If Judy Miller is really the leaker, isn't that bad news for us and good

[geek tragedy]

for Karl Rove and Libby?

It would mean that Rove and Libby really did find out because of a journalist, and could really weaken any criminal complaints against them. Especially if it was CIA folks who gave her the info.

I have no sympathy or compassion for that hag Judy Miller--she's a foul propagandist. But, trying to pin stuff on her actually helps the bigger bad guys in the WH.

[Teaser]

1. Rove and Libby aren't even

being investigated for the leak, knowledgeable sources say.

They're in trouble for perjury.

[geek tragedy]

14. Because they said they found out about it from a journalist. nt

[NNN0LHI]

22. Well we know that is a lie then

Because when Libby and Rove's lips are moving they are lying.

Don

[Teaser]

31. That's only one lie

that Fitzgerald is investigating.

[Al-CIAda]

48. The CIA analysts explicitly refuted any such 'absolution' last week.

Confirming the story, that is, providing legitimacy to its publication was/is the larger potential crime that they do not escape. It required a confirmation to be printed, hence the question/outing. Rove/Libby provided that confirmation.

[gratuitous]

2. Except that it doesn't get Rove and Libby off the hook

As government officials, they aren't supposed to reveal covert operatives no matter how they found out. So even if the Fucking Queen of All Iraq (as Miller has styled herself) told Rove and Libby about Valerie Plame, they weren't released from their job obligations so they could go running off to Bob "Douchebag for Liberty" Novak -- and who knows how many others -- to take petty political revenge against Joseph Wilson.

[Connie_Corleone]

3. Someone had to leak to Judy.

[geek tragedy]

13. The rumors being circulated are that her sources were in the CIA.

That scenario is very, very helpful to the administration.

[Bouncy Ball]

18. Riiiiiiight.

[NNN0LHI]

24. I wonder who would be passing along unsubstantiated rumors like that?

Any guesses? I bet it ends up being a real asshole. Who was it that told you if you don't mind me asking?

Don

[A-Schwarzenegger]

32. Excuse me while I fall off the turnip truck.

[Bouncy Ball]

53. ....

:rofl:

[meg]

4. YES!!!! YES!!!! YES!!!!

Not to mention that this is the story that Luskin had been peddling.

[benddem]

7. It doesn't matter

if someone passes secret info to a person with a secret or top secret clearance they must by law (and the oath they took) report that person. They must also refuse to verify the info to the person who told them. If she told them and they didn't report the breech...
they have committed a crime. But then this is the Bushit administration and lies, tyranny etc. seem to be the order of the day.

[geek tragedy]

16. Technically true, but it also weakens the case if a hack like Judy

Miller is going around town spreading this shit at cocktail parties.

I suspect this "pin the blame on the Judy" game comes from Rove sympathizers.

[meg]

39. Rove team

I suspect this "pin the blame on the Judy" game comes from Rove sympathizers.

Absolutely!!

[meg]

42. Your indefinite pronouns have lost me

if someone passes secret info to a person with a secret or top secret clearance they must by law (and the oath they took) report that person.

So, if Miller told Rove a top secret, then Rove must report Miller?

They must also refuse to verify the info to the person who told them. If she told them and they didn't report the breech...
they have committed a crime. But then this is the Bushit administration and lies, tyranny etc. seem to be the order of the day.

So, Rove commits a crime if he doesn't report Miller for telling him secrets?

[thinkingwoman]

5. no, because...

unless Judy Miller has security clearance and access to the info herself, she was leaked to by SOMEBODY.

I have no sympathy for Miller and I'm not fond of her, but these rumours that she might be THE source are planted by Rove sympathizers to take heat off of him, Scooter Libby, Cheney, Bush, Bolton, and the WH kitchen sink. Don't fall for it.

She is protecting somebody she fears more than jail. It is as simple as that.

[Nite Owl]

8. Thought I read that

that she was afraid of someone. Something about 'they have a lot of power'. No link in particular just thought I read that a couple of weeks ago.

[truth2power]

28. Right. Said she wouldn't testify because the govt is too powerful.

There was some dispute about whether she said exactly that, but one poster claimed there was video - her court statement.

I think she's afraid of cheney.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

52. The video is at CBS news. Here is the article, and on the right side

will be the video.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/06/national/main706715.shtml

[geek tragedy]

11. The theory is that she got her info from the CIA. That helps the Bushies.

Remember, part of their scheme was a pushback against not only Wilson, but the entire CIA.

Think about it.

[Bouncy Ball]

19. WHY would the CIA out one of their agents?

Answer me that.

And in your sentence about their pushback you attribute motive to Rove et al, NOT to the CIA.

You are contradicting yourself.

[AirAmFan]

29. No--IMHO, the most likely original source of the leak is JOHN BOLTON!

Bolton and Miller were tight for a long time. They had many neocon friends in common and a longstanding leaker-leakee relationship. For example, back in 2002, Bolton had a hissy-fit when Secretary Powell shut down his campaign to accuse Cuba of bioterrorism. The only MSM taker for this disinformation was: Judith Miller.

See also http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1663146&mesg_id=1663567 .

[thinkingwoman]

51. I have a hunch about Bolton

I think that's a good theory. It really sounds plausible.

[mtnester]

6. SOMEBODY had to tell SOMEONE

I mean, this information did not just RAIN out of the sky or fly out of someone's ass when they weren't LOOKING

[Kilroy003]

9. Sometimes you find out things by

pure accident.

Like if Judy was talking to her friend about the Wilson's and suddenly her friend says, "Y'know, my ex-boyfriend who was a janitor at the CIA building once told me that the guy who was sent to Niger used to show up once in a while to take Valerie, one of the agents at work, out the lunch and she'd come back all red in the face and breathing hard."

Then Ms. Miller puts two and two together, checks out a marriage certificate and voila, you have yourself some classified information.

I'm not defending her or the traitorous bastards in the WH...

But it could happen. IMO

[NNN0LHI]

15. Then she should just say so and be out of jail then

Obviously the scenario you suggest is not the case or she would have.

Don

[longship]

10. ROFL

:spray: :rofl:

[geek tragedy]

12. The point is that it makes it harder to pin perjury on Rove and Libby

if there really was a journalist out there leaking stuff.

It also completely undermines the criminal case if people in the CIA were leaking shit about their own agent.

[Bouncy Ball]

17. Motive.

What motive would the journalist have had?

What motive did Rove et al have?



Oh and nice try, geek.

[Junkdrawer]

20. Judy gives many, many indications of not being your usual "reporter"...

A lot of folks here think she IS CIA, as in rogue CIA, as in Operation Mockingbird CIA, as in Judy, Karl and Libby all working for the same boss.

Now, who's the boss is anybody's guess, but Dick Cheney's name has been dropped a few times in this regard.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. Which brings us right back to the bush administration.

[AtomicKitten]

23. Ms. Miller is a BushCo Butt-Kisser

I believe she is protecting WH sources, but Rove and Libby are in deep. Prosecutors have come down pretty hard on people that divulge CIA sensitive material and it's hard to believe they would skate on that, but then again most of the WH type prosecutions end up being for perjury or obstruction of justice type things. Regardless, I hope both Mr. Rove and Mr. Libby become Big Buck's wife in prison real soon.

[qanda]

25. Where is this coming from?

Did I miss something?

[Jersey Devil]

26. Thanks for asking

I was wondering the same thing.

[geek tragedy]

27. Read about it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4219054

Especially the bottom half of the first post

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. Oh, blogulation, well, case closed.

[geek tragedy]

35. I'm not buying it either. Just saying that we should be careful about

which memes we push.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

36. Which meme are *we* pushing?

[geek tragedy]

37. The one that got all the buzz yesterday was the "Judy Miller did it"

meme. It's tempting to push that because Miller is such a dishonest rightwing propagandizing hag.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

38. I'm confussled. Isnt that what this/your thread is "pushing"??

Arent you right here right now "pushing" the "rumor"
from "speculation" on a "blog" that "Judy Miller did it"?
Help me.

[geek tragedy]

43. No, I'm trying to get us to take a closer look at it and examine

what the motives behind and implications of it may be.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

47. What is "it"? You know what? Never mind. Good luck

with whatever it is you're trying to do/say.
The thread is a blurry echo of loopy speculation
on a blog.

[Modem Butterfly]

30. Judy Miller was in so good at the White House...

...she probably heard it from them, which would explain why she's in jail right now.

And in any event, revealing classified info is still a big no-no. If 200 people know a classified secret, such as the name of a covert operative, and person #137 tells #201, #137 will go to jail, the other 199 don't enter into it at all.

[julialnyc]

34. Rove said he learned from Novak

N/T

[Binka]

44. Oh Good Fucking Jesus

Rove does not get info from reporters he feeds them that shit. This entire thing in my opinion leads to Cheney. End of my rant. Cheney. Mark my words.

[julialnyc]

46. of course I agree with you

but the post asked if Judy Miller was the "leaker" to Rove. Of course I know what Rove was saying and that he was planting information. I was trying to say that I don't think Rove is the one Judy Miller is protecting (although he is of course involved). I agree it probably is Cheney (I also wonder where Wolfowitz is during these hearings).

[chill_wind]

40. One leaker among many in a chain

And .. I think you can't really talk about Judy Miller without talking about Chalabi and the Pentagon, and I think you can't talk about her and the Pentagon without talking about her special association with Feith's Office of Special Plans in particular. Or so suggests this good background piece here:

The Source of the Trouble
Pulitzer Prize winner Judith Miller’s series of exclusives about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq—courtesy of the now-notorious Ahmad Chalabi—helped the New York Times keep up with the competition and the Bush administration bolster the case for war. (5 page feature)

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/media/features/9226/index.html

I think this link has been circulated here before, but it's a gotta read, IMHO.

She is a very significant part of the chain, it's fair to assume, but it is a multi-linked chain. And Rove still has plenty of problems within his own alignment along it.

I keep in mind always a lot of John Dean's writings, wherein he suggests that even if Rove were not proven a leaker, he is stlll part of a concerted effort (conspiracy) and could be facing other charges aside from any under IIPA and perjury-- ie other conspiracy statutes.
"Wilson's wife is fair game" stuff.

IANAL, but the longer this goes, the more that emerges, the more I think there could be plenty of assorted indictments to go around and remain very hopeful.

Still, we can expect much, MUCH more of a furiously intensive campaign of lies and dysinfo between now and October. It will get louder and crazier-- we probably haven't seen anything yet. The RW internet crazies were totally blind-sided from their denialist sleep on this matter just a few weeks ago. You can be sure, with the incredible stakes involved here, that they are now drilling down very very hard 24/7 right now for every bit of propaganda they can find.

Every day that goes by that we don't have a new leading detail or revelation is one they will fully seize and fill the void. It's a long time between now and October. And don't forget the resources of the swiftvet type operatives. I could see them getting totally immersed in something very foul behind the scenes. The wingers haven't even gotten started, I fear.

[Blue_Roses]

54. excellent piece and very illuminating

:thumbsup:

[Bridget Burke]

41. Which "us" are you talking about?

Paleface....

[geek tragedy]

45. People who want to see Bush's junta taken down. eom

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Are you part of that "us"? I've seen very few, if any, posts from you....

...to indicate that you have any issues with the NeoCons.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[bpilgrim]

50. lol - too funny

Plame's Identity Marked As Secret
Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, ... 2003, as he headed to Africa for a trip with President Bush aboard Air Force One. Plame ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517_pf.html

:tinfoilhat:

peace