Not one Levee broke

[Cattledog]

It was the flood walls which apparently are only 2ft thick. From 60
minutes.

[karlrschneider]

1. Isn't that a distinction without a difference?

...

[KharmaTrain]

20. The Canal Walls are what NOLA wanted replaced

The canal system is over 100 years old and has been a patchwork for decades. The '98 plan was to replace those thin walls along the canals with a more reinforced system...or even to turn the canals into concrete spillways similar to what's in LA...so the water couldn't work it's way under the walls and cripple the integrity of the system.

The 17th street levee gave way not from over the top, but from the bottom...the water surge got underneath the aging wall and pushed it out...from then on out, New Orleans was doomed to its fate.

The levees are along the Lake and Mississippi. From reports I saw last night, there was some levee failure on the far east side (St. Bernard Parish) but the levees throughout the city of New Orleans did hold.

[stlsaxman]

2. I smell Rove shit...

when the announcer said "One thing we DID learn... " you know he's starting to whore.

[karlrschneider]

3. Yeah...like (sotto voce) "We have just been informed by Roveco..."

:eyes:

[Skidmore]

4. That's funny because my cousin has been down

there working on a levee for several days now. At least he's pretty sure it's a levee. Didn't say a word about a sea wall, just a levee.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. Bullshit they didn't!

I saw photos of a fucking broken levee, I don't give a shit what 60 Minutes says.

What were they trying - or not trying - to drop sandbags into all week?

[Igel]

6. The picture I saw with a very, very large breech in it

certainly looked like a levee to me.

And if it was two feet thick, I want to know who exactly lives in all those little 30" long houses nearby.

[Mr Rabble]

7. LOL. Thats funny.

[mcg]

15. HERE'S A PICTURE....

Go to

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

click on the "Life and Death" slide show and see picture # 2

"Workers rebuild the 17th Street canal levee in New Orleans on Sept. 4.
Water poured in through the breached levee, flooding the city after
Hurrican Katrina."

And if it's two feet thick, those people and that equipment must be
very tiny. Maybe a reducer ray was used to get them down to that size.

[Sven77]

8. i heard some rumors

total rumors, dont believe it, but this is what i heard. that grain barges rammed the wall.

[Tyranny_R_US]

9. I heard this last night as well

[RedRocco]

10. I'm wondering

about the bridge construction site the 17th st canal failed at....

[newyawker99]

19. Hi carolinarocco!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pursuivant]

17. I don't think so.

Grain barges sure wouldn't be in a drainage canal (17th St. Canal)and I doubt that they'd be on Lake Ponchartrain (the lake is only something like 15 feet deep and it doesn't seem to have any shipping channels leading into or out of it). It would be far more likely that they'd be on the Mississippi River, which is on the other side of NOLA from the places where the levees broke.

A quick web search reveals this particular rumor is circulating on the message boards associated with that fine unbiased news source, the Drudge Report.

My guess is that the Freepers are falling over themselves to explain away the obvious - their party screwed up big-time.

[BeFree]

11. Maybe this is what it means?

The flood walls are placed on top of the levee extending the height of the actual levee by several feet.

When a flood wall broke, releasing a stream of water, that water cut into the earthen levee causing it to wash away.

So, a levee did not give way, it was eroded as a consequence of the failure of the flood wall.

An aside: I have been thinking that a proper reaction to a levee being overtopped would have been to open a gate in the flood wall or the levee itself releasing just enough water to keep the whole system from being damaged. A small section of land would be flooded, yes, but it would have been a controlled flood ensuring the whole system didn't collapse leading to the massive flood.

[klyon]

12. sounds like more word games and cover your ass time

spin spin spin

KL

[kurtyboy]

16. The Likeliest scenario

The Flood walls are situated atop the levees, provide an additional few feet of "freeboard"--or protection against a higher flood than the levee provides.

The flooding, surging canal (part of the lake, for these purposes) overtopped the flood wall, probably by less than a foot. But that few inches of water, spilling down from a height of several feet for hours, onto an earthen levee, probably tore the levee up. The foundation under one section of flood wall was undermined, and that single section collapsed.

Once this occurred, the cascade of collapse quicly spread to the left and to the right of the initial failure, as now the was several feet of torrent rushing into the breach. Other sections tumbled into the foam until and equilibrium, of sorts, keept further erosion of the levee/floodwall from happening.

However, now the breach was over 300 feet wide, and ten feet deep. Little could be done but to sound the alarm and evacuate the city.

BUT the alarm was not sounded right away!

I watched a press conference (I think on Tuesday, but maybe Monday) that included Senator Landrieu after she and others had completed an overflight of the city. One of the people in her party was quick to emphasize that we were "not seeing the city fill up like a saucer", insinuating that this was not the big one.

Anyone else see the same conference?

[pursuivant]

18. I think you're right

The flood walls were essentially a "liner" for the levees.

The diagrams I've seen show that the water topped the flood walls, which extended above the earthen levees. This washed away the earth that was supporting the wall, causing the wall to collapse.

Once you have a failure in one place, the force of the water rushing through enlarged the gap.

[expatriate]

13. I've lived there a good part of my life

and what was in the photos of the levee being fixed was the levee itself broken, not the concrete floodwall on the top of the levee. The earth itself was washed away. That's why sandbags were necessary.

This is the beginning of trying to cover it all up and make it sound like Bush shits roses.

[peacetalksforall]

14. When you consider the record - I say the delay in action was to

allow the think tanks time to figure out a way to take advantage of situation, even opening up a file drawer from a previous think tank project focused on New Orleans. The goal was to figure out the best way to satisfy their voting base and a decision was made to satisfy their black and gay hating voting block .... and, if possible, to also take down the city.

I firmly believe that the towers were professionally destroyed with explosives. If I can believe that about the towers, I can believe that the levee could have been rigged. All the rest was icing.

Too wild? The scenario wouldn't be too wild for an author or screenwriter.

In any case, it is something I'm considering in a spare moment given the regard I hold for these people.

[blondeatlast]

21. When it can be attributed in print, I'll discuss it.

Until then, it's a rumor to me--and it smells distinctly of Shrubbery covering its sorry ass...

OP: I find it interesting you haven't come back to this thread.

[gizmo1979]

22. What was that gaping 300 yard area

with water rushing over it.