Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The more I see this NeoCon thing unfolding

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:09 PM
Original message
The more I see this NeoCon thing unfolding
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 09:12 PM by tinfoilinfor2005
the better I'm starting the understand the power that Hitler had over so many of the German people. When I was younger it used to frustrate me because I couldn't imagine how so many people could allow themselves to buy into that. But ten or twenty years ago I would never have imagined half of our country being seduced by men with such destructive goals that run completely against the grain of what this country was founded on. I'm starting to understand that this truly can happen anywhere. But I'm still not sure exactly why, or why some of us manage to keep our eyes open and not succumb to it.

I realize that I'm not the brightest bulb around, so can someone try to explain this to me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. There's a lot more people with their eyes open because it happened before
There's a saying in Texas...fool me once, shame on... shame on... shame on you...uh... full me can't get fooled again!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I Believe It Was Planned...
Planned by many in power now. PNAC... for starters. And lots of investors to fund it. Ever see the media so partisan before. One sided?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dave502d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. He sure make it easy to forgive the German people of WW2.n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
halsaxby Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly.
When I was younger and I would read WWII history, I never understood how the German people got roped into Nazism. Hitler outlined what he planned to do in Mein Kampf, well before he did it. I had figured that Hitler's popularity was due to the fact that he brought Germany out of the Depression and turned it into an economic powerhouse.

What is bizarre about the our current situation is that the NeoCons are actually destroying the economy. I believe that much of it has to do with the fact that public education has been systematically dumbed down for the last 30 years.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niallmac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I agree. None of this is really possible without a public education that
teaches lock step thinking. Questioning an educational offering is grounds for punishment. Non conformity is suspect. History is what we say it is and we dare you to look further. I get real whacko body snatcher paranoid when I see the demonization of independent thought in our schools and in media/madison avenue drivel. The lowest common denominator rules. Ever travel in Europe and see how people actually talk about politics on the trains etc? America is boring and scary to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Most Of The People Who Were Deluded Are Still Deluded
Look, not much has really changed. The same people who do not like the war still like George. They dislike every thing he stands for if you ask them about issue after issue but they still don't believe he lied to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Madness of Bush: Reflection of Our Collective Psychosis
THE MADNESS OF GEORGE W. BUSH:
A REFLECTION OF OUR COLLECTIVE PSYCHOSIS
by Paul Levy

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/georgew.html

George W. Bush is ill. He has a psycho-spiritual dis-ease of the soul, a sickness that is endemic to our culture and symptomatic of the times we live in. It’s an illness that has been with us since time immemorial. Because it’s an illness that's in the soul of all of humanity, it pervades the field and is in all of us in potential at any moment, which makes it especially hard to diagnose. Bush's malady is quite different from schizophrenia, for example, in which all the different parts of the personality are fragmented and not connected to each other, resulting in a state of internal chaos. As compared to the dis-order of the schizophrenic, Bush can sound quite coherent and can appear like such a "regular," normal guy, which makes the syndrome he is suffering from very hard to recognize. This is because the healthy parts of his personality have been co-opted by the pathological aspect, which drafts them into its service. Because of the way the personality self-organizes an outer display of coherence around a pathogenic core, I would like to name Bush's illness ‘malignant egophrenic (as compared to schizophrenic) disease,’ or ‘ME disorder,’ for short. If ME disorder goes unrecognized and is not contained, it can be very destructive, particularly if the person is in a position of power.

In much the same way that a child's psychology cannot be understood without looking at the family system he or she is a part of, George Bush does not exist in isolation. We can view Bush and his entire Administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, etc), as well as the corporate, military industrial complex that they are co-dependently enmeshed with, the media that they control, the voters that support them, and ourselves as well, as interconnected parts of a whole system, or a "field." Instead of relating to any part of this field as an isolated entity, it’s important to contemplate the entire interdependent field as the ‘medium’ though which malignant egophrenia manifests and propagates itself. ME disease is a field phenomenon, and needs to be contemplated as such. Bush's sickness is our own.

THE DISEASE IS NON-LOCAL

Being a field phenomenon, malignant egophrenia is non-local in nature, which means that it is not bound by the limitations of time or space. Being non-local, this disease pervades and underlies the entire field and can therefore manifest anywhere, through anyone and at any moment. The disease's non-local nature makes the question of who has the disease irrelevant, as we all have it in potential. It is more a question of whether or not we are aware of our susceptibility to fall prey to the disease. This awareness itself serves as an immunization that protects us from the pernicious effects of the illness, thereby allowing us to be of genuine help to others.

Bush, like all of us, is both a manifestation of this deeper field and simultaneously an agent effecting this field. He’s become so fully taken over by the disease, all the while not suspecting a thing, that he’s become a "carrier" for this deadly disease, thus infecting the field around him. He’s become a portal through which the field around him "warps" in such a way as to feed and support his pathogenic process. A non-local, reciprocally co-arising and interdependent field of unconscious denial and cover-up gets constellated around Bush to enable and protect his pathology. People who support Bush are actually complicit with and enabling Bush’s madness in a co-dependent, self-reinforcing feedback loop that is ‘closed,’ which is to say it is insular and not open to any feedback from the ‘real’ world.

full article at above link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I never ever saw him as a regular normal guy...
he screamed "dumb and dangerous" from the minute I laid eyes on him.
I think the best description I ever heard was years ago when Ron Reagan said "I remember George Bush very well from when my dad was in Office. He used to be a mean drunk. Now he doesn't drink anymore."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. He does seem to be a nasty guy.
His one-finger salute to the press the other day is just the latest example. What a jerk.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's not half--IMHO
I think more people are aware of what's going on that we are able to see because the media does not echo people's sentiments. They only blast what they want to be known.

While people are aware, most are not as motivated or intelligent or available (due to making ends meet) to do something about their awareness.

While I think more people than we know are aware, there are still way too many who truly believe that what this misadministration is doing is right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. I can't tell you other than my husband watches Faux news...
He is an avid and unerving follower of this administration without question and will bellow like a bull when called on his unfailing faith that all is well in neverland....I seriously think he has been brainwashed by televised news...if some don't believe such to be rediculous, think again, I see it first hand...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I certainly agree with that. I have friends and relatives
who watch only faux news and they all spout the same language and even get the same looks on their faces. It's eery. And they just look right through you when you bring up anything contrary to the text they all follow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Your right about the looks, I forgot that, it is definately eerie...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Denial of *Supporters and The Bush Cult (depth psych on neo-con facism)
WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?
by Paul Levy
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushsupporters.html

To quote Stanley Hilton, Bob Dole’s former chief of staff and a long-time Republican, “George Bush makes Benedict Arnold look like a patriot. He makes Benedict Arnold look like George Washington. I mean that’s what we have- a criminal and traitor sitting in the White House pretending he is a patriot, wrapping himself in the flag.” The evidence of Bush and Company’s corruptness and duplicity is beyond overwhelming, and it is literally everywhere, staring us in the face. Why are so many people looking away and not noticing? I find myself no longer interested in trying to convince anyone of what a madman, criminal and traitor Bush is, though it’s not for lack of trying. What I find more fruitful is to contemplate why people who are supporting Bush are both unwilling and seemingly unable to see the evil that is playing out through him. People who follow Bush are in denial about something that to the overwhelming majority of the world could not be more obvious.

The denial of people who support Bush is a form of blindness. People who support Bush are refusing to look at what is right in front of their eyes, an evil that they themselves are complicit in and participating in by their denial. People who are following Bush are acting out of their unconscious. It is as if they have fallen asleep and are dreaming, entranced by their own projections. It is as if they are bewitched, having fallen under a spell. They are living in what John Kerry calls “a fantasy world of spin,” ignoring and oblivious to any facts that contradict their worldview. It is exactly like they are hypnotized, like they are brainwashed. People who follow Bush are behaving exactly like members of a cult who have blindly and unquestioningly given away their power to their leader. They have left behind their critical thinking, dis-connecting from their capacity to discern truth from fiction. Not to mention selling their soul in the bargain. People who support Bush are suffering from a collective psychosis. Why else would they be supporting a madman for President? It is shattering to look in the mirror and see that we, as a people, have gone temporarily mad.

There is a psychic epidemic manifesting in our country right now, and millions of people in our populace have fallen prey to it. There is no sense pretending otherwise. It is of the most profound importance that we notice and understand the psychological nature of the collective malady that we, as a people, are suffering from. Understanding the psychological nature of our illness gives us insight into how to treat it.

By looking away from what Bush is doing and naively supporting him, people are complicit in and feeding Bush’s malignant psychosis. There is something about the depth of depravity, though, that is enacting itself through the Axis of Evil represented by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove and others that is so dark that it induces in some of us a tendency to pretend that it isn’t really happening. The malevolent energy that is playing itself out through Bush is very hard to look at. People look away, as it is too horrific. The intensity of the evil provokes people to rationalize it, to justify it, to explain it away. It triggers a tendency in people to fall asleep. We like to imagine that people couldn’t be THAT corrupt, THAT two-faced, THAT evil. It is truly shocking to see the depth of depravity a human being can fall into. It is doubly shocking when we realize that these criminally insane individuals control the most powerful nation on earth.

THE BUSH CULT
by Paul Levy
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushcult.html

It is a shattering experience to see through our imaginary projections and recognize that someone we thought was leading and protecting us does not have our best interest at heart. People who support Mr. George Bush resist and turn away from the irrefutable and readily available evidence that Bush is anything but a good leader, as if they are in denial with a capital D. Bush is saying one thing and doing totally the opposite, and many people are simply in denial of this and look away. It is truly as if people who support Bush are not only in denial, but are actually refusing to look and hence, blind to what to most of the world is very obvious. It is as if people who support Bush are under a hypnotic spell, and are suffering from a form of collective brainwashing. People who support Bush in his pathology are exhibiting nothing other than the groupthink of cultic behavior.

Followers of a cult unquestioningly give their power away to their leader’s version of reality. People in a cult have dis-connected from their discerning wisdom, which is the ability to discriminate between the opposites, between truth and lies, between good and evil. In a cult, any sort of reflection of the leader’s unconscious shadow is not only not allowed, but is severely punished. The cult leader is typically insulated from people who disagree with him, not even wanting to come in contact and have any connection with people who have a different point of view. People in a cult exhibit complete and total denial with regard to any evidence that contradicts the agreed upon belief of the cult. This perfectly describes people who are following Bush as their leader. People who follow Bush are completely in denial about his truly criminal behavior. People who belong to a cult always get hooked through their unconscious fear and blind spot. The cult members’ relationship with each other is based on mutual unconsciousness, as they reciprocally reinforce each other’s denial and illusion. In a cult, there is always some form of mind-control, such as the Bush Administration’s control and manipulation of the media. “Staying on message” is the typical communication style within a cult. The cult leader plays with people’s fears so as to gain their trust and control them, which is a process that is not based on love but on power over others.

There are always aspects of a cult that are kept hidden and secret, which is the mechanism that keeps its hierarchical power in place. In a cult, this inequality of power ensures that a form of abuse always gets unconsciously acted out. In a cult, the members identify with only one side of an inherently two-sided polarity, projecting out the marginalized shadow. Hence, people who disagree with the cult are seen to have fallen under the spell of the Devil. Members of a cult are convinced of the rightness of their point of view, which they consider non-negotiable. Hence, there is no room for the open dialogue and debate which is at the core of a true democracy. Cults will even suppress and distort science to serve their ends, just like the Bush Administration is doing for partisan political ends. And the cult leader is (arche)typically either identified with God or feels he has a special relationship with God. Cult leaders and their followers see themselves as agents of apocalyptic, end-time scenarios, which is one of the more disturbing aspects of Bush and his supporters from the religious right.

At their root, cults are based on a mass, collective unconsciousness which feeds and reinforces itself. The cult is of the nature of an infinitely-perpetuating negative feedback loop, fueled by its members’ (“the elect”) unwillingness and resistance to self-reflect, look in the mirror and see what they are doing. Because it is so insular and unable to integrate any reflections from the outside, a cult always becomes self-destructive and ultimately destroys itself. This is why it is an extremely dangerous situation if Bush and his cultic followers take over our country, as it will create endless, unnecessary suffering for all of us. Bush might not just take down our country but our very planet as well. Another name for cults is collective psychosis.

more articles at "Awaken In the Dream"
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/indexx.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. I suspect that those of us who have kept our eyes open ...
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 09:30 PM by BattyDem
have always been curious people. We like to have as much information as possible so that we can make informed decisions. We maintain a healthy amount of skepticism, so we don't believe everything we're told and we require facts to back up any information we hear. We're not threatened by change and we're not afraid to be proven wrong. We welcome the opportunity to learn and grow.

Those who have closed their eyes to the NeoCon agenda have probably lived their entire lives with closed eyes ... and closed minds. They form opinions BEFORE getting the facts. They believe any statement that supports their beliefs, regardless of the source and if they hear something contradictory, they simply ignore it or claim it isn't true - without ever looking in to it. They are afraid to be proven wrong because it would mean they would have to change their beliefs and/or admit that they don't know everything.


I personally believe that intelligence has a lot to do with it. Informed people are always willing to ask questions and learn more. Not knowing something isn't a "failure" - it's an "opportunity" to grow as a human being. Uninformed people tend to feel threatened when they're confronted with things they don't know ... at least that's been my experience with them.


I have no data to back up any of this - it's just a personal observation. Take it for what it's worth. :-)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I believe you're right
But where is the tipping point? And in which direction will we tip? Someone on DU said yesterday that they believed bush could eat live babies on tv and get away with it. Yes, it's an extreme example, but my point is, just how far can he (they) go before it tips? And if we can't get it to tip in our direction, where do we go from there? If the Nazis had succeeded, I could never have lived there, and I'm certain I wouldn't want to live here under a neocon/nazi/facist regime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silvershadow Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. very well said. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
13. How Hitler did it
I studied this in social psych and socilogy classes. Also on my own and whenever I had to write a paper for sociology.

Hitler used the following:
1. State a problem(s).
2. Find a group(s) that isn't well liked.
3. Blame that group(s) by using examples that may not exist.
4. Provide a clear and excellent vision for the future.
5. Increase nationalism by linking prefered groups to the nation.
6. Point how great the nation was in the past.
7. Associate current plans to recreate the nation as it "was" in the past.
8. Make changes oh so slowly.
9. If anyone protested, label them traitors/anti-nation/communists/godless.
10. Most important, have a charismatic leader.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blue northern Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. 'this Neo-con thing' is also fascist
Fascism is insidious.
In order for it to grow, you need a culture of fear, suspicion, resentment and entitlement among the general population.
You also need a state religion and powerful corporations closly tied to government.
Mistrust of outsiders, xenophobia, is crucial.
The less of these traits you share, the less susceptible you are to falling under fascism's spell.
I too am gaining more of an understanding of events in fascist Germany last century from watching the PNAC unfold and fascism taking root in the US, but I'd rather not.
:scared:
It's not too late.
People on DU are trying to stop it.
I'm up here in Canada cheering you all on and doing what I can to keep the neocons' relations up here at bay.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thank you Blue!
bush may not know where Canada is at, but I sure do, and I appreciate your support.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC