Should a murderer be able to *choose* the death penalty...

[_TJ_]

...if he/she prefers it to life in prison? I am definitely
against the death penalty - but for some people life in jail
might be a worse punishment.

If it were available and you were guilty of murder would you
want life or death?

Edit: hard to say for sure what I'd do in those circumstances.
I'm guessing I'd choose death. 30-40 years rotting in a cell
doesn't sound like a life worth living to me. Even as an
atheist I think I'd take the small chance of an afterlife over
40 years of a sh1t life surrounded by the scum of the earth. :)

[flamin lib]

1. Easy enough, just walk up to the biggest meanest MF in the

block and call him a name.

Or perhaps tell them that you and Jeff Dahlmer were room mates.

Jeffy didn't last long did he?

[More Than A Feeling]

2. No, they have forfeited that choice through their prior actions.

Society, in the person of the jury/judge, makes that decision.

on edit: To be clear, I am against the death penalty.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Stories abound about "suicide by execution"...

and there's no doubt some would prefer it to life in a supermax.

The thing is, though, that I am against killing in any and all circumstances, including execution at the convict's request. While I might be sympathetic to suicide under other circumstances, this would not be a voluntary suicide-- it would be the desperate choice of someone escaping a worse fate.

My attitude is that there might be very few criminals doing life who will genuinely reform, but every one of them should be given the chance, and have the hope that they could one day get out, or at least get into a more hospitable dungeon.

[Save The World]

18. When isn't suicide

"the desperate choice of someone escaping a worse fate?"

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Point taken, but...

we hear about terminal patients' and depressives contemplating suicide, but we don't hear much about those who simply have decided that life isn't what it's cracked up to be. They could stay alive, and that wouldn't be so bad, but they prefer to just get it over with.

There are also martyrs, who have decided their lives are less valuable than their causes.

In most of these cases, though, there are more than two options, as the choice between a natural lifespan in a supermax and the needle would be. Not only are there usually more options, but the options are not usually dictated by a court.

[The Stranger]

4. Pleading to the death penalty seems problematic.

I would think that there still must be a trial, to satisfy due process. Otherwise, an innocent could decide that he/she wants to die, and the state would be complicit by accepting the plea and meting out the sentence.

[sonicx]

5. There was a Law and Order episode on today about that...

Did you watch? :)

[_TJ_]

6. no - we get L&O over here but I don't watch it

[nonconformist]

7. No, I don't.

For one, it's the equivalent of condoned suicide. I believe in euthanasia, but that's not what is going on here. I would never support someone's right to kill themselves simply because they don't want to go on living. I certainly can't stop someone from doing it, but if I could I definitely would. Allowing an optional death penalty would be state condoned suicide.

And two, it would allow people to escape their punishment. One of the reasons I'm against the death penalty - but certainly not the main reason - is life in prison forces you to live with what you did and the consequences thereof, making you reflect on your crime for the rest of your natural life.

And three - and this might not be much of an issue but it's one that popped into my head - I'd guess that mentally ill or innocent prisoners who have given up hope might be more likely to chose death over life in prison than unrepentant guilty prisoners.

[patricia92243]

8. Timothy McVeigh sp) chose to die.

[Blue Moon]

10. Correct, but

If we didn't have a death penalty, then that option would be denied to him

[amazona]

9. if someone wants to self-aggrandize himself

I'm not sure we should cater to the publicity seeking ego-centered crazies a la Gary Gilmore of the world.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[wuushew]

11. Yes, I support most forms of suicide and euthanasia

I believe suicide even among the healthy can be arrived at and carried out by the rational mind. The fact that the person is a criminal is immaterial.

[_TJ_]

13. I like you wuushew

I share your opinions on this big time :D

[wuushew]

17. I would also like to comment on what some here say

is the role of the justice system.

Prison serves to either rehabilitate a criminal so that if released they are less likely to commit crimes, or in the case of serious crimes protect the public from violence by incarceration for life.

All this talk about people getting what they deserve is contrary to the above stated goals and the concept of impartial justice. Justice that is not blind is vengeance. Those who are victims in crimes should not be jurors nor should they be able to set punishment. Like government justice is a system that benefits greatly from impartiality and lack of hypocrisy.

We make sure that human rights are met by providing clean sanitation, reading material and law. For an inmate the request for suicide should be honored as if it were made in the outside world. No compromise to public safety is made and by granting it and we are ensuring the maximum amount of freedom for those in society unable to do otherwise. This is a position entirely consistent with the best tenets of liberalism.

[_TJ_]

19. Well said sir

You really know your stuff wuushew!

I don't believe in sending people to jail to 'punish' them.

I believe in institutions that can help criminals to become
good, law-abiding citizens. Where a criminal is violent and
dangerous, however, jail should function to protect society at
large.

A forced death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment IMO. But
if a prisoner prefers to die than serve 30 years jailtime I say
let him have his desire.

[nonconformist]

28. I think that's being simplistic

The primary goals of incarceration are to protect society from criminals and rehabilitation for those that will be coming back into society.

But you're kidding yourself if you don't think that punishment for crimes isn't part of that and INTENDED to be part of that. One could even argue that it's a central part of rehabilitation - accepting what you did was wrong and repenting is crucial to rehabilitation and impossible unless one is forced to deal the consequences of their actions.

Let me ask you this - I think Ken Lay should be behind bars. He's not a violent criminal and I don't think that anyone has to be worried about Ken Lay breaking into their house and murdering them. Rehabilitation is virtually pointless for financial crimes. So what would be the point of incarcerating corporate criminals? Punishment for their crimes, pure and simple.

By your reasoning, once someone is an adult they should never be punished if they do something wrong again and that is simply absurd.

[nonconformist]

26. I don't agree with that at all.

A healthy person committing suicide is anything but rational by definition alone. You may understand why they chose what they did or have a true understanding and empathy for the power of mental illness, but that doesn't mean they were acting rationally. It's possible to accept and condone someone's personal choice to kill themselves without saying they made a rational decision. Understandable doesn't mean rational. Rational suggests they're completely of sound mind and able to realistically weigh all options. The closest one could come is in the case of someone who is so troubled they've become a prisoner of their own mind and have exhausted all avenues for treatment. So it may be understandable, but someone who is that troubled can hardly be capable of being rational whilst being consumed with unimaginable pain.

I can't wrap my brain around any situation short of terminal illness where one could come to that conclusion in a rational frame of mind.

You know, I used to think that if someone choses to end their own life for whatever reason who am I to say that they shouldn't. After all, it's their life - I don't have to live it or live with whatever is going on in their head. But accepting that is to discount their mental health needs, on par with accepting eating disorders, self-mutilation and the like. We may not be able to stop someone from destroying themselves, but we can certainly try to help them as much as possible. Condoning suicide validates it to the most vulnerable people of all as a valid choice and it's irresponsible.

[wuushew]

27. We are all mortal beings, we can't cheat death

therefore I submit that in a way, choosing the location and circumstances of one's one death is the ultimate form of self expression. Are we to second guess everyone who desires suicide as mentally ill?

[nonconformist]

29. I think it's a safe assumption

You don't have to be a raving lunatic frothing at the mouth to be mentally ill. It takes on many forms and many degrees of severity and it's entirely possible to outwardly function normally while being mentally ill. I think that an otherwise healthy person determining that death is their only option clearly has some mental issues of some form. Romanticizing suicide into art goes against everything a sane human is coded with biologically - the will to survive is the most powerful and empowering thing we possess as a human race.

[maveric]

12. The victim's families should choose the sentences.

Leave to the ones who will suffer eternally.

[_TJ_]

14. naw - a forced death penalty is a bad thing

too many innocent people are on death row already.

[maveric]

15. Then that option should only be for the slam-dunk variety.

The ones where there is no question whatsoever.

[_TJ_]

16. I still wouldn't be for it

Who decides what's airtight and what's not? The judge? The jury?
the victim's family? George Bush? :D

There have been cases where the convictions were considered 100%
airtight that were eventually overturned.

Personally, I'd rather put a thousand guilty murderers in
jail than execute one innocent man. Don't forget - that
innocent man could be you or someone you care about!

[TreasonousBastard]

25. There aren't that many of those, but...

even if there were, that means that some of the most heinous felons would get lighter sentences simply because the evidence was looser.

That already happens because the system isn't all that good, but to formalize it would be against all agreed principles of justice.

[Just Me]

20. No. I would give that choice to the innocent dying or living dead.

First of all, I am against the death penalty as punishment for a crime for five reasons: 1) we should not take on the power to impose death upon another; 2) we may be imposing death upon an innocent person; 3) we do not know whether death would be a greater punishment than the perpetuation of life in prison; 4) the death penalty has FAILED to demonstrably decrease violent crime in our country; 5) we surely do not want to encourage the only remaining reason for demanding the death penalty,..."revenge".

[_TJ_]

22. What if...

...it were proven by psychologists that *some* prisoners
would suffer more under life-imprisonment than by dying?

If the death penalty is cruel and unacceptable, would not a fate
worse than death be even less acceptable?

If I were facing 30 years in jail I think that would
be a crueler punishment for me than a lethal injection.

[pscot]

21. Definitely not

You kill, your ass belong to the state.

[_TJ_]

23. Many people would disagree

They would say that just because you have killed, that doesn't
mean the state has the right to kill you.