What Would Jesus Think about Benedict XVI?

[sugapablo]

I wonder what goes on in the minds of the modern religious establishments.

After all, Jesus was, in his day, a very liberal, progressive thinker, obviously opposed to the "religious right" of his day, the Pharisees.

And yet, here in the US, we have the "religious right" acting in so many ways, against the teachings of their proclaimed "lord and saviour" (for example, Jesus, in Matthew, basically calls public prayer a sin), and the Cardinals of Rome electing the most conservative, "establishment" candidate they could find in Joseph Ratzinger.

So I wonder, what would Jesus think? Somehow I think he'd be quite upset.



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[CarefullyLiberal]

1. I agree with you.

What has surprised me during the events of the past two weeks is the number of American right-wing conservative religious leaders that have weighted in with their opinion.

Imagine if the Vatican came out with a public opinion on The 700 Club!

-Fergus

[sugapablo]

2. Well..

Them people can't keep their noses out of other people's beliefs.

[Bellamia]

21. To whatever the Vatican comes out with

Jesus would respond"What is that to thee,? Follow me."
IT's in the Bible, can't give the exact verse. Has to do with the story of a man who could not follow Jesus because he had to go to a funeral. Interesting, huh?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

3. The Pharisees were the "liberals" and the Sadduccees were "conservatives"

But both were conservative in comparison to Jesus.

[formerrepuke]

4. Jesus wasn't Catholic- he was Southern Baptist....just ask Dobson/

Falwell/Robertson, etc...

[fasttense]

6. Wait till they find out Jesus was Jewish. n/t

[MemphisTiger]

5. Jesus did not call public prayer a sin

he said that praying on the street corner for the sake of being seen praying was a sin. There is a big difference. If the spirit moves you, why not drop to your knees and pray?

[fasttense]

8. Oh come on, someone who drops to their knees

in the street to pray is just asking for everyone's attention. Look at me, look at me, I'm so pious and religious I pray right here and now. Give me a break. Jesus knew what he was talking about. Praying on the street is just for show.

[MemphisTiger]

10. You're presuming to know what is in the persons heart

which you DON'T. If you don't want to pray in public, then don't.

[fasttense]

17. Oh come on,

Jesus knew what he was talking about. He saw their souls. He knew it was for show and it hasn't changed since his time. If I see someone praying on the street, I will believe they are just like those Jesus condemns. People today are no better than they were in his time.

[MemphisTiger]

29. So now you are as perfect as Jesus?

[Enraged_Ape]

42. Let's look at the instant replay, shall we, Jack?

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Matthew 6:5-6

Sounds pretty clear to me. Jesus is speaking quite plainly, as he always did, in words even the most ardent fundamentalist would (should) understand.

[sugapablo]

46. This...

This passage of the bible in conveniently omitted in most conservative Christian services.

Remember, we need MORE public prayer. Prayer in government, prayer in schools, prayer at football games, prayer on tv, prayer on radio...

Faith must be enforced!

[xpat]

18. Good question. Ask Monica.

[sugapablo]

28. Uhm...check the book

"he said that praying on the street corner for the sake of being seen praying was a sin. There is a big difference. If the spirit moves you, why not drop to your knees and pray?"

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

He didn't just say not to do it on street corners, but also in synagogues (churches didn't exist yet, but they fall in the same category).

He said do not pray where you "may be seen by men". Do this "in secret".

And if you really believe that Jesus was son of G-d/G-d, wouldn't disobeying him be, in fact, a sin?

[MemphisTiger]

30. He was making a point about the hypocrites

Only God and the person who is praying know the true motive of prayer. We have no idea what is going on in thier heart. So, maybe we shouldn't pre-judge someone because the choose to exercise their right to prayer.

[sugapablo]

31. Who is...?

Who is pre-judging someone's "right to pray" (as if there were such thing).

My comment was towards politicians who are trying to force public prayer upon us. To those who try to pass laws requiring public prayer, allegience to a nation "under G-d", etc.

I mean hell, even in PA (where I'm from), they're trying to pass a state law that would MANDATE the phrase "In G-d We Trust" being posted in every classroom, gymnasium, and auditorium.

http://www.2ra.org/index.php?item=178

[GreenArrow]

34. yes, he was making a point about hypocrites

and pointing out how they could be identifed.

[mapatriot]

7. What Jesus would think

As a catholic, I believe that those cardinals who voted for our new Pope were inspired by divine intervention. Therefore, I have no doubt that Jesus is very pleased. But that's just me. Feel free to think what you want.

[fasttense]

13. As a former Catholic

I believe those cardinals who voted for the new Pope were inspired by politics. Therefore, I have no doubt that Jesus is very unhappy. But that's just me, I've seen the politics of Catholic Church and it is just as political as the US Senate.

[GreenArrow]

35. politics and ambition,

plain and simple.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Can you show me in the bible

or elsewhere that Jesus taught that the pope is infallible?

[Goblinmonger]

15. I'm going to hold back a little

but doesn't the fact the JPII changed the rules so that after a couple weeks only a simple majority was needed instead of 2/3 kind of put a kink in the divine intervention thing. I mean, JPII was then basically saying, "Well, if it goes to long, I guess God is only trying to intervene with 50%+1 of us and not 2/3."

If there is divine intervention, why do we need more than one vote?

[doublethink]

48. We know what Jesus said ....

why do people have to always 'wonder' what Jesus would have done or reacted to the things of our times? That boggles my mind. Isn't any Christian religion including Catholicism based on THE BIBLE? Makes you wonder if these religions of our time actually read the darg garn thing.
"AND CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER UPON THE EARTH: FOR ONE IS YOUR FATHER, WHICH IS IN HEAVEN" ... Matthew 23-9 Peace.


MORE HERE .... :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3507869&mesg_id=3507869

[bpilgrim]

50. sounds like bush voters to me

:scared:

peace

[Borgnine]

9. What would Jesus think about Christianity as a whole?

I'm not sure how he would feel about having a whole religion built up around him.

[Tux]

11. I doubt

He wanted a religion built around him as a God.

On the topic of Popes, are they considered gods? Jesus was a guy yet worshiped as a god or is it only him?

[mapatriot]

12. Popes as gods?

No. No one considers a Pope to be a "god". Thanks for asking, though.

[Goblinmonger]

16. But he is infallible

when he is speaking as "the Pope" because he is God's megaphone. That's pretty darn close.

[mapatriot]

20. Faith and Morals

Only when he opines on matters of faith and morals. We as catholics have no latitude when it comes to papal encyclicals. If we ignore them and chose to do otherwise, we are no longer catholics. How many papal encyclicals do you think John Paul II issued in his 25 years as Pope?

[Goblinmonger]

24. ONLY?

That's a pretty wide berth, isn't it? .

I believe the formal number is "too many." Being that there has only been about 290 encyclicals to day, I would guess that JPII is reponsible for about a baker's dozen or so.

Are you happy that a person was picked that on the issue of "morals" has said that homosexuals are an abomination?

[mapatriot]

41. Morals

What he said is that homosexuality is an abomination, not homosexuals. I don't know if abomination isn't a bit of an overstatement, but the "practice" is totally alien to the teachings of the church and I agree with him. Again, that's not a condemnation of someone because they are a homosexual, but rather the PRACTICE of homosexuality.

[Goblinmonger]

54. What a chickenshit distinction

How many young homosexuals were beaten in the past week by people that believe that "homosexuality" is against god. It is well and fine for you to make that distinction in writing, but it just doesn't work in practice.

And saying someone is going to hell because they "practice" (I would think they would have it right by now) something pretty much fits the definition of abomination.

[fasttense]

22. Yeah the Popes are all God's megaphones

You know when the Popes condoned the inquisition, burning witches and the Holocaust. Sounds like God speaking to me.

[Goblinmonger]

26. OK

my post was sarcasm. I thought the use of the term "megaphone" would cue people into that. Guess you have to adjust the sensitivity on your sarcasm meter a little.

[doublethink]

49. Doesn't Bush claim the same thing?

hmmmmm ..... geesh

[Zynx]

32. Pope has only spoken with infallibility TWICE, total

Both regarding Mary - the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

Anything else that comes out of the Pope's mouth is not infallible - but he is still the head of the Church so it certainly carries weight.

[Goblinmonger]

37. What?

Any encyclical that comes from the pope is him speaking from god and hence infallibility.

[Zynx]

47. If that were the case, why does it have to be invoked?

It is a power given to be used only in certain select cases.

[Left Is Write]

19. About Jesus being worshipped as a god -

One of the core beliefs of many denominations of Christianity is the Trinity - God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit. In other words, Jesus WAS God in human form.

The same cannot be said of Popes. I'm not Catholic, though, so any information on Catholic beliefs should probably come from an actual Catholic.

[aneerkoinos]

33. Son of the Man

There is no historical proof that Jesus no more than Socrates wanted to create a religion to worship him. He tought love and mystical union with God to a select group of disciples, and gave spiritual prep talks also to larger crowds, so it seems.

It was Paul that created a new religion, Paul that never knew Jesus or his teaching.

[GreenArrow]

36. nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say to worship him

.

[bpilgrim]

52. he always says that we come to god through him...

from what i took away from my Catholic upbringing, anyways... i don't think that means to worship him but since he is, via the trinity, 'god', it might be interpreted that way as well, i suppose :shrug:

one thing i do know is that my favorite liberal radical, JESUS, must surely be tempted to come back down and pay us a visit... with our fuhrer and now this ultra conservative Catholic pope. :scared:

peace

[xpat]

23. The oligarchy is coming out of the closet.

Wolfowitz, Bolton, and now an unrepentant former Nazi Youth. That gives us a bunch of good targets and should open a lot of eyes.

Don't get me wrong, had Ratzinger repudiated his Nazi origins, rather than remaining a totalitarian into his old age, his membership in the Nazi Youth would be no more significant today than Robert Byrd's membership in the KKK.

[saltpoint]

25. Many scholars believe Jesus would have been appalled --

-- by the papacy, by The Vatican, by the institutionalization of private spiritual experience.

[Selteri]

27. The Biblical Jesus would have made him an apostle.

Since he has a past where he made mistakes and has moved to improve it though he's still HIGHLY conservative for the church.

[Javaman]

38. Why the hat?

I think that would be the first thing that would come to his mind

[tabasco]

51. LMAO.

Why the tons of gold looted from South America?

Might be in the top ten.

[thecai]

39. Jesus Said "Call No Man Father"...

...for there is but one Father, your Father in Heaven", Matt. 23:9
Jesus also said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creatures. He that is baptized shall be saved, but he that is not baptized shall be condemned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In My name they shall cast out demons, they shall speak with new tongues, they will take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not harm them, they will lay hands on the sick, and they will be healed." Mark 16:15-18. (From what I've learned, Catholics believe only priests can cast out demons...) Many religions baptize followers INTO their religion, rather than "In the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit".
There are many things in different religions that contradict The Bible, (I could go on and on...) so personally, I use The Bible as a guideline.

Since you asked.

on edit: King James Version

[mmonk]

40. So is that where dad comes from?

[Disturbed]

43. Does anyone believe that..

the Jesus described in the bible would be comfortable hanging out in the Vatican amdist the spleandor, wearing those silly hats and fancy garbs and having people kiss his ring?

[sugapablo]

45. Of course not.

You hit the nail right on the head.

Nor would Jesus feel comfotable:
- as a guest on the 700 Club
- in a stadium with Billy Graham
- snake handling
- giving the prayer to open a US Congress session
- etc.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Seeing as Jesus wasn't a Christian, and was trying to reform Judaism

he'd probably see Paul as a schismatic who took the worst of Judaism and set up business with Benny XVI as the new CEO.

[bpilgrim]

53. that is another often left out fact

you said it :toast:

peace