A truly progressive candidate would demand US troop withdrawal from Iraq

[chlamor]

What exactly does "Staying in Iraq" mean? A number of things. It means we continue to watch the national treasury siphoned off by the likes of Halliburton, Lockheed and assorted War Profiteers, and that is the plan-Ask Dick Cheney. It means a diminishment or elimination of social programs and that is the plan-Ask Grover Norquist. It means the extension of the National Security State and further erosion of civil liberties, and that is the plan-Ask Alberto Gonzales and the always behind the scenes John Poindexter. It means continued rationale for US military prescence in the Middle East as a pretext for "stabilization", when of course it creates the exact opposite, and that is the plan-Ask John Negroponte. It means the continuing slaughter of Iraqi civilians and further destruction of their cultural heritage and physical infrastructure, and that is the plan-Ask Donald Rumsfeld.

All rhetoric which asserts "We can't leave now Civl War would break out" is merely a batch of pretty lies and justifications for continued occupation. It is time for all progressive candidates and people of conscious to demand the withdrawal of US troops Iraq and the withdrawal of funding from the war profiteers.



Americans have been led to believe that the persistent failures of U.S. military ventures in the "Third World" have been attributable to a lack of commitment of either money, blood or political will, and that, given sufficient investment of these commodities, there are no limits to American power. Fortunately or unfortunately, this is myth, not history. In reality, it is in the countries where the United States has made its most extensive commitments that it has experienced its greatest failures, from China in the 1940s to Korea, Lebanon (twice), Cuba, Vietnam, Angola, Iran, Somalia and now Iraq. In each case, policy has been formulated around myths of democracy and American power in place of accurate analyses of resources and interests relative to the history, politics and culture of the country in question, even though such analyses were always readily available. The result has been that popular movements in all these countries have frustrated American ambitions and won military and political victories in spite of huge economic and military imbalances in favor of the United States (Confronting the Third World, Gabriel Kolko, 1988). The only exceptions to this record of failure during the past half-century have been in small countries in the Caribbean basin that already had quasi-colonial relationships with the United States.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/020505Davies/020505davies.html

Hostage hoax

For almost a week media coverage of Iraq has been dominated by reports of a hostage-taking crisis and sectarian tension in the city of Al-Madaen. Early reports said Sunni militants had taken scores of Shia captive and were demanding Shia residents evacuate from the city.

Sunni and Shia clerics -- particularly the Al-Sadr movement -- warned the reports were a fabrication intended to stir up sectarianism. But the Western media, particularly in the US, continued reporting on the incident. On Monday, when Iraqi forces raided the city, the picture became a little clearer. They found no hostages and met with little resistance.

Addressing the Iraqi National Assembly on Monday Interior Minister Falah Al-Naquib accused Iranian intelligence of seeking to incite sectarian tension in Iraq.

"The whole saga was fabricated in order to serve the narrow sectarian interests of a group of MPs," Kadhim told reporters on Monday. "Those involved are not concerned that by making up something like this they are undermining Iraq's security and social fabric."

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/739/re9.htm

[tabasco]

1. Well, I agree.

I would call it a phased withdrawal over six months, with strong efforts to work with the UN to get peacekeeping forces deployed.

That's it. Six months and we're out. The only way out of a quagmire is to get out.

How many dead Americans before the politicians start talking like this? 58,000?

[chlamor]

2. Yes

perhaps you have seen the platform for withdrawal posted by a progressive bloc of the Dem. party. If so maybe you could post it.

[renaissanceguy]

91. Bingo. That's what we should be doing.

We can't buy into the lie "But if we say when we're leaving the 'terrists' will attack once we're gone."

I've been mulling over the arguments, and I'm convinced that this is yet another Vietnam. All we can do now is save whatever lives we can save and get the hell out of there. But that's not bushie's plan... no, he's going after Iran next. Wait until June.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272885

[understandinglife]

3. "It is time for all progressive candidates and people of conscious ...

.... to demand the withdrawal of US troops Iraq and the withdrawal of funding from the war profiteers."

Correct.

Here is one suggested, tractable strategy:

Some additions to an earlier post.

I remain convinced that a largely American funded, 750,000+ Islamic and Kurdish peace-keeping, reconstruction group (with expertise in everything from hospital administration to road building to ....), deployed under UN authorization and oversight, with logistical support from US/NATO/Russia (and perhaps China), organized and operational in Iraq by 1 June 2005, followed by orderly withdrawal of ALL US forces and personnel from Iraq is both tractable and something that every Nation on the planet would likely support.
One way that could happen is for the President of the USA to send a letter to the Secretary General of the UN offering to support such a plan.

You, and many others, have listed all the reasons why the current President of the USA will not do that and why most folk in Congress are not prepared to make him do it.

OK. So here is how "We The People....." make it happen.

Pull out all the stops, get all the organizations on the just and legal side of this issue -- Truthout, PDAmerica, TrueMajority, RawStory, VelvetRevolution...................all of them to coordinate a nation-wide work stoppage and school attendance boycott of at least 50 million Americans with the message being that "We The People...." are in charge.

Until the President sends the letter to the UN specifying something like what I've suggested above, the Nation comes to a halt.

No one gets on a train, an airplane, a bus.

No one buys gasoline.

No one goes to movies.

No one goes to Walmart. Etc.

During the time of the boycott, folk can turn their attention to cleaning their streets and parks, helping the homeless, and other civil service acts.

We bring the Nation to a halt -- peacefully.

Once we have the UN moving forward on the peace-keeping, "We The People...." can then turn our attention to the illegalities of the war and the torture of Iraqis and other matters and indict and prosecute those responsible. In doing so, we need to assert in a way not seen since the formation of America, that "We The People...." will hold responsible those whom we elect (and pay and provide wonderful benefits via our tax dollars) to do their jobs -- in a legal and ethical and intelligent manner.

Peace.
"Do you enjoy being a citizen of THE rogue, ruthless super_power?"
by understandinglife on Fri Mar 11th, 2005 at 04:36:29 PM EST

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/11/16342/7080

This post at TO led to a dialogue with DUers puebloknot and sfexpat2000 and was the genesis of www.missionnotaccomplished.us

Fact is we must execute a logistically stable exit from Iraq, NOW. And, with the vast capacity of mankind to forgive, if we do so in a way that indicates that the USA is now transitioning from a petulant, childish imperialist into a stable, collaborating global partner, we likely will find forgiveness and a willingness to cooperate.

Won't be easy; we have much to prove.

But, we must begin to do so because it is the only ethical and sustainable way for our Nation to interact with our fellow inhabitants of planet earth.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[chlamor]

4. I shall

make copies of that platform and distribute with the intent of organizing in our locale.

I assume this is fine.
That is an excellent course of action. How to get numbers to act on this is the difficulty. How to get folks to see what danger we are in with this atrocity concocted by the PNACers and Neo-liberal crew.

We must stop this insanity-Much is in the balance.

Peace

[understandinglife]

5. Distribute far and wide. Yes, it will be a matter of gathering...

...support. But, it's been done before and it must be done again.

Peacefully is ultimately the most convincing way to proceed, irrespective of how much hardship one might, personally, have to withstand.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (a day to reflect on why, as we begin to do what we must)

[merh]

7. How to get numbers to act?

One by one and as many as possible. All we can do is try and take it one step at a time. To not try is to be an accomplice to their crimes.

I will join you in trying to stop the insanity and in trying to make others understand and care enough to try.

Thank you.

[understandinglife]

22. Nominated. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (what are you going to begin doing to save humanity and create a dignified America?)

[postulater]

18. Sounds like a good idea

It will take a while to get 50 million people aware of it and willing to take part, especially if they think it's a one time thing that won't really make a difference.

But if it starts small and grows over time, it might work. Something like at first just a single minute of non-cooperation at a given time on a given day. Then the next month five minutes, then the next month an hour, then the next month a couple hours. Keep it growing as awareness grows. Soon there will be widespread awareness and growing numbers of people willing to take part.

It might take several months but would eventually snowball.

[Just Me]

20. If we were able to coordinate ALL groups and organizations,...

,...including the parallel and constituent ones (and we are talking literally thousands across this nation),...this would not only be feasible but an incredibly impactful platform.

I believe it's possible.

[merh]

28. Count me in - point me in a direction

give me instructions, tell me what I can do to help coordinate other organization.

The mission was NOT accomplished and we have to tell our "leaders" that we know that and we want them out of Iraq. We don't want them to continue killing, maming and torturing in our names. NOT IN OUR NAMES.

So on May 2, the anniversary of one of their lies, for there have been so many, we stop buying, we don't feed the corporate monsters. We take the time to reflect on what it means to be a member of our community and an American. We give back to those who have given so much for us, we take care of those that this admin has foresaken, we remember who is important and what is important. We take the time to be heard, but not with violence. We make our collective voices heard by giving and caring and doing for the good of others, while at the same time, doing nothing that feeds the coffers of the corporations that control our nation.

A dear friend wrote this for me and it sums it all up.

Everything you say,
I need to hear
and fear to know,
a little.

People are strange that way.

We work too much, we worry too much
we want too much
We want peace too much,
the end of horror, too much
the end of death, too much
to speak too much.

So, just for one day
one day which is between
one sun rising and
one falling into the dark

We won't buy
won't clock in
won't pump that gas
won't agree
to this spree
of lies, of death or misery.

merh, you let me know
if that sounds right to you,
and I'll try to listen.

All I know is,
I can't do this
any more.

I just want one day,
one whole one
to say, no
you do your killing without me
my sons or my wallet.
Do it if you can, while you can
until we stop your ass.

In other words, "My BFEE friend,
you are on your own. I won't line your pockets
with my children."

Mission NOT Accomplished.

ef/4/18/2005

[understandinglife]

32. merh, you are out-front and leading! You don't need instructions from ...

...anyone!! Just keep doing all you are.

Peace and Thank you.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[merh]

34. Thank you UL, that is kind of you to say

I am hoping others will help guide me. If Just Me can tell me who to write to, what organizations can I pester, who can I torment, then I will follow Just Me's lead, I will take the advice and my keyboard will know no mercy.

I am stubborn and I am determined. They cannot be allowed to continue to persecute, prosecute and abuse in my name. This is my nation and I want it back! :argh:

On edit:
Oops, excuse the broken computer - no violence please. Frustration is understandable and shared by millions, but please, this is a peaceful, yet determined effort to oppose the evil, the destruction, the killing.

O8) :patriot:

[Just Me]

36. You have the power,...I can only offer how I use mine.

The first time I was compelled to be an activist,...I just didn't know what to do.

Hence, I offer what works for me,...to you.

However, your own passion will be your power.

Here's what I do - have done:

I concentrate getting the information out to all those who I already know and I find all those organizations within my state (and states where I have contacts) that could be interested. I do a search for every organization that advocates for civil rights, human rights, anti-war, peace, veterans, environment, equal rights, unions and fair wages, interfaith, secularism, humanism, and any other organization I can think of that would be interested in taking the actions being organized that exist within my state or states where I have lived.

I make a list of all those contacts (including "contact" name, address, phone number and EMAIL) and do a quick check of their mission to make sure their goals are consistent with the "name" of each organization ('cause, sometimes, organizations create a deceptive name, as you know). You can usually do the foregoing in less than a couple of hours.

Then,...I contact them!!! I work to perfect the message I want to spread. I always start out with a brief description of me,...that I am passionate about the ideals of democracy, returning the power of our country to the interests of "the people", and working to take back our country (express your passion in your words). Then, I inform them that, a unified nationwide movement is developing and link information about that movement, in this case from
www.missionnotaccomplished.us

Hope I helped to ignite you. But, remember, only your passion will drive your action and your power.

:hug: We can do this,...together!!!

[merh]

37. Thank you Just Me.

This is great, just what I need, a road map to follow. I will take your advice.

Thank you so very much. :pals:

[merh]

39. kick

:kick:

[understandinglife]

29. I agree. It is not only possible, but we have what it takes to make ...

....it happen.

It's the 'geometric progression enabled by the net' that can work for us, quite well. And, we already have 'trigger mechanisms' for subsequent MNA 'events.' Per se:

Simply, thank you! And, as to a 'trigger' for ...

....subsequent events, here is an idea we are 'floating':

We will monitor US deaths in Iraq. When 22 additional Americans have died, starting from 0001 3 May 2005, we will do a mass emailing/faxing/broadcasting of the 5-2-5 knotted rope icon. The following day, we 'rest, reflect, refrain from any economic activity, and remember.'

For countries with soldiers, staff in Iraq, we will urge them to do the same.

For Iraqi's and those who do not have soldiers and staff in Iraq, we will urge them to act when 22 Iraqi's have died.

Why 22?

To always remember March 19th (2003) launch of the illegal attack and occupation of Iraq -- March is the 3rd month + 19th day = 22.

The inherent asynchrony of this strategy is crucial. We want to limit an ability of those disinterested and corrupt parties to the criminal occupation of Iraq to anticipate.

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/28/11156/2195

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN............)

[merh]

35. UL - I just sent a copy of your post

http://www.one.org /

to http://theonecampaign.org/About.aspx

:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3533185

[EFerrari]

6. May 2 is a good day to reject the "fabrications"

because everyone remembers that sign announcing, "Mission Accomplished" -- that we paid for, by the way.

So, how long do we keep funding our own destruction? Because that is exactly what we are doing as long as we agree, even through our silence, to this insane war.


This insane war being only one manifestation of the heart of our government. Let's not kid ourselves.

Who can you forward this link to, guys? We need your help to get this going:

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

And this will only be the first MNA day. We keep them going until we're OUT of Iraq, and until we win a "regime change" at home. Mr. Chavez in Venezuela called Bush and his government a "public menace". We know, even better than he does, how true that is.

Join us. Even if only by thinking how you might support this effort on May 2 and by forwarding the link. We're the grown ups now, this is our job.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

peace,
Beth

[chlamor]

9. Here is what my plans are for May 2

Have you seen the quite lengthy essay "What I Heard About Iraq?" Many direct quotes from the PNAC criminals are included which are contradictory to not only the truth but to some of their previous statements which are also included in the essay.

I plan to be in our town commons and read the entire essay with a 'Mission Accomplished' banner surrounded by images from the Iraq War which I have downloaded and enlarged. I am considering an appropriate outfit for the read, something to convey the seriousness of the situation.

[EFerrari]

12. chlamor, that's just awesome!

We're still planning but are in touch with our VA hospital -- which is desparately trying to stay open here in San Francisco.

(And you know, that Abe Lincoln thing is very big right now. :hi: )

[mike_c]

8. I will not support any politician at any level of government...

...who does not call for-- and pledge to work for-- a full withdrawal, beginning IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, the pipeline out is too narrow to support an immediate and complete withdrawal, but full civil and military authority should be handed over to the Iraqi government immediately and the withdrawal accomplished as rapidly as possible. I should think a preliminary fall back to Kuwait could be accomplished in about a month or so, if it had to be.

As for the fate of the Iraqi government that receives power-- that's not our concern, frankly. Civil authority has to be given to SOMEONE, now that we've destroyed the previous government, but whether that authority persists will be up to the Iraqis. If the present government does not enjoy their support, then let it fall, and be replaced by whatever institution the Iraqis can create-- by whatever process they choose. Yes, it's a recipe for disaster. That shouldn't surprise anyone. We created the circumstances in which that disaster-- and its human consequences-- will occur. It's time for Americans to face this. We are not going to emerge with white hats. I only hope that one day we have the national courage to face what we've done, and make amends-- and prosecute those responsible.

Maintaining the occupation of Iraq to avert that disaster only compounds the wrong that this nation has already committed. Mike_c's corollary of the pottery barn rule: we broke it, so it's just fucking broken. Time to stop pounding it into smaller and smaller pieces.

[understandinglife]

13. "Time to stop pounding it into smaller and smaller pieces." In_deed. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN..........)

[renaissanceguy]

92. That's a great line.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272885

[EFerrari]

14. "We broke it, so it's just fucking broken. Time to stop pounding it

into smaller pieces."

Truer words! Thank you, I'm putting that one in my pccket.

[Jacobin]

10. We're gonna have to slink out of there, like we did Viet Nam

Gene McCarthy tried the direct approach and got trounced for his efforts.

Then the war was "vietnamized" (see: Iraqi National Guard Defending Themselves tm), we withdrew partially and then our remaining troops were run out on a rail.

However, until we get to that point, needless tens of thousands will be required to die and be maimed, and a draft will need to be re-instated, and college kids will have to start burning down recruiting centers, and the moral majority will have to get all outraged, and President Whoever It Is in 2015 will finally slink out of there, pulling the remaining troops off of rooftops in overloaded helicopters.

This country never fucking learns.

[understandinglife]

11. I urge you to continue doing whatever you can to educate our ....

....fellow citizens.

We can do better than 'slink out,' and with your help we can demonstrate just how much better we can do.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (a day to reflect on why as we prepare for all we are going to do)

[Jacobin]

17. I worked hard for Gene McCarthy's campaign

in large part because I faced the draft as my college deferment was about to end at graduation. It was a very hard time, to see friends going off to get blown up, coming back with PTSD, 'silent majority' willing to continue the horror indefinitely, kids shot on campus.....

I did everything I could to talk to people before the invasion of Iraq. Had all the same earmarks of attempting to occupy a country without a reason that made any sense. I remember going to a restaraunt the night the ShockNAwe(tm) started and peeked into the bar and watching people, DOZENS of them fucking CHEERING, like it was some kind of goddamned football game or something. I literally became sick to my stomach and walked out.

This country is like an overgrown, spoiled, dangerous, giant with a fucking pea for a brain.

I'm sorry to ramble on and not answer your post. I do everything I can, talk to people who will listen about my perception of the hopelessness of this colonialism. Guess I'm getting old and sad and worn out and disgusted and am fighting off a huge temptation to just say "fuck it"

[understandinglife]

21. Worked for RFK's campaign in Texas; demonstrated against...

...the war in Vietnam in San Antonio Texas starting in 1967 (dangerous thing to do; folk weren't happy with me and I didn't even have long hair ;-) )....in other words, I share your frustration.

But, I also share your commitment to our Nation and I sense that you are a long way from saying 'f*^$ it.'

We each do what we can, ever day. America is a very young Nation.

It is in the spoiled brat stage and has been since the end of WWII.

We who understand that have to do all we can to help others transition because humanity depends on us to direct our vast capacity for good and our resources to something other than PNACmania and theocratic godlessness.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN............)

[Jacobin]

24. There are glimmers of hope here and there

I sense among the RWers where I live a distinct distaste for the fundies coming out of the closet with their Terri S. drivel, and the attacks on judges, which I find very ironic since the judges I know are all Baptist deacons, or the like.

That ten percent of voters in the middle....if they figure out they need to stop voting out of fear and the thought that RWer's can "save them from the towel heads" and open their eyes (in spite of the propaganda) and see what the neo-cons are doing to the economy and and place in the world, we just might have a chance.

[Just Me]

15. I strongly agree!!!!

We all know PNAC calls for permanent US presence and additional dominance over the Middle East. We all know that the propagandists will "create" whatever faux perceptions (even circumstances, if necessary) to fulfill the mission/goals of PNAC. We all know that the neoCONs backing the PNAC are willing to funnel as much of the American people's human and financial resources to achive their goals. We all know that, while the American people and Iraqi people (and future other Middle Eastern people) will be forced to sacrifice life and land, the neoCONs and their constituents will profit from PNAC.

So, why the hell would any self-proclaimed liberal or progressive or, for that matter, conservative or libertarian or otherwise,...approve this utter corrupt bullshit?

:shrug:

Crazy!!!!

[EFerrari]

19. Nitty gritty, Just Me. Help us get the link out.

You know, they love to think we all watch fox and shrug and are too overtired and stressed out to think.

Let's f#ck with that perception, shall we?

In my heart, I'd just love to get a "HA!" brigade together. Every time the Pentagon investigates itself and issues a fake report, I'd just love thousands of people to email them: "HA!!"

Scare the pants off of these chicken hawk felons.

But, all I can do for now is get the word out for this one day. Help us!

[Just Me]

23. I'm in!!! I've been feeling juiced for another battle!!!

Tomorrow, will be another "contact" day. I have a list of contacts, coast to coast. I'll spread the word via www.missionnotaccomplished.us about initiating another "unite and fight to take back our country"!!!

We can do this!!

I still think we should bring the masses to the media since the media refuses to acknowledge our masses. That's a discussion for another day.

Do y'all have a list of the orgs you'll be contacting? Maybe, we can brainstorm about all the orgs which would be interested in uniting in this expedition.

[EFerrari]

25. Fantastic! I'm going to sit down tonight and put two lists together

Orgs I already contacted and want to remind; orgs/individuals I can contact.

You know have many people we can reach when we put minds to :)

Let's keep this thread kicked and regroup in the morning. If anyone's light bulb comes on, please share.

We've already contacted a bunch of folks. Will Pitt put it out at TruthOut, I put it out in my local column and to the bigger boards I frequent.

Let's hook it up.

B.

[EFerrari]

16. I was just a really young teen when we finally left Viet Nam

And who bore the pain? Our service people. Who bore the anger and resentment and frustration? Our military people, our uniformed people.

That's about 12 kinds of wrong.

This time, we saw it coming BEFORE we invaded. We're 'way ahead of the game, believe it or not, compared to those days.

Let's not lose that knowledge. Let's learn something from Viet Nam.

On May 2, we don't fund the war profiteers; we hold ALL public servants accountable; we don't blame Lindy England for the Bu$hCo policy on detention and torture -- we get with our people and keep reaching for more.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[chlamor]

26. "We hold ALL public servants accountable"

Add to the list a coordinated phone campaign to TELL (not defer and weasel around) all those who voted for the WAR CHEST that they are not only responsible for the deaths of Iraqi children but also for the loss of school lunch programs, for the increase in family violence (a violent culture sets a violent example), for an increase in homelessness (how many Vets come home fucked up and destitute ending up out on the street).

All Dems who keep voting for the war profiteers are just as responsible in my eyes. They NEED to feel the heat.

[understandinglife]

30. During the week of 25 April, I plan to call each of their offices and...

...inform them of exactly what MNA May 2 2005 means.

I intend to assure them that what begins on May 2 2005 will not stop until America acts as a responsible, ethical and truly caring Nation.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[chlamor]

33. What was the breakdown

I heard it was 99-0 for the so-called supplemental. Is that right? I wouldn't be surprised. I too am on the phone next week raising hell to the so-called liberal Dems who claim to care for social programs and then pull the rug by spending the funds on the war machine.
How's your local library doing?

Everybody's having to 'make do' except Raytheon.

[More Than A Feeling]

27. Ten years later..."We can't leave now or there will be civil war!"

There will be civil war no matter what, and the only question is how many soldiers have to die before that happens.

[chlamor]

31. And the Psy-Ops keep on going

so as to provide a smokescreen and rationale for continued occupation and the means for agitation and destabilization. The US media consumer will just see this as civil strife not knowing much about Negroponte and battalion 316 and historical patterns.


Found this from a blog which is average but sometimes has good stuff- it seems to fit the overall pattern of chaos as the theme:

Is it possible “bizarre psy-war operations” are under way in Iraq, especially now that Rumsfeld’s Strategic Support Branch (SSB) has been “operating in secret for two years—in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places” (as the Washington Post reported in January)? As I wrote at the time, the Strategic Support Branch is essentially Rumsfeld’s own personal version of the CIA. “Pentagon officials said they established the Strategic Support Branch using ‘reprogrammed’ funds, without explicit congressional authority or appropriation. Defense intelligence missions, they said, are subject to less stringent congressional oversight than comparable operations by the CIA,” according to the Post (see previous link). As I noted at the time, Rumsfeld’s SSB cooperates with the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC), a clandestine unit run out of the Tampa-based U.S. Special Operations Command. “Although JSOC’s stated purpose is to provide a unified command structure for conducting joint special operations and exercises, it is widely reported that JSOC is actually the command responsible for conducting US counter-terrorism (CT) operations. JSOC is reported to command the US military’s Special Missions Units (SMUs). These SMUs are tasked with conducting CT operations, strike operations, reconnaissance in denied areas, and special intelligence missions,” notes GlobalSecurity. “Much of the hunting for senior Taliban and al Qaeda members in Afghanistan is being conducted by a unit called Task Force 11, composed mostly of Delta Force soldiers and SEALs.”

http://www.kurtnimmo.com/blog/

[Djinn]

40. this is the way I see it too

the US will never install a government that is truly supported by the Iraqi people as the Iraqi people will not ever approve of the wholsale selloff of their country.

If there's going to be a civil war then there will be one whenever the US pulls out but by then there may well be little left for Iraqi's to fight for.

The hypocracy of western nations means they will never be able to "impose" democracy (not that they actually want to) you can not feasbily expect people to beleive that killing their friends families and neighbours is in their own best interests, that privatising industries formerly run for the benefit of the people (OK so in Iraq it was mainly for the benfit of Saddam but until the sanctions Iraqi's had a better medical and education system than many estern nations have and the water and electricty etc actually worked) is in their best interests. You certainly can't convince them you're working "for democracy" when your allies include Pakistan and Saudi.

It's worrying that many liberals seem to beleive the lies about not being able to leave because Iraqi's can't possibly run their own affairs.

[merh]

38. kick

:kick:

[EFerrari]

41. kick

:kick:

[Just Me]

42. Alrighty. I've just about completed my "contact" assignment.

I'm having to tweak info packages: those I'm sending to friends, those I'm sending to orgs with whom I am a member, and those new local orgs my research has revealed as potential good contacts.

Should we also make an effort to post this movement on as many popular progressive blogs as possible? If so, which ones should we focus on?

:bounce:

[Just Me]

43. Email to family, friends, fellow activists:

Hi Y'all!!!

I have news about another united front developing across the country. I am passing that information on to you because this movement has great potential and is worthy of our networking efforts.

Today, if you have a moment to forward the following information to family, friends, constituents and organizations interested in uniting our passions in an impactful way, please pass it on:

MAY 2, 2005, A NATIONAL DAY OF
REMEMBRANCE, RENEWAL AND REDEMPTION

"The time for our new reality is now. We will not fund death, whether from war or neglect by an avaricious and uncaring government.

Join us on May 2, 2005 in a nationwide action to remember our true values, and to change the course of our Ship of State."

www.missionnotaccomplished.us


LIGHT & PEACE TO YOU!!!

[merh]

44. Wow, I don't need my glasses to read your post.

lol

Kick this for the progressives out there. I know they are out there, they just have to be! :bounce:

[understandinglife]

47. Fantastic!! Thank you. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[bobthedrummer]

45. Dennis Kucinich has consistantly called for that.

:patriot:

[merh]

46. Then God bless Dennis Kucinich!

We need more calls for this! :patriot:

[merh]

48. My afternoon kick

:kick:

[renaissanceguy]

93. I hope he runs for Senate.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272885

[morgan2]

49. Completely disagree

there is no reason for us troops to withdraw, IF a progressive is guiding them. The whole problem with us troops being there, is they're part of the Bush agenda to rape Iraq. If someone who wasnt valueing their crazy reverse keysian economic approach to economic planning over the security of the country, things would be a lot better.

[chlamor]

50. There is every reason to leave

What reason other than rape-pillage -plunder has there ever been for invasion of a sovereign nation which did nothing to your country, which was no threat to anyone etc.?

Guiding who? To do what? The Iraqi people by more than 80% want US troops out. It's their house, that's all you need to know. OUT NOW!

And be clear that if you support continued (Progressive?) occupation you support the elimination of social programs here. You support the furtherance of the National Security State. You support the elimination of education funds. You support the bloated Pentagon budget etc. All these things are connected.

A Progressive Occupation (Yikes!) is imperialism in khakis. Softer-Gentler terrorism by the kindly souls in fatigues? Not possible.

US troops have no right to be in anyones house unless invited.

OUT NOW!

[DerekG]

80. You have a preference for "progressive" butchers?

Is it our lot to long for the days when "benevolent" imperialists like Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson were setting countries afire, cloaking their sins with Fair Deals and Great Societies?

Beware the militarist liberal.

[madfloridian]

51. Then could the people who want Kucinich or Nader be honest.

At least don't come here and call Howard Dean a turncoat and imperialist. And yes this is about him, and it is about the party being torn apart at a vulnerable time.

Make your 3rd party, but let the Democratic party alone.

[welshTerrier2]

52. Howard Dean continues to support bush's occupation of Iraq

i would not call Dean a turncoat or an imperialist ... i don't think his intention in supporting bush's policies are to support bush's imperialism ...

but make no mistake about it, if Democrats don't call for withdrawal and continue to fund bush's imperialism, then US policy will enable that imperialism ...

being an enabler of imperialism is hardly a virtue ...

[Itsthetruth]

58. A Big Huh?

" i don't think his intention in supporting bush's policies are to support bush's imperialism ..."

Of course not. What better way to demonstrate opposition to Bush's "imperialism" than by supporting Bush's policies?

Huh?

[welshTerrier2]

63. there is a difference between intent and effect

i hold the greatest disgust for Democrats who continue to endorse bush's hideous policies ... sadly, i think the purpose for this support is that the Democratic Party is terrified of being labeled as "weak on defense" ... they somehow have developed the very twisted view that not "cutting and running" (talk about poor framing) will make them appear weak, un-American and anti-military ... they are choosing "political pragmatism" (which it is not, btw) over doing the right thing for the country and the Iraqi people ...

that's what i was trying to point out in my post ... their motivations for the current pro-occupation position the Democratic Party holds are nothing more than misguided political expediency ...

i do not think that most elected Democrats and the DNC are seeking a permanent military presence in Iraq ... this differs very substantially from the neo-con motivation for occupation ...

my point was that the two parties have very different objectives ... and my point was that in the end, regardless of their motivations, the Democrats are doing nothing but enabling bush's imperialism ... there's a huge difference in the motivations for "war"; there's no difference in the result ...

imperialism is imperialism ... the intent is political victory; the effect is imperialism ...

[renaissanceguy]

94. Which is why there was big debate before about

making a timetable, after passing the war budget earlier this year. The Dems want to support the troops there with adequate armor, but want to make sure they get out of there soon. The repugs just want to make sure their oil fields are secure, and couldn't care less about human life. Maybe if we suggested the fetuses go out there and fight...then we'd have the war stopped immediately.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272885

[merh]

53. I wish folks would stop hijacking threads, trying to start flame

wars for or against a candidate or a dem leader.

I say more power to Howard Dean's efforts to strengthen and restore party. :patriot:

BUT -- continuing with the maddness that is this war, supporting the occupation and attempts to colonize another nation, under the guise of democracy or "we broke it so we got to fix it" is not progressive and is wrong.

This is not an anti-Dean thread so please don't make it one. This is an ANTI-WAR - PRO-PEACE - STOP THE MADNESS -- NOT IN MY NAME thread.

Peace to you, please allow peaceful discussions to continue in this thread.

:pals:

[madfloridian]

54. I fought the battle yesterday about this.

I will back off unless what went on yesterday comes up again. Then I will stand up for it again.

I was dead set against this war, too. I am not your enemy.

[merh]

56. I am glad you are not my enemy

I don't think many on DU are my enemy or yours.

We have to put aside the damned "support of my candidate over your's" mentality and fight for the common good.

Wait until 2006 or 2007 to fight for a candidate. Today, let's fight together for our nation, for the world. :pals:

[madfloridian]

57. Oh hell, not about a damn candidate.

If that is all you think, then I will not even reason with you.

[madfloridian]

59. When did this become about a candidate? You said it.

I am busy standing up for honesty about what Dean has always said. Two groups are lying about it, and I am watching. That is all.

I don't have a candidate, remember?

[merh]

60. Chip - shoulder -

ground

It is about letting the "candidates" know what we expect of them. Not what they ran on, but what we want them to run on, what we demand they do for the sake of this nation and the world.

To be honest candidates, deserving candidates, they should pay attention to the desires of their party, to the needs of the people. No candidates were mentioned in the OP, just the concept of what a progressive candidate should stand for and against.

I saluted another candidate when a poster said that is what he has always stood for and I will support Dean :patriot: if it makes you feel better.

You want honesty, realize that you spend a lot of time defending Dean. If he stands for all you believe he stands for, he will not need your defense, he will not need your protection, his actions will speak loud enough and his efforts will prove his progessive and patriotic ways.

[madfloridian]

61. I will defend any candidate against any lies.

I always have.

I have no problem with getting out of Iraq, but when the two Kevins are saying the party chair suddenly changed his mind...then I defend.

If there no lies like that I will back off. Just don't tell me I am supporting a candidate. I don't have one yet. Mine is the party chair and said he would not run.

I will defend against lies.

[merh]

67. Feel free to defend away, if you are that uncertain about your

man's ability to prove the doubters and "liars" wrong. Defend away.

But note, there haven't yet, and I caution yet because you are the one who came into our happy little thread, ready to pick a fight and making derogatory comments about the other dem leaders and possible candidates, so please monitor away, but take your negative comments elsewhere.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

68. No, I made no negative comments about other leaders.

That is simply not true. I heard that two progressive groups would use Howard Dean as the scapegoat to start up the Iraq pull-out push.

I think I have seen some of it here. I don't like it. I like Kucinich and Nader is fine. I don't like those who try to undermine the party at a crucial time.

I think it is fine to advocate pulling out, but I am just making sure yesterday does not happen again.

Iraq is not Dean's fault. Blame those who voted for it.

[merh]

69. Then I raise my glass to Dean

:toast: May his actions speak as louder as your defensive words!

I pray you are right.

Peace!

[madfloridian]

71. It is not his job, it is the job of congress. Thanks for the toast anyway

:hi:

[merh]

74. Then why the heck do you come here to defend him.

Will nothing make you happy? It is his job, as the leader of the party, to let the other members (including those in congress) that our party is against the war, if that is the desires of the people who make up the party.

Damn. :argh:

[madfloridian]

75. Do you not blame the ones who voted for it?

No, he was told he could not set policy, just build the party.

I think progressive groups might be using him as a scapegoat instead of blaming the ones who voted for it in 2002.

[merh]

77. See, that is where you get all confused!

I blame those who won't accept the responsibility today - as far as I am concerned, blaming folks for the vote is a waste of my energy. Kind of like blaming my mother because I can't sleep without a night light.

We are at war, the war is wrong and we need to get the hell out of their. NO MORE KILLING IN MY NAME.

He is a big boy and allegedly pretty saavy politically, so he can shape policy at the same time he builds the party, that is, if he is as great as you want me to believe.

[madfloridian]

78. Deliberately missing the issue. Progressives using him as scapegoat.

Instead of contacting the members of congress to complain and tell them who want us to get out.

It is childish to keep repeating that I am promoting Dean. I am promoting honesty.

[merh]

79. Ah, no you are promoting Dean, who you apparently believe is the

only honest man on the planet. But that is okay. We all need our heros, just be honest with yourself.

Not missing any issue, the past is the past. I don't disagree that we need to continue contacting members of congress, that is a given for pete's sake and what this thread is about.

Dean has more power than we do, let his actions speak as loudly as your words that are not defending him and your thirst for honesty!

:beer:

[madfloridian]

81. No, I defend against the lies.

(I edited to put a word in the subject line I left out...)

I am going to be on guard, as are others, as two or perhaps more progressive groups use him as their scapegoat to call attention to the anti-war rallies and effort. The ones you should use that way are the ones who voted for it.

This is about the progressives who are willing to hurt the party right now by holding the wrong person accountable for the war. You must not have been here yesterday.

I have become hardened to the crap you guys spew out about the various candidates. I am not yet hardened to the truth.

I believe if you are a true supporter of Kucinich you would not want to hurt the party. This is what I am about. Very little to do with Dean, lots to do with the party. More to do with being willing to hurt the Democratic Party to form a 3rd party.

You know exactly what I mean, and you are acting childish about this. If you want to hurt the party, you send two progressive groups after its head...keep him busy defending himself...while you effectively form a 3rd party which at this point in time will be unable to get off the ground. I know what I am talking about, and I will keep an eye out.

[merh]

82. And where, pray tell, do you see any of that in this thread?

Damn, get over it - go tilt at your windmills somewhere else.

If Dean is not going to take to heart the desires of a majority of the members of the party TODAY, NOW, then he deserves the attacks.

Let his actions speak for themselves. The only one being childish is you, defending the man when nothing derogatory about him has been said in this thread. It is up to us to keep him informed and on his toes.

And it is defending against the lies, not defending the lies. Honesty is good, we ALL need to be a little more honest!

:hi:

[madfloridian]

85. Not defending the man. Defending his being used.

He did not vote for that awful war. I just want to keep an eye out that he is not held responsible for a position he had for over 2 years.

Blame the ones who voted for it. I have not attacked you, and I have a right to post.

I am saying what I hear is going to happen. You can do it, but know we are aware.

[merh]

88. WTF

"I am saying what I hear is going to happen. You can do it, but know we are aware."

:wtf:

Who are you hearing this from and why are you warning me? And who the hell is "WE"? It is almost as if you are threatening me.

Damn, chill already!

[merh]

98. Kick

:kick:

[chlamor]

83. Beware of Slavishly

adhering to any party doctrine and steer clear of Iconic Politics.

Dean and all others who do not call for withdrawal must become irrelevent and receive no support so that our children can get school lunch programs. So that the Iraqi children can sleep at night knowing a screaming explosive won't crush through their window or their dreams.

Realpolitik

[madfloridian]

86. Don't lecture me like that.

This is not about politics. This is about progressive groups planning on using a good man to further their own ends. I have made myself clear.

[chlamor]

89. This is about stopping the War

[H2O Man]

96. While I agree with

a good deal of what you are saying, and have a different opinion on some issues, I want to point out that you are on shakey ground when you ascribe specific motivations to groups of people who are strongly anti-war and who are offended by what they see as Dean's support for the Bush war in Iraq. I think we have to take people at their word in this case. Being familiar with some of the people that you are debating, I am confident that they are honest, sincere, and loyal democrats. While I do not pretend to speak for them, I think it seems clear they believe that one cannot compromise on the truth of the war being evil. They see Dean as compromising. The democratic party is not going to be injured by grass-roots members who take an uncompromising stance.

That said, I would hope that people could also accept that Dean is honest in his beliefs. Though he may have changed his stance based on information we think is wrong, and we may feel that he is wrong, we should be open to the idea that within the democratic party, there is a variety of views on Iraq.

I'm confident that even among those who today sincerely believe we have reason to stay there, tomorrow they will see that we needed to get out yesterday.

[merh]

99. No one attacked Dean!

The Dean defender road in and read us the riot act - "I'm watching you" don't defame a good man!

:scared: :rofl:

We are talking about being heard. This is not a my dog is bigger or more honest than your dog.

[H2O Man]

100. I understand.

Just because I'm senile doesn't mean that I don't.

[merh]

102. No one said you were senile!

What the heck, trying to put forth progressive messages and having to defend posts, dagnabit, that just isn't right.

You are the least senile person on DU. :hug:

Now, if you want cantakerous, I will accept that title and claim it as my own. x(

Peace! :pals:

[H2O Man]

103. The cantakerous title?

Get in line!

[chlamor]

62. "At least don't come here.."-Huh?

Maybe you are so concerned about a candidate or party so much that you see through that lens and perceive no other means or methods for political renewal and sanity. This thread had nothing to do with Howard Dean-The politics of Personalities is not only a dead end but is a tedious distraction. If you or anyone thinks Dean-Kerry or even Kucinich-Nader are going to save your/our bacon from the stranglehold of the Military State you aren't paying attention. Howard Dean is not nor has never been evenly remotely close to being a "progressive" whatever that means to you. His record in Vermont isn't particularly enlightened. you may also wish to see who he surrounds himself with. Again the main point of this thread is anti-war and what YOU can do to get involved and act directly rather than waiting for some 'candidate' to lead the way. Absolutely ZERO chance of that latter scenario occuring. YOU are the answer-WE must take responsibility.

Here:

Indeed, Dean's earliest statements on foreign policy in the presidential campaign were written with the help of one of the architects of the war in Afghanistan, Danny Sebright, who held the Orwellian title of Director of the Executive Secretariat for Enduring Freedom at the Pentagon under Donald Rumsfeld. Sebright oversaw military operations that claimed the lives of over 3,000 civilians without achieving the stated objective of finding and arresting Ossama bin Laden. Under the Clinton administration, Sebright worked at the Pentagon helping to oversee weapons sales to the Middle East during the period in which the U.S. became the largest weapons exporter in the world.

<snip>

Dean comes from the centrist wing of the Democratic Party, and draws his advisors from the party's establishment, even though he tries to portray himself as a progressive and an outsider. His opposition to the war in Iraq isn't rooted in the moral vision or poltical analyis of the peace movement, but rather in the foreign policy establishment's skepticism about the rash and impulsive nature of the Bush administration's military actions in Iraq. In remarks to the Council on Foreign Relations last June, Dean said that: "America must not shy away from its role as the remaining superpower in the world. We are, as Madeleine Albright once put it, the "indispensable power" for so many challenges around the world. Inevitably, some will resent us for what we have, and some will hate us for what we believe. But there is much in the world that we cannot achieve on our own. So we must lead toward clearly articulated and shared goals and with the cooperation and respect of friends and allies."

http://www.counterpunch.org/donahue10302003.html

[madfloridian]

64. See, the lies told yesterday and today are glossed over by attacks...

on me for saying they are wrong.

Don't ever quote Counterpunch to me. I do not respect them because I and many others believe their goal is to destroy the Democratic Party before we have a chance to rebuild it outside of the DLC.

Read my post. I was against this evil war, so was Howard Dean. You can twist it turn it wring it out all over the place, but to say otherwise is a lie.

For the heads of two progressive sites to attack him viciously for two days while letting the ones who voted for it off the hook, and while attacking those of us who present the truth....it is unconscionable

[chlamor]

65. It's simple

Howard Dean just says "The US tropps must leave Iraq. We must then have an international body come in to examine the effects of the war and interview Iraqi citizens about what they experienced, particularly in Falluja. At that point we must examine the evidence to see if there were war crimes and and indict the responsible parties if indeed there were." (And you know the whole endeavor is a war crime, if not re-read The Nuremberg Charter).

Of course this is not 'politically expedient' and we know about political expedience.

As for counterpunch who cares about a website per se it is only one miniscule item and I (or you) could pull from numerous sites to get the same factual data but let's not waste our time. Dean-Clinton-Kerry are cut from the same cloth and are corporate candidates/politicians who have their own bloated budgets and simply don't live in the real world of 'the common folk' (not to glorify that) and see the world through the lens of 'The American Mission'.

How much more of the stale hollow rhetoric does one need to hear it is like a feedback loop and still people don't learn.

[madfloridian]

66. Not talking about his being right or wrong.....

Talking about the right to be in a thread and defend when it is said he is an imperialist.

Why not accuse the ones I posted today several times, the senators and reps who voted yes. I posted it all over.

It is wrong for progressive groups to make Howard Dean the scapegoat on this.

[chlamor]

70. I am not scapegoating

Dean to the exclusion of others. I will "scapegoat" in an even handed manner (which is a loaded term so as to obfuscate the issue) all who vote for, support the, or even mildly think it is okay for the Iraqi children and the American children (whose futures are stolen by military funding) to be annihilated by the US military which is what continued funding of the Iraq massacre amounts to. This Mesopotamian invasion is just a continuation of Lord Curzon-Bush Sr.-Clinton-Bush Jr. etc. colonization. We need hard core truth telling. All who use weasel words need to step back and reflect on the hideous nature of this project and get involved in movements that call for unconditional withdrawal and reparations.

What will you be doing on May 2nd?
Let's get out in the streets and make strong statements.

[madfloridian]

72. I have been fighting since 2002. Very hard.

Just go after the congress who voted for it, not one of two men who thought it was wrong.

[chlamor]

76. I go after

everyone past and present who lends support to the Massacre on the Tigris be it rhetorically or materially, be it my neighbor or Congress. We cannot equivocate.

Keep up the fight.

[understandinglife]

84. Yes. It is time we unite in our unwillingness to allow anyone to escape...

....responsibility for any excuse to continue the American military and commercial occupation of Iraq. It began as an illegal act. It remains an illegal act. And, in the process of 13 March 2003 until today, countless individuals have been killed, tortured, and forever harmed by our illegal actions.

No excuses.

We can plan a logistically sound exit, NOW.

We can be humble before the UN and ask for assistance in that exit, NOW.

And, we must begin that process, NOW.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN.............)

[madfloridian]

87. Are you calling the ones who voted for it?

Are you making signs to hold up to remind them of what they did?

[understandinglife]

90. I have been calling, faxing and emailing those folk from the very...

...beginning of this illegal activity.

And, I wrote [email protected] numerous emails before 13 March 2003 expressing my opposition.

So, yes.


Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us (The.Day.WE.BEGIN...........)

[clem_c_rock]

55. 110% agreement

At this point, any candidate who is supporting any aspect of this war based on complete 100% lies needs to be kicked to the curb.

[Terran1212]

73. I agree with the topic creator

Bravo

[Just Me]

95. .

:kick:

[chlamor]

97. kick

[nolabels]

101. Every excuse to why the US has not left yet is also B.S.

The whole effing deal is a need for a beach-head in the Middle east and nothing more. OPEC raising prices is nothing for the oil companies, they just raise theirs. It only bothers corporate players in that makes the smaller-weaker-marginal businesses go belly up while the rest pick the bones.

This war for oil is a sublet issue. It's all about war for CONTROL and how to get it. All of the details they think they can handle and address later. They have always worked that way and mostly said it as well.

[chlamor]

104. Amen

[chlamor]

105. 165 billion dollars later-boom

[chlamor]

106. '40'

[merh]

107. kick

:kick:

[rocktop15]

108. amen.

ssia.