When the "Religious" Warp Sexuality, It is a Sin

[Tsiyu]

I stayed out of the flame wars over Christianity and the Pope. But I have this to say about any denomination or religious "leader" telling humans how to be sexual:

YOU ARE WICKED AND EVIL!

The human need for sex is no more "shameful" than the human need for food or shelter or water. We were made to desire and enjoy sex. Not just for procreation, but all throughout our adult lives.

No church or priest or pontiff has the right to tell another human how or when or where to be sexual, as long as that person is an adult engaging in consensual, private activity.

It is not the church's place to order women into lives of physical and financial torment by denying them "moral" rationale for birth control. It is not the church's place to tell a loving couple that their expressions of love are "bad" if they aren't making a baby. It is not the church's place to stand at the foot of your bed reminding you that "No, THAT position is BAD. Yes, THAT position is GOOD!" It is not the church's place to say that a priest must be denied that portion of his humanity.

In fact, denying humans their basic needs, manipulating and shaming them about perfectly normal sexual feelings, is what leads grown men to molest and rape young children. Why children? Because they are easy victims, can be shamed easily, are easy to physically overpower. Why the need to create victims? Because NORMAL, HEALTHY sexuality is repressed, degraded and stigmatized. Like the alcoholic who drinks alone, the priest without a normal adult relationship would find it "safe" to find an easy victim on whom to take out all that rage and frustration and guilt. As long as no one knows, no sin was committed. The silence and the secrets begin.

"Publicly, I am clean. Privately, I am filthy. The church likes it that way."

If there is a God, ( and I highly doubt it but the church says there is one so I appeal to the church's desire to please the divine) wouldn't he or she be pretty pissed that a gift he gave adult humans is treated like a disease or an evil curse? That one human wanted to regulate it so badly in another human, they would threaten, demean, dehumanize and emotionally impoverish others just to have that measure of control over someone else's PRIVATE life?

Why can't everyone be like me? If you are an adult involved in a consensual relationship, you are, in my mind, not my concern. I have my own life and my own sins to worry about. I have no concern over what you do in the privacy of your own space.

Why do churches and religious leaders spew their vile manipulations and get away with them?

And why do the "faithful" agree to be manipulated in this manner? Is it sickness? Ignorance?

What? :shrug:

[shockra]

1. Very true.

Sexuality is powerful. That's why they use it for their own ends.

Women's sexuality is especially denied, if you read Mary Daly's Beyond God the Father, or Elizabeth Cady Stanton's The Woman's Bible (which tends to be humorous) you find the church's positions are nothing but contradictions. And women are cursed, no matter *what* they do. The only good woman that ever existed was both a virgin, and a mother. No living woman can live up to that example.

The fear of women's sexual power leads to some weird stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Rapture" mania is the logical conclusion of denying the female orgasm/sexuality exists. Psychologically, when you deny something, it comes to subconsciously control your thinking. And Rapture maniacs who believe they are going to be orgasmed up to heaven think they are discovering something new when it's something that's been right under their noses all along, they've just been denying its existence.

It's just too much to contemplate that women take pleasure in sex, have orgasms, and even have an organ specifically *for* the purpose of sexual pleasure -- the clitoris. So difficult to accept that millions of girls have their clitoris cut off, each year. In many countries in the world, unfortunately even this one.

Yeah, they're jealous all right. The clitoris has twice as many nerve endings as the penis, and boy have they been missing out! The Rapture maniacs think once they've abused Mother Earth into submission, she's gonna reward them with a great big collective orgasm. Since women really get off on being abused, you know. I think they're going to find out that big cosmic re-set button in the sky isn't going to work according to their plan. Once they've trashed the earth it's trashed. It's not going to be created anew for them or anyone else.

[Tsiyu]

5. Thanks Good reply

;)

[SarahB]

11. Great post.

It's odd that there's this continual thought process among so many people that's almost dichotomous in terms of the sexuality of women. I have known many otherwise healthy intelligent people of both genders still maintaining this almost medieval Madonna/whore complex as if a woman cannot be be a loving, nurturing, intelligent person and at the same time enjoy her sexuality. Even at a relatively young age, I noticed the "she asked for it" stuff in terms of sexual harassment or rape and was appalled, never bought into that, and made my decisions on my terms. Still, in our society, it seems as though a woman cannot own her sexuality on her own terms without some sort of battle or judgment, but has to fit into the narrow definitions of other people. Obviously even worse, when you look at certain areas of the world where a women's sexuality is literally cut from her and she becomes mere property like land or cattle. It makes me sick.

[Tsiyu]

14. Strange, isn't it?

Why would any religion force women to have baby after baby after baby and then plead with the rest of us to feed them?

Why do some men act as if sex is exclusively their domain, as if women were not programmed to want sex, too. As if they have to cajole or force us into sexual activity, because we would never want it on our own......BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Of course, any woman who does enjoy sex has a legion of names she can expect to be called.

Why does the bible have Song of Songs in it?

[beam me up scottie]

19. I noticed that too.

Women have to be "tricked" into having sex. Yay, score one for the guy?
:wtf:
Have you ever had any of your friends come into the locker room and say "Hey Bitches! Guess what I got me a piece of last night? Woo hoo! Damn straight, by the time he noticed what I was doing, I already had his bvds off. Dumb men, all you gotta do is buy them dinner and a little wine, sweet talk them, and it's wham bam thank you sam."

Not all men, obviously, think about it that exact way but there does exist the whole "score" mentality; like we are too stupid to know what they are doing and the only way we'll "give in" is if we're dumb or drunk, or preferably, both.

Little off topic, sorry. Feel better. Rant over.:evilgrin:

[Tsiyu]

20. I honestly believe that American men especially

have such a guilt complex over their own sexuality ( fueled by the churches) that they tend to want to believe women don't have that guilt, that the only thing keeping us from being "sexual" is our supposed "superior" morality. In other words, women don't get aroused or fool around unless something is "wrong" or "bad" with them.

We females are the "keepers of chastity" to some of them, and it shatters their world to realize we like sex as much as they do. Of course, when some men begin to realize women enjoy sex, too, they tend to think every woman could or would want them, and they often become obnoxious in the other extreme.

But regardless, the churches need to stay out of the bedroom.

[beam me up scottie]

21. Amen sister (sorry)

I was married to a fundie's son, seven years of good girl/bad girl
de-programming not to mention the whole passive-aggressive thing.
I gave up, too much work just to be able to enjoy myself.
Yeesh, if there was a heaven, and it was filled with guys like him with mothers like her, I would rather be downstairs enjoying the heat with the other tramps.
:evilgrin:

[SarahB]

22. You too?

I'm getting out of a 13+ year marriage to someone with a strict Irish Catholic upbringing who I have been with nearly 15 years (since I was 18). We had our ups and downs, but it was always this continual, underlying source of tension and difference between us. When other problems starting happening, this stuff just became even harder to tolerate. I'll be damned if I ever repress who I am or what I want for another man ever again.

[beam me up scottie]

23. No! Repeat after me:

You will NOT enjoy sex
You will always have a headache
You will remember your place in the household
You will never argue with the man of the house
You will take care of him like you are his mama
You will not complain about any of this

But you can give him a slap upside the head as you are leaving the house after taking a blow torch to your marriage license.

You have reached cruising altitude and are now free to move about your life.

Enjoy life! It is so sad that some need to find reasons to be miserable.

PS I found out they get more anal as they get older.:wtf:

[Tsiyu]

25. I predict that you will drop 10 years

off your face when he's out of your life for good.

Calling all non-sexist, non-warped men! What thinketh you guys?




(silence)




Oh, well. They must be behind here....:hide:

[Snap]

2. Yes a sin

If you're going for that kind of distinction.
It's probably not very useful to rely on religion for much in the way of personal sexual or spiritual guidance.

[Tsiyu]

6. But why do so many?

Why did I hear a group of very YOUNG Cathlic adults applaud the church for denying adults the right to use birth control?

[Snap]

9. Sometimes

I just have to conclude that kids are dumb. (Not always, and depending on programing this may vary)

[Tsiyu]

18. Dumb, or brainwashed?

Why does a twenty-something kid give a damn if another woman takes The Pill?

[Snap]

24. Good Question

A little of both? We can probably agree that the dumber ones brainwash easier and deeper.

[_TJ_]

3. These bastards that want to poke their noses...

into people's sex lives SERIOUSLY need to fuck off. It's none
of your business assholes!!

What a person does in the bedroom has NO bearing on their morality
or their relationship with God.

[Tsiyu]

7. Amen Brothers and Sisters!

And halleluiah... why do grownups accept being told what do do with their personal lives in the name of their "God?" If there is a God, doesn't he, she or it already KNOW what they're doing? Why do they have to feel justified or condemned by other humans?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. When you don't allow people

to express their sexuality in appropriate ways, you end up with much bigger problems, like pedophile priests.

Even in other religions that allow their ministers to marry, they still try to repress peoples sexuality in numerous other ways. It's not surprising that the highest rate of divorce is among fundie christians.

[Tsiyu]

8. And the fundies are ALWAYS getting caught with their pants

down. :wtf: Falwell admitted he masturbates. Shouldn't the rest of the "I-Must-Control-Others" crowd just back the hell off?

[pilgrimsoul]

10. Ewwwwww.....

that image of Falwell is going to give me nightmares!

[Tsiyu]

15. No doubt!

Sorry.

[ultraist]

12. It's all about control and oppression

The churches use this image of "God" to lord over people. The more they have under their control, the more they oppress, the more power they have, the more MONEY they have.

Most churches suggest that their members tithe anywhere from 10-30% of their income.

Organized religions were set up as forms of government and they still essentially act as such.

[Tsiyu]

13. Bingo!

It's like a form of brainwashing, really.

Remember, when you have a cult or a prison, if you control your imprisoned through sleep deprivation, poor diet and lack of or over-exercise, you can tell them anything and they will begin to believe it. You can take everything they own.

Why don't human adults realize that when other adults try to regulate their sexuality, they are in effect brainwashing them, manipulating them by playing off personal fears and shame?

Why does anybody else care what I do in private? Why should I care what anyone ELSE does in private? I am just amazed at human adults who buy this crap, whether from the Catholics or the Southern Baptists or anyone else. They fill the collection plates every week, hoping their orgasms will be forgiven, praying for absolution from WHAT? BEING NORMAL?

[ultraist]

16. It's amazing isn't it?

That an adult would fear the wrath and fury of a mystical being. :crazy:

OR, that someone feels they have the right to intrude on the privacy of two consenting adults. IMO, when people make judgments on others' sex lives, they are being extremely self righteous and arrogant.

Moreover, why do they even care? I could give a flying fuck what two consenting adults do in private.

I agree. It's a twisted way to control people through shame and fear, which are typical abuser tactics.

[Tsiyu]

17. So why are some folks so obsessed?

Makes you wonder, huh?

[Kelvin Mace]

26. I've had this discussion many times

In order to survive, humans and humanity MUST have the following (in order of immediate need)

1) Oxygen
2) Shelter
3) Water
4) Food
5) Sex

The absence of any one of these needs is DEATH, either for the individual or (long term) the species.

ANY attempt to deprive humans of any of these is harmful. Cultural tampering with any of these cause warping of the human psyche. Control of these needs are how some humans dominate other humans.

Oxygen is pretty hard to mess with and immdiately fatal, so it is left alone. The other four though, are fair game. The pleasure of food and water and how culture manipulates this pleasure, leads to mental disorders (obesity and bulemia/anorexia).

The cultural pecking order dictates your shelter and the type of shelter you have and where that shelter is located has a profound effect on your status and success in life.

Sex, the most complicated human need of all, is the one most ripe for manipulation.

You cannot supress any of the first four needs without fatal results in a short period of time. Supressing sex is just as dangerous as it makes you act in ways not optimal for human survival (rape, murder, molestation, promiscuous sexual intercourse or abstinence from sexual intercourse).

And before anyone points it out, I consider sexual intercourse a sexual expression between two people of any sex. I reject the conservative view (one of the few times they will accept evolution) that homosexuality is self-destructive since it does not involve procreation. First, lesbians still can get pregnant and raise children through a variety of means. Second, gay men can still raise children and fill a caretaker role in society, so they are not "useless" evolutionarily speaking.

(Some day I will address expound on my theory that the normal state of humanity, exclusive of social/religous pressure, is bisexuality).

All forms of anti-social behavior, especially violence can be traced back to either ham-handed manipulation of normal sexual development or organic/traumatic mental defect.

There are exceptions or course, but that is the way to bet.