"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites..."

[Lone Pawn]

When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites...



...who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners...





so that others may see them.



Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.


But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.



In praying, do not babble like the pagans,


who think that they will be heard because of their many words.

Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.



Matthew 6:5-8

Explain to me why these hypocrites are portrayed as the religious ones in the mainstream media. Explain to me why actual Christians--ones who have actually read and understood a Bible--are shunted aside as 'liberal God-haters.'

And explain to me why we aren't kicking their hypocritical, pompous, spiritual-elitist asses up and down the election cycle.

[sui generis]

1. it's exactly because they are irrational and easily manipulated

by their ignorance.

The smarter and freer a population, the harder it is to get them to act cohesively. That's why messages of fear and damnation and judgement and retribution underscore fundamentalist belief.

[Lone Pawn]

4. We'll never win back the fundamentalists.

But the fundamentalists are a relatively small proportion of the population. I'm asking why we aren't trying to erase the moderate-Christian perspective that the Right are the 'holy' ones.

[The Magistrate]

39. That Is The Key, Sir

Moderate and liberal Christians must seperate from these fanatics, and denounce them as the sectarian cultists they are.

"If a man will not come to the altar save in rainment of white, he shall not come to the altar whatever his rainment."

[Donailin]

62. I think the radical rightwing xtian fundies are effectively

proving that their brand of holiness is beyond the pale. The democrats have a nice opening right now to speak with a gentle voice the gospel of Jesus, and they can start with the above quote.

[PATRICK]

84. And they MUST not let it slide

into the Great Silence. The large masses of the sane need to feel there is a leadership supporting them that will take on the incredibly corrupt media forums who have skewed the eyes and ears of America to self-destructive, barely sane extremism.

Meanwhile do the DLC candidates continue to pander to the Christian bloc that is wholly against the direction of this government as if they are like the few dozed demonstrators in Florida? Stupid stupid stupid and cowardly.

[tanyev]

2. Nominated.

[Radical Activist]

3. Great point.

This also applies to the way Bush wears religion on his sleave to win votes. He is just like the hypocrites Jesus condemned.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Yep

Now I understand a little more why people think Bush is the anti-Christ. Wouldn't surprise me.

[AmBlue]

5. Great post...... good point n/t

[johnaries]

6. Nominated, too.

You could do the same with pictures of Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, James Hobson, etc.

[verdalaven]

7. I wish I could remember chapter and verse

Anyone remember Jesus telling his followers that there would be "believers" who he would not recognize in his kingdom?

I have a feeling these are the believers he was talking about.

The one carrying the sign "Thank God for 9/11" needs some serious therapy.

[Lone Pawn]

9. Matthew 7:21

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will till them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

[verdalaven]

14. Thanks!

That's the one!

[illflem]

12. "Thank God for 9/11"

Is the rallying cry of a few far right anti-gay fringe groups who contend 9/11 was good because it occurred in NYC where they believe most of the people are gay.

[verdalaven]

18. They are scum.

Or just below scum. How do people like that live with themselves?

[okieinpain]

59. funny, my daughter is dating a young man who happens to be

black. and she told me last night that they got into an argument about jesus being black. she said that he got upset because she kept referring to him as not being white.

I just wonder what would happen if jesus decided to conduct a little test before opening the gates of heaven.

[jdots]

8. There is prayer and there is mass hysteria

Religion is being used as a competitive sporting event.Music and the arts get used the same way.The media has become a way to make people believe and behave one way or the other.
These pictures make me sad because these people could be you or me with our reasoning taken away by wanting to belong and believe.We laugh at ourselves till we think we are right all the time.

[oasis]

10. Stay clear. These are the kind of nuts who take hostages. (eom)

:crazy:

[blm]

11. Excellent effort, LP. Nominated.

.

[aden_nak]

13. I've yet to see a single right-wing-zealot sign with proper grammar.

Coincidence? I think not.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. I know what you mean

Oy. I saw one poster in another thread that said "Stop Kieling Terri." :crazy:

[aden_nak]

21. There is also some crazy capitalization. Looks like an AOL chat room.

[Lone Pawn]

50. Hey, Kiel's a city in germany...

maybe they want Michael to stop his plans to send Terri on a Continental vacation? :shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

15. You got it

It pisses me off too. I guess they missed this lesson in Sunday school and their preacher never talked about it (mine has a few times so they can always come to my church he always has great lessons).

[Lone Pawn]

20. Well, it's easier to ignore the inconvenient parts and get right to the

'abominations.' Because, you see, ambiguous quotes from the ancient tome of Leviticus--appearing next to admonitions not to eat shellfish, sell your daughter into slavery to any foreigners (but others in your nation is acceptable), or wear clothing with two types of thread--obviously outweigh the direct words of Jesus.

I swear, these people are either incredibly uninformed about the basic texts of the religion that they're devoting their life to, or they're actually trying to be stupid. I suppose the first, but it's easy to believe the second sometimes.

Sounds like you have a good church. Ours is fairly neutral, but did obliquely refer to Terri, asking us to pray 'for the lives of all those who cannot defend their own.' But, then again, since that also refers to illegal prisoners, war orphans, and unarmed civilians caught in war zones, I didn't have a problem with the message.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Very true

You're right. They love the bad stuff and ignore the Christ part. My preacher has only once referred to something in politics. He just said: "why does there have to be a right and left issues and why can't we just work towards the common ground for God?" or something similar to that. All the college age kids in my church (my age group) are pro-Bush except me and my brother who are very anti-Bush. I never saw anybody who had any "W" stickers there. I was the only one I saw who had a sticker on my car (my Kerry sticker). ;) Things usually are fine in my church. I know if my preacher ever started spewing rightwing crap I'd seriously have a chat with him.

[neverforget]

19. Isn't that flag desecration?

http://www.wi.net/flag.html

Section 4 G:
The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

[Lone Pawn]

22. As is anyone wearing a "God Bless America" T-shirt, as is anyone

with any neonationalist icon.

4d. The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.


4i. The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Yep

Sure is. I was pissed off at that. People have died for that flag and these assholes are writing shit on it. There's another photo that I've seen of Bush at some campaign rally and he's signing the flag too. It's fine to sign the stick but you're to never sign the actual flag.

[merh]

56. Don't you know, writing on it and defacing it and wearing it is okay

just don't you dare burn it! Every way you look at it, they are hypocrites!

[fob]

23. To answer your question, two words, compliant Media

To honor your photo essay - nominated

[manic expression]

24. What's up with dissing pagans? n/t

[Lone Pawn]

26. He's saying that praying aloud is pointless, because his God is omniscient

and obviously does not need you to speak aloud. Pagans seemed a good example of people who prayed aloud and had gods that required it. Jesus wasn't so much insulting pagans as saying, "Look. You know why pagans pray aloud? Their gods don't know anything and have to be told. My father, see, he knows everything and doesn't have to be told a thing. So really, praying aloud and carrying on is pointless, and even a bit insulting."

[manic expression]

34. OK...

An omniscient God can be celebrated in any genuine way, aloud or in silence.

The whole thing of saying "their Gods are not as good as my God..." so on and so forth is really wrong. Besides that, praying aloud can help one in many ways (mantras, for example), as well as joining many in collective worship. What is said and done aloud is evident on every level of existence.

Worshiping a God and asking them for something specific is done because: 1.) why would a deity give something to someone if they do not express this in some way (speaking is much the same as thinking in this)? 2.) Just as parts of a body (you can use any example here if you wish) ask for something it needs to the brain, it is only natural to voice one's needs to a greater being. 3.) to express a request to a God in the physical sense (voice, song, dance, etc...) is to use every single aspect of an individual for prayer (a person's "layers", if you will). In the end, the idea behind the prayer is what is important, if it is expressed vocally or subliminally or through thought or otherwise is immaterial. Worship aloud is the physical manifestation of the intent of the worshiper, and such prayer pervades through all levels of existence.

I'm not discrediting or arguing against the original poster's intent, only pointing out what I see as wrong in the passage used.

[Lone Pawn]

40. Valid enough points, but they do not appear in the New Testament.

Indeed, Jesus claims that such things are irrelevant. You need not ask God out loud, for God already knows both what you want and what you require. You need not dance and pray out loud, because He knows you by the way you approach Him in private. What you've posted is valid theology, but I don't believe it's fundamentalist (that is, strict-biblical) theology. And these people do claim to be fundamentalists.

[manic expression]

42. OK I gotcha

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm coming from a non-Christian philosophy, and was a bit offended by that part of the passage (my posts weren't personal). We don't agree entirely on this matter, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Lone Pawn]

48. No problem.

It's not like we're Republicans; we can get along without agreeing.

[MaraJade]

82. It is, in fact, strict Biblical theology. . .

the verses quoted were taken exactly from the Bible.

Just goes to show ya' how far afield the so-called Christian Right
is. They don't even obey the words of their own Saviour. Figures.

[Lone Pawn]

87. I'm quite aware that what I quoted came from the Bible.

Or was that not aimed at me?

[K-W]

49. You are suprised that the bible speaks ill of pagans?

Or did you think the original poster wrote that?

[Democrats_win]

25. “Those who do not work should not eat.” (2 Thessalonians 3:10).

Secular humanism, anyone?

[AnnInLa]

27. kick

[Lone Pawn]

28. kick

[Blue_In_AK]

29. Beautiful, beautiful photo essay...

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Lone Pawn]

30. Thank you.

[11 Bravo]

32. One of the finest posts I've read in some time!

The juxtaposition of the wailing hypocrites with the words of the Scripture are striking. I have nominated it as well.

[Spazito]

31. Excellent Post!

A picture is worth a thousand words shows true here.

[Greylyn58]

33. I said this in another thread, but

don't you find it incredible that these "Rapture Rightists" that basically want to shuffle of this mortal coll and go to heaven, are trying to deny Terri Schiavo that same right.

I mean, technically she has been dead for 15 years and would have died if not for the intervention of modern medicine. Why then are they trying so desperately to keep her from meeting her Lord and finally finding some peace??

These people are just beyond the pale with their version of Christianity.

[MARALE]

35. This is why I don't say the Lord's Prayer

In the sentence before the Lord's Prayer in the bible it says"Do not repeat the same words over and over again like the heathens do. Instead pray like this: Our Father, who art...

He was saying, don't just learn and repeat a prayer over and over, it loses meaning. When you pray, pray with your own thoughts.

The repeating of this prayer over and over is NOT what God wants and not what the person in the bible meant by saying "pray like this." I am always amazed at how few people in my church has actually read their bibles. When I try to talk about what I read, people admit that they don't read them.

I just don't get how people can dedicate their lives to something as much as this and they don't even research it.

[MaraJade]

83. Very astute!

[thinkingwoman]

36. By their fruits...

you will know them.

If it looks like a hypocrite, and sounds like a hypocrite and acts like a hypocrite...

[maxsolomon]

41. the part of this parable i never get

is "they have recieved their reward"

they have? they're rewarded for this behavior or not? does it mean that their reward is the hollow attention they recieve, and not the presence of the divine?

i just don't get what this means.

[thinkingwoman]

44. Yes

"does it mean that their reward is the hollow attention they recieve, and not the presence of the divine?"

I think it means that, and more. They have achieved their highest standing and they will go no further. They have nothing higher/better/more to look forward to. Their status among men is as good as it's gonna get. That sort of thing.

[Lone Pawn]

46. Their reward is the hollow attention and praise for being 'holy men.'

For instance, Jerry Falwell's reward is his wealth and ministries and adoring followers, NOT anything related to the divine or afterlife.

[dolo amber]

43. More votes needed for Greatest Page

:)


Excellent post, LP. :hi:

edit: Ok, it's already on the Greatest page. Nevermind! :D

[Lone Pawn]

47. Hey, it's not like more votes'll kick it off the Greatest ;)

Edit: Wow, it's at the top of Greatest! Thanks, guys! :hi:

[Kansas Wyatt]

45. Wonder if these people ever invested as much time and energy...

Into actually praying and caring for the sick, disabled, and poor?

[luvLLB]

51. I was a Christian once, but not anymore, especially now...

[info being]

52. You asked:

"And explain to me why we aren't kicking their hypocritical, pompous, spiritual-elitist asses up and down the election cycle."

Because we take them too serious. We have to treat the loonies like the loonies. Don't talk with them. Mock them. Make them embarassed. Marginalize them.

That's what they in most secular countries.

[Lone Pawn]

54. I don't think we should marginalize them for being religious, though.

For better or for worse, most Americans call themselves religious. We should marginalize them for *not* being religious, if you get my meaning. We're the religious ones.

[info being]

57. We should marginalize people for being morons

We should get people to aspire to not being a moron.

[Lone Pawn]

61. Unfortunately, in this administration, being a moron puts you

on the fast track for promotion. As long as you're a loyal moron.

A nation of loyal morons. What a great idea.

[Bridget Burke]

53. Al Gore was raised Baptist, although he's moved away from the SBC.

He was even in a seminary for a while after returning from Vietnam. And John Kerry seems to know the Bible pretty well for a Catholic.

It would have been all wrong from a Church/State separation angle, but I've had a recurring wish that a presidential debate could have been devoted to explicating quotes from the Bible. Shrub would have been destroyed....

[Lone Pawn]

55. ...for a Catholic? What does that mean?

Do Catholics know the Bible worse than Protestants or Orthodox Christians do?:shrug:

[Ron Green]

72. Catholics aren't known for the kind of intensive Bible study that you find

in many Protestant circles. I remember Baptist kids in my hometown who excelled at finding verses quickly, reciting all the books of the Bible, etc. Their Sunday school activity was called "Training Union."

[Bouncy Ball]

58. THANK YOU!!!!!

Humility and not beating your chest and banging the pots and pans about how CHRISTIAN you are is how I was raised!!!!

I was taught to think it was the pinnacle of rudeness to go throwing your beliefs, your prayer and your good deeds into everyone's face.

That's why I am continually blown away by the behavior of these people, despite the fact that it shouldn't surprise me by now.

They HATE that verse, btw. I had one tell me, "It's like everyone wants us to be oppressed and ashamed, all praying silently in a dark corner or something."

NO, it means don't go showing off, ya bastage. Be HUMBLE. It doesn't mean prayer is shameful. It means there's NO NEED to be all loud and show-offey about it. If you believe God is all powerful, don't you believe He hears even the "praise of thanksgiving in the breast of the robin, even the prayer of the worm" (that's from Hans Christian Andersen, not the Bible, but it fits here)???

[Lone Pawn]

60. Oh, how beautifully ironic.

"I mean, everyone wants us all to be praying silently in a dark corner or something!"

"Yes. And that everyone includes Jesus himself."

"...oh."

[Bouncy Ball]

64. Yeah, I did bring that up, too.

That JC said that Himself. She added on that "everyone" part because she said a few members of the religious left had quoted that passage to her (good, sounds like we're more active than people think we are).

Oh yes, we all just want to oppress them. :eyes: There's that Cult of Victimization again.

[Lone Pawn]

65. I know! I don't know how they go on with such oppression!

They rant and rave to the media about how everyone else needs to follow Scripture better, about how our nation is one of moral failure...but heaven forbid you mention the plank in their eye! Heaven forbid you join their quest by mentioning one more passage they've overlooked! Don't you know that pointing them to another direct command from Jesus is oppression of their Christian religious beliefs? Jesus went around preaching morality, so they will too, regardless of what you, me, or Jesus has to say about it--and that's that!

[Bouncy Ball]

66. Two examples of times

I was knocked speechless by fundies:

1. One told me "peace is overrated." Yep. A CHRISTIAN told me that. Or a supposed one.

2. A guy told me that "Christians are CALLED to judge. HAVE to judge others. It's our JOB to judge others."

I was gobsmacked. I asked him where he got that idea.

He said "There's a book in the Bible called 'Judges.' 'Nuff said."

I would have fallen over laughing if it weren't so sad and pathetic.

The book Judges says nothing judging others, it was WRITTEN by judges AND it's in the OLD TESTAMENT. God, what a turd that guy was. He also was a wife beater.

[Lone Pawn]

67. Actually laughed out loud at the second one.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard today. I would say all week, but I've heard a lot about Schiavo, especially regarding "I want to live." :banghead:

[Bouncy Ball]

68. Well, remember this same guy

was a known wife beater AND believed we should be allowed to bring guns into schools, churches and hospitals.

I felt really icky and creeped out just being near him. He was poll greeting for the opponent on election day so I had to be out there with him (100 feet from the polling door) ALL freaking day long. With his wife who would jump every time he turned around to look at her and winced once when he went to put up his umbrella. I already knew about him through someone else and was none too happy to be at the same polling place with that freak.

[Lone Pawn]

69. Okay, now I'm creeped out by him.

What a complete idiot.

[Biased Liberal Media]

80. I was once told by a fundie that Xians are allowed to judge

each other. WTF??

[dhinojosa]

63. Roger Ebert said it best.....

This is really an argument between two kinds of prayer--vertical and horizontal. I don't have the slightest problem with vertical prayer. It is horizontal prayer that frightens me. Vertical prayer is private, directed upward toward heaven. It need not be spoken aloud, because God is a spirit and has no ears. Horizontal prayer must always be audible, because its purpose is not to be heard by God, but to be heard by fellow men standing within earshot.

To choose an example from football, when my team needs a field goal to win and I think, ''Please, dear God, let them make it!''--that is vertical prayer. When, before the game, a group of fans joins hands and ''voluntarily'' recites the Lord's Prayer--that is horizontal prayer. It serves one of two purposes: to encourage me to join them, or to make me feel excluded.

Although some of the horizontal devout are sincere, others use this prayer as a device of recruitment or intimidation. If you are conspicuous in your refusal to go along, they may even turn and pray while holding you directly in their sights.

This simple insight about two kinds of prayer, which is beyond theological question, should bring a dead halt to the obsession with prayer in public places. It doesn't, because the purpose of its supporters is political, not spiritual.

--Roger Ebert

[seito]

70. We allow them to frame the issues

Great post!

[OrlandoGator]

71. My favorite verse of the entire Bible.

Jesus was crystal-clear about what he thought of hypocrites.

[WLKjr]

73. My mom tells me everything I need to know

in fact she told me this once when I told her I do not wish everyone to know what I believe becuase it was very personal and that is why I do not attend church, or associate with crazy people pictured in the photos above.


Funny how when you actually READ the good book, it actaully tells you about people like this and why they think they are right when they are actually wrong.

[OrlandoGator]

74. It's all in there.

People who crazily made a public spectacle of their "faith" were around back then and Jesus was clear about how he felt.

[AuntiBush]

75. Because the CON's are not true Believers!

Corporate Owned News (Con's) only feel "blessed" when they make $$$ on a story. They enable those on the wicked Hill, diminishing our once great country like no other before them.

That's why you'll not see the MediaWhores show anything else but this. Remember... "turn the other cheek," to show "dignity to thine enemy!"

[Lone Pawn]

76. You see, we have to play the media too. People love to see this, but they

love to see people exposed as hypocrites, and they love scapegoats. We need to make *them* the outsiders, and the media will dutifully follow.

[Mr_Spock]

77. What on earth are those ass-holes doing to that flag??

These people have NO respect for our country - fucking freaks...

[Lone Pawn]

78. Didn't you hear?

It's *their* flag now. They own America and everything to do with it, because God Loves Them! Jesus is their buddy!

[Mr_Spock]

79. Even their retarded leader signed a flag. So much for respecting the flag!

Stupid psychotic morons - they self-destruct every time becasue they are all angry self-absorbed bigots who can't handle the responsibility of governing.

[MaraJade]

81. This is a WONDERFUL post. . .

It truly highlights the double-faced standards of so many who claim to be christians. They persist in turning things into a circus
whenever doing so meets their needs to sway a gullible public.

[merh]

85. Worthy of a kick!

:kick:

[datasuspect]

86. a-fucking-men brother or sister

[YellowRubberDuckie]

88. Honestly?

*And explain to me why we aren't kicking their hypocritical, pompous, spiritual-elitist asses up and down the election cycle.*

We are busy not being hypocrites and we're turning the other cheek. We're simply praying that they stop being hypocrites and God truly touches their hearts.
Duckie