Canadians - am I the only one SICK of bill 101?

[HEyHEY]

Seriously who are the Quebecois to decide what language a person will speak. Today was a deal breaker for me, I've always been very courteous toward the French language in Canada. But after this shit again... fuck it.

[RBHam]

1. It'll work itself out...

Compromise will rule the day...

[Maple]

2. Are you sure you understand

what it concerns? Because there's nothing to be upset about with it.


Supreme Court eases English-language education rules in Quebec
Last Updated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 16:53:26 EST
CBC News

OTTAWA - The Supreme Court of Canada has opened the door to increased English-language education in Quebec.

In a unanimous judgment, the court stopped short of striking down provincial legislation that restricts access to English schools. But it laid down new legal criteria that will make it easier for immigrants and native-born Canadians to gain access to English schools.

In a separate decision, the court rejected claims from a group of francophones that they should be able to choose English schooling for their children.

The judges said members of the linguistic majority have no constitutional right to education in the minority language.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/31/101050331.html

[HEyHEY]

4. I know exactly what it concerns

I used to be a little sympathetic to it... but no more. If you want your child to learn English, it's your business. It shouldn't matter one gram what percentage French anyone is.

Funny thing is, they wanted to call it "Bill 1" after screwing up the first they called it "Bill 101"

[Maple]

5. Well it just increased

English language education.

And if Quebec wants to preserve it's language, I don't see why you would worry about it. Doesn't affect you in any way.

[HEyHEY]

7. It's a question of rights though

The right to be schooled in any langauge you want. Its silly to think that before today if you had no English blood... you had to learn French... no choice.

I say, get the oppresive crap out. Or make exceptions for English spekaing communities

[Maple]

11. We have no such right

You can't demand to be schooled in Cree or Gaelic or anything you please. We only have two official languages, and living in Quebec, it simply makes sense to run schools in French.

Of course, you can always speak both.

[HEyHEY]

12. Before though - and I think it's still sticky

As I'll have to read the Globe tomorrow, if your parents weren't english you couldn't go to school in English. IN the rest of Canada we have a choice. As well, we spend big money on French immersion to offer that choice in an attempt to encourage that bi-lingualism.

[Maple]

14. Well they are trying to protect

their culture and their language. If everybody in Quebec went to an English school, that would vanish.

It's their choice, and only affects them.

French immersion schools are offered across Canada, because there are many French communities in the country.

[HEyHEY]

17. But there's also a lot of English communites in Quebec

My point is they should not use legislation to encourage their culture as though who don't care for it lose out. I knew guys in Quebec that couldn't get jobs in what they wanted to do because all the jobs in French spekaing environments were full and they didn't speak english well enough to work somewhere else because they didn't have that option.

[Maple]

20. Yes, and for generations

the Anglos there spoke only English, and looked down on Quebecois. Even told them to 'speak white'. Got all the best jobs.

So naturally there is a backlash.

Young people generally are bilingual as they are looking at a wider world. But for many of the older ones, it's important to pass on that heritage.

If you go to live in France, speak French

If you go to live in Quebec, speak French

When in Rome ya know....

[HEyHEY]

22. Oh I agree 100 per cent

I just don't think legislation is the answer. And I'm getting to the poitn where I think Quebec is getting strong enough to be a culture on their own without help.

But "English" communties that have been established should have the right to use english wherever they want.

[Maple]

23. Well it wasn't being honoured

voluntarily...so legislation it is.

Better than separation mon ami.

We're globalizing...we'll all get past this stage, but in the meantime, it keeps things going.

[JVS]

24. What's wrong with separation?

Would that not be the most effective way for Quebec to retain it's identity rather than forcing people to learn French? Let them decide where they want to go Canada or Quebec

[HEyHEY]

26. Plus then we could take them by force and then call ALL the shots

;-)

[JVS]

31. OVER MY DEAD BODY!

I'm not going to let a bunch of hosers from Toronto put an end to the cheap whore and stripper extravaganza that is Montreal. The English would fuck everything up! I would seriously volunteer to defend this North American treasure from your grimy clutches!

[Maple]

30. Sure, let's just break up

the second largest country on the planet...a prosperous peaceful stable nation, just because some anglos don't like french on their cereal boxes.

It's a multi-lingual world...most people in it speak more than one language. Being unilingual is not the norm.

And all the barriers in the world are coming down...we don't need any going up.

[JVS]

33. Where were you when the largest country in the world split up awhile back?

So what?

Why should Quebecers have to rely on the goodwill of the Anglos to not be wiped out?

[Maple]

37. Russia is still the largest country in the world

What split off were the satellite countries from the Soviet empire.

And of course Quebecois shouldn't have to rely on anyone's goodwill about it. Hence the laws.

Actually, I think you're arguing with the wrong person here.

[JVS]

40. Shying away from breaking up Canada because it is big is moronic

Especially because we could trim off the vast majority of Canadian land without losing much of the population, what is it 95% of you live within 100 miles of the border?

The laws you speak of are only possible if the Anglos keep on feeling that Quebec's culture is worth saving. If Anglos were to change their minds then Quebec could easily be swept under the rug

[Maple]

44. No, breaking up for no reason is moronic

And it would be a financial disaster!

And no Quebecois can't be easily swept under a rug. And certainly not by the anglos.

Where the hell are you from anyway??

[JVS]

49. What for you is no reason could be a matter of cutural survival for others

[Maple]

51. The Quebecois are thriving

and don't need to go anywhere.

Walls and barriers kill countries, they don't better them.

[HEyHEY]

52. I wouldn't say they're thriving

They are still a havenot province. ANd Bombardier is on the Rocks...

[Maple]

62. They're improving

and will shortly be booming. Major deals in the works.

There are now 4 'have' provinces, and several others will be online shortly.

[JVS]

54. Good fences make good neighbors

[Maple]

59. Canadians aren't neighbours

We're family.

[JVS]

61. People in families don't tell each other to "talk white"

Maybe abusive families.

[Maple]

64. No...that was years ago

Before the Quiet Revolution.

And I ask again...where are you posting from?

[JVS]

67. The Quiet Revolution was a change within Quebec's society.

It was not a change in the way in which Anglos related to them. Or are you suggesting that by becoming less traditionally Quebecers that they somehow became more acceptable to the Anglos?

[Maple]

70. It changed both

It gave them new confidence, and put them into the business world, and also on the national and global stage.

You don't have to be a habitant to be Quebecois.

[JVS]

73. "You don't have to be a habitant to be Quebecois."

Spoken like a true occupationist!

How is this different from the White farmers in Zimbabwe who say that they are as African as the people who are reclaiming their lands under Mugabe

[Maple]

77. LOL like I said

you just like to argue.

But see, you need a premise opposite to mine to do that.

And you don't have one.

So bon soir.

[Swede]

42. My feelings exactly Maple.

If anyone doesn't think there will be serious repercussions from Quebec seperation,they are dreaming.

[JVS]

46. If done properly and in a friendly manner, I could see it working

On the other hand, if it is the result of a long bitter struggle, that would be very bad for all involved

[Maple]

50. Except there is no need to do it

And it would shred the economy, take a huge chunk out of the country...and certainly damage us permanently.

Had it not been for the Quebecois...we would have been a very different, and much poorer, country. Financially yes, but also culturally, linguistically and morally.

I'm delighted we have them.

[JVS]

53. What's wrong with Quebec being Autonomous?

Ya'll can still be friends

[Swede]

57. It will destroy our economy,guaranteed.

The rest of Canada will be balkanized in a blink of an eye.

[JVS]

58. The EU has ecomomic cooperation despite national autonomy

[Swede]

60. So you want Canada divided into 4 smaller countries,

tiny economies, about a million times more dependant on the American economy. No thanks.

[JVS]

63. 2 is fine

Quebec and Canada

C'mon Swede, if the kind of thinking you're promoting had been used in Sweden 100 years ago Norway never would have been independent

[Maple]

65. You're tribalising

The rest of us are globalizing

[JVS]

68. You're using globalization as cover for cultural genocide

Proper globalization between Quebecers and the world can only happen if it is the voluntary undertaking of the people of Quebec. Not the paternalistic undertaking of the Ontario-based state of Canada!

[Maple]

71. LOL I think you just like to argue

And so far you've been all over the map.

Sorry, no April Fools jokes to be had here.

[Swede]

69. Of course it won't stop at 2.

Maritimes will drift away,the West will too. Then maybe Alberta will leave the West. And it will happen fast. There is nothing wrong with this great land we live in now.

[JVS]

72. If it's so great then why can it not bear to have Quebec leave?

Why will it fall asunder?

[Swede]

74. You just answered your question.

Without Quebec,Canada will quickly fall apart. I think of Canada as a family,you obviously don't.

[JVS]

75. Families don't fall apart when one member leaves

[Swede]

76. Maybe in your world.

In mine when a parent leaves,the family quickly disappates. And Quebec is one of the two founding members. No Quebec,no Canada.

[JVS]

78. So is Ontario the Serbia of Canada and Quebec the Croatia?

Does Ontario need to hold Quebec in line in order to keep BC and the eastern provinces in line. This is hardly a functional family if that is the case

[HEyHEY]

79. Don't forget - why aren't the german and Ukraine languages

Respected in ALberta? WHy isn't cantonese given special privlege in BC?

These are cultures that came here back in 1870...yet they get no treatment

[JVS]

81. Well at least they came willingly to Anglo-dominated Canada

Instead of being conquered

[HEyHEY]

82. Thankfully , had they been conquered they'd of never shut up

Like a certain other culture I know.

[JVS]

83. YOU JUST WANT TO SQUELCH THE VOICE OF FREEEEEEDOM

;-)

[HEyHEY]

84. If the voice of freedom has a French accent, yeah

[JVS]

85. OUI!

[HEyHEY]

86. Hey if it wasn't for Ontario

Pitting French Canadians Against Westerners in a sordid attempt to divide the nation and retain power we wouldn't have half the problems we do.
But hey it's good for the feds to kiss Quebec ass to make them feel special to make the west mad and then say "See frenchy, those guys don't like your culture, they wanna destroy it - keep up this French culture thing."

That way the West votes Conservative (Anti-quebec) and Quebec votes Bloc (pro-quebec) what's lost in the toss up goes to the Liberals in Ontario... hence the ruling party

[CanuckAmok]

87. The US would occupy Quebec if it separated.

No doubt about it. With the reliance on the poer grid and the airspace, there's now way our Neighbo(u)rs to the South would allow an autonimous Quebec.

If they Separate, I hope it's a la a Bugs Bunny-esque saw... "South America, take it away!".

My $0.02 is that this issue was settled on the Plains of Abraham, and should have been enforced. We're only recently 'enlightened' to the idea of multiculturalism, and we don't yet know how to accommodate multiculturalism without indulging and subsidising the whims of a minority of self-important, chain-smoking cultural isolationists.

If they want to go, let them go. If they don't then they should shut the fuck up and stop perpetuating racism and cultural elitism, or finance such programs entirely themselves.

My god, how much has it cost us, as Canadian taxpayers, to hold the same goddamned refernedum every few years?! Couldn't that money have been better spent on cultural or educational programs, or god forbid social programs? Man, the entire social fabric of this country is crumbling from a lack of maintenence, and we're spending money enabling a whiny minority who don't give a damn about national unity or Canada's legacy; all they care about is protecting the cosmetic facade of a dying culture.

[JVS]

88. That's the dumbest crock of shit I ever heard!

Typical Ontarian fearmongering. It's always "if you Quebecers/Newfies/Albertans/British Columbians don't toe the line, the filthy Yanks will swallow you whole"

[CanuckAmok]

90. I'm in Victoria...basically I don't care what happens.

The Rockies are a great physical border. I'm just waiting for the Big One, when all of Norh America except Vancouver Island slides slowly, silently (I hope) into the ocean.

So there, fuckstick!

[HEyHEY]

89. AS long as they rename it "Frenchylvania" I'm Happy

[HEyHEY]

80. Balkanize? like war?

Good I've been waiting to make a strong hold in the Cascades for years

[HEyHEY]

25. What about the people who can't learn what they want?

Have they not the same right to destiny and a life they choose as the rest of us?

[tsuki]

29. Separate, but equal?

[Maple]

34. Nope, no more walls

No more apartheid...and you can learn French or English online if you're so keen.

I'll bet learning French isn't what you want to do though. You want to force them to learn English.

Now you know why they have the language law.

[HEyHEY]

39. Actually I learned French I spent my own dime to travel to NB and Quebec

To learn it whe I was 20

[Maple]

41. Great!

So we don't need it wiped out...or your investment is for nada.

[HEyHEY]

45. HAHA

;-)

I really gotta go back there and brush up

[tsuki]

47. How do you know what I want? Immersion is a good thing. It worked

in New Brunswick. Many English speaking children learned French, and have profited from it. More speak French in NB now.

[Maple]

56. And one day

when we don't have such a phobia about language, as we meet a wider world, none of this will matter.

In the meantime, if they want to protect their language, it's fine with me. Many languages that didn't get protected, are now either extinct, or on the brink.

[yvr girl]

66. I know tons of kids who went to French Immersion

None of them were from a French background - they were just trying to broaden their opportunities.

Of course your main schools are going to be French, I don't have a problem with that.

I don't think people should be restricted though. We have French Immersion in BC. There are also Muslim schools etc. People should be able to avail themselves of any private schools they choose.

[JVS]

6. hmmm

:popcorn:

[JVS]

3. Shut up you anglophone pigdog oppressor!

;-)

I forgot we're not in the lounge

[ffwd]

32. Could Not Resist

Vive le FLQ :evilgrin:

[JVS]

35. Welcome to DU

[ffwd]

38. Had No Choice

My wife has been nagging me at for a long time now to start posting here. I guess the wine was very goos this evening!!

[Katarina]

43. heh

I guess it was.


---the wife

[ffwd]

48. Damned Crackers

:hangover:

[Katarina]

55. Well now

I guess I'm just a Florida girl who got a "D" in French (masculine/feminine bah!) but I know a good thing when I see one.

[CHIMO]

8. Don't Eat

Cornflakes anymore. They go down like pretzels without milk.

[HEyHEY]

9. Witty

Like oppresin' rights do ya?

[JVS]

10. What is this, the post from another planet?

[Swede]

13. They feel their culture is being squished by the English majority.

I don't have a problem with them seeking to preserve it. Canada would be a mere shadow of itself without Quebec.

[HEyHEY]

15. But it's none of their business to force a culture on someone

Even if it is that person culture of heritage, sure you can teach it and encourage it..but legislation? I thought this was a free country.

[tsuki]

16. Hey, HEyHEY, I am confused. I read the article, and I understand

that immigrant to Canada have been upset that their children must be educated in French. I understand that in other provinces, such as New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, parents (English speaking) may decide to place their children in French immersion. Does this bill restrict the right of French speaking parents to place their children in English immersion?

[HEyHEY]

18. It'sa bit tricky as changes were made today

I won't be 100 percent aware until I read the paper tomorrow, but yeah it used to.

If you didn't have parents from an english background it was Tough SHit.. as well if you were French and wanted to learn in English, you had to live outside Quebec and go to an english school for a year.

Does that sound fair?

AS well as I said above, I knew guys who couldn't work in their desired field because they couldn't speak English because of this kinda crap.

[tsuki]

19. But I know children in New Brunswick that started French immersion

in the first grade. They still speak English, but they are bi-lingual which is a plus in New Brunswick (the only official, as of the last I heard, bi-lingual province in Canada.)

I can understand Quebec parents being upset that their children are not allowed the same rights.

[HEyHEY]

21. I actually learned French in NB

And Quebec, but NB first...lived in Moncton.

And they should be upset, it's not fair at all.

Actually NB is offically bi, but Nunavut has like six official langs (I'd have to check that)

[tsuki]

27. Moncton. We were in Woodstock. The children all started in the 80's

in immersion. They are now sought after as employees. I always thought it was great. I understand Quebec wanting to keep the French language alive. In LA, they tried to eradicate it in the 40's ans 50's. Really sad.

[HEyHEY]

28. I LIVED IN WOODSTOCK!

ARe you "ragin Acadian"

I met another ex woodstocker here once I can't remember the name.. but the person had moved to FLA maybe it was you

[tsuki]

36. Son. Son is ragin_Acadian. Acadian from LA and NB. How's that

for some really strange DNA?:woohoo: