Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Evolution Trial witness in Kansas outed as a MOONIE in cross-examination

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Cell Whitman Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:23 PM
Original message
Evolution Trial witness in Kansas outed as a MOONIE in cross-examination
Edited on Mon May-09-05 02:19 PM by Cell Whitman
I am sure you have seen some of the buzz around the new and improved Scopes trial in Kansas.

Quoting: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1601051,00.html
Kansas is one of a growing number of states to consider authorising schools to teach religious alternatives to Darwin — but a four-day hearing of the Kansas board has outraged mainstream scientists, who are boycotting the meeting and holding protests outside.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science declined an invitation to testify, arguing that the hearings would confuse rather than educate the public.

“This is a showcase trial,” Jack Krebs, vice-president of Kansas Citizens for Science, said. “They have hijacked science and education.”


_____

Well wouldn't you know it, one of the first and foremost witnesses for the anti-science side was Jonathan Wells, who was outed as a recruit of Sun Mynug Moon's during cross examination.

Quoting Wells's own words: http://www.tparents.org/library/unification/talks/wells/DARWIN.htm
Darwinism: Why I Went for a Second Ph.D. by Jonathan Wells, Ph.D.-Berkeley, CA

At the end of the Washington Monument rally in September, 1976, I was admitted to the second entering class at Unification Theological Seminary. During the next two years, I took a long prayer walk every evening. I asked God what He wanted me to do with my life, and the answer came not only through my prayers, but also through Father's many talks to us, and through my studies. Father encouraged us to set our sights high and accomplish great things.

He also spoke out against the evils in the world; among them, he frequently criticized Darwin's theory that living things originated without God's purposeful, creative activity. My studies included modern theologians who took Darwinism for granted and thus saw no room for God's involvement in nature or history; in the process, they re- interpreted the fall, the incarnation, and even God as products of human imagination.

Father's words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, just as many of my fellow Unificationists had already devoted their lives to destroying Marxism. When Father chose me (along with about a dozen other seminary graduates) to enter a Ph.D. program in 1978, I welcomed the opportunity to prepare myself for battle. ...

The papers, including one by James Fowler of Emory University, took it for granted that the fall of Adam and Eve was a fiction rather than a historical fact. They made this assumption because Darwinism had presumably proven that the human species originated as a slowly evolving population rather than as two created individuals who disobeyed God. ...

...... A small, powerful elite controls all the official information outlets while the evidence against the official position swells quietly, like a wave building offshore. Someday soon, to the surprise of many people in academia and the media, the wave will break. I predict that the Darwinist establishment will come apart at the seams, just as the Soviet Empire did in 1990.


_______

Why is it so important for moonites to bring down all things Darwin?

Because if Adam and Eve did not exist, Moon's whole "religion" is an exposed fraud, even to his recruits. Like most cults, the facts have to be molded to the situation. So, although Moon doesn't teach a literal interpretation of the Bible, (he thinks people who believe Jesus will return in the clouds are loopy, for instance) but when it comes to Adam and Eve, they are sacred to Moon's gambit.

Moon's whole "religion" crumbles if Adam and Eve didn't have the "fall." In Moon's game, Adam & Eve not only had to exist, Eve has to have screwed Satan which messed up humanity until "True Parents" came along to save the day. By seducing young Eve, Satan sullied the "blood lineage" of mankind. This set up the whole reason for "True Parents." TP started the perfect family, cleansing the "blood lineage" - creating the "true" family by having sinless kids. Now, for you and I to be cleansed we must have our marriages blessed by the old devil. To Moon, one of Jesus' biggest failures was that He didn't have a family. Yep, according to the view via Moon colored glasses, God's real plan was for Jesus to have had family with a big batch of sinless children. Sinless kids like Moon's oldest son, Hyo Jin. He's the son whose child bride, Nansook Hong, divorced taking their five kids declaring her "sinless" husband was on drugs and beat her when she was pregnant.

So you see, if Wells doesn't beat Darwin then he knows he's spent his entire adult life dedicated to a fraud. Again quoting Wells from the link above:

The papers, including one by James Fowler of Emory University, took it for granted that the fall of Adam and Eve was a fiction rather than a historical fact.
_____

I have been reading about the Moon organization for some time. Not often that you don't find some deceiving going on...

quoting: http://uti.dinggraphics.com/archives/000406.html

Wells is perhaps best known to the antievolution Intelligent Design Creationist (IDC) movement for his book Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth? published in 2000. The title is chosen for the format in which Wells attack's evolutionary biology, choosing what he claims are central pillars of the concepts underlying modern evolutionary biology and exposing them as fraudulent or highly suspect. The book is packed with rather amateur arguments and riddled with falsehoods from the introduction which states "During my years as a physical science undergraduate and biology graduate student at the University of California, Berkeley, I believed almost everything I read in my textbooks. I knew that the books contained a few misprints and minor factual errors, and I was skeptical of philosophical claims that went beyond the evidence, but I thought that most of what I was being taught was substantially true", thus giving the uninformed reader the impression that Wells was a trained molecular biologist who started out accepting the conventional view of evolution and common descent, but came to question it as he learned more about the details. ....

Icons only goes downhill from that first whopper as a number of reviewers have skillfully written about. I'll only add for the benefit of anyone who doesn't want to wade through it all that Wells primary shtick is to poorly present very old ideas, fringe ideas, and in some cases ideas that never even existed, about abiogenesis and evolution as the sole existing and critically essential underpinnings of the modern field of evolutionary biology, and then conclude that since it's all based on fraud, it all crumbles to dust. With the vague implication floating out there some where that somehow, some way, this would support IDC.
What's important to understand about this guy is that his books and articles aren't merely full of the clever misinformation and subtle mangling of logic found in the writing of Phillip Johnson or William Dembski. They're chock full of a dazzling array of more outright lies and the worst distortions I've seen west of Kent Hovind and Carl Baugh. The material is really, really, that bad. I'm talking gigantic stinking whoppers folks. Anyone with Internet access and a smattering of science 101 courses taken twenty years ago in the haze of a hangover could sign on, point and click, do some light reading, and see through them all in a few hours. Yet Icons is one of the primary 'textbooks' the Discovery's CSC touts as a legitimate science text and pushes on school districts they've infected with their antiscience religious agenda as a prima-facie holotype for how to 'teach the evidence against evolution'. Apparently misleading children under the aegis of science does not rate high among the moral values of Wells, The Unification Church, or The Discovery Institute. But then of course we are talking about creationists here.

_____


This is an excellent short post on ID.
Quoting: http://carringtonvanston.net/eatmywords/?keyphrase=inelegant

So what is science? Well, a big part of it is "the application of theories that are falsifiable." A theory that is not falsifiable is not a scientific theory by definition, because the most basic and essential process of science is the attempt to disprove theories.

Science requires that we supply means by which our theories may be disproved, and so if we want to include "God exists" as part of a theory we must supply a means by which God can be proven to not exist. If I cannot supply a means by which one could prove that God doesn't exist, then "God exists" is simply not part of science. It doesn't mean it's true or false, it's just outside of science. And things that are outside of science should stay outside of science classrooms.
And usually they do, unless you live in a state that elects a bunch of Creationists to your State Board of Education. Creationists who go on to Create a lesson plan that's derived in part directly from the seminal text in Intelligent Design (Jonathan Wells's Icons Of Evolution) while swearing up and down that the lesson plan doesn't actually include Intelligent Design. And then after nobody believed them, do you know how they solved the problem?

They removed the Wells book from the bibliography.

Seriously. That's it. They didn't change the plan itself, oh no. They just deleted the Intelligent Design source book from the lesson plan's bibliography. They left in the Intelligent Design material, and turned their own school lesson plan into a work of plagiarism.

______

This site has an in depth take down of Wells book.
quoting: http://www.ncseweb.org/icons/index.htm

Evolution is the unifying paradigm, the organizing principle of biology. Paradigms are accepted for their overall explanatory power, their "best fit" with all the available data in their fields. A paradigm functions as the glue that holds an entire field together, connecting disparate subfields and relating them to one another. A paradigm is also important because it fosters a research program creating a series of questions that give researchers new directions to explore in order to better understand the phenomena being studied. For example, the unifying paradigm of geology is plate tectonics; although not all geologists work on it, it connects the entire field and organizes the various disciplines of geology, providing them with their research programs. A paradigm does not stand or fall on a single piece of evidence; rather, it is justified by its success in overall explanatory power and the fostering of research questions. A paradigm is important for the questions it leads to, rather than the answers it gives. Therefore, the health of a scientific field is based on how well its central theory explains all the available data and how many new research directions it is spawning. By these criteria, evolution is a very healthy paradigm for the field of biology.....


According to Wells, the "icons" are the Miller-Urey experiment, Darwin's tree of life, the homology of the vertebrate limbs, Haeckel's embryos, Archaeopteryx, the peppered moths, and "Darwin's" finches. (Although he discusses three other "icons" -- four-winged fruit flies, horse evolution, and human evolution -- he does not evaluate textbooks' treatments of them.) Wells is right about at least one thing: these seven examples do appear in nearly all biology textbooks. Yet no textbook presents the "icons" as a list of our "best evidence" for evolution, as Wells implies. The "icons" that Wells singles out are discussed in different parts of the textbooks for different pedagogical reasons. The Miller-Urey experiment isn't considered "evidence for evolution;" it is considered part of our experimental research about the origin of life and is discussed in chapters and sections on the "history of life." Likewise, Darwin's finches are used as examples of an evolutionary process (natural selection), not as evidence for evolution. Archaeopteryx is frequently presented in discussions of the origin of birds, not as evidence for evolution itself. Finally, textbooks do not present a single "tree of life"; rather, they present numerous topic-specific phylogenetic trees to show how relevant organisms are related. Wells's entire discussion assumes that the evidence for evolution is a list of facts stored somewhere, rather than the predictive value of the theory in explaining the patterns of the past and present biological world.

___
Quoting:
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:sZ5Bf_ohzcMJ:rnaworld.bio.ukans.edu/id-intro/Sect4.html+Phillip+Johnson+uts&hl=en

Although from 1995 to 1999 Wells repeated called himself, and let himself be billed as, a "developmental biology post-doc at UC-Berkeley", in reality he never performed post-doctoral research at Berkeley or anywhere else. Instead, he was a staff member of the Discovery Institute, and his "appointment" at Berkeley was an unpaid title arranged with the help of Phillip Johnson.

_____

Quoting: http://carringtonvanston.net/eatmywords/?keyphrase=inelegant

Most dictionaries and Fox television news reporters define evolution as "the gradual process by which plants and animals arose from earlier more primitive organisms." Sounds about right, huh? If you went door to door and showed that definition to a hundred people, ninety-seven of them would agree that's what evolution is. (Two of the others were out at a movie, and the third pretended not to be home when you knocked because Final Jeopardy was coming on.)

There's only one problem with that definition, though: it's totally inaccurate. That's not what "evolution" means at all, at least not to scientists.

Evolution is actually just the process that results in heritable changes in a population over multiple generations. Or as Curtis and Barnes put it in Biology: "In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next." But that doesn't roll of the tongue too easily, does it? It's so much easier to say "gradual changes from monkey to man."

But biological evolution has nothing to do with a "gradual" process. It is, on the other hand, a straightforward and easily demonstrated one. It is a theory, but it is also a fact. In science, facts are the observable data we collect about the world, theories are collections of statements to explain and interpret those facts, and nerds are the people who do the collecting. Wait, scratch that last one. What I meant to say was that biological evolution is a fact in that we can observe it in action today and its historical evidence is overwhelming.

_________________________________
_________________________________

Mr. Wells is another example of our nation being changed - not through the free market of ideas nor any democratic process. He's another piece of the theocracy puzzle brought to you by conservative's savior and go to guy - the one who brought theofascism to the good old U.S. of A. - the one who has more to with our nation's current political situation than ANYONE.


http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. I remember that in the 80's the word "moonie" was an insult.
Any politician called a "Moonie" had been instantly stripped of credibility.

You don't hear the word in the mainstream that much anymore....hmmm, I wonder why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Because Moon is part of the GOP machine that controls the "mainstream"
media now and manipulates it for its own agenda.

This is a perfect example of how Moon has worked behind the scenes and uses the emerging fundie issues to gain control of the GOP and now, the US government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. Hey, the guy got "crowned"
In the Dirksen Senate building, long flowing robes, the whole bit officiated by your "public servants." How MORE LEGIT can you get than that? :hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. You mean the MOONstream. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. heheh....you should suggest that switch in a separate thread.
Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cell Whitman Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They don't want people to remember who they are.
They have used their ties to black preachers to latch onto the way people view the "N" word. They also want people to think Moon was unjustly "persecuted" like Jesus and Martin Luther King. IMHO, they just don't want people to associate who they are with who they are. After all, Moon had the 'Burning Ceremony' not long ago, forgiving all the members for any evil they have done in the past. So why shouldn't we all give them a pass and a fresh start whenever they ask for it? hah I mean, why not ignore how they conned, according the Japanese lawyer's estimates, BILLIONS out the Japanese. That was then - this is now - what's your problem. haha

Here's quite a read by a former member who will explain. Now a Christian, Craig Maxim used to entertain Moon in the old buzzard's mansions around the world. You will see some of how nasty these people are the end when Craig tells about his Mom...

http://www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/cup.html

ARE YOU A MEMBER OF THE MEDIA?
If so, I just want to let you know that the word "Moonie" is NOT POSSIBLY a Pejorative! After you read this article and view my evidence, then you cannot help but agree. Just briefly, let me cover a few points to PROVE without a shadow of doubt that the Moonies are LYING (Yes! Lying!) when they claim that the title Moonie is an epithet to them.


_____

For this same reason, in 1996, they changed the name from Unification Church to the Family Federation of World Peace and Unification(FFWPU) - still the Unification Church, still the same goals and plans, just a fresh name for a fresh start and strategy.

Gerald Ford and Moon's favorite shill, Poppy Bush, came by to help inaugurate the new plan and name. Here's some stills from that.



Here's a link to a MUST SEE video from which the above stills were taken. Big 46mb file but it is a historical document. Have you even seen Pat Boon serenade Mr. & Mrs. Moonster? How about Gary Bauer helping Mr. Moonpie? Ralph Reed? Robert Schuller? Can you say John 5:43?

Yes, here's video of two former presidents selling the name, honor and prestige of the office of the Presidency of the United States to the conservative's savior, the one who lead them out of the 40 year liberal wilderness, Sun Myung Moon.

http://www.standforfamily.org/media/index.htm

download: FFWPU Introductory Video

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I love this line
"That was then - this is now - what's your problem. haha"

That whole, we have been forgiven thing. Let go and let God so you do not have to take any responsiblity and if things go awry anyway, well you have been forgiven.

Talk about a win win or lose lose for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. Evolution Trial witness in Kansas outed as a MOONIE in cross-examination.
Try that headline and maybe more people will "get it" Cell.

And thanks for your vigilance. And Atrios'.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cell Whitman Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. OK changed it
Edited on Mon May-09-05 02:29 PM by Cell Whitman
I'll try about anything...heh

actually, I had been away a bit and figured that headline or one like may have been taken. This story is a bit old now...

Did think folks should know that 'Christians' are still taking Moon's lead...like Reagan, they may not know it, but they are taking his lead...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. IIRC
Moon had a huge group here in the 70's. I think it was down Emporia way. I thought they had all left but apparently they have been lurking and planning for a long long time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks.
I am here in Topeka and saw a smaller, less informative article about it somewhere this weekend.

While I can no longer defend the people of this state as fair-minded citizens like I once did it should be apparent that we have been over run by groups who had determined years ago to make this state one of the example states. Still, people here are dumb. When the school board elections came up there was no mention anywhere in any of our news sources about how the board candidates felt about this issue. It took me several days of inquiry to find out how my candidates stood. I am certain there were not too many of us out there who thought that it was important enough to do that.

I have not been able to attend these hearings as I had planned. The attorney for the side of the scientists is an ex neighbor of mine and a good friend. If I can get hold of him after this is over (that is a big IF he is very busy and difficult to get social time with) I will see if I can get any additional information that might help other states who will be dealing with this. As far as this BOE in Kansas is concerned it is already a done deal here, this is just another opportunity for the Creationists to get more press.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. If your friend needs more info on Moon's involvement then please
hook him up with Cell Whitman or John Gorenfeld or Robert Parry. Parry would be great if you can get him to cover this for consortium news. He really has a bead on Moon's political involvements.

i think the best way to turn the fundies around or at least take them down a few notches, is by exposing the manipulations of Moon behind all the fundie movement issues and his longtime funding of their supposed leaders.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cell Whitman Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The "new right" conservative Christians are Moon's
theocratic political army, imho. He gathered them up for a reason.

Read here some of why I say that.

http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

Does do my heart some good to see that people now see that theocracy can happen here. Most laughed at that a few years ago.

I still believe the theofascists are just getting started.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks.
I will bookmark this and try to get in contact with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. I can't believe how insane these people are
Can you imagine the reaction if someone complained because no one in the scientific community would admit that the events detailed in Lucas' Star Wars saga are literal fact?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. heheh. You said a mouthful.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. So your saying
perhaps Darth Vader is not Lukes father. Now I'm confused.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No. Not at all.
What I am saying is that the only way we will know is if these "Scientists" stop stalling and just run the damn paternity test already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Thanks for the comic relief, you two.
;)))))))))))))
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for your post! I have trouble believing the things I see and hear
around here lately ("here" being my physical location and NOT DU). But most people aren't willing to step back and see how crazy things are getting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It sounds like a bad movie plot, but look at the power of the LEFT BEHIND
books and their populaity.

Tim LaHaye was a longtime ally to Moon and both were considered experts in mind control back in the 70s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ya know
Edited on Mon May-09-05 06:24 PM by Jose Diablo
I think I will get an old school bus, put speakers on the top and give it a neat paint job. Do you think flames behind the engine compartment would be too much? Maybe some of those air shock things, to raise and lower the bus. A fancy wolf-whistle horn'd be kinda nice too.

Do you think I will be able to get a following of some young very attractive young thangs I can use to collect 'donations'? Maybe a few very special ones as my apprentices, handling 'personal' matters. Maybe even get a TV channel.

This religious thing has definite possibilities. It's even tax free. I could get a very nice place to live absolutely tax free.

If that dingaling Moon could do it, so can Jose Padro Maximillian Diablo.

America, ya got to love it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Panda1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent, Smithers!
From the first link alone....

Dr Wells, who holds PhDs in theology from Yale University and in biology from the University of California, Berkeley, confirmed under cross-examination that he was a member of Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church.

He's not the only one!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cell Whitman Donating Member (872 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wells after moonizing - "I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/05/AR2005050501927.html

An early witness was Jonathan Wells, a Discovery senior fellow who described himself as "an old Berkeley antiwar radical" who loves controversy.

Wells confirmed during cross-examination that he was a member of the Unification Church when he earned doctorates in theology from Yale and in biology from the University of California at Berkeley. In an Internet posting distributed outside the meeting by Kansas Citizens for Science, Wells refers to church leader Sun Myung Moon, saying, "Father's words, my studies and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism."

_____

thanks Panda, here's a link to another major takedown of Wells' book

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/

Creationist Jonathan Wells, an intelligent-design advocate affiliated with the Discovery Institute, has written a book entitled Icons of Evolution, which states that some of the best-known evidences for evolution -- such as the peppered moths, the Miller-Urey abiogenesis experiment, and the finches of the Galápagos islands -- are false, fraudulent or misrepresented in college-level textbooks. Articles found here refute Wells' book and demonstrate that the traditional, mainstream-science-supporting interpretations of these "icons" are correct.

Icon of Obfuscation
Nic Tamzek's long and comprehensive article lists Wells' "icons" and refutes his claims one by one, showing how in each case it is Wells who has promoted deceptive interpretations of these famous evidences for evolution.


Jonathan Wells and Darwin's Finches
This article examines one of Wells' "icons" -- the finch species of the Galápagos islands -- in greater detail, showing how Wells' claims about them do not stand up to scrutiny.


Wells and Haeckel's Embryos
A biologist reviews the embryology "icon" in detail and shows that contrary to Wells that embryos are evidence for evolution.


Icons of Human Evolution
A review of the "From Ape to Human: The Ultimate Icon" chapter of Icons. It is part of the Fossil Hominids section of this Archive.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Hard to believe it's not getting ANY notice in the media.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. Scratch any intelligent design supporter
And you will probably find a Moonie underneath. Remember those ads that ran in a bunch of papers a few years back signed by 100 eminent scientists? I got suspicious, mainly because these "scientists" all seemed to be math teachers and sociologists and so on, no biologists or chemistry profs. So I started googling their names. Every one I could track down was a Moonie.

I happened to be in a long-term debate online with a liberal reborn who was grasping at intelligent design. He went berserk when I said, they're probably Moonies and Fundies. When I gave him the links, the argument ended. Forever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. If you could recreate that research and posi it here, we all would do
our utmost to further it along to every media outlet we can.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. The "new-and-improved" Scopes trial was Nightline's topic on Mon
I heard nothing about Moon or Moonies.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is messed up
And Eve had sex with Satan? WTF? Go figure. Blaming women as usual. :eyes: Never take any responsibility for their actions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. According to Mormons
God had sex with the Virgin (at that point) Mary and Jesus is their son. You don't have to look far to find unconventional ideas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. No, no, no..those dipstick Moonies can't even get that story straight
Here's the straight skinny.

Eve was not the first woman. The first woman was formed from dust just like Adam, and was his equal in every way. Her name was Lilith.

Ah, she's a dark haired beauty she is.

Well, she refused to take a 'inferior' position to Adam and Adam, like many men in this regard, rejected her. And why should she? She was every bit the equal to Adam and if he was so bullheaded to reject her just for this, well he didn't deserve her, as was proved later on. I think if Adam had just a little bit more humility, well all this mess in the world would have never happened. Lilith would have followed the Lords commands in regards to the fruit of the banned tree.

So what was the Lord to do? He did want man to grow and multiply and fill the Earth, make it all like the garden. So Adam and the Lord sent her packing, she went off to dwell in caves outside the garden and became Satan wife, producing many demons for the 2 of them.

It was after banishing Lilith when the Lord caused a deep sleep to come over Adam and took a rib and formed Eve from that rib. Now Eve, she also was definitely a 10 AND she was more agreeable to letting Adam run the show. But she also because of her being so agreeable was more prone to being tempted in regards to the tree. It comes with the teritory of being so agreeable. So you get what we see today.

Eve never did the 'wild thing' with Satan, Satan already had a very desirable wife in Lilith.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC