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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:11 AM
Original message
Lack of Empathy ....
"Many of the characteristics displayed by psychopaths -- especially their egocentricity, lack of remorese, shallow emotions, and deceitfulness -- are closely associated with a profound lack of empathy (an ability to construct a mental and emotional 'facsimile' of another person). They seem unable to 'get into the skin' or to 'walk in the shoes' of others, except in a purely intellectual sense. The feelings of other people are of no concerns to psychopaths."
-- "Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among us"; Dr. Robert Hare; Pocket Books; 1993; page 44


Count the number of times Bush uses the word "I" in even just the first two sentences of this morning's talk. The entire speech focused on his wants and needs.
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just finished reading that book.
I used to work at Borders and spotted the book just after I'd broken up with a guy whom I realized was clearly a psychopath. I put of reading the book and then forgot about it until Bush came on the scene. That just piqued my interest all over again.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's a great book. n/t
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm glad I read it but...
...I was a little disappointed with it. It was a bit more pop-psychology than I thought it would be. All those references to Hollywood movies and true crime books really got on my nerves after awhile. However, I recognized my ex in Hare's description of the psychopath. And, of course, I recognized just about everyone in the Bush administration in it also.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. More people are
familiar with hollywood movies than with real life examples. He speaks in the language people understand. The book was made for the general public. Hare has authored numerous other things you might prefer. He is recognized as the leading expert in the field.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. I've read that book, and agree with you 100 pct. Have always thought
that he fits the characteristics. Someone posted a story about him meeting families of the fallen heroes from the illicit war in Iraq. The mothers description of him fit perfectly.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. He is a study
in sociopathy.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. psychopathy
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 09:26 AM by WinkyDink
I, too, have read that book (thought it applied to a former boss. Heh.).
IMO, there IS NO DOUBT that Bush is a psychopath (aka, sociopath).
He said "I" this a.m. referring to his own "resolve", as if somehow that makes him brave. He used the condescending term "folks" to refer to the victims. He also used the expression "lost life" (one of his faves, and a peculiar locution it is), as if lives were like wallets, to get misplaced now and then.
And of course, the self-conscious swagger. I watched as he walked away; does anyone else walk with their hands perpendicular to their sides, palms out, facing backwards? Truly and seriously disturbed.
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indy_azcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Welcome to DU WinkyDink!
:hi:

One of the striking analyses I saw around here is that he almost seems pissed that it didn't happen here, becuase he'd rather be in control. He doesn't like playing Blair's #2.
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mr_hat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And that retreat to "tv screens." Why is terra >
always on tv screens for him?
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. spot on observations
and welcome to DU
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Doesn't it amaze you how many people DON"T see it?
palms out, facing backwards!


Welcome WinkyDink :hi:
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. You nailed it
I also knew and had to work with a true sociopath and when Bush came on the scene I had an immediate and powerful feeling of recognition and revulsion. The tough act is just that too, they're terrified of harm coming to them but feel no compunction about being the cause of harm to others.

Welcome! :hi:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. Did You See HIM In The Background As He Had To Take
second seat and listen to another head of state??? It was almost as if he was "crushed" that he couldn't be front & center!!!

And then when he did make a comment, yes so many of you here are soooooooooooo correct, it was right back to the I,I,I,I & Me, Me, Me Me!

I have never felt more IRE toward an administration in my ENTIRE LIFE!!!

BTW, welcome, welcome to DU!! And as I said to another newcomer this AM.... we NEED you NOW!!!

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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. That was one of the most stunning things to me in 2000
The moment Bush slid into office, practically every word out of his mouth was, "I want," "I believe," "I'm going to," the infamous, "...as long as I'm the dictator..." -- it was stunning then to hear an American "president" reduce the office to his own petty desires and wishes, and to initially observe he really does believe he is not at all accountable to the citizens of this country.

Now, five years later, we all automatically tune him out anyway, but still it is surreal that "the leader of the free world" is psychologically incapable of speaking in terms no broader than "me, myself and I" -- and is obviously mentally, emotionally, psychologically -- whatever the diagnosis is -- disturbed.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. and "my country" "my government"
he has always said that and it creeps me out!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. Indeed. He made this tragedy all about HIM.
He's such a vile piece of shit. :grr:
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. "The entire speech focused on his wants and needs."
That has been the case since day one! To Bush, America really is "HIS" Country!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. There Has Been A Lot Of Talk
here and elsewhere, for the last couple of years about him being on meds. And every time I see his face bruised and scratched, hear about him falling off yet another bike, or having trouble eating a pretzel, I always wonder, what's wrong with him? Is there any correlation between all this and mental dysfunction?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
15. Pathological Narcissist ... with amplified sociopathic attributes.
Complete absence of empathy coupled with obsessive personal exploitation of any event. The man belongs in prison, in a padded cell, for the rest of his malignant life.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Simplified Synopsis
He thinks it's ALL about him!
The Professor
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yep. The tree doesn't fall in the forest without it being about him.
Every event and any act or remark by another person only has meaning to him when it's ABOUT him. The entire Universe has existence only as an extension of his infantile ego.

He's a mini-God ... an adherent of a belief system that all of Nature is an extension of His Existence. Every human choice is meaningful only in the sense of being Sinful or Godly -- a Narcissistic God who's merely a projection of a horrendously atrophied and infantile emotional development.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Are You Saying He's Wrong?
I'm shocked, SHOCKED(!) to see you state that. Now, i have to go rethink everything.

Hmmm. So, Silverspoon is not the raison d'etre for the existence of everything. Man, this is confusing.

See what you've done now?!?!?!?!?
The Professor
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Well, how can it be about HIM ...
... when I know it's really all about ME?? :silly: :dunce: :evilgrin:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. The whole lot of them are sociopathic, arrogant sociopaths.
Bush can't even feign compassion. He is a void, a black hole. But, observing Cheney, Rummy, Pearl and the rest of that cabal, their eyes are just,...empty. They have dark interiors.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
22. I have one problem with Dr. Hare's definition
and a correlation to the weed. Is it even possible for the weed to achieve this "except in a purely intellectual sense"? :shrug:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I thought as I typed it
that someonewould comment on that. It doesn't imply intelligence; a psychopath is no more likely to be intelligent than the general population is. It means that they try to pretend they feel the emotions. Let me quote a subject from page 33 of the book, who was serving time for kidnapping, rape, and extortion:

"Do I care about other people? That's a tough one. But, yeah, I guess I really do ... but I don't let my feelings get in the way. I mean, I'm as warm and caring as the next guy, but let's face it, everybody is trying to screw you .... You've got to look out for yourself, park your feelings. Say you need something, or someone messes with you .... maybe tries to rip you off ... you take care of it... do whatever needs to be done .... Do I feel bad if I have hurt someone? Yeah, sometimes. But mostly it's like .... uh .... (laughs) .... how did you feel the last time you squashed a bug?"

Now, remember this answer was in response to the simple question "Do you care about others?" If we count the self-references (in his manner of speaking, both "I" and "you" refer to himself), there are 18 times in ten sentences, versus 6 references to others (including "a bug").

So he intellectually attempted to indicate he knows what it means to care about others. But he exposed himself of being incapable of doing so.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Oh, so you knew I was out here, just waiting to make the comment!
For me, the word intelligence & the weed just don't go together and I couldn't beyond that mental block. I need to remember that "intelligence" can mean limited intelligence, even the lowest form of mammal has some intelligence. ;-)

Thanks for the further explanation. :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I had the choice
of using the full quote and risking the possibility people would think that intelligence was being attributed to the fellow, or editing.

The lowest form of mammal may have more intelligence; truly, he seems to be going on "instinct." I'll bet he's used that word to describe his actions in the past, not realizing how accurate it is. He uses the reptilian brain
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. Psychopaths
Are one of the stumbling block to our freedom and peace The other is people who by-stand,enable and cannot deal with cognitive dissonance and would rather be manipulated than face facts of what psychopaths do to us all simply because they can get away with it,because we let them.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
30. I've dealt with a sociopath/psychopath in my personal life...
and well recognize the signs. Once people clearly catch on to the behaviors, it's easier to understand why * does the things he does. What a wake up call it is...
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