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Time to Recall E-Vote Machines? Wired.com rings in

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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:14 AM
Original message
Time to Recall E-Vote Machines? Wired.com rings in
Time to Recall E-Vote Machines?
By Kim Zetter

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60713,00.html

08:39 AM Oct. 06, 2003 PT

As Californians head to the polls on Tuesday, voters in at least one county will cast their ballots electronically on machines that have been shown to be flawed.

......

However, information obtained by Wired News at a training session for Alameda County poll workers indicates that security lapses in the use of the equipment and poor worker training could expose the election to serious tampering.

Voting-machine experts say the lapses could allow a poll worker or an outsider to change votes in machines without being detected. And because other problems inherent in the software wont be fixed before the recall, experts say sophisticated intruders can intercept and change vote tallies as officials transmit them electronically.

......
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, the lawsuits that will be filed
on Wednesday.

David Allen
www.plan9.org

Diebold Voting Machines
We vote for you, so you don't have to!
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I heard one comment yesterday from someone involved...
... with one of the campaigns that we should be "putting the new governor in place as soon as possible" to prevent Davis from signing legislation his candidate didn't like, presumably. California officials reiterated that the election wasn't official until the results had been certified (up to 28 days in CA).

It sounds, already, as if there's an attempt to hustle through the certification, and I have no doubt there's going to be considerable pressure on the CA SoS to do just that. That in itself may generate a few lawsuits.

Cheers.
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Electronic Voting invalidates the Recall and renders it illegitimate
If the voting is not secure and does not employ "public observance" throughout the process, then it is violating the Voting Rights act.

The Susan Weber case in Riverside California is a blatant example of bias where the judge didnt allow the evidence (and I believe experts) needed to prove this into the trial at all. Its being appealed, and it needs some media attention. Also consider Riverside county, no hotbead of progressive thinking there.

As far as legalities go, I would think this is an open and shut case, especially with all the work Bev and others have done. It PROVES these machines arent secure.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Shance, I've started to read the VRA (link to pdf below)
and haven't yet found the text that supports the contention that "If the voting is not secure and does not employ "public observance" throughout the process, then it is violating the Voting Rights act", though I've heard this before.

Can you tell me what section?

http://www.southerncouncil.org/pdf/vra1965.pdf
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TinfoilHatProgrammer Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. a random observation
However, information obtained by Wired News at a training session for Alameda County poll workers indicates that security lapses in the use of the equipment and poor worker training could expose the election to serious tampering.

"Security lapses in the use of the equipment" and "poor working training" don't really sound like bugs in the e-vote machines... maybe your post should say "time to recall incompetent poll workers?" instead.

JC
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Notice the Use of Double Standards by Voting Machine Companies
Whenever the machines appear to work well, all the credit is given to the voting systems and their programming.

When things go bad, OR WHEN A SCAPEGOAT IS NEEDED EITHER PRE-ELECTION OR POST-ELECTION, then it's always the fault of the poll workers.

Since most of the defense of these auditless machines rests on "people security," I think the Wired story points out quite well how much we can depend on that 100%.

It's not the fault of the poll workers entirely. But when you have so many uncontrolled variables, (people) then the system they are supposed to understand and protect had better be pretty much immune to problems and "Outside Influence." Which we know the electronic machines are not.

Security is not about stop-gap measures to prevent mistakes and fraud. It's about taking security seriously from the git go and in any security analysis, you need back up. In this case, a voter-verified paper ballot.

Two uncontrolled variables, people AND machines, are just too susceptible to fraud.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sounds eerily like the Chimp Admin. modus operandi.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. actually sounds like we need a PAPER TRAIL
since there is no foolproof practical electronic method that would.

besides we got their OWN EMAILS that talk about the bugs in the software in case you have FORGOTTON ;->

:hi:

peace
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Simple, if there were a verifiable paper trail, then one could PROVE
who's fault it was.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here's what I really DO NOT GET.
ANYONE who has had even minimal experience with a computer has UP CLOSE and personal experience of how, although they're hyped as wonderful time-savers, etc.. etc... at tiny program glitch can just "make your day" as you sit screaming at the screen and tearing out your hair.

I'm a Luddite and a simple-minded user. I just want the sucker to work. When my music writing program starts irritating me (it is NOT intuitive) I turn the shit off and grab pencil and paper. It saves INCREDIBLE amounts of time and hassle and keeps my blood pressure in an appropriate range.

If a dingbat like me can figure out that electronic voting without hard copy is ABSURD, HOW DID THIS SHIT GET SO FAR GONE??? I know this seems like a rhetorical question, but who in his RIGHT MIND would green-light such a fiasco??? HOW IS IT THAT NO HIGH-PROFILE POLITICO HAS STOOD ON A SOAPBOX AND SCREECHED TO THE HEAVENS, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!"

Bev PROVES it, backed up by the best and brightest in the field and TODAY an important election WILL BE COMPROMISED by clearly flawed system.

Kids, please forgive my screaming, I'm just utterly astounded, astonished and horrified at what I'm seeing in the state I lived in for over a decade.

My thoughts, prayers and wishes for TRUTH and JUSTICE are with every enlightened Californian today.

Sorry for the rant.
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