I suggest, that too many people are taking psychotropic drugs

[mopaul]

now don't attack me, i know many, many people who use prescription meds to control anxiety, depression, etc. and i would never want to take away anything from anyone who has or could benefit from them.

i feel that teens and children particularly are prescribed drugs way too often and way too easily for various perceived maladies. it's one thing for an adult to make such decisions, but my own sister was more or less forced to give her two teen sons meds for their misbehavior in school. not outlandish or bizarre behavior, just plain teen mischief, like most teens go through.

and i know one guy who is almost 40 who has been taking ritalin since he was 11. and i know at least a dozen people 50 and over who have been taking anti depression drugs for over a decade. i am often wrong, but i get the impression that they don't even really need it.

i've suffered from various types of depression all through my life, and have thus far avoided any type of prescribed meds.

and i also confess that i 'self medicate' with wine, beer and the lord's own good green grass, in moderation. so maybe those are all a crutch, i don't know.

maybe i'm totally off base here, maybe the plague of depression is more serious than i thought, and that wouldn't surprise me. to me, depression is just an everyday part of life, like breathing. but that's just me, and i don't hold it against anybody who needs chemical help.

[mr_hat]

1. I tend to agree: Probably over-perscribed and over-used. >

I doubt you'd get many doctors or patients to admit that such was their particular case, however.

Disclaimer: I'm a better person when I'm not depressed. And I rely on SSRIs to do the job.

[acmejack]

2. It is hard to get away from anti-depressants

once they have you on them, at least with the VA. All VAs have a very large psych dept. Probably can draw some conclusions from that. I am very sure there will be a lot of young vets seeing them soon.

[H2O Man]

3. Way too many. n/t

[NorCalDem]

4. I've said this for awhile too

But I pose the question a different way. If ADD, social-anxiety disorder, etc. are all real DISEASES, then surely they existed prior to Ritalin and our modern medications. If this is so, then how did hundreds of generations before us cope with these diseases without medication that I am told is essential for a normal life? Could it be, that drug companies would simply like to push more product (like any dealer of other drugs wishes to push more product, other drugs like the Lord's own good green grass, now punishable by death)? I am sure that these medications due cure ailments for people who are genuinely depressed or anxious, and can really benefit from these drugs, but the fact of the matter is that drug companies encourage medical practicioners to hand them out generously for the sake of profit.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. SOP in Europe...

Even for Schizophrenia, is to administer psychotropics(in the case of schizophrenia, Seroquel is the clear choice, due to lack of deadly side effects like Clozaril has...) for a period of 6 weeks to 3 months. They have found that to administer over a longer period exacerbates symptoms. Why? Messes with the L-Dopa cycle in the brain, which causes schizophrenia-like symptoms.

I dare say that we could look into that. As long as Big Pharma runs this country, we won't.

[JitterbugPerfume]

13. it saddens me

to see so many children on these drugs
for those who need them they are a god-send , but for way to many they are a crutch and an excuse

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

22. What it is...

Is a profit generator and a social control mechanism. Our society can not tolerate "different". It goes against the grain.

[Sanity Claws]

6. Judging by the behavior I've seen

people are not taking enough psychotropic drugs.
Joking aside, I think that our present lifestyles create the conditions for depression and the need for drugs to get by. Our food is denatured and does not supply the nutrients our bodies need. People do not sleep enough. They do not get enough sunlight. They isolate themselves from their community. All of these things, as well as others, wreck havoc with our mental and physical bodies.

[livinginphotographs]

12. Best post ever (or at least for today).

Too many people write off psych meds as either an evil conspiracy by the pharmaceutical companies, or something that is desperately needed by everyone. Thank you for realizing there is a middle ground.

There are definitely people who need these drugs, that were probably either untreated or mal-treated (my word) before their invention. Still, the main reason so many people my age (mid-20's) that I know, I'd say around 90%, are on some sort of pill for either depression or anxiety, is because of exactly what you stated above. The tons of shit in our food, the typical American mentality of work-80-hours-a-week-and-no-vacation-or-you're-a-lazy-slob, and sit inside all day watching sitcoms instead of interacting with the real world can't be good for us.

[femme.democratique]

19. Bingo, you hit the nail on the head

A sense of community is crucial to maintaining mental health. I have a real problem with this where I live. Look at the world around us, its dog eat dog. The real communities with social support networks are few and far between, unless you count the local sports bar as "community". Stress and consumerism are poison just as much as the chemicals we ingest on daily basis. Look at NutraSweet as an example, people willingly poison themselves to save a few calories. Makes me want to sell everything and move to a commune. I can't take it anymore! We're all rats in a cage, a cage made to mimic freedom.

I was on SSRIs for a while, and they worked, but I have a very hard time committing myself to staying on them for life - both because I can't stand Big Pharm being able to control my brain with a pill and getting rich off of it. I also believe that eventually Big Pharm will become so evil that they could modify their formula into a real Bush-style "mind control" pill. Now, I prefer other forms of relief that I won't elaborate on :-)

[mopaul]

24. THX-1138, george lucas's first film, in the future, everybody takes drugs

and thx-1138 stopped taking them, fell in love and escaped the matrix

[ultraist]

25. LOL!

"people are not taking enough psychotropic drugs." Particularly those aggressive drivers who sport W stickers!!!

[Carni]

7. You're singing to the choir with me my friend!

I have a very very old dear friend who's entire family is currently doped up on perscription meds--the kids, the parents...all of them are taking at least two scripts.

I don't live their life but I just don't see that these people need to take all this crap.

I have been depressed since 2000 and unless someone tells me the *ding dong the witch is dead* and my country has returned to normal there isn't any pill that will solve my woes!

[PassingFair]

23. Right On!

As if we don't have enough to be depressed about!
I go to a couple of dem/progressive meetings a month. It makes me feel better DOING something against these thugs, even if it's just writing letters or agitating locally.
I say, if you're NOT depressed, you're not paying attention.
At least we know what's bothering us.
I know many 'pukes that take prescription drugs who have no idea why they're depressed.

[Carni]

31. I agree!

What in the hell is there to be happy about these days?

I don't need an upset stomach and constipation and whatever else to add to my problems! (lol'ing -- sort of)

[livinginphotographs]

37. See my post #36.

Believe me, I have my qualms about overmedicating people, and about direct advertising of prescription drugs, but you are in no position to judge your friend's family. You have no idea what they are going through, or what conditions (or how severe those conditions are) might be in that family.

[knowbody0]

8. these are depressing times for sure

big bucks in pharmaceuticals, plus combined with a shitload of FAUX, the masses are easier to control.

take away the meds, and take back the media, everyone would be protesting

[mopaul]

10. donald 'death' rumsfeld owns billions in big pharmaceuticals

what's that tell ya?

[knowbody0]

14. PNAC

[whistle]

9. You are not at all off-base Mopaul....if you can show your medical

...degree and license to practice medicine that entitles you to make such sweeping generalizations about the use of such medications and who should or should not be prescribed them. If you can't produce the necessary credentials then kindly follow the DU rules and support such claims with properly sourced material or links, or keep your opinions to yourself. Thank you.

[mopaul]

15. why, my bona fides & credentials are right here in my briefcase here

opinions are like assholes, everyone, even me, has one

[driver8]

17. Exactly! Pretty wide generalization there...if you have never

needed these drugs or taken them, you have no idea what the f*ck you are talking about.

I take Wellbutrin and Effexor to control depression and anxiety. I have a feeling that if I had not started treatment when I did, I might not be sitting here writing this post.

Many of you talk about "being depressed." There is a big difference between depression and "being down" or "having the blues." If you have suffered from depression, you will definitely know what I am talking about.

[mopaul]

20. back off buddy

even cowgirls get the blues. i SAID i have no problem with folks who really need it, didn't you read that part?

[driver8]

29. Yes, I read that part. I meant to direct my comment to the group,

not just to you. Sorry for the misunderstanding. However, I have heard similar comments over and over again from people that do not have a clue about depression and, frankly, it gets old...

[mopaul]

30. well i DO have a clue, believe me

and again, whatever works for you is good enough for me.

[Carni]

18. I would also suggest that the *school psychologists*

Should do the same...

Since when does a *psychologist* of any kind have a clue about what medical chemical imbalance someone may have?

[ultraist]

11. 2 out of 3 foster children in Texas are on psychotropic drugs

http://www.infowars.com/articles/brave_new_world/new_freedom_paul_amendment.htm

Our children are being over medicated and is very disturbing. They plan on medicating MORE of our children, through force:

Congress Funds Mandatory Psychological Tests for Kids

Newsmax | November 23 2004

One of the nation's leading medical groups, the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS), decried a move by the U.S. Senate to join with the House in funding a federal program AAPS says will lead to mandatory psychological testing of every child in America – without the consent of parents.

When the Senate considered an omnibus appropriations bill last week that included funding for grants to implement universal mental health screening for almost 60 million children, pregnant women and adults through schools and pre-schools, it approved $20 million of the $44 million sought, Kathryn Serkes, public affairs counsel for AAPS, told NewsMax.


I have mixed feelings about adults using medication. I've seen it work well for some adults but have read that it increase problems for many. The numbers of adults on antidepressants are at historic highs. It's being driven by the pharmaceutical megacorps, of course.

I don't have any personal experience with psychotropics but if they are working for someone, I'd be hesitant to discourage them from taking them.

Hmmmm....

"Of Lilly's $1.6 million in political contributions in 2000, 82 percent went to Bush and the Republican Party

[H2O Man]

16. I hereby nominate this thread.

I think drugs are way over-prescribed.

[Al-CIAda]

21. The Psycho State- by Rep. Ron Paul, MD (R, Texas)

The Psycho State
by Rep. Ron Paul, MD (R, Texas)
 A presidential initiative called The “New Freedom Commission on Mental Health” has issued a report recommending forced mental health screening for every child in America, including preschool children. The goal is to promote the patently false idea that we have a nation of children with undiagnosed mental disorders crying out for treatment.

One obvious beneficiary of the proposal is the pharmaceutical industry, which is eager to sell the psychotropic drugs that undoubtedly will be prescribed to millions of American schoolchildren under the new screening program. Of course a tiny minority of children suffer from legitimate mental illnesses, but the widespread use of Ritalin and other drugs on youngsters who simply exhibit typical rambunctious, fidgety, and impatient behavior is nothing short of criminal. It may be easier to teach and parent drugged kids, but convenience is no justification for endangering them. Children’s brains are still developing, and the truth is we have no idea what the long-term side effects of psychiatric drugs may be. Medical science has not even exhaustively identified every possible brain chemical, even as we alter those chemicals with drugs.

Dr. Karen Effrem, a physician who strongly opposes mandatory mental health screening, warns us that “America’s children should not be medicated by expensive, ineffective, and dangerous medications based on vague and dubious diagnoses.” She points out that psychiatric diagnoses are inherently subjective, as authors of the diagnostic manuals admit. She also is concerned that mental health screening could be used to label children whose attitudes, religious beliefs, and political views conflict with the secular orthodoxy that dominates our schools.

The greater issue, however, is not whether youth mental health screening is appropriate. The real issue is whether the state owns your kids. When the government orders “universal” mental health screening in schools, it really means “mandatory.” Parents, children, and their private doctors should decide whether a child has mental health problems, not government bureaucrats. That this even needs to be stated is a sign of just how obedient our society has become toward government. What kind of free people would turn their children’s most intimate health matters over to government strangers? How in the world have we allowed government to become so powerful and arrogant that it assumes it can force children to accept psychiatric treatment whether parents object or not?

Parents must do everything possible to retain responsibility and control over their children’s well-being. There is no end to the bureaucratic appetite to rule every aspect of our lives, including how we raise our children. Forced mental health screening is just the latest of many state usurpations of parental authority: compulsory education laws, politically-correct school curricula, mandatory vaccines, and interference with discipline through phony “social services” agencies all represent assaults on families. The political right has now joined the political left in seeking the de facto nationalization of children, and only informed resistance by parents can stop it. The federal government is slowly but surely destroying real families, but it is hardly a benevolent surrogate parent.

September 14, 2004
Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul203.html

[stellanoir]

26. A while ago I heard, that

over 40% of our population are taking pharmacuetical medications on a regular basis. Granted some of them are not psychoactive. In Europe it's 15%.

Then we wonder repeatedly why people are not capable of critical thinking. Welcome to the Prozac nation.

This makes me sick. Really. It's bull. I remember a day when prescription drugs were never advertised on TV. It was just aspirin and pepto and the like.

When the pharmaceutical corporations get most of the R & D money from taxpayers, how dare they blast us with pricey advertisements for things we don't need!!! Catering to hypochondriacts I presume.

Damn, if someone has a problem they go to a doctor and have something recommended. Why should I have to explain to my kid about the inane purpose of Viagra or Levietra???

I'm furious about this. /rant.

[Al-CIAda]

27. Freedom Commission Roadmap Awaited

11. Freedom Commission Roadmap Awaited
The release of the first iteration of the roadmap to operationalize the findings of the President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health is imminent. We will disseminate the document when it is unveiled. On a related note, the British Medical Journal, in anticipation of the roll-out, alleged in a disjointed story that the Bush administration will announce a plan to screen all Americans for mental disorders and promote antidepressant and antipsychotic drug use – allegations which we are told are well beyond the scope of anything the administration has planned and which seem to stem from a psychiatric survivors group. The BMJ story has gained some traction in derivative reports on the Internet, though mainstream media have not touched the story, in part thanks to APA’s work, for which the administration is appreciative.

http://www.psych.org/join_apa/mb/newsletters/advocacy/AdvNewsJuly2004.htm#21

---------
Chief Inmate declares nation an asylum Prozac-popping prez recommends mandated mental health screening for all Americans
http://proliberty.com/observer/20040806.htm
----------
How about Just dosing the general public directly?


Anti-Depressant 'Found in Drinking Water'
Sun 8 Aug 2004
By Jennifer Sym, PA News
Britons could unwittingly be swallowing traces of anti-depressant Prozac and other drugs in drinking water, according to a report released today.
Environmentalists have labelled the situation “hidden mass medication of the unsuspecting public” after the study states pharmaceutical residues can travel through the sewage system and end up in the “aquatic environment”.
The levels of any such residue is unknown, and the Environment Agency has called on the drugs industry to prove its products are unlikely to cause significant harm to the environment.
According to the study by Norman Baker MP, Liberal Democrat shadow environment secretary, Prozac has been found by the EA to be “both toxic and persistent” and “a substance that could be of potential concern”.
There has been a 166% increase in prescriptions for anti-depressants in England since 1991 – up to 24 million a year.
Mr Baker said: “This looks like a case of hidden mass medication of the unsuspecting public and is potentially a very worrying health issue.

Cont-
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3310754



BBC Article-Prozac 'found in drinking water'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3545684.stm

___________

LLINOIS launches compulsory mental health screening -WHY YOU NEED TO BE CONCERNED
Commentary by Laura Dawn Lewis
http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/2004/BigBrotherPregnancy.htm  

If you haven't noticed yet, the majority of new laws and policies being implemented are sold on fear through the necessity of good intentions and as a way to protect you by allowing your government to take care of you, as if the government is a better steward of your body, soul and mind. Each is euphemized to seem harmless and necessary.  Every time a law is passed, you give up a portion of your freedom.  This is a fact.  Some laws are necessary to allow society to function toward a common good.  Laws like murder is bad.  Stealing is unjust and beating a child unacceptable.  These create the commonalities that define civilization. 
Since September 11th, 2001 our governments, state, local and federal continue to push through resolutions, legislation and ideas directly in contradiction to the rules we've already established for America, set forth in our Constitution.  In effect, each of these chips at our civil liberties, forcing us further away from our values and principles.  This law in Illinois represents one such example. 

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/2004/BigBrotherPregnancy.htm

[welshTerrier2]

28. my niece takes anti-depressant meds

she's 15 ...

before she started taking them, we could not "reach her" ... she was so withdrawn and so angry at everything and everyone, we could not find a way to show her we loved her and that we wanted to provide her with support ...

now, she's able to see that not everyone is against her ... we have a very close relationship and it's helped her make progress in a number of areas in her life ...

anti-depressants are not panaceas but sometimes, at least from what i've seen, they are critically needed ... as to over-prescribing, i have no real way to measure that beyond what i've read ... and what i've read supports your argument ...

[kineneb]

42. I am on a long-term program of Paxil

Without it, I would probably be dead, by suicide. REAL depression is repetitive and permanently damages parts of the brain. I just finished listening to Dr. Kramer of "Listening to Prozac" fame. He has a new book about depression, which I would like for my collection.

I would be happy to be well and never have to take the meds again, but that will not happen. After 5 major episodes of depression which I can remember, I never want to go there again. At some point it becomes physically painful, and all I want to do is end the pain. Sorry, folks, but it is a real disease, just like diabetes, and often kills faster.

[autorank]

32. Maybe, maybe not.

now don't attack me,no attack intended, this is a reasonable question.

i feel that teens and children particularly are prescribed drugs way too often and way too easily for various perceived maladies. there are some teens taking medications that they don't need and some in need not taking them. the gold standard for teen medication is real need assessed by a psychiatrist or very well trained pediatrician in consultation with the teens therapist (if they have one). the ADHD/psychostimulant question is just part of this. the real need area often overlooked is adolescent bipolar disorder, real as anything you've ever seen. when this is misdiagnosed as adhd or depression, the medications can actually cause mania. when this is properly diagnosed and medicated, you save lives (and allow normal lives to ensue). bipolar is the second most heritable medical condition, its full or dangerous partial expression is identifiable, and it must be treated. the suicide rate for untreated bipolar disorder is 15-20% (think about that). antidepresants for teens don't work nearly as well as they do for adults. adhd can be verified through proper observation and testing, which is is not on occasion.

i get the impression that they don't even really need it.maybe thats because the medication is working.

i've suffered from various types of depression all through my life, and have thus far avoided any type of prescribed meds.keep up the good work!

maybe i'm totally off base here, maybe the plague of depression is more serious than i thought,it is. the epidemiological data on this is carefully collected. the work is well done and drug companies do not sponsor this collection. for some reason, things are getting worse. and that wouldn't surprise me. to me, depression is just an everyday part of life,it is but it's not clinical depression, which requires treatment i don't hold it against anybody who needs chemical help.wish there were more out there like you.

[Just Me]

33. Well, I do believe that we have "pushers" of drugs,...

...prescription drugs, which are not necessary. I've had prescription drugs PUSHED on me,...that caused me nothing other than pain!!!

I always avoided having antibiotics PUSHED on both me and my son,...for a sniffle.

Is depression really an everyday part of your life? :shrug: 'Cause whatever depression you suffer certainly does NOT stop you from being extraordinarily productive!!! *LOL*

[shrike]

34. Being that anti-depressants make it possible for me to have a life

I don't have anything bad to say about them.

[spacelady]

35. Soma n/t

[livinginphotographs]

36. There's a real danger in downplaying mental illness.

We can play all day with cute conspiracy theories about big pharm trying to give us all soma, but there are people that really need these drugs.

I'm not talking to you specifically, as you've already said you acknowledge this, but saying that all anti-depressants are some govt conspiracy and that "no one really needs them" is a gross oversimplification. Someone who has never gone through a real psychiatric disorder has no business preaching to others about whether their condition is "only in their head" or something.

[spacelady]

38. I would never downplay true mental illness, doubtless these meds have

a vital role in treatment; I was making a blanket comment on the mainstream media hyping meds for anybody who has a moment of anxiety, an upset tummy from stress--basically the experience of life.

[autorank]

40. livingphotographs & spacelady, You're both right.

For those who want to "downplay" serious conditions like major depression and bipolar disorder, how about this challenge: the next time you need an antibiotic to cure an infection that might kill you, see if you question the legitimacy of antibiotics (or any other non psychotropic medication for that matter) for your medical condition. If you do, then you can go around and say do people really need medication for mental illness. Believe it or not, there are actually a few crackpots who deny the need for medication for schizophrenia.

Drug company advertising is a problem. The one that galls me is the Zoloft cures PTSD ad, what a crock. It can help if depression is an ongoing, secondary condition but it doesn't make the trauma go away.

I think the question of this thread is a good one, humbly asked. I think that the answers provided justifying the appropriate use of medication are also extremely clear and compelling (if I do say so myself).

[mopaul]

44. i agree, many people genuinely need them

but i feel that many people don't

[NMMNG]

39. Fighting the urge to use the "H" word

i've suffered from various types of depression all through my life, and have thus far avoided any type of prescribed meds.

and i also confess that i 'self medicate' with wine, beer and the lord's own good green grass, in moderation. so maybe those are all a crutch, i don't know.


So because you've never broken down and utilized a therapeutic prescription medication, and instead 'self-medicated' with narcotics that makes you feel stronger than those who have used psychotropic medications.

I believe you are fooling yourself and being condescending to those who utilize prescription medications.

I agree that in some instances psychotropic medications are being over prescribed, for instance when it comes to young children. There are times that good old fashioned discipline is what they need, not drugs. However this is not always the case, and carefully monitored therapeutic medication should not be ruled out as a treatment.

For the thousands of Americans who fall prey to mental illness each year (myself included), these medications can mean the difference between normal functioning and a debilitating illness. Nobody would expect a person with high blood pressure to just 'shrug it off', so why is a person with depression told to do so?

[mopaul]

43. no,i don't feel stronger than you, quite the contrary

my avoidance of prescription meds is quite deliberate, there have been many times i wish i was on them, because i got depression real bad. i'm not bragging, or lording it over you.

i wish you well. i do take high blood pressure meds, so i can relate to your post.

i'm not looking down my nose at you at all.

[Redstone]

41. Yes, you're way off base. Clinical depression is NOT

"just an everyday part of life."

Neither is ADD.

Just because you "get the impression that they don't even really need it" doesn't mean that they don't.

And "self medicating," as you say you do with booze and grass, is about as smart as acting as your own lawyer in a legal matter.

You're not doing anybody any favors by posting this stuff; if people have psychological problems, they should get some help instead of "self medicating" for "percieved maladies."

Redstone