If you are not clear on Schiavo case this site ROCKS! It's unbiased too

[Quixote1818]

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

[barb162]

1. I scannned the site quickly. I always come bacl to the same thing

and that is even if a totally important part of her brain has turned into spinal fluid, what damage does it do to her to be turned over to her parents? Her parents clearly can't let go yet....

It is such a totally sad situation

[Quixote1818]

2. The court decided that being taken off life support was what Terri

wanted based on Michaels testimony and several others. Based on the law they HAVE to follow her wishes. Once that decision was made not even Michael could change the outcome. See following:

Recently, Michael received an offer of $1 million, and perhaps a second offer of $10 million, to walk away from this case and permit Terri's parents to care for her. These offers, assuming there were two, were based on a misunderstanding of the situation here. Michael lacks the power to undo the court order determining Terri's wishes and requiring the removal of her feeding tube. He did not make the decision and cannot unmake it. The court made the decision on Terri's behalf. Nonetheless, Michael apparently rejected each offer.

[RetroLounge]

3. You miss the point, like other here.

Her husband is her guardian, and the courts rules in his favor.

Let it go...

RL

[Quixote1818]

4. Actually, I think they simply ruled on what seemed to be Terri's wishes

It was a combo of Michaels testimony and several others. If the parents testimony had been more convincing than Michaels the court could just as easily ruled the other way. The court was looking after Terri first from what I understand.

[barb162]

27. I think I am not missing any points; philosophically it depends on

which point one chooses to concentrate

[soothsayer]

5. I'm with you. But we're voices in the wilderness in this pro-death

DU. I thought the other side liked to kill! Yeesh.

[hollywood926]

7. It makes a HUGE case against marriage, in my opinion

Imagine being married to someone for only five years and having their decisions supercede that of the people who created you, raised you and love you like only only a parent can.

Imagine that he decides you should slowly starve to death while your parents helplessly watch and the courts take his side because, after all, he has known you for five whole years and he owns you.

I will NEVER get married!

[mondo joe]

13. So if a gay man was in a coma you'd be ok with his fundy parents

banning his life partner from visiting him, or participating in his care?

[cynatnite]

16. Only five years??

Is that all? How many years does it take for a spouse's right to matter? Ten? Twenty?

What makes my husbands love for me any less than my mother's??

Are you saying that my husband, who IS MY NEXT OF KIN, should not be recognized as important??

Maybe it's a good thing you don't get married. You're spouse would be just ignored should you ever be in this tragic situation.

[barb162]

21. I was married for 5 yrs and then divorced. I would have wanted my

mom to make decisions for me at that time if I had been mentally compromised and still married.

[bettyellen]

37. and you could maybe give your parents rights over your children, too.

leave hubby out of the loop on all issues regarding the family.
since daddy knows best.

[ima_sinnic]

18. a brain-dead person doesn't "starve to death"

. . . the body that is being kept alive by injection of nutrients just shuts down, that's all. no brain, no pain.

[Auntie Bush]

19. Instead of not getting married...give your parents Power of Attorney

and Health Care Proxy and write a Will. Then you should have no problem. Make your wishes known to loved ones around you...just in case.

[w4rma]

38. You shouldn't get married if you don't think you could trust your husband

with those responsibilities. In fact, you should probably remain single the rest of your life, and stick with boyfriends and one-night stands.

Don't you think the best solution would be to find a husband who you can trust?

[mondo joe]

11. Too bad you don't believe in the right of the individual to make her

own choices.

[ima_sinnic]

17. oh please, cut the melodrama.

the woman is dead, she can't function in any way whatsoever. she can't think, she can't feel, she can't speak or hear or touch, she can't smile or frown or laugh. she is basically just a body with chemicals circulating that keep the body alive.

I gather from your post that if you were to be in her condition, robbing resources from the living, a heartbreak to those who love you, and a burden, you would choose it anyway? you want your brain-dead body to be kept alive artificially? people like you are the ones who should have a so-called "living will," not the other 98% of the population who would wish to die when their time comes.

[K-W]

23. Sorry that propaganda only works on idiots and republicans.

DU luckily is relatively free of both, except for the idiot republican disruptors.

[femme.democratique]

31. Pro-death? So sanctimonious! Give me a break!

Sorry that I'm more concerned about people are actually alive and who NOBODY seems to care about as opposed to a womanVegetable who DIED 15 years ago (she died and was brought back to "life" if you can call it that) and wasn't allowed to die with dignity!

Come off of it, you have no conception of what pro-death actually means!

[bettyellen]

36. no one's killing anyone. sheesh. where'd ya get the RW talking points?

did they mail you a copy too?

[immoderate]

40. A bit of a leap here.

Whom are you accusing of this? I don't see any joy coming from anyone who is in favor of following Terri's wishes and ending what is already a non existence. She gets fed through a tube, and it comes out of her bowels. Would you offer to change places with her?

Being a "voice in the wilderness" is what you want to be. Some of us have to deal with reality. Her brain is gone. There is no denying that. Democrats, at least, need a brain to live.

--IMM

[sandnsea]

6. Her husband made a commitment to her

I guess marriage really has deteriorated in this country when people don't recognize marriage vows and marital love equally to parental love. It really is sad.

[hollywood926]

8. Why would marital love be equal to parental love?

Marital is an extension of romantic love, but it is not the same as the love a parent has for his or her child. It's not even close!

(unless you're a psycho like Susan Smith)

[mondo joe]

10. Because we CHOOSE a spouse. No one chooses a parent.

We get to CHOOSE who will be our voice when we have none.

There are wonderful parents, there are terrible parents. But no one has chosen their parents.

[sandnsea]

12. It's usually MORE

My husband and I love each other more than our parents love us. I wouldn't presume that my daughter's husband doesn't feel the same about her. I don't love my children more than I love my husband at all. It's sad if people don't have that in their lives, or don't even know marital love is supposed to be that way.

[K-W]

24. Are you arguing that most people are closer to thier parents

than thier spouses?

Wanna prove that?

Our entire civil legal structure is based upon the opposite assumption.

[bettyellen]

32. i'm sorry you married someone you have no faith in... but please spare the

rest of us from the consequences of your foolish choices.
if terri and michael has the children that they had been planning, no one would dare besmirch their union. her parents would be too busy fussing over the grandkids to try and kick michael out of their family. no one would be talking about giving terri back to her parents. patriarchal bullshit.

[Auntie Bush]

20. And isn't it the Fundies who are pushing MARRIAGE and some

even say the HUSBAND is boss. No flip flop here when now they say the parents should be boss and the husband subservient.
OK freepers...which one is it?

[bettyellen]

35. well, if she had just been a good little breeder they would have let her

husband be and not try to destroy the marriage. but a childless woman? still her parents' baby in their mind.

[mondo joe]

9. So you are willing to defy her choices about this and her choice

of legal guardian because she can no longer defend herself?

[barb162]

22. we don't know her choice (except her husband's version)

[K-W]

25. Right, so we do know her choice.

The court concluded that it did have enough evidence as to her will.

We have laws designed to deal with these situations, they have, and the only reason anyone has presented to doubt the process is that they dont like the outcome.

[barb162]

26. I think either outcome (keep her body alive or let her body die )

is tragic

[moobu2]

28. but Terri's already dead and has been for 15 years.

I've been following this case pretty closely for years and years and trust me, the Schindlers aren't the kind of people they pretend to be on TV.

They sold their daughter to anti-abortionists years ago. What people are getting from their side is a very well crafted public relations campaign meant to appeal to emotion. Very little of the Schindlers story is based on fact other than the names of the parties involved.

[barb162]

29. I don't mean to argue but I haven't heard that she is "brain dead" but

that she is in a persistent veg. state. I don't really know if there is a diff either as I have never really followed it closely. I am horrified it has become such a political football the last few months, including that evil bastard DeLay talking about it on TV yesterday like he gives a crap. Oh and Bush going back to Wash,DC today to sign emergency legislation.

[bettyellen]

34. exactly- using lies and innuendo merely because they dislike the outcome..

most of these people have no clue that tubes are quietly taken out all the time.
i have never heard such ignorance and rumour mongering on DU on any single issue.

[msanthrope]

30. Sure Barb--why don't we just keep Terri alive for her parents

sake? After all, what damage does it do when another human being's best interests are subverted all so their parents can feel better?

The court determined not only her best interests, but decided what Terri would have wanted. That is more important that the Schindler's feelings. It's more important that Tom DeLay's feelings.

She's not a cocker spaniel, to be given over to a 'better owner' to assuage feelings of sentimentality.

[KC21304]

14. Thanks for posting this, Quixote.

Everyone should read this, especially the report written by the Guardian ad litem who was unbiased and chosen by both sides. No one should criticize Michael Schiavo until they read this. What Jeb Bush did is unspeakable.

[KC21304]

15. To me this is the most important part.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

It tells the whole story, not just the lies we hear over and over. This family is being used.

[Quixote1818]

33. OH MY FUCKING GOD! Most of the posts on here show people

did not even read what was on the site I posted. This shows people don't even want to know the truth, they just want to argue with people with emotion rather than facts. Click on the link and take five minutes and read what is on the site! For Christ sake! :puke:

[w4rma]

39. You probably should have posted some of the more pertient quotes from

the site, rather than just posting a link to it.