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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:30 AM
Original message
A plea from London
Can people please stop manipulating the tragedy here for political gain just for one day?

People are dying in twisted wrecks under London desperate to be rescued. People are dying and shaken all over this city. Please think of them and what they're going through, rather than politics.

Just for today. Please.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed, we love you and are glad that you are ok.
It's over right? No more bombs have gone off have they?
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. It looks like it's over, no further events reported. n/t
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I'm glad to hear it, I'll be even happier when I know for sure that my
friend is ok.

You take care, thanks for filling us in.

Big hug, we're all with you in spirit.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. My friend in not in London right now! Thank god!
She's in Oxford, I wish that others were as lucky.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Good news
Though I think the worst is over. . . now to rescue operations and the aftermath.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Your right
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 AM by fujiyama
This is just awful. A despicable crime against innocent people. My condolence are with the British people (I have relatives there as well). There will be plenty of time to find out who is responsible (though this knee jerk MIHOP attitude with many will unfortunately prevent much clear thinking).

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Can we not have that discussion, please?
there is a time, and a place, and this is neither. Please.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. No. This is *PRECISELY* the time and place.
> Can we not have that discussion, please?

No. This is *PRECISELY* the time and place.

This is blowback, plain and simple.

This is a counter-attack.

Did you think only brown people would be killed in this war? Or
people far away from us in remote lands? People we would never
know so didn't give two shits about?

This is the reality that Bush and Blair have brought us.

Get used to it; it's goiing to be with us for a long, long time
to come.

Tesha
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Ok, I tried being polite
or rather I will still try, but you are making it difficult. I don't need a lecture on anti-imperialism from anyone on this board, and I especially don't need a lecture on the 'innocence' of commuters in London. By the same token, we Serbs were all guilty for Milosevic, so when Britain and the US bombed the shit out of us in '99 the civilian deaths were 'non-innocent'. Or I could pick any other example I like. I knew full well that this sort of thing would occur, that is why I opposed the war, but it takes an exceptional self-righteousness to claim that the masses of London (who btw. delivered some of the biggest anti-war votes in the last election if you were following) are somehow of dubious innocence. Blair, the cabinet at the time of going to war, the MPs who voted for war, they are guilty for Iraq. Not rush-hour commuters in London.

I have been used to the reality of this shit for a long long time - I just haven't allowed it to erode my compassion for other human beings.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
67. actually factually speaking,I didn't....
I live in an overwhelmingly blue state...Maryland....I could have voted for Mickey Mouse and Gore would still have won the state.

The rabble speaks...

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #45
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
84. Brilliant statment.
:eyes:

You do realise that even if Kerry was elected these attacks may have happened? What a sick, self-righteous statement.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
50. Do you think only white people died in the terrorist attacks?
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:03 AM by fujiyama
And even if it was, how does this justify killing civilians?

Your attitude is sickening.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. No, war is sickening. My attitude is realistic.
Just since Oil War I (in 1991), the British and the Americans
have been responsible for *HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS* of Iraqi deaths.
Did no one think this would eventually blow back at us?

So far, even when you add all up all the terrorist attacks in the
West, the score is still vastly tilted in our favor. A few thousand
westerners dead versus hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

(And we could step back farther in time and discuss other incidents
such as the Shah of Iran...)

Tesha
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Yes, but that is not what you said, is it now?
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:09 AM by Vladimir
you said the commuters were of questionable innocence - well that works both ways. No one here is arguing that we haven't comitted attrocities which dwarf today's attack many times over, just that your preposterous insinuation vis-a-vis the innocence of the London public is... well, preposterous.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #54
69. Yes but do you have to choose now
to rub the matter in any one's face.

back the hell up, tomorrow's another day. If you can't control you fingers, then be respectful and stay out of the threads pertaining to London. I think that is all anyone is asking.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #54
97. So you think Iraqis perpetrated these attacks? (n/t)
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
60. I agree this is a war
but you seem to be short sighted. It did not begin with the 2003 Invasion of Iraq or on September 11, 2001, nor was it brought to us by Bush and Blair. al-Qaeda or groups associated with al-Qaeda have been credited with:

-February 26, 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

-1994 plot to kill Pope John Paul II during a visit to Manila.

-1995 plan to blow up 12 transpacific flights of U.S. commercial airliners.

-1995 plan to kill President Bill Clinton on a visit to the Philippines.

-A series of incidents in Saudi Arabia against U.S. targets from 1995 to 1996.

-August 7, 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.

-1999 plot to set off a bomb at Los Angeles International Airport.

-October 12, 2000 U.S.S. Cole bombing in Aden, Yemen killing 17 crew members and wounding 39.

-September 11, 2001, hijacking attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

-2001 attempt by Richard Reid to explode a shoe bomb on a transatlantic flight.

-April 2002 explosion of a fuel tanker outside a synagogue in Tunisia.

-October 2002 attack on a French tanker off the coast of Yemen Several spring 2002 bombings in Pakistan.

-October 12, 2002 nightclub bombing in Bali, Indonesia.

-November 2002 car bomb attack and a failed attempt to shoot down an Israeli jetliner with shoulder-fired missiles, both in Mombasa, Kenya.

-May 12, 2003 car bomb attacks on three residential compounds in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

-March 11, 2005 Madrid Bombings
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #60
111. Now look back to Oil War I
...in 1991. And the Shah of Iran. And the British partitioning of
Palestine. Don't just stop at 1993 because it was convenient for
your argument.

Tesha
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #29
48. As far as I'm concerned
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:56 AM by fujiyama
no one deserves to be killed like this whether they are Iraqi or British or American - your statement is disgusting and heartless.

I have relatives there and they didn't vote for Blair or support this war so take your self righteous crap elsewhere.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed.
I'm worried about some cousins of mine who live there.I'm hoping they're OK; will email them when I get to work (can't believe I don't have their email address at home).

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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. Agreed
all of this is not helping. My thoughts and prayers to London
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CrazyForKucinich Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. The question everyone asks is "Why?"
That is a natural reaction...which in 99.9% of us will lead us to politics, world events, and the leaders who didn't do enough to stop the tragedy from happening in the first place or who in some cases even egged on the people who committed the act to do the act.

I think politics is fair game today. Blair does not deserve a day off from the heat. This is his mess.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. No, the reaction is sick and some of the threads I have seen are sick too
Some conspiracy theorists have nothing to do on DU.
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CrazyForKucinich Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. So what? There's lots of sick things in the world
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 06:44 AM by CrazyForKucinich
Do you want to censor them all? Give me a break. If the "theories" are so far out there, as you claim...I'm sure the topics will sink like the Titanic.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. It Would Be Nice If It Worked That Way, Sir
But it does not. The lighter the weight of the thought, the higher it rises....
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. There's no conspiracy here, just a war.
Did no one think that the enemy might invade right back at us? Will
anyone really be surprised when Washington someday disappears in a
nuclear explosion and Al Qaida lays claim to it?

Tesha
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. I was talking about some early threads saying that it was done
to help Bush or divert the attention from Rove or other inept things like that.

For the rest, nothing justifies these attacks anymore than the attacks in Iraq. We probably do agree on the why, but an explanation will never be an excuse for me.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. think about what you just wrote....
if it is a war with enemies, as you've stated...then we're perfectly justified in defending ourselves. You're over simplifying and picking the worst time to lay blame for this situation...sometimes we need to learn "when" to behave both humanely and politely.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. We'd be justified if they "started it". They didn't.
Hint: The 9/11 WTC bombing wasn't a "first strike".
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
62. So who started it and when? (n/t)
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CrazyForKucinich Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. Who cares about the past?
Let's focus on the Peace treaty that needs to be signed with Al Qaeda and other groups that hate America. If these dumbasses would actually sit down and talk about their problems with each other...maybe a resolution could be struck. Hell, even if they don't think Al Qaeda will agree...at least put out the offer.

What Would Picard Do?
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Talk about an "anti-historian"
Did you ever hear the quote "those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it"?

Who's to say all the splinter groups will honor any "peace treaty" signed? al-Qaeda is not a Nation that can enforce it's own treaties.

al-Qaeda wants the US to withdraw all support for Israel and pull completely out of the ME. That is the only outcome they have stated as being acceptable.

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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #66
79. Someone Here, Mr. Vega
Used to have a signature line reading: "History does not repeat itself. It lays a club upside your head and yells, 'Weren't you listening the first time?'"
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GeekMonkey Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #66
95. and doing the right thing should not be avoided
simply because its what the terrorists want us to do
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Well in this case the "right thing"
is obviously subjective.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #64
105. People with memories that stretch back thousands of years...
> Who cares about the past?

People with memories that stretch back thousands of years
care about the past. And they have a tendency to take blood
feuds rather seriously, which is why everything we do that
further incites the blood feud is an error.

Here's a hint for you: Study the colonial actions of the
British Empire to see some of the roots of the current
feud. Study the actions of the oil companies in propping-
up convenient despotic monarchys in the area. Study the
actions of the CIA in installing the Shah of Iran.

And then come back and tell me that "they" started it.

Tesha
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
80. So since this is war, and you think they were right to bomb london
are we then right to do the same (again) to them? They attack, we attack, it just keeps on going where each side justifies what they do based on what others have done.

Next time I see an iraqi kid bleeding and dying I will shrug it off and say 'well, that's what you get when you bomb a bus in another country - you deserved it...'
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. Iraq, Sir
Had not bombed anyone in years when we invaded the place recently....
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. And that justifies the death penalty for others how?
Are we saying that it is ok to condemn others to death because of what someone else does? I thought most people here were anti-war and anti-death penalty, yet in cases like this they seem to make excuses for it being an ok act (some people).

Killing others is wrong - making excuses for those that kill can run the gamut on both sides. We say what America did was wrong - ok, cool. Now we should say the same about what these people did was wrong as well.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #85
92. Your Meaning Is Unclear, Sir
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 10:19 AM by The Magistrate
If my understanding of your original comment was in error, please correct me. You seemed to be saying that persons who felt no sympathy for the victims of the attacks in London ought no be outraged if someone showed no sympathy for victims of military operations in Iraq. My comment intended only to point out that there had been no action by Iraq similar to this for a long time before that invasion. Nor does it seem likely there is any particular connection between Iraq and this event.

Nonetheless, Sir, your point is otherwise sound, and we are most likely in agreement that people cut a poor figure expressing outrage at violence in one direction and indifference to it in another. Such an attitude can never reflect a moral abhorence of it, but only an expedient or political calculation of what serves one's particular ends.
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #92
101. To answer your question:
If my understanding of your original comment was in error, please correct me. You seemed to be saying that persons who felt no sympathy for the victims of the attacks in London ought no be outraged if someone showed no sympathy for victims of military operations in Iraq.

My answer is that it goes well with your second paragraph on violence in general. Why would one show sympathy for one set of victims and not another? The main reason I can see is politics. You think one victim deserves what they got and the other did not. I used Iraq because those on the right see those people as getting what they deserved, and on the left it seems some people think that britan got what it deserved. I don't see either argument as correct.

Codemn those that use violence in this way and have a heart and feel sympathy for all victims of agression.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #80
87. You mean 'we attack, they attack' . . .
re: "They attack, we attack, it just keeps on going . . ."

We attacked Iraq first. And, when is the last time you saw an Iraqi kid bleeding and dying? What did you do help him?

TYY
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. Well I sure hell did not come on here
and tell him he had it coming.

As i said elsewhere - we suddenly think the death penalty is ok? We suddenly feel vegenance is a good thing? Even if you can understand WHY someone did something - does that mean you endorse it? Do you think they are such animals that they can reason in a similar fashion that you expect other people to reason - ie, killing is wrong and making up reasons to do it does not make it right?

Fine - condemn the US and Britan for the war Iraq, but at least do the same for those who Kill innocent people on a bus. Sure we were wrong - does that make them right?

Now go ahead and tell me those people deserved the death penalty they got. I never said the iraqi's did and I sure as hell don't think the people who died today did either. People here can spends months bitching about the US and it's war and innocent lives lost, yet they won't do the same when someone else does a similar act. Wrong is wrong.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #80
106. As long as you also recognize that...
> Next time I see an iraqi kid bleeding and dying I will shrug it off
> and say 'well, that's what you get when you bomb a bus in another
> country - you deserved it...'

As long as you recognize that Iraqi kids are dying of this
war at a rate that's probably 100 times greater than our
kids.

Tesha
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
107. SO many questions......
relating to what happened today.

We all asked them as people died in Iraq. So we ask them today - and speculate as to the answers as we go along.

Those actually involved at the scene will do what is needed. Those of us far away will do something else that is needed - which is to ask "how did we get to this event?"

My personal shock and sadness over what has happened doesn't actually _help_ anyone.

The millions of us who are not involved at the scene just _might_ actually help not by indulging in cathartic TV news consumption but by staying alert to the use that the Bush admin. will surely make of this event.

Folks, we help those in London most by not taking a day off.


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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. I am totally with you
and feel so sorry for you and your country on this terrible day.

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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Sorry to say
A day like any other for the people of Iraq.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You said a mouthful there.
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mrfrapp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ask Blair to do likewise
I was appalled at his response to these incidents. Talk about manipulating tragedy for political gain, that was a doozy.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well said.
I'm in Cambridge. The response I've seen here on DU has been disgusting, with a few very notable and honorable exceptions.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Well said Brian
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 06:47 AM by dutchdemocrat
I agree.

Except for the fact that you are using the event to take a shot at blaming the EU.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. I am not.
I am simply stating that your analysis isn't accurate. I am pro-EU.
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. Quite right.
Politics can come later.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. Kicked and nominated. You are very much correct.
:kick:
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. As if
it isn't going to be used for political gain by them.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. So may I be the first in line to sink to their level, please?
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. My heart goes out to everyone in London and Great Britain...
This is a tragedy for all the people of the world. But I have great confidence that the British people will come through this. Many people here in the US don't understand that Britain and Europe are far more prepared than we to deal with these types of criminal acts. They have endured and triumphed over terrorism before - I'm 46 and I remember throughout the '70's and 80's there were numerous acts of terrorism by various groups and for various reasons. They were defeated by good old fashioned police work, intelligence gathering and prosecution of the criminals involved.

Please pass on to our British sisters and brothers our sympathies and our support for them during this tragic time.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. definitely, we are with you all the way
Glad you're fine and everything.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. Our prayers and sympathies are with you in London
But we're all angry about this. If it seems like political chatter as we react to it, accept my apologies. The welfare of the people in the London transportation system is paramount. Whatever we can do to help, I believe Americans will do.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
26. What the heck do you think the NeoCons in the US and their allies in....
...the Blair government are doing right this very second? Why don't you send THEM an email expressing your hopes for the day, because they're going to milk this thing for all it's worth for the next few weeks.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
93. right you are!!
and i feel terrible for the people of london, but i feel the same way i did on 9/11 and i feel the same way i do each and every day i hear of 20 or 30 -or 40 dead iraqi's each and every day..every life is important! i hope we all awaken to that fact , and thats not political..thats human!!
from a human who regards all murder..murder..whether it be from outsiders or our own governments..it makes it no more right for our own governments to cause these same kinds of murders.

i deplore any government or political activists or terrorist who take innocent peoples lives.

and we have a responsibility as americans to stop our own government from this same kind of terrorism on the people of iraq.

the war in iraq and the killing of over 100,000 innocent people does not make us nor england any safer..in fact the opposite is true.

my prayers for the people of england and iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. Not unlike Iraq *EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK*.
> People are dying in twisted wrecks under London desperate to be
> rescued. People are dying and shaken all over this city. Please
> think of them and what they're going through, rather than politics.

Not unlike Iraq *EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR*, thanks to Bush and Blair.

Tesha
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
30. Prayers for London
I hope for the best for the people there who were exposed to the evil of this violence, and for their families.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. You got it.
My thoughts are with all of you.

Glad you are ok. Hope your family and friends are safe.

:grouphug:
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
34. Brian...
...you hang in there my friend.

I know you and I have had words in the past, but I fully support you with this thread. It is vile what some people have been saying, both here at DU and on other forums.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. OMFG!!! This is awful!!! Brian, are you okay?
Good lawd! I just picked up what's happening. It looks really terrible. ;( I'm so sorry!

:grouphug:
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Lannes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
38. Best Wishes from the US
You Brits,especially you Londoners are a tough bunch.You got through the Blitz,the IRA attacks,and I know you will pull through this.

My condolences to the families and friends of those killed and wishes for a speedy recovery to those injured.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
40. Yes.....please ignore the rabble
our thoughts are with you,London and all of Britain today.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
52. How offensive
To suggest that those who may not be willing to suppress their outrage and blindly acquiesce- allowing them to frame the issue are little more than "rabble". Why, it is a step down from an "interest group".
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #52
68. isn't it great that free speech allows for offending people?
which include ignoring my statements and yours.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #68
77. true
;-)
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
41. Disagree.
I didn't like the non-political discussion after 9-11, and I don't agree with it now.

There are many of us that are pissed because Bush and Blair refused to fight the terrorists when they had a chance.

I'm not saying we shouldn't spend some time mourning. I just believe we should also be able to discuss why this happened.

This is a political discussion board.

If it bothers you that much, please just ignore this board for a day or so... and definitely stop telling others not to discuss what they strongly believe in.
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CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. I have to agree with you.
Many of us have the capability to feel shock, horror and sadness at terrorist strikes as well as extend sympathy and heartfelt prayers to the victims.

At the exact same time, we can't help but question why it happened, how it happened and what the politicians will do with it.

I lived in the Boston area before, during and after the events of 9/11 and happen to know a person who died at the Pentagon (a co-worker of my father's), a person who died in Pennsylvania (the brother of one of my sister's former boyfriends) and a person who died at the WTC (a neighbor). One of the flight attendants grew up in my neighborhood and one of the pilots lived in my small town.

I distinctly remember watching the news that night as the names of the airline passengers were scrolled down the screen by my local news channel and sobbing for them and their families while at the very same time experiencing a sinking feeling that George W. Bush was going to capitalize on that day in ways that were going to sicken me. All of my predictions that day and more came true.

The political knee-jerk reactions (Patriot Act and Iraq) was an afront to our Constitution and our citizens. Taking your eye off politics and letting yourself be led by the nose because of someone else playing off your emotions is a dangerous situation.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #51
76. I am so sorry for your loss(es)
My heart broke on 911 and quite frankly has not healed. I must confess that I was one of the people who although I despised bush* inc, thought that out of respect for those who lost their lives as well as for those who lost their loved ones, we should put politics aside and come together. **How wrong I was** Bush*inc pushed through the Patriot Act and the economic stimulus package while people like me were flat footed. **Never again**

I feel the way that we can best Honor those who were affected by today's tragedy is to remain engaged in political discussion & action.

Thank you for your wonderful post to help remind us all of what * et al is capable of doing to us while we are busy grieving.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
47. Been thinking of London and praying
since I heard the news almost 3 hours ago. :grouphug:
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
49. Please stay safe, my heart goes out to the people of London.
You are some of my favorite people in the world.

:cry:
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
53. I agree 100%.
That applies to ALL sides of the aisle.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
56. A timely post
Will be heeded. Good luck to ya, Brits!
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
57. That's A Selfish Request, Brian. -- Why Can't People Do Both?
... by expressing our concerns and sympathy and well-wishes -- AND -- discussing the policies and *politics* that have brought the world to this point.

An entire day of "silence"? Nothing but well-wishes? No discussion and no reflection on the precipitous situation that our governments have caused us to be in?

Why should we cut-off all discussion the explores things like: the reasons, the blame, the fault, the policies, the politics, the war, the anything and everything that forms the entire mosaic of what's going on today.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #57
94. You should have respect for the dead for just one day
If you cannot do that, you cannot demand respect for your own positions.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #94
99. Please Explain... How It Talking Politics Dis-Respecting The Dead?
<< "You should have respect for the dead for just one day" >>

And how does your desire to ban legitimate political discussion benefit the dead in any way? The dead don't care... they're dead.

<< If you cannot do that, you cannot demand respect for your own positions. >>

That makes no sense.

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #99
102. I'm talking about posts like. . .
"Who cares, people die everyday."

"Ha! This proves that the world isn't safer!"

"Good, payback's a bitch!"

"I bet George W. Bush planted the bombs himself"

And other such nonsense. Have a little respect for the victims for just one day.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. But That's NOT The Message Conveyed In Your OP...
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 10:47 AM by arwalden
... it seems to me what you REALLY want is for people to stop with the over-the-top paranoia and hyperbole. And if that's the case, you weren't very clear the first time and, if you had been more thoughtful and careful in wording your message, it wouldn't have been as inflammatory.


edit: grammar
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Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #94
100. I think most posters
have deep respect for the dead but feel that perhaps this might not have happened had we not gone to war with Iraq. I might also remind you that just the other day seventeen civilians were killed when US forces bombed in Afghanistan. Those were innocent people. All lives are sacred. I feel very badly for the people of London but don't feel that there should be no discussion about what has transpired today.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
58. Not to be cynical, but we care so little about the suffering Iraqis
we don't even keep track of how many we kill.

So, I have to wonder if this outpouring of sympathy for white people will be used as justification to slaughter more faceless brown people in the ME.

Apologies for the taboo thoughts.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. CWebster my thoughts exactly
I feel horrible about what's unfolding in London but just what the hell do we expect? Blair is prattling about how we will defend our way of life blah blah blah. This while we have fucking INVADED a sovereign nation and pretty much crippled their way of life based on a fucking pack of lies brought to us by this group of thugs in power.
God, I am pretty much despairing this morning about just what in the hell the future has in store for us.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. They are not taboo, just pointless
on a board where everyone was against the War in Iraq, where we have daily updates and threads on every bit of violence that goes on over there, where many posters are prominent anti-war activists. For that matter there are a number of UK DUers for whom this is personal, a number of DUers with friends and family in the area etc. The outpourings of sympathy are a human reaction in these circumstances...
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #63
71. And many parents lose their children in Iraq everyday.
What is your point?

That discussion of political realities on a political site is an affront to the dead?

Someone on another thread stated it along the lines of "we owe the living the truth", because these situations, like 911, the war on terror or the war on Iraq are politicized and people are instructed in correct thinking to support the political framework. So requests for sympathy outside the political framework are actually dangerous. Under those circumstances, parents believe their children are sent to "sacrifice" their lives based on a lie.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. No, as you might have noticed
I have been discussing the politics of this freely. And for that matter, I agree that this will get used as an excuse for new excursions into the realm of "the others", with a resulting slaughter many times greater than today's death toll. I just don't think its useful to keep going on at everyone here how 'we' don't care about Iraqis and how our outpouring of sympathy will be used for this or that. The people on this messageboard care about as much as anyone outside Iraq does...
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Perhaps
but how often do we hear calls to shut down political discussions because 6 car bombs went off in Baghdad simultaneously?

The point is if we, who are the most aware, fall for it, who will the rest of the "rabble" predictably respond?
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. I think that call was made by a couple of
people, and in any case not widely supported. Most of the board is alive and well into discussing which planet the alien perpetrators of this false flag operation beamed in from.

I'm not saying don't talk politics, I'm just saying be a little less confrontational about it with people who are, basically, on the same side. This board has a thread or two on nearly every bombing/attack reported from Iraq, with numerous messages of sympathies and disguist every time, after all.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #63
104. Actually, quite a few here were *FOR* the war...
> They are not taboo, just pointless on a board where
> everyone was against the War in Iraq, ...

Actually, quite a few here were *FOR* the war and virtually
spit on the pre-war anti-war protesters. They're not as vocal
nowadays, of course, seeing as how things have turned into
the exact sort of shit that we anti-war folks forecast.

Tesha
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. What, quite a few DU members?
OK, if you say so. I am glad to see it took us such a short time to start the communal bloodletting over this...
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #108
110. I'm sorry, but it's true.
Not a majority, but after 9/11, a significant, highly-vocal minority
of DUers were banging the war drums constantly. A number of them
haven't been seen lately (which might suggest any of several things
about them) but they were *VERY* obvious before we invaded Iraq.

Tesha
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
59. I agree with that, my son is in London for a grade 12 english course they
were on the underground on the way to a big bus tour. The school has not been able to locate them as of yet. I am feeling quite sick at the moment.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #59
73. I am so sorry
I hope he is OK. According to CNN, the whole phone system is down so that might be why they can't find him.
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
65. Politics CAUSED the explosions-
and this, by definition, is a political web board...

ergo- it's kind of hard to separate the two-

but if YOU want to sit in a corner and meditate on it- go right ahead...

just don't presume to tell me or anyone else what we should and shouldn't be discussing...

sheesh... :eyes:
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Meldread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
70. I can't do that.
I feel sympathy for any and all who have been harmed, who have died, and those who have been effected by the loss or harm of loved ones. However, at the same time it would be naive to believe that the other side is giving this a moments thought. They are in hot water, and the little cogs in their head are spinning looking for a way to use this to their advantage. It is our responsibility to prevent them from doing that.

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
72. We love ya Brian!
And we love our friends in London too! :loveya:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
83. Please take care.
We are all with you on the terrible day. :cry:
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
86. Prayers and thoughts with the Brits today.
I have family there. :kick:
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
88. Done and done sir
Spending my day making sure my family & friends over there are ok and letting them know they are in my thoughts and prayers.

As are you. :pals:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
90. Hey Bri.
I'm with you.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
91. my sympathies to the people of london
as for manipulating this tragedy for political gain: DUers are not the people we need to worry about. on the other hand, there a few people in washington, d.c. who most definitely will use this tragedy for their own political ends.
my condolences to the families of the latest victims of senseless vilence.
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
98. thoughts and prayers for londoners and all peoples
in the world who are victims of terrorist violence from native and foreign sources
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #98
109. Update: Emailed my cousinin London when I got to work this
morning. Thankfully, he, his wife and child are fine. I didn't realize that my great aunt and uncle (his parents) are also in London visiting; he said they're staying 15 miles outside of London and are OK, too. Was relieved to hear this (I know London's a big city, but...).

My thoughts are with those lost and injured in the UK.
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