Thesis: as long as we elect 'centrist' politicians, we will continue to

[Mairead]

have serious problems, because 'centrist' politicians have no incentive to make it hard for the right wing to manufacture consent via their control of the media. And reinstatement of the 'fairness doctrine' will be no help as long as 'centrists' or hand-picked leftists are acceptable as 'opposition' to the right wing.

[FlashHarry]

1. The key problem with your thesis...

The problem with your argument is the word elect. Unless there is a sea change in the American political demographic, there is virtually no chance of a progressive-left or far-left politician being elected to national office.

Due to their huge constituencies, national politicians have to water down their views to appeal to the broadest possible demographic. The closest you'll get to a progressive in national office is a Representative in the House.

[lancemurdoch]

2. yes, but...

when talking about the economy, there are leading and lagging indicators - how the stock market does is a leading indicator of how the economy will do, and the unemployment rate lags behind the actual economy - the economy has to be doing good for a little while before unemployment goes down.<P>
In the same manner, I think politicians are concurrent with what's going on, or perhaps even lagging. Who is in power is really a reflection of who is in power in society. Look how (un)seriously Sharpton and Moseley- Braun are taken in the race. In many ways, that is simply a dismissal of all black's desire to have a seat at the table. I read a book after watching the author on C-SPAN recently "The Long Detour"...a lot of it is junk, but some things are interesting. He described the Democratic party as a coalition - women, blacks, labor and so forth. And you can even see the representatives as manifestations of that - Gephardt is virtually an embodiment of the labor movement in that respect.
<P>
The bottom line is I think in terms of production, popular movements produce electable candidates that get elected and try to help in the reproduction of the movement, not vice versa.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[RichM]

5. You don't understand the question (or even your own answer).

You seem to think that if you use words like "crap" and "fuck" a lot, that it strengthens your point. (It doesn't.)

Your answer, meanwhile, is nothing but the advice to leftists that if they want to win, they should become rightists.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. not quite

"the way the far left behaves pisses the average voter off" - nope, but I bet college hippies piss you off, that's a personal problem, and college hippies aren't the left.

There is one issue that the left loses on in the US - militaristic imperialism, which most Americans like as long as they don't have to see it and only few Americans are killed. Economically, Americans prefer very left leaning progressive programs, which is why the corporate media is so hostile and dismissive of any economic progressive ideas.

As soon as the left learns to deal with the military and police, they will start winning elections.

[Blue_Chill]

9. I disagree, you seem to be talking about your average democrat

Democrats need only to learn who to steal the security issues and their in. However that is not the left wingers of the party like DK etc etc. That would apply to the more centrist Dean, Clark, etc etc.

[Armstead]

4. Here's one answer

"The True Democrats Guide....for winning elections"
by Charles Kelly.

http://www.kellysite.net/

This is a kick-ass and enlightening website that spells out exactly why traditional core Liberal Democratic values are what is needed today, and is also a pragmatic key to "winning" in a political sense.

I stumbled across this website, and I must say it was like someone was reading my mind. Your mind too, if you are a LIBERAL (and/or Progressive) who really wants to see sanity restored to this country.

It's also worth visiting if you are a Centrist or even an "Anyone But Bush" Liberal. This site explains perfectly the problem many of us have with the stragegy and behavior of centrist Democrats (including Clinton). AND IT OFFERS A CLEAR, MAINSTREAM ALTERNATIVE.

The website's author is not a raving Greenie or a hardcore leftie radical. He is a retired management consultant who has seen how things work from the inside. And he knows this stuff, and explains it in ways that will bend your mind with a lot of "Aha" moments.

A picture of FDR and Harry Truman greet you at the website. That's where he is coming from.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. excellent site, check out what it says

Check out the three winning qualities that distinguished Roosevelt and Truman from too many (most?) of today's Democrats:

* They were willing to repeatedly and strongly refute the economic and social absurdities
of their opponents. They didn't let themselves get distracted from important issues and they let no outrageous attack go unchallenged. They recognized that educating the public was an important part of their leadership.

* They exposed right-wing conservatives to the public for being the demagogues they were.
Their political opponents were closet aristocrats who pretended to represent the interests of the general public, when they actually represented the interests of investors and the established wealthy.

* They were proactive leaders who believed in the objective analysis of problems and in
establishing priorities. They resisted the pressures of special interest groups and gave the
voting public confidence that they knew how to make government work for them.


I also want to plug http://www.conceptualguerilla.com another great read.

[Mairead]

10. Agree on the excellence, and on the 3 point message

That is exactly what we've been seeing and railing against -- most Dem politicians refuse to speak out strongly, name names, and kick butt. GOP politicians have no similar problem.

Responding to criticism of his confrontational style as mayor, Kucinich said, in a 1996 interview:

"It certainly would have been better if all discourse could have been conducted in a manner of the politesse of a social tea. It would have been lovely if someone could have been there at the appropriate moment to say: 'Pass the biscuits, please.' If you could hear people clucking: 'Here, here. Tut-tut. Cheerio' in the background. We're talking Cleveland." he roars. "It was raucous and it was contentious and it was confrontational and it was difficult! And welcome to democracy, warts and all!