Malcolm X.

Fuck Louis Farrakhan.

[oasis]

86. Both "Poor Richard's Almanac" and "Muhammad Speaks" are out of

circulation. Got any recent quotes? :shrug:

Jesse Jackson, Sheila Jackson Lee, Rev. Al Sharpton and other members of the Democratic party believe Minister Farrakan has cleaned up his act.

That's good enough for this Democrat.

[mzmolly]

121. I'd ask you for the quotes where he renounces his previous behavior.

:hi:

[goclark]

66. Cat Woman you are amazing, blessings

Did I hit the wrong website? Is this Freeper Land?

The more the Rev.is bashed by Whites the more Blacks will appreciate him. Since we know that a huge group of Republicans hate us and seemingly even our so called "friends" think they should pick our leaders, we will cut through the BS and decide for ourselves.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Farrakan did more yesterday to be supportive of the Liberal Democrats, and letting the World know what the Bush Crime Family has done to this country than ANY politician, Black or White,including John Kerry in the last election.

Name the White Leader,or Black Leader, that with 800,000 + people standing before him,in front of the WH, had the nerve to tell GWB that he needs to be IMPEACHED!

Name the politician that could get CSPAN to wait 5 + hours for him to come to the microphone, with the tape rolling? And then replay it later that evening.

ANSWER could not even get CSPAN to show them marching.

John Kerry drew HUGE crowds and DIEBOLD laughed in our faces and we didn't even put up a fight against the FRAUD vote!

Everyone of our so called leaders dances around the issue and Farrakan truly put it on the table,"IMPEACH GWB! IMPEACH HIM AMERICA!"

He was not begging anyone to love him,praise him, join his movement, pay for the March accept donating if they wanted to....he spoke TRUTH to POWER yesterday.

He willingly shared the stage with people of all faiths,all colors,he was not even hogging the time slot.

He let everyone join in the day.


Now if there are those that think there is someone that can do better, bring that person on!

Until then, all these haters of Farrakan can continue to be the Lap Dogs for GWB while we learn from Ferrakan that OUR approach to the political scene is like playing "Mother May I" in nursery school.

Wimps I tell you, wimps.

CATWOMAN I really admire you!

[CatWoman]

128. *bows*

thanks, GC :hi:

I keep punishing myself by returning to this thread.

Freeperville, indeed.

[Tomee450]

27. How can you hear anything

Farrakhan has to say if your mind is as closed as it appears to be.

[mzmolly]

28. LOL - I guess he lost me at the Hitler worship, the white devil reference

and with the assertion that he was in a space ship ...

Call me crazy.

[CatWoman]

35. Malcom X used to call whites white devils, too

[mzmolly]

42. Yes he did, and when he moved away from that mentality, Farrakhan called

for his death.

I am aware that Malcom X began his notable journey promoting that which he later denounced.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

84. It is true...

Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man (See Hitler's attitude toward Blacks) but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the first world war. Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance. Now I'm not proud of Hitler's evil toward Jewish people, but that's a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing.

*******

From this quote you supplied you can see how he sees the 'wonderful' things Hitler did for Germany. Anyone who knows the history behind the rise of Hitler will tell you that he made Germeny what it was on the backs of Jews, fear-mongering and manipulation of the government. He used preemptive war, propaganda and dirty tricks.

Germany wasn't a great fighting machine because of Hitler. It was because Germany had some of the best and most intelligent generals in the world. They believed in Germany more than they did Hitler. Their duty to country was what drove them. Germany's military is what made them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. Not Hitler.

LF needs to read a few history books.

[donheld]

90. That's not worship that's fact

One can be great for evil or great for good. Hitler was a very powerful man. That doesn't mean Louis worships him. It means he acknowledges his accomplishments. He also acknowledges his evil.


He's not the only one who needs to read history books.

[SammyBlue]

99. FLAMEBAIT!!!!

Wow. . .Hitler's accomplishments??? like starting a war that killed 55 million people, the extermination of 6 million Jews??? He acknowledges Hitler's accomplishments???

LF: "Yeah, Hitler did some marginally bad things, but look at the good he did"???

Are you crazy or just blinded???

THIS IS FLAMEBAIT!!!

:nuke:

[donheld]

105. Farrakhan never said that his bad things were marginal.

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

anyway i'm going to bed. I leave you to argue elsewhere.

[cynatnite]

115. Okay, it didn't mean he worshipped Hitler....

he still needs to read some history books.

:eyes:

[IntravenousDemilo]

113. I'm surprised, but I agree with you.

He wasn't a good man, but you don't have to be "good" to be "great". Bush is also a great man in the historical sense, even if he is a lying, conniving, murderous, purulent, pinheaded, soulless, evil shit-for-brains.

History is chockablock with "great" men and women, and by now we should have had our fill of them. What the world needs is more "good" people.

[Tomee450]

26. Oh for crying out loud.

Maybe black people should start behaving just like some of the haters here. Maybe we should never forget any racist comment by a white person no matter how long ago it was uttered. Maybe the blacks of West Virgina should not vote for Robert Byrd, after all, he was a member of the KKK. Maybe African Americans are just too forgiving. Perhaps it's time for a change.

[mzmolly]

29. Mr. Byrd has renounced his former statments. Can you show me where

Farrakhan has done so?

Additionally, Malcom X's family isn't as forgiving as you are - apparently?

[Tomee450]

32. Oh please

I listen to Farrakhan on television a lot and see nothing of the man you portray. It's too bad that you cannot understand that people change. But as I said before, maybe blacks should start believing that white racists never change and even if they claim they are no longer racist perhaps they should not be believed. Farrakhan was very inclusive yesterday yet he is still being hammered. It doesn't matter what he says, it will always be the same old hateful refrain directed against him. I have not heard him express any anti-semitism or racial hatred on any of the television programs I've watched over the past few years.

[CatWoman]

37. Take George Wallace for example.

A lot of Blacks overwhelming forgave him. In his state, anyway.

The evil bastard.

[Tomee450]

45. Right

Farrakhan was nothing like Wallace whose racism might have been partly responsible for the deaths of those young girls in Birmingham. If black people were like some here, they would never have forgiven Wallace. He really did some horrible things.

[mzmolly]

40. Oh please. You should do a bit of research on the man you apparently

don't know, yet defend here?

[Tomee450]

47. I think you should take your

own advice because clearly you seem not to know what Farrakhan is about these days.

[mzmolly]

52. I know that he's about his ego.

That's all I need to know.

However, if you can show me a quote were he does anything but backpeddle for his previous remarks - I'd be glad to take that into consideration.

[Tomee450]

61. Nothing can enter a

closed mind.

[mzmolly]

64. Cheers.

:hi:

[SammyBlue]

100. One "inclusive" speech doesn't change the fact that he is a racist

and will jump back to his old self again, blaming Jews for the slave trade and other mindless rants that get too much media time.

People can change, but one speech isn't enough. If he sincerely apologizes for his years of judeophobia and race baiting, maybe forgiveness will come. But I doubt that will happen!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

104. BINGO!!!!

We have a winner!

I am shocked at some of the things I am seeing here. If he were to renounce his hate of Jews and gays....maybe I could see him in a more positive light. Actually, it would have to be more than a "renunciation," it would have to be followed by actions.

Why is a bigot of any stripe/color/religion given a free pass?! Is this what "liberal" has come to mean? Pat Buchanan was against the war, should we now support him?!

[QC]

31. Nobody in Virginia votes for Robert Byrd.

Not a single person. Ever.

[CatWoman]

34. I'm quite sure he's aware that Robert Byrd's state is West Virginia

perhaps a typo? Oversight? Unintended omission? Or are you trying to make him look stupid?

Fun Fact: West Virginia split from Virginia in 1863. That nasty seceding business.

[Tomee450]

38. Unfortunately,

some people WILL resort to pettiness. I think the poster disagrees with my assessment of Farrakhan and that was his way of getting back at me.

[QC]

41. Actually, the poster disagrees with your strategy of accusing

everyone who disagrees with you of being closed-minded. It is, as another poster here recently wrote, "juvenile and unbecoming."

[Tomee450]

50. And not telling the truth

is also quite juvenile and that is what some resort to when they cannot refute an argument. I don't believe I have accused EVERYONE with whom I disagree of having a closed mind. And I stand by what I wrote. To point out a minor mistake by someone with whom you disagree is childish. That is what YOU did.

[Tomee450]

36. No need for the

pettiness. I am aware that Byrd is from West Virginia. I was typing fast and made a mistake when erasing. Making such a comment about a minor mistake is so juvenile and unbecoming.

[QC]

39. Accusing people who honestly disagree with you

of being closed-minded is also quite "juvenile and unbecoming."

[Tomee450]

43. Nonsense

When someone repeats the same refrain in the face of information which refutes their assertions, that is being closed minded and there is nothing wrong with saying so. Farrakhan of today is not the man of twenty years ago. Anyone listening to his speeches can clearly see that. We have people here condemning him who obviously do not listen to him and are still discussing something he said years ago. Those same people don't talk about Robert Byrd and others who have changed over the years, only about black men who may have offended. Perhaps blacks should not vote for Hillary Clinton since she worked for Barry Goldwater who was opposed to civil rights.

It is very childish to point out someone's minor mistake just because you don't like her views. That is what you did.

[newspeak]

83. you know, my daughter

had a poster with MalcolmX, that basically stated that "I believe there may be a revolution in this country, it will not be about race but class." Malcolm X did evolve, and at the latter part of his life thought that education was the key.

[newspeak]

81. I'm with you

that's what I remember---Farrakhan going against Malcolm X, maybe with a little help from the government?

[SammyBlue]

93. As far as I am concerned, Robertson and Farrakhan are both leaders of hate

groups.

Race isn't an issue, language is. Both hate, both are bigots and both need to be vilified. Why do people give this wastrel so much credibility???

[ultraist]

10. I was very impressed by the MMM yesterday!

Farrakhan called for unity of all races to fight against poverty and injustice.

There were Christian Black leaders, secular Black leaders, major Black orgs and groups there all joining together for a common cause. It was very inspiring.

I could not imagine Pat Robertson doing something like that.

I'm more interested in the MESSAGE and the ACTION that took place yesterday, as well as future action than smearing one person with a shaded past. Apparently, major Black DEMS and other leaders are willing to overlook it, for the common good and so I am. I don't give a rat's ass what Farrakhan said about white people in the past, I'm interested in what ACTION is being taken to address the horrors of TODAY.

[Tim4319]

12. Pat Robertson is too busy.

He is too busy running his diamond mines in South Africa.

[mzmolly]

56. It's ironic that he called for the death of Malcom X for doing basically

the same thing he is today.

However, I'd let bygones be bygones if I could find one quote where he owned up to his previous statements.

I am glad he's got a reasoned message today, but I'd respect his message more were he to actually take some "personal responsibility" thereby actually practicing what he preaches.

[ultraist]

65. I guess you know better than Conyers, Mel Watt, Sheila Lee Jackson,

Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Cornel West, and many other Black leaders who are willing to look beyond past remarks by Farrakhan and stand with him in the cause for justice and peace.

Did you watch the MMM yesterday?

[mzmolly]

68. I am entitled to an opinion - even if that opinion differs from many whom

I admire. I have immense respect for John Conyers, I know little about Mr. West, and I am not a huge Al Sharpton fan, frankly. ;)

As H2O man stated above, it is possible to identify with what Farrakhan says today, and not fully trust/embrace him.

Additionally, I was unable to watch the march yesterday but I do hope they re-air it as I would like to do so.

[ultraist]

71. DR. West, why am I not surprised you aren't familiar with him?

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

I encourage you to watch the MMM, it will be re-aired. The message was powerful, you will enjoy it. Guarantee it.

And please consider paying attention to the fact that Conyers and other Dem leaders were at the event as well as many other Black leaders, including Christians.

I don't think anyone here is espousing that we should all embrace Farrakhan, join the NOI or even fully trust Farrakhan.

But what I do hear people saying is that diverting the focus off the message by engaging in an ad hominem assault against Farrakhan serves only a RW racist purpose.

[H2O Man]

72. It's interesting to note

that Martin met with Elijah in the 1960s. Didn't mean they were going to become close friends. (Martin and Malcolm, however, were joining forces on certain issues!)

There is enough room for both sides of this issue to give a little leeway. People can dislike Louis and not be white racists. And people can admire him and not be black racists. We are not on a fence. We are not at a point in history where one group will survive, while another perishes. We will either witness a growth spurt in our ability to embrace each other as part of the human family, or we will die the lonely death of fools. Both Martin and Malcolm recognized that in the 1960s. We should today.

[ultraist]

78. Yes, "we should today!"

We need to form alliances to fight for our cause.

Well said, H20 Man!

[mzmolly]

75. I don't blame ya for the dig, see my previous reply.

That's what I get for multi-tasking.

Cornel West I imagine got his notoriety in The Matrix ? ;)

Incidentally, Mr. er uhm, Dr. West has been critical of Farrakhan in the past as well. He has said that Farrakhan is popular not because of his message, but because of his manner.

I shall tune into the march though, as I hear it was phenominal. And, I will take Mr. Farrakhans words as those of a charasmatic leader whom I don't fully embrace.

I've watched snips of previous marches and support the MMM, but I don't support all that Farrakhan has stood for.

Peace out.

[ultraist]

77. Dr. West was a speaker at the million man march and attended the MMM

No one is suggesting that you love every part of Farrakhan or even really like him, but look beyond the personality to the message that was put out at the MMM.

Apparently, major Black leaders did so! I doubt that Jesse Jackson and other Dems agree with every statement that has come out of Farrakhan's mouth.

[fujiyama]

80. I remember when I saw Cornell West

in the Matrix, I was thinking "hey that's really cool" and wanted to ask my friends if they noticed.

Unfortunately, my friends wouldn't have recognized him.

[mzmolly]

74. Oh gosh, I thought you said/typed "Kayne West."

:crazy:

[noonwitch]

120. He's got Malcolm X's blood on his hands

The same way Henry II of England had Beckett's blood on his. If you call for someone's death, whether you mean it or not, and your flunkies choose to kill that person to please you, you are responsible. Maybe not legally, but you are morally.

I see the Nation of Islam guys all over Detroit, selling their fruit and their newspapers. I think it is a good thing that they are trying to get people to eat healthy, and I do think that if I were in an accident or was the victim of a crime, that I would appreciate their presence as people who would at least try to help.

[SammyBlue]

101. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

I said in a previous post that one speech does not atone for all the asshole racist comments this wastrel has barfed up in the past 25 years. That's my only point.

[Balbus]

25. No question about it.

[cwydro]

33. ya know

I gotta agree with you...I just think this religion thing is like a drug with some peeps...it makes them crazy and single minded and close minded and just awful...they lose all perspective.

[Ladyhawk]

48. I'm surprised anyone disputes this.

I suspect Farrakhan was involved in the death of Malcolm X, for one thing. Malcolm suddenly wasn't so easily controlled. He had become too moderate for the likes of Farrakhan.

Is the fact that Farrakhan is a nutjob in dispute on this board? If so, I'm flabbergasted. I was going to respond with: "What was your first clue?"

[Tomee450]

54. Some people might

think its quite racist to single out Farrakhan as a nut job when there are so many other nut jobs out there. The list of prominent nut cases is quite long. I suggest if Farrakhan was preaching an anti-black message such as Ward Connerly, Armstrong Williams, Walter Williams and a few others preach, some here would not be considering him as crazy. I think it's really his message to the black people that some resent. I think some people really don't like his message of black self-reliance.

[CatWoman]

55. *cue Janet Jackson's, "What have you done for me, lately*

[CatWoman]

53. This shit just goes in cycles

3 years ago, Cynthia McKinney was a racist bitch.

Seems her Dad said something derogatory about the Jews, and some elements on DU wanted to tar and feather her.

Never mind that she has ALWAYS fought the good fight.

Not saying that Farrahkan has, but I try to live in the present.

How far we've come :sarcasm:

[Ksec]

57. Didnt their messiah come down on a flying saucer ?

Now thats credible.

I believe it.

It aint his color. Its his fkin whackiness.

[ultraist]

67. No more out there than the Christian concepts

Noah and the ark, Creationism, Immaculate conception, the magical miracles, women came from Adam's rib, etc.

According to your premise, we should consider all Christian leaders and followers whackjobs.

[Ksec]

132. So did I say other Christian leaders werent whacky?

I didnt. But when they say the great honorable Alijah Muhammed came down on flying saucers I get real skeptical/

[Kaylee]

58. Why is it so hard for people to grasp that there will be .....

black people who came out the horrible years of segregation hating white people. I've been reading these Farrakan threads and everyone is gnashing their teeth at his rhetoric. Is it so unbelievable that sometimes after a lifetime of having hatred directed toward you, you would direct right back at your "oppressors"? I would say that this is a sign of weakness, but then again I don't know what life experience, if any, made him snap.

[cynatnite]

63. Aside from his racism and anti-semitism...

LF is RW and many of his views support it. He's anti-choice, he believes homosexuals can be 'cured' and is filthy rich.

He's still a RW nutjob just as is Pat Robertson. I see little difference between the two men.

[ultraist]

69. Farrakhan called for Bush's impeachment, that's RW?

Anti war, anti poverty, pro equal rights for all people of color is RW?

Guess you convienently left a few of his stances out, didn't you?

[cynatnite]

73. Savage called for Bush's impeachment, too

In the latest indication President Bush is having problems with his conservative core political constituency, Michael Savage, one of talk radio's biggest stars, tonight called for the impeachment of President Bush over his plans to legalize millions of illegal aliens.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36567

I guess he's not RW either :sarcasm:

[ultraist]

76. You are so hyperfocused on smearing Farrakhan

That you are missing the point. MAJOR, POWERFUL, BLACK, groups and leaders are expanding their alliances.

Turn a blind eye to it, if you wish, but I find it very inspiring. Quite frankly, I could give a flying fuck what Farrakhan has said in times past. I'm more concerned about how this movement is beginning to take shape to fight for a common cause. And I strongly support their message!

[cynatnite]

79. When he gives a public apology, I'll rethink my views of him...

I'm not ready to get on the Farrakhan bandwagon because he wants to impeach bush or is against the war. His racist, sexist and anti-semitic views are well documented and have been going on for years.

I would be a following idiot if I dismissed all of it because of things he's said recently.

A public apology is the only way I would be willing to consider taking a second look at the man.

[SammyBlue]

102. Amen, brother (or sister). Amen!

Thank you. . .at least I'm not alone.

[ultraist]

124. Fair enough

"When he gives a public apology, I'll rethink my views of him..."

At least you are willing to be open minded and understand that people can and do evolve and change. ;)

[radwriter0555]

94. This movement by farrakhan is financed by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon.

Might want to look into that.

[mzmolly]

125. The sentiment is "this is what's left" not that Farrakhan is a great man.

In fact, I read a quote yesterday to this effect. People cling to Farrakhan as he represents an era ~ MLK and Malcom X are no longer, as you know.

I hate to say this, but Farrakhan has a large following and the people you mention want to win elections too. The enemy of my enemy is my friend as they say. I personally accept things for what they are. I don't think Conyers (for example) is having the guy to dinner on a regular basis. The people who appeared with Farrakhan are simply compromising - something Democrats are skinned here for daily.

That said, I appreciate the good that comes from the MMM, and I would really like to hear Farrakhan renounce his previous remarks/bigotry/racism at such a venue. I won't hold my breath.

I do look forward to watching this powerful gathering and will draw any good that may come from it however.

[IntravenousDemilo]

136. So I guess racism is bad, but homophobia is forgiveable?

Riiiiiiiiiiiight... Follow the link I was given and see what he's said about people like me as recently as two years ago. Post #127.

[mzmolly]

70. I did not know that he was "anti-choice" and homophobic?

Wish I could say I was surprised.

[really annoyed]

85. I agree

But apparently, we live at a different universe at DU.

Just lately, a good amount of posts here are on the brink on insanity.

However, I am going to blame it on the Full Moon.

[Neil Lisst]

88. You can't be a liberal and say racists are OK because ...

... because they may do some good. I can't believe how many who claim to be progressives engage in the same kind of rationalizations the Freepers do.

Those here who find Farrakhan objectionable do so for good and historic reasons, factual reasons that shouldn't be in question. Instead of accepting that many of the left find Farrakhan anti-semitic, racist, sexist, conservative, and probably a murderer - we have members who are only too ready to insult and malign the motives of those of us with memories and more hours in the party than any of them.

I saw Farrakhan yesterday and heard what he had to say. He told blacks to abandon the Democratic party. The rest is irrelevant. Just because he says things that many blacks find acceptable doesn't mean we have to be blind to who he is and what he really stands for.

Speaking of irrelevant, do you need a laugh? try this
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[oasis]

89. Farrakan did not "tell blacks to abandon the Democratic party" at the

event yesterday. You may have read that into what he actually said.

Try asking yourself "Why would he invite Democratic members of congress to speak and then stab them in the back?"

[SammyBlue]

103. Because he's an opportunistic wastrel

And if I were a Democrat in Congress, I would steer far away from this bigot as I could. He does not speak for Democrats, he does not speak for progressives and he does not speak for the Black Community.

Louis Farrakhan speaks for the advancement of Louis Farrakhan. You know, the racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semetic bigot that he is, was and always will be.

[Neil Lisst]

107. Why don't you accept that others have opinions, too?

Why must you Farrakhan fans insist that others hear what you hear, perceive what you perceive?

I heard what he said. If you want to construe his statements the way that gets you where you need to be, then do so, but don't tell me he didn't tell them to stop supporting the Dem party because he did.

Accept that your view is not shared by many progressives in the party, from coast to coast.

[really annoyed]

131. Excellent post

**Just because he says things that many blacks find acceptable doesn't mean we have to be blind to who he is and what he really stands for.**

Great quote!

[0007]

108. You make stupid a statement and at the same time don't want

transparency. How come?
:shrug:

[jzodda]

114. I agree with this

but why so many posts about this wacko? Lets put him back into the bottle he came out of, and hopefully for good. Hes one of those people we do not need, nor want on our side. Every good thing he says about the Dem party is another 1000 moderates or non-political who will vote for the other side.

[are_we_united_yet]

116. ZZZZ ZZZZZZ ZZZZzzzzzzzz zzzzzzz zzzzzzzz...

[populistdriven]

118. EVERYONE IGNORES THE OBVIOUS - MILLIONS IN SAUDI MONEY

to fund Mosque's & Farrakhan http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/interviews/hathout.html

Farrakhan, Robertson & Bush are all weeds that have taken over the vacant lot that used to be occupied by secular liberals & conservatives alike.

What this country needs is an anti-911 event.

Maybe if Pat Robertson personally kills Hugo Chavez, George Bush personally eats Saddams brain and Farrakhan personally sets fire to a school bus full of Jewish children will this country finally get back on track.

[mzmolly]

122. Very interesting.

Thanks for the link.

[porphyrian]

123. Farrakhan stands up and says things other people won't say...

...things that are true about our society today and its inherent racism. The problem is that he also says racist shit against non-Blacks and some conspiritorial speculations that may or may not be taken to be equally true by his audience. But, give some credit to his audience. Most of the listeners know when he's full of shit, but they like hearing him when he's right. People know when he's just saying hateful shit, but people also like to hear it going in the other direction for once. Instead of spending so much time pointing out Farrakhan's faults, maybe someone IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY needs to take some fucking notes on what he's saying that's right.

[WI_DEM]

130. I don't care for haters no matter who they are

[FrankChurch]

133. The rally was not about Farrakhan

The rally was about black pain and unity. We can punch on Louis some other day, this stuff is good for the community. Better than the media showing that riot footage.

Black people cannot be told by whites who their leaders are.

[eridani]

137. There was going to be a gay speaker at the march

Some other homophobic whackjob nixed it though. Farrakhan seems to be slowly coming around. I wouldn't have known about the event at all if if weren't for the internets.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/101705H.shtml

For once, Farrakhan had succeeded in gaining the support of the big American Black organizations, such as the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, founded by Martin Luther King. The principal Black Christian leaders - Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton - took their turn at the podium, as did some hip-hop stars - Russell Simmons and Kanye West. In an attempt at openness that was extreme for a man who not long ago made no effort to hide his homophobia, Farrakhan even invited a gay leader, Keith Boykin, to take the microphone. But in a last minute change of heart Saturday, Boykin was asked to refrain from mounting the podium.

All the speakers called attention to the gap that still exists in the United States between Whites and Blacks (about 14% of the population). The poverty rate among Blacks has reached 25%, or double the national average. One out of five has no health insurance. Among black men aged 25 to 29, one out of eight is in prison. The unemployment rate among Blacks is 9.4%, or double that of Whites. Since 2000, average purchasing power of Afro-Americans is in decline. "These last ten years, we have seen Blacks succeed, but also many have fallen into poverty," deplore Denise and Richard Mangum, a couple of magistrates who came from New York. "We're here to remind the government of that, but also to remind companies, and the rest of society." According to them, Katrina will not be enough to reanimate awareness: "The country has already begun to forget. Who is worrying about all those displaced people?"

Standing, they follow the speeches on one of the giant screens set up. Most of the speakers refrain from attacking the Bush administration directly, preferring to concentrate their blows against a "system" that, according to them, remains impregnated with racism. The opposition to Bush, in any case, goes without saying: according to a poll conducted by NBC and the Wall Street Journal after Katrina, only 2% of American Blacks still have a favorable opinion of their President, versus 12% some weeks before.