If a corporation is a person,

[Jackpine Radical]

does it have to be over 18 to vote?

Seriously, are there any viable campaigns ongoing to strip corporations of their personhood?

[lala_rawraw]

1. What if we all merge?

Into American Citizens Inc., or something like that. We could really just have fun and do whatever...hmmm, dreaming.

[Amy6627]

18. Publically funded elections removes the need for politicians

to take corporate contributions.

Watch this: http://www.caclean.org/materials/watch.php

[Desertrose]

2. I have no idea...good question....

damn corporations have more rights than the rest of us anymore....mutter ..mutter....


Anyhoo Jackpine....just wanted to say :hi:
How ya doin'??
:hug::loveya::hug:
DR

[Karenina]

13. And they're FUCKIN' OBVIOUS PSYCHOS!

:crazy:

Please, somebody wake me up and tell me the last 5 years were just a bad dream............

[Jackpine Radical]

37. That's so incredibly true--corp. charters require antisocial behavior

from the officers. They are REQUIRED to do whatever it takes to max the profits. I was once gonna write an essay on this theme but it was just too damn depressing.

[Amy6627]

19. Publically funded elections are the way to go.

We need to eliminate the need for corporate contributions.

Watch this: http://www.caclean.org/materials/watch.php

[Jackpine Radical]

36. Hi DR.

:loveya: back at ya. I'll have to send you a long PM when I find the time to breathe.

[htuttle]

3. How come corporations get the protections of the Bill of Rights

But the people in Guantanamo Bay do not?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Does it have to be...

over 21 to drink?

[Melynn]

33. Can a corporation be drafted

into the military?

[tabasco]

38. No, corporations love to volunteer for war !

They don't have to be drafted.

Corporations LOVE WAR ! :mad:

[tech3149]

5. check here

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/

If you've never listened to Thom Hartmann, this is high on his list of problems that we face.

[proud patriot]

12. Thanks for that link

[Amy6627]

25. We need publically funded elections to remove the need

for politicans from needing Corporate contributions. They are working right now in Arizona and Maine.

Watch this: http://www.caclean.org/materials/watch.php

[Jackpine Radical]

39. Right. Corporations would still be fundamentally evil, but

politicians would be better able to oversee their regulation. Sorta like probation officers.

[Starfury]

14. And check here....Break the Link

http://breakthelink.org/index.php

Great idea to use state initiatives to break the corporation/politician money link!

[annabanana]

6. If they get the Bill of Rights... can I have their tax breaks?

I'm tellin ya.. There's a lot a depreciation around my house.

[ComerPerro]

11. For filing purposes, can I say that I live in the Cayman Islands

and still be considered a US Citizen?

[sandnsea]

7. Why can a corporate person own another corporate person?

A person owning a person is illegal, isn't it?

And why does a corporate person get to file bankruptcy and change it's name, but a living person doesn't?

[Sal Minella]

8. The absurdity of this really hit me when the tobacco companies

insisted they should be allowed to advertise anywhere they wanted to, otherwise their "freedom of speech" was being restricted. They lost on that one. Something to do with a larger issue of children's health, it seems.

Also corporations giving money to political candidates is classified as "speech" -- which means those of us who are poor are forced to be voiceless, speechless, flattened by the juggernaut of corporate wealth.

[Wapsie B]

9. If a corporation has first amendment rights

why do my first amendment rights end at my employer's doorstep?

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. The first amendment is a limit on the actions of GOVERNMENT, not

individuals or corporations.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Amy6627]

22. I disagree. The first amendment was not intended to protect

corporations.

[Selatius]

10. All have failed. Not a single one in the 20th century succeeded

If you want to break corporate power over government, you need campaign finance reform. A taxpayer-subsidized election system is in order, but you're essentially going to have to ask congressmen to bite the hand that feeds them. Good luck with this point! They are some of the biggest contributors to candidates' political campaigns in America. Many of them play both sides of the aisle. This is where the term "Republicrat" originated from.

This is why I am so loathe to declare loyalty to either the Republican or Democratic Parties. I vote my conscience, and as a result, I'll probably never vote straight-ticket Democratic for the rest of my life.

Not only do you need a subsidized system, you also need a ban on all outside money once the system is up and running. The only money then would be taxpayer dollars.

If you want to challenge corporate power in its own domain, you need to enforce the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and bust up some of the larger firms and reconstitute something like the Fairness Doctrine in the corporate news media. I'd also advocate something like a socialized news network owned and operated by citizens directly like community-owned news stations or community-owned radio stations.

Personally, I think I advocate a proposition that will die in the water the second it hits the Senate or House floor. I am not confidant any more than a few would take up such reforms. The others would object because it conflicts with their "interests."

[Amy6627]

20. Yes publically funded elections are the answer! They are working

in Arizona and Maine now. Watch this:
http://www.caclean.org/materials/watch.php

[Selatius]

26. This can be done in state legislatures, but can it be done in Congress???

This is a very important question. Most of the biggest corporate interests are entrenched at the federal level. It may be relatively easy to push through clean election laws at the state or local level, but I think it's going to be frighteningly difficult to near impossible to do it at the federal level.

[Amy6627]

40. It won't be easy or happen quickly, but it will happen if enough

people demand it. We must start locally and at the state level and work are way up to federal. It takes along time to change minds and laws, but we must start. Abolishing slavery, civil rights, women's rights, were not granted over night they took years and years to overcome. I'm sure at the time the grassroots efforts were started for any of those causes seemed overwhelming at the time, but eventually it happened.

[HawkerHurricane]

15. Better question...

If one commits a capital offense, can it be executed?

[Amy6627]

21. They used to. 150 years ago when they broke the law or We The

People decided we didn't need them, their charters were revolved. A great book to read about the whole history of how corporations became so powerful is "Unequal Protection" by Thom Hartmann. But I think what need to be done now is publically funded elections. They are working in Arizona and Maine now. Watch this:

http://www.caclean.org/materials/watch.php

[Amy6627]

16. Yes there are! Lots of them--

http://www.wilpf.org/campaigns/ccp/CPOWER_headlines.htm

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/

http://www.poclad.org/

Great books: "Unequal Protection" by Thom Hartmann,
"Corporateering" by Jamie Court

Stripping corporations of their personhood is a wonderful idea and needs to happen, but it will take a Supreme Court decision.

I think that the most do-able thing we can do is remove the need to have corporations contribute to political campaigns, we need publicly funded elections. In California we have a group working on this, which I am a member, called California Clean Money Campaigns http://www.caclean.org/. They have clean money campaigns now in Arizona and Maine that have been very successful. Go to this website and find the organization in your state, and get involved.
http://www.publicampaign.org/states/index.htm

[AP]

23. The constitution establishes a fair relationship between gov't and indi-

viduals.

If people don't want corporations to be treated fairly by the government, then what do they want?

One of the early "personhood" cases people complain about was one that allowed a corporation to print the various prices for pharmaceuticals. Somebody was trying to protect the high prices of one of the companies and didn't want the comparison lists to be printed. The courts said, no, you can't stop a company from printing something that is true without a compelling reason not to. This may be the same way we treat individuals, but, if you ask me, it's also fair.

If corporations were treated less fairly by the government than it treats individuals, this would not going bring us to a consumer paradise on earth. You know exactly whom the government is going to treat less fair. It'll be the small businesses who will be punished and the big businesses who will not be touched.

It's not personhood that makes big corporations rule the world. It's things like the tax code and CFR, and there's nothing in constitutional jurisprudence stopping the reform of those things. It's political will that stops reform.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Franklin, Jefferson, Adams all agreed, Beware of corporate interest..

Creeping in to affairs of Power in government.

[AP]

28. I agree with that.

What I disagree with is that it's corporate personhood that allows corporations to creep into government.

I think the real problem is power disparity between large corporations and everyone else, including small businesses, consumers, labor, and small, non-inside investors.

I think implementing a legal regime which meant that corporations were treated less fairly by the government would just make the problem worse because it doesn't address the power differentials. All the rules would be applied to make doing business less fair for small business people and the big businesses would get away with even more shit than they get away with now.

[orpupilofnature57]

24. What does a person have to do with a corporation???

[Bouncy Ball]

29. If a corporation is a person, they are the BIGGEST

scammers of welfare in the nation, hands down. No competition.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. You mean Cooperate welfare right ,like halliburton, Like the workfare..

program shrub is presently enrolled in.

[PowerToThePeople]

31. Draft the corporations to fight your fucking war.

That means the shareholders, boards of directors, and executives. They get more out out this country, let them give a bit..

[KamaAina]

32. If it is over 18, can it be DRAFTED??

Dear Halliburton,

Greetings from the President!...

[AlienGirl]

34. If it's a person, can it be sentenced to death? n/t

[sam sarrha]

35. corporations don't give campaign contributions,the CEO's give other peoples

money {stockholders}away after maxing out their own campaign contributions.. so isn't that a violation of the campaign laws.. and the people didn't get an opportunity to choose or deny that contribution.. and those people also gave their maximum.. they are guilty of campaign violations...??

what is so hard to see that any way you look at it it is illegal..??

[anarchy1999]

41. Check in with this organization. Lots of helpful information!

www.reclaimdemocracy.org

[dogday]

42. That is the great thing about Federal Charters of Incorporation

No one individual is personally responsible. They don't need to vote, they already have Lobbyist and outside sources who do their voting and law manipulating for them...