Faux "The Pope supported the theory of Just war"

[brettdale]

Is that true??

[BlackVelvetElvis]

1. If I remember right-yes.

I believe he supported the airstrikes in Bosnia.

[Virginian]

2. I hear he supported the action in Bosnia.

I also hear he didn't support Iraq.
He also didn't support the death penalty.

[Jack Rabbit]

5. But on Fox they won't tell you that

[K-W]

3. Yes, that is still Catholic dogma.

Do remember that Just war is a fairly strict ruberic.

[rpannier]

4. Yes He did

But the Pope said Iraq was NOT a just war. He supported the actions in Bosnia and Kosovo to stop ethnic cleansing.

[Padraig18]

6. Yes, it's true.

He did not see the Iraq War as a 'just war', although he did approve of the Bosnian campaign.

[Erika]

7. John Paul II was totally against the Iraqi war & capital

punishment. Is that what you were asking?

Pre-emptive strikes violates the concept of Christ's Golden Rule.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. That is true. But Pox News is its usual disingenuous self again...

Catholicism recognizes the idea of a "just war," which basically means that war can be justified if it is absolutely necessary to prevent even greater evil --in other words, purely defensive war. But what the pukes at Pox neglected to mention was the *very important* fact that the Pope was resolutely against the Iraq invasion because he didn't think it met the very stringent requirements for a just war.

[sonicx]

9. yes, and Iraq was not just

[bvar22]

10. He was absolutely AGAINST the...

...bush invasion of Iraq. He told bush*:
"If you go to Iraq, you go without God!"

This particular quote was not given much exposure in the US CorpoMedia, or repeated in many Christian or Catholic Churches in the US.

[Erika]

11. So good to know

Many act as if this is a moral war. It is not.

[Poiuyt]

16. Wow! Did the Pope really say that to Bush?

[bvar22]

19. Yes!

"Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq.

But the President is expected to tell the Pope's envoy that the leader of the world's Catholics is wrong.

Bush rejects the Vatican's argument that pre-emptive war with Iraq has no moral justification, but officials promise that he will listen carefully when he meets the Pop's envoy."



link

What percentage of Americans know how strongly the Pope opposed bush*s War on the Iraqi People?
Most US Catholics DON"T KNOW that their Pope STRONGLY opposed the Invasion of Iraq.

Pass it On!!!

[0007]

34. The Pope did indeed say that to junior. The media down played

it and the whore networks didn't expand on it.

[hippiepunk]

12. Just war doctrine

1. "All other means to avoid war must be exhausted."
2. "The damage done by the aggressor must be grave and certain."
3. "There must be serious prospects of success."
4. "The use of arms must not produce evils that are greater than the evil to be eliminated."

[Guaranteed]

13. Well, since he was against the Iraq War, we can logically conclude

that he thought it was an unjust war.

Thanks, Fox News!

[w4rma]

14. Yes. And he *strongly* opposed the Iraq war, which was not a "just" war.

Read Carter's Nobel Lecture, delivered in Oslo on Dec. 10, 2002.
Carter warns against 'catastrophic' war (December 10, 2002)
A Statement By President Carter: An Alternative To War (January 31, 2003)
Carter: Iraq threat does not justify war (January 31, 2003)
Carter Says Bush Has 'Not Made a Case' for War (February 1, 2003)
Carter Urges More Diplomacy on Iraq - Ex-President Blames Neglect of Mideast for Anti-American Mood (Feburary 25, 2003)
Just War — or a Just War? (March 9, 2003)

[d_b]

15. Exactly what I was about to write.

[Gman]

17. It's not a theory, it's a doctirne

and yes, the JPII supported it.

[Trajan]

18. I support the theory of 'Just War' .....

If a nation is attacked by another and is under threat of annihilation, should it NOT react militarily ? ....

I cannot imagine a people living in peace on THIS earth if it refused to protect itself against sustained attack by a militant nation .... Such as nation has a right and an obligation to protect it citizens IF the circumstances are valid and honest ...

[bvar22]

22. The Buddhists in Tibet believe differently.

They believe that violence is not an option under ANY circumstance.
They practice what they preach, and did not use violence to oppose the occupation of their nation (Tibet) when the Chinese invaded in 1949. Tibet is still occupied, though the Deli Lama left Tibet and now resides in exile. IIRC, the Deli Lama has forbidden violence against the Chinese occupiers.

Ghandi also offers a successful example of non-violent resistance to an occupier.

BTW: A literal interpretation of the words of Jesus in the Christian Bible forbids violence against an enemy invader.


NOTE: While I greatly admire the commitment to principle of the Buddhists and Ghandi, I (like the Iraqis) would try to kill the invaders any way I could.

[w4rma]

23. And their country is now occupied by China and their religion is repressed

by the Chinese government.

Note, I agree with you. I'd fight back also.

[bvar22]

24. I can only shake my head in wonder.

I saw the Deli Lama when he came to St Paul a couple of years ago. He told a story about one of his fellow monks who stayed in Tibet and was imprisoned by the Chinese for 25 years.
He was released and came to see the Deli Lama who asked his friend if he was ever afraid.
The Deli Lama's friend replied that he was afraid every day.
He was afraid he would lose his compassion for the Chinese!

Like I said, I can only shake my head in wonder, admiration, and a little envy!

[Donkeyboy75]

30. You are lucky!

I heard he makes a great ham and swiss. ;)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

32. I didn't know llama meat was tasty. Maybe a LLama Rueben would be nice.

[Donkeyboy75]

35. I prefer alpaca, but to each

his own.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

26. Nope - I disagree

War kills people...there is never a winner...the loss of life transcends who gets to raise their flag over who...

[deadparrot]

20. Yes.

He was not a pacifist, but he was very much against the Iraq invasion.

[Zynx]

21. Yes - this is extremely well developed Catholic doctrine

However, Iraq most certainly did not meet this criteria.

[bvar22]

25. Yes, it is a highly developed doctrine ....

...in the Catholic Church that contradicts the actual words of Jesus who commands His followers to Love Your Enemies. Nowhere in the Christian Bible does Christ advocate violence for ANY reason. The Catholic Church really had to torture their rationalization to come up with the Just War doctrine.

[Zynx]

27. It's developed from the era of rampaging barbarians

That's the backdrop Augustine was working under - and that's why it justifies defensive war.

[bvar22]

31. I missed the Gospel..

...where Christ said to love your enemy except when he is a rampaging barbarian, then its OK to kill him.

[rman]

28. maybe. doesn't mean he thought Bush's war is just

-

[LynnTheDem]

29. Faux Moos needs to do some scrubbing

FOXNews.com - US & World - Vatican Strongly Opposes Iraq War

Pope John Paul II and top Vatican officials are unleashing a barrage of condemnations of a possible U.S. military strike on Iraq, calling it immoral, risky and a "crime against peace."

The unwavering stance has made the pope one of the most visible opponents of war in current circumstances, and a rallying point for peace groups and politicians who seize on his words counseling against war.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80875,00.html

[0007]

33. John Paul II was against the Iraqi war & let junior know in uncertain

terms that he was not happy with the invasion of Iraq.

The Pople was no big fan of junior and his administration.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. yes

[GiovanniC]

37. Yes, But John Paul II Didn't Define Just War As "Whatever Bush Says It Is"

That's Fox's definition though.

[Plaid Adder]

38. The "just war theory" is part of Catholic doctrine.

So he would have to support it. BUT, the Pope was always adamant that the Iraq invasion did NOT fit the Church definition of "just war," whatever that asshole wingnut they had on NPR that time I just about went after the radio with a baseball bat said.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder