Red Rose Stories Closed by FBI

[Pluvious]

The American Taliban begins to clean up this country...

(shrug, if you can't find Osama, go after the real sinners right?)

Edit: http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=10680

---
PITTSBURGH — Online erotic stories host Red Rose Stories announced on its site Friday that the FBI had forced it to shut down.

According to a posting on the site’s main page, Red Rose Stories is facing obscenity charges for posting stories that allegedly involved bestiality, water sports, scat, bondage and domination, S&M, slavery, threesomes, orgies and sex with children.
...
"Trust me on this. I found out the hard way. I never thought I'd be in trouble for the written word," Rosie told XBiz via email. "I had no pictures of a sexual nature on my site, adult or otherwise. the only legal sex stories are those that involve a man and a woman consenting to missionary position sex in a dark room."

Rosie said officials came to her house when she was not home and seized a number of items.
---

Her site: http://www.red-rose-stories.com

________________
"The people get the government they deserve."

[Algorem]

1. Just in time for Porn Sunday.

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

[Skip Intro]

6. What the hell is "Porn Sunday?" n/t

[Algorem]

11. This Sunday is National Porn Sunday!HA-CHA-CHA!

National Porn Sunday October 9

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/oct/05100705.html

LOS ANGELES, October 7, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Hundreds of churches across the US plan to participate in National Porn Sunday, a one-day event designed to start the conversation about the issues surrounding pornography, “America’s ‘dirty little secret,’” according to Porn Sunday creators, xxxchurch.com.

The focus of Porn Sunday is to get churches and pastors talking about the issue of pornography and sexual addictions, according to its founders, California pastors Mike Foster and Craig Gross. The two founded xxxchurch.com in 2002, which they dub “the No. 1 Christian porn site.”

“Churches in the past have been accepting of drug abuse, alcohol abuse and these types of addictions ... but porn in the church is like ... the scarlet letter on you,” said Foster. “We hope it allows people to discuss it in a graceful, non-threatening way.”

Statistics reveal that 40 million people regularly visit internet porn web sites daily, while 47% of Christians said pornography is a major problem in the home; 10% of adults admit to internet sexual addiction – 65% are male, while 35% are female. Porn revenue is larger than all combined revenues of all professional football, baseball and basketball franchises, and exceeds the combined revenues ...

[Parche]

13. CHURCH

Church is religious Porn

[Raster]

14. THANK YOU!!! religious porn with sado-masochistic overtones...

...and don't even get me started on the homoerotic elements.

[alfredo]

23. Like this?

[progressoid]

52. Ha ha ha - Can you imagine looking at that every Sunday?

[alfredo]

55. Especially if you are a victim of abuse by a priest.

[Lochloosa]

53. That's just wrong

tell me that is photoshopped....please

[alfredo]

57. I think it is a blessing of the,

as my friend calls them, altar monkeys. I do think it is depicting a ceremony involving altar boys. But then it could be what it looks like.

[sakabatou]

58. Holy crap, is that real?

[alfredo]

60. It looks real. either the artist didn't think of how it would appear,

or has a very wicked sense of humor.

[BiggJawn]

33. "Addiction"... Always with the addiction thing!

what a load. If I have a hot wife or girlfriend who wants it 8 times a day and I can deliver and then some, I'm no "pervert", I'm fucking SUPERMAN!

But let me watch some video vixens and slap Mr. Happy around a coupla times a day, and I'm a "sicko".

Like a girlfriend I once had was fond of saying "I'm no Nympho, I just like to FUCK!"

[Tigress DEM]

63. Addiction I think (in respect to the Porn Sunday)l....

is more in respect to Ministers or Priests that have addictions to sex with children and for the families involved. People who have the desire for sex with children aren't usually content to have sex lives that are normal and healthy.

It's either a "there is never enough sex going on" so I'm plugging everything that passes by me irrespectful of age (when obviously there are videos for every occassion that would be more appropriate than having sex with a child) or there is a something that draws the pedofile to the innocence of a child.

And for the record if you're slap happy with your video vixens and/or your girlfriend any number of times a day, that's your thing and I don't think it makes you a sicko.

A lust for farm animals acted out where just anyone might happen by, well, that's sick. Know what I'm saying?

If you can't go to work because you can't tear yourself away from yourself, or if you have to run out to the car and drive around and jack off during your breaks and lunch to make it through the day, you might have a problem. Still, it's America and we've all got our problems.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. St. Onan's Day.

[merwin]

2. Isn't that a free speech violation?

[eyesroll]

8. It's an interesting issue...I really don't know.

As far as I know, stories and even pictures of threesomes, orgies, etc., are considered run-of-the-mill porn, which is protected in a keep-it-away-from-minors way. Not sure about water sports, scat, bestiality.

It's the stories of child sex that muddy the waters the most. Pictures are, of course, illegal (and disgusting), because they involve real children. But the written word? Just letters on a screen? Dunno.

[smoogatz]

21. Stories could only be considered illegal under obscenity law.

Illegal child porn, by definition, has to involve images of actual children; so said the Rhenquist court, anyway. But when the state decides for us that certain kinds of writing are obscene and therefore illegal to publish or possess, we're mere hours away from burning everything from Nabokov to Lawrence to Maupin.

[Tigress DEM]

65. Is it only the images of children or if the story were supposedly true...

and they were able to determine the person who had written it had committed criminal acts with a specific child, therefore making her an accessory after the fact for not reporting it?

[sarcasmo]

17. Haven't you realized we are no longer free.

The Christian Taliban is taking away all of your freedoms.

[Tigress DEM]

64. Without knowing the content of the site it's hard to say.

The allegation states there was porn involving children. That is something criminal they can shut you down for. Person involved says no such thing was there. Hope they have a good lawyer and someone who can verify if anything was messed with on her system or the server involved.

Hosting services and I think places like AOL have agreed to start refusing to allow "inapporpriate" material out on their servers, but how tight that definition is I don't know.

If it's a case that the hosting service buckled under pressure, then it's not exactly a violation of her rights, no one has to give you a venue for your porn or performance art etc... You just have a right to put it together.

[LeighAnn]

3. Are pictures of animals having sex considered bestiality?

I've seen lots of funny pictures like that... wonder if they could shut your site down for it, or worse?

[Tigress DEM]

66. Animals having sex with their own species=nature. With humans=bestiality.

If you have your own server, I think it has to be a criminal act.

Trying to think if actual sex with animals is criminal. It probably is. It's definately not smart from a health standpoint. STDs originally came to us from sheep and lonely shepards.

Also it could be considered cruelty to animals because a human could find ways to force a frightened non-consenting animal.

But there are new obscenity "standards?" that mainstream host servers like AOL and the like are following. I don't think it's actually "law" yet, but I could be wrong.

I think they can choose to not allow you to use their server if certain types of postings (that they deem obscene) are going on and somewhere in the fine print of the account agreement it would have been there or some sort of update notification.

[MaineDem]

4. I thought Red Rose was a tea

I am so out of the loop. :)

[yowzayowzayowza]

20. Only in Canader, eh?

Pity.

...sorry, Great White North flashback there....

[TacticalPeek]

5. Link? n/t

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. This really scares me

As an erotica writer, I am very disturbed to hear that the FBI can enter someone's house when they're not home and confiscate their property in this manner.

I see the Handmaid's Tale becoming more of a reality every day.

:scared:

[Angry Girl]

12. Oh, we're there, we;re there.... *shudder*

Wal-Mart Turns in Student’s Anti-Bush Photo, Secret Service Investigates Him
http://progressive.org/mag_mc100405

Secret Service investigating university student
http://www.woodtv.com/global/story.asp?s=3822432&ClientType=Printable

And the 14 Characteristics of Fascism game - how many can YOU identify in this country?
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2

[Tigress DEM]

67. Almost.

I read the WalMart deal. It's like the neighbors calling because they are afraid a domestic assault is going on, but it turns out to be a noisy game of charades with witnesses to the happy couple's non-violent portrayal of some bizzare clue. The cops check it out, make sure nothing is going on or being covered up. False alarm. End of story.

You can't threaten to shoot or advise others to shoot the President. Regardless of his status as being marginally elected or probably fraudulently elected, he got his butt in the chair and is there with Secret Service protection.

Thing is that is illegal even if you aren't talking about the President. It is illegal to threaten to shoot or advise others to shoot your neighbor next door or across town. If you said that to any fellow citizen, they could call the police and report you for verbal assault. If you advised someone to shoot someone else, someone knew about it and that person shot the person you told them to, you would be party to murder.

Yeah, we're getting more imbedded in those points all the time. Still, we don't need to stoop to their level, and people need to know about the scope of the law when they open up their mouth to criticize the chimpinator.

[DemInDistress]

9. you should have included Beheadings

in your site.I cant believe I can watch beheadings on the internet but
not sex,its here,"BIG BROTHER" SHAME ON America a once proud and free
country.I hate to think what's in store for the rest of us dissenters.

[LizW]

10. The FBI is going to be very, very busy

when they discover fanfiction. The Harry Potter stuff alone should take years to shut down.

:eyes:

[clichemoth]

29. Yes, yes they will.

And just wait until they get an eyeful of this stuff. :)

Seriously (and sadly), they will probably go after them all in order to make the Internet a "family-friendly" place to visit WND, NewsMax, Faux, and the Freep. And since a lot of things are hosted in non-fascist nations, the BFEE will have no recourse but to block all international Net traffic to and from the US (unless you get a special exemption for being a Halliburton exec or something). They could almost get people to support it due to all the scare tactics the M$M has employed when dealing with the Internet over the past 10 years.

But many people wouldn't fall for it and they'd create millions of current and future revolutionaries ready to take them down.

Yeah, just try it, guys, just try it. . .

[guruoo]

32. Guess they'll get to see what life is like

in Iraq, but without leaving home.

[TimeChaser]

50. Uh oh

... I must admit, I've written some lemony fanfics, and I know many other people who have.

What does the FBI care if I think CidxVincent is cute?

[Tigress DEM]

69. I think hosting servers can boot you, but CidxVincent is a character?

Not an actual human minor that you are talking about exploiting?

I think what I have read in the recent past is that the main hosting services like AOL etc.. are working with the FBI under voluntary obscenity guidelines to prove they are serious about a zero tolerance for child porn.

If you look at the full story about Red Rose in the OP there is no denial of stories about child pornography, only that there were no pics. What I am wondering is if these were published on her site as true tales or as plans to commit the crime of pedophilia that the site became an accessory by publishing it instead of reporting it.

[melody]

76. Most fan fic archives have eliminated the Potter underage crap

Thank heavens...that's a very unusual occurrence in the realms of adult fan fic which has traditionally been about consenting adults.

Just try to go after normal adult fan fiction, if they want to see women over forty get truly upset. :nuke:

[SpiralHawk]

15. BushCo already "clamped down" on Jeff Gannon's porno personna

as a Bush White House Male prostitute/"journalist.

Now that was obscene.

They are going to ACCELERATE the GENERAL CLAMPDOWN now.

All the signs are there.

[benburch]

16. Told you so.

I tried to warn people months ago that this was going to happen.

[MelissaB]

22. Yep, you did!

I nominated some of those threads to spread the word.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Sex with children? Sounds like US troops in Iraq!

The biggest obscenity in our nation's history is our rape of Iraq. FBI is now the vice squad for the religious lunatics that are in control of the Bush regime.

Perhaps we should start sending condoms to the FBI...

[Tigress DEM]

70. They won't let THAT tape out either.

You have heard that there is a video tape with soldiers in Iraq sodomising children? It's locked up in a court case with various reasons for not revealing it.

[Selteri]

19. Wow, that'll shut down almost every written word porn site I visit

Let's see - as a writer who has written porn that means I'm guilty by their definition, I can also count at least 5 sites where I read works by other authors where the FBI will likely gleefully shut them down, most of which don't even have a whisper of anything child porn related, though I'm sure the FBI will be happy to close down for even the hint of someone under 18. Now for the other things on those sites, let's start with lesbian stories which are the most common ones to find, BnD, Slavery, Threesomes and non-missionary sexual acts of extreme perversion... hell, that could shut down a porn-site I've been considering starting up. Hrm.. I wonder if crossdressing, cosplay and taking the lords name in vain by the woman screaming' 'Oh God!' in the stories are also illegal by their definition.

Actually, it will also shut down a huge portion of the internet. Se La Vie to anything resembling rights.

On Edit - Whoops, can't forget, they'll be going after Victorian Age Porn too.

[smoogatz]

24. It's not just porn.

It's everything from "Lady Chatterly's Lover" to "Lolita" to "Naked Lunch." Not to mention 9/10 of queer lit. I can't believe they're actually going after the written word. When will the book burnings commence?

[MelissaB]

25. If you are considering starting a site you might want to consider

an overseas server as well as setting up a "corporation" there.

[NashVegas]

26. I Don't Care About the B & D and Other Fetish Crap

But if they had sex stories featuring children, I don't see how that's much different from a graphic kiddie porn site.

[smoogatz]

27. No victims.

The reason child porn (photos, movies, etc.) is in a special class legally is that, in order to make it, children are victimized by definition. Obviously, there are no victims when a story is written--except maybe the reader, if it's a really bad story. "Lolita" is a sex story about a child, after all. So is "Romeo and Juliet."

[NashVegas]

37. Lolita, R & J

R & J were of the same age.

The protagonist of Lolita does not meet a happy end, in my recollection. Want to try any others?

[smoogatz]

38. Hardly the point.

Whether the stories have happy endings or not, and whether the sex is consensual or not, or between same-age kids or not, isn't the point. Obviously.

[Tigress DEM]

68. Fictional VS Real Life (ie there is a victim) would be the point.

I noted this earlier. The only exception I can think of is if these were "true tales" and that the site was becoming an accessory after the fact of a crime by publishing them instead of reporting the crime.

[Chan790]

28. different.

The simplest difference is that kiddie porn is illegal specifically because it's damaging to the children exploited in its creation.

With kiddie erotic fiction, who is hurt by its' creation or existence?

[NashVegas]

36. Not Quite

Okay, I'll fess up, here. I've never read kiddie porn fiction. So I can only imagine that the bulk of it somehow implies that sex between adults and children is a-okay. We're talking fantasy after all, here. Just like graphic kiddie porn implies that sex between adults and kids is a-okay.

By putting kiddie porn in a place where anyone can access it, for society to allow that implies that society approves or endorses that message. A-okay. Society makes laws to protect itself. So we shut down publicly disseminated kiddie porn fiction to prevent future crimes.

But if you think it's so approvable, why don't you write a book of kiddie-porn fiction and try to get it on bookshelves of stores and libraries where anyone can walk in and read it?

[smoogatz]

39. Your argument is that "society" is injured by certain distasteful ideas,

and therefore those ideas should be suppressed. My feeling is that the suppression of ideas is always a greater danger to society than the ideas themselves. Who gets to decide, after all, which ideas are bad and which are good? I don't particularly want Bush's FBI making up the country's mind about what is and isn't acceptable reading matter. Today it's kiddie-porn fiction on the internet, tomorrow, as I said before, it's Nabokov and Shakespeare. It's a free speech thing--that pesky first amendment.

[NashVegas]

45. Great. Prove Me Wrong

Your challenge:

First, write a series of erotic fiction featuring 10 year olds. With titles like "Daddy's Nasty Slut," one whose description I found on Google cache for Red Rose.

Then when your work is complete, try to find a publisher to launch it in any bookstore where minors are allowed through the door.

[smoogatz]

49. Prove what wrong, exactly? What's your point?

I can walk into any Borders in the country and buy anything from "Lolita" to "Justine," along with a whole lot of anonymous Victorian porn featuring sex with teenage girls. Apparently you think those books ought to be illegal to sell or own. Porn novels aren't my particular favorites, but I don't think they ought to be burned, either. Do you?

[mongo]

44. Yes, lets sanitize our society to conform to the religious rights values

while we're at it. So, after all these people get busted for something you find DISTASTEFUL - don't come crying to us when your right to an abortion, or your right to birth control is taken away.

'cause we'll all be in jail.

So we shut down publicly disseminated kiddie porn fiction to prevent future crimes.

Nice totally unsubstantiated statement from a bunch of anecdotal evidence from RW sources - several reputable studies have shown otherwise.

[Pepperbelly]

56. Prior restraint of speech because of what some yahoo MIGHT do?

Give me a fucking break. That is not only anti-democratic and anti-freedom of expression, it is dumb. Sorry, but I've read every Thomas Harris book written and have not yet serial killed anyone.

[Tigress DEM]

72. If someone puts their plans online to rob a bank, they'd get charged

with intent to commit grand larceny.

I think it depends on how specific the story is, whether there is an actual victim or planned target in the story. This could be a "true tales" type site where it is assumed if the title is "Daddy's Little Sex Slave" and specific illegal acts have been published as fait accompli then that makes the site an accessory after the fact for not reporting a crime.

[Tigress DEM]

71. Legally, Crisco, we're looking for an actual victim here.

Free speech protects the KKK and rush limpballs and people who think sex with children is ok, but when they step over the line and burn a cross, punch someone out, snatch a child and use their equipment wrongfully... then the gloves are off.

The reason pictoral child porn is in a class by itself is because you can see there was obviously a victim. A crime happened.

If these stories on Rose Red were "true tales" of either actual child porn interactions or planned interactions they may have made the site an accessory AND the hosting service as well if they didn't cooperate.

If the FBI is working with a hosting service that is voluntarily obeying new "obscenity guidelines" then the hosting service has a right (and an obligation to post said guidelines) to decide what is allowed and what isn't allowed on their website.

Hosting sites can choose to limit what they consider obscene and usually are given lead to police themselves like we do on DU. So if that is all Rose Red is up against it may be a violation of their agreement with the hosting service and probably stiff fines. If a victim of the child porn is revealed, the stakes are higher.

[satya]

30. Under those standards, won't they have to shut down Bible websites? nt

[guruoo]

31. Search safe - googleproxy.com

http://googleproxy.com/

[Warren DeMontague]

34. So a transcript of Sy Hersh describing allegations re:Abu Ghraib

would be...

Speaking of Abu Ghraib, how come we can't get Bush, Cheney and Rummy indicted for conspiracy to produce S&M porn?

[Cooley Hurd]

35. Um... what's "scat?"

...and why was Mel Torme a pervert for doing so? ;)

[Theres-a]

40. I want to know,too

But was afraid to ask.I'm afraid to google it..

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

41. Sex with shit

eating it, smearing it, etc

[Theres-a]

42. I'm so glad I didn't google that.

[Cooley Hurd]

43. Jeebus!

:puke:

That's just plain fucked up. :(

[Tigress DEM]

73. Hunter terminology for turds....

Don't know what you'd have to do with scat to be considered a perv, but probably the same thing shoe fettish people do.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

46. I notice it was a pay site

And a small, low-profile paysite at that. Can anyone provide any insights or guesses as to why this site was selected, when Google Groups and Usenet are filled to the gills with this kind of material, free?

[Tigress DEM]

74. FBI keyword searches for child porn...

I think it's the only thing they are really "supposed" to be searching for, although with new guidelines, there may be charges for posting obscene material on a hosting server that specifically posted guidelines forbidding it.

[leeroysphitz]

47. Related: Kevin Bacon was interviewed by Stern

a couple of days ago about a new movie in which he stars. The movie will be released unrated to avoid the dreaded NC-17 rating it was given by the MPAA.

When the director of this film appealed the rating he had to appear before a TEN member review panel. when he got appeared there were TWELVE people in the room. When asked who the two other people were he was told that they were "members of the clergy".

Needless to say the appeal failed.

If this is to be believed then we now have to have our ART approved by "members of the clergy" taking a direct role in the ratings system.

I haven't seen the movie and don't know if the content in question deserves NC-17 or not but that REALLY isn't the freaking point.

I can't live in a world where the Jerry Falwell's are running the show. I just can't.

[smoogatz]

61. OMG--It's Bobbbbbbbbbbbb!!!!

Hail, Subgenius!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

77. The scene in question involved a threesome with (obviously) nudity.

It was all done in one shot and lasts for several minutes. Atom Egoyan (the director) said he couldn't edit it because the scene doesn't have any cuts and is a vital component of the film as a whole.

Meanwhile, a movie like The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (the remake) features someone blowing their head off with a shotgun, yet it only receives an R.

[phusion]

48. Is this real?

I have to keep asking this question on threads like this.

I am having a hard time accepting the reality that our government is going after the written word. Disregarding the First Amendment because of some vague notion of "obscenity."

Unbelievable.

What country is this?

[benburch]

51. Entirely real

Welcome to the Fourth Reich.

[Rich Hunt]

54. well, then

Petition the government to put it back up. At the very least, we are owed an explicit explanation for why it was taken down.

The ACLU should sue to find out what happened. At the same time, this IS a business, the woman is taking money, and as such, she could be doing something illegal under the guise of a sex industry operation. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but organized crime has taken to doing some nasty shit under the cover of 'porn sites' 'story sites', etc.

And if they're doing that, they are as accountable as any business. Using a paying porn site to conduct an illegal operation is fraud. It's also a neat way of subverting the first amendment. Always two sides to everything. Get wise. It also isn't safe to read sex stories, or go to porn sites online, because of people who steal your information and use it for blackmail. And that's a fact. If you're going to tell one side of the story, and act all 'free' and hip and streetwise...you tell the other side, too.

Sorry, I'm not falling for this trap. The Constitution is the Constitution, and I demand that they respect it.

It's not a contradiction at all.

But let's see the evidence, and a detailed explanation. Because I'm sick of the games. Until then, I refuse to believe everything I read...it's all a game, and a private way of communicating, and the ultimate goal is to subvert everyone's freedom of expression from within.

This site from California is asking you to call 'the Pittsburgh FBI' to get your money back.

So why don't we all do that. Obviously we are owed some answers. I mean, even the tiniest porn sites have rights, don't they?

C'mon - let's see it!

[Pepperbelly]

59. Dirty fucking goose-stepping fascists.

Fuck each and every one of those rotten motherfuckers involved in this. I don't give a shit about the site but these rights-trampling brownshirts do not have the authority to do that. Fuck every one of the pea-brained, religio-fascist, crypto-ass-sucking mutants.

[melody]

75. The contention by Feds is they were trading illegal photos in chatroom

It wasn't just shutdown for stories - the stories were pretty disgusting at that. Still, it shouldn't have been shutdown just for frickin' fiction.