Free at last, free at last-- thank God Almighty, she is free at last!

[Cuban_Liberal]

No rational person would deny that Cuba is a totalitarian Communist dictatorship with an appalling human-rights record; their mistreatment of dissidents and dissidents' family members is well-documented by such impartial human-rights groups as Amnesty International. Nonetheless, for reasons known only to the Castro government itself, it will occasionally cease its calculated cruelty toward one or more of these people, and act in a humane and civilized manner. I know well all of these things, both good and bad, yet it is a good reason that prompts this post.

Shortly after 5:00 a.m. CST today, I received a phone call from my mother informing me that my 83 year-old grandmother has arrived safely in Miami, having flown there from Havana via Toronto. For 20 years, she has sought an exit visa to visit her children and grandchildren, all of whom escaped Cuba and now live in the US, and for 20 years the Castro government has refused her annual request. My grandmother's only 'crime'--- the reason her visa application was denied for 20 consecutive times---was her obstinate refusal to divorce my late, 'politically unreliable' grandfather ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=1086125 ). With his death in May of last year, this impediment apparently ceased to even have any validity with the monsters who rule Cuba, and she will now be allowed to meet her grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and to reunite with her children, some of whom she has not seen in almost 40 years.

Lest some here mistakenly think that I approve of our government's hard-line policies toward Cuba, let me state clearly and unequivocally that I do not; these pig-headed pieces of legislation serve only to harm ordinary Cubans, and weaken the Castro regime minimally, if at all. Like virtually every Cuban-American with family remaining in the totalitarian, Communist 'workers paradise' that is Cuba, however, I am deeply embittered toward the Castro regime and all who serve it and defend it, yet I have nothing but compassion for the people of Cuba themselves, for those very people include members of my own family, their friends and neighbors.

My grandmother will never return to Cuba unless, God willing, a free and democratic government replaces the Castro regime in her remaining years; when she dies, she will die a free person in a free nation, yet she and we will grieve at the thought that even in death, Castro's regime will inflict one final indignity on her--- the right to rest in the earth next to her beloved husband.

I go to Miami later today, and I go with true joy in my heart, because a long-held prayer has received the answer it sought. Be happy for me and my family, because there is true reason for celebration, but remember the reason why this reunion will have its bittersweet aspect, as well.

Peace.

--Tony

[RPM]

1. Congrats!!!

All the best to you and your family!

[Cuban_Liberal]

10. Thank you!

:)

[porphyrian]

2. I bet she can cook... - n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. I bet she can, too!

;)

[etherealtruth]

3. This is wonderful for your family.

Travel safely.

[Cuban_Liberal]

12. Thank you.

We will.

:)

[Bunny]

4. That is good news!

I hope she enjoys many years of freedom.

[Cuban_Liberal]

14. Thank you.

:)

[demnan]

5. I'm happy for you and your family

Sorry it took so long but glad she made it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

15. Thank you.

:)

[charlie]

6. Good news, indeed

Congratulations, CL. Has she ever visited before? If not, she's gonna have her mind blown. Going from Havana to Miami will be like riding a time machine from 1959 to 2005.

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. No, she has never been out of Cuba.

Indeed, her mind is already blown, according to my mother!

:)

[soup]

7. Enjoy the time you will have together.

I'm very happy for you and your family.

Smiles and hugs.

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Thank you.

:)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Congrats, Cubey!

This is truly a special time for you. Make so much of the time you have with her.

I am no fan of Castro. I look at him and I see a strutting martinet, a man enamoured of his self-proclaimed legend. 3-5 hour speeches only serve to illustrate a man in love with the sound of his own voice. He has kept, well past his time, Cuba as a personal plaything.

That said, there are some good things there, like the healthcare system. Is it a socialist paradise? No friggin' way. Not even close, but after all this time, they had to have a few successes. Just the law of averages.

But we, as a country, need to stop raising the stature of Castro in the world. Our actions do just that. We make him larger than life and more important than he needs to be. He is simply a barnyard rooster that dresses up in soldier drag, to invoke a time long past and increasingly irrelevant.

But he does serve a purpose: He gives demagogues someone to point at and blame, although not as much, these days. We have terrorists now. They are the "A" list bete noires.

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. There is much truth is what you say.

Your views are realstic, and not warped in either direction.

:pals:

[Mika]

13. Um.. you and your family can't go to Cuba as per W*'s rules not Castro

Cuba dropped any and all visa requirements for Americans and US residents to visit Cuba in 2004.

It is Bush's crackdown on travel to Cuba that limits visits to Cuba to DIRECT family members (that is: parents and children only) once every three years.

Of course your grandmother can't go back to Cuba - Bush's new laws prevent her, not the Cuban gov.

-

Sorry about your loss. :(

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. You're incorrect.

Cuba maintains a list of 'politically undesirable' individuals to whom entry visas are to be denied; my mother, her 2 sisters and 5 brothers are on that list, so Bush's* restrictions are merely redundantly stupid. In my grandmother's case, she retains her right to return as a Cuban citizen, and nothing in our laws denies her that right.

For your remining thought, I thank you.

:)

[Mika]

30. Sorry, you are wrong

"In my grandmother's case, she retains her right to return as a Cuban citizen, and nothing in our laws denies her that right."

Bush new laws do restrict travel by Cuban-Americans to Cuba to direct relatives every three years.

I live in Miami and do know this to be fact because many of my Cuban friends who used to travel to visit relatives can not do so any more (because their direct relatives are either dead or no longer in Cuba).


Cuba had dropped any and all requirements for an entry visa from US citizens and residents (including Cuban "exiles").

Even former anti Castro terrorists, CANF members, Brigade 2506 members, and Alpha 66 members can and have returned to Cuba without a visa.


Example - Anti Castro terrorist Eloy Gutierrez-Menoyo

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/dialogue/menoyo-remains-03.htm

[Cuban_Liberal]

32. I am NOT wrong.

What part of the concept of 'politically unreliable' people being denied entry visas is unclear?

:wtf:

[Mika]

34. You are wrong

Cuba DOES NOT require any entry visa anymore.

There isn't even an application procedure anymore. It is not required.


What part of DOES NOT REQUIRE do you not understand?

[Cuban_Liberal]

38. Yes, they do.

They don't just permit anyone and everyone who decides o a whim that they want to visit Cuba entry, I am sorry to inform you. If you believe ANYTHING other than that Cuba maintains a list of people it will NEVER allow entry, then you believe a fantasy.

[Mika]

44. Sorry, they don't

It is Bush's laws that restrict American and US residents travel to Cuba, NOT the Cuban government.

Bush's recent crackdown on Cuba travel was in response to Cuba's dropping of any entry visa requirement for Americans and US residents last year.

It is fantasy to state that they still do.


That is how Eloy Gutierrez-Menoyo got into Cuba and is still there.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mika]

57. Got a link to prove your assertion?

Show me where one would apply for a so called Cuban entry visa for US citizens and residents?

It'll be hard to find. Because there isn't any such requirement.

It is the US government that restricts travel to and from Cuba, not Cuba.

[Cuban_Liberal]

63. Sorry, but my Mom's not online yet.

I don't have a link to prove that it was snowing when I woke up this morning, but it was, all the same.

:eyes:

[Mika]

65. LOL

I see.

Cuban law - according to your mother? :crazy:



Got a link for the application for a so called "Cuban entry visa" for US citizens and residents?

[Cuban_Liberal]

66. Actually, I'm not that obsessed with the subject.

It seems odd, I'm sure,that I wouldn't have bookmarked 1000's of such sites, but unlike some people, I'm not obsessed with attacking OR defending Cuba; furthermore, my mother's not a liar.

Have a nice day, since this is the last reply I'll be making to you on this subject.

[Mika]

67. So, you can't find an entry visa application.

You can't find a Cuban entry visa application - because there isn't one.

Granted, there used to be - but not any more.

That is why Bush instituted new and harsh travel restrictions (which I know you disagree with :thumbsup: ).


Your supposition doesn't make sense in that you are asserting that Americans and US residents who travel to Cuba via a third country to sneak around US travel restrictions have applied for and received a Cuban entry visa without the US government knowing? How would they do that?

It doesn't make sense because it (a so called "Cuban entry visa") isn't required.

[Cuban_Liberal]

68. Link:

http://www.marazul.com/forms/visa-prf.pdf

This is my final post on the subject.

"Visa Applications
For travelers born in Cuba,* one of the following types of visa is required:
AO10 - Is valid for one entry, allows a maximum of 21 days stay and is valid for 90 days from the approval date. You must present:

* Valid Cuban Passport (if applies) or
* Valid U.S. Passport or
* Valid residency card or valid reentry/multiple permit
* Four photos

...."



* emphasis mine

http://www.marazul.com/travel/cubanamerican/visas/

[Mika]

70. That is a link for a US travel visa, not a Cuban entry visa

Travel to Cuba by US citizens and US residents must be approved by the US government and requires a US travel visa (in order to return to the US legally from Cuba) - that is the form that you linked to. Cuba is a "restricted" country according to the US gov, and a travel visa is required by the US gov.

There is no "Cuban entry visa" application on that website.

Cuba has dropped entry visa requirements for US citizens and residents.


That is how anti Castro terrorist Eloy Gutierrez-Menoyo got into Cuba.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/dialogue/menoyo-remains-03.htm

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Yo Mika, I have to tell you something...

I love you man. :loveya:

[DemBones DemBones]

124. Mika, I usually enjoy your posts, but this is a time to let Cuban Liberal

enjoy his grandmother's freedom to visit, not argue about what Cuban and US laws are governing travel between the two countries. He will find out soon enough if he's mistaken or you are.

It's amazing that a thread like this turned contentious!

[tkmorris]

133. I hate to say this but

that is at least partially CL's fault. I have been biting my tongue to avoid responding to some things here for precisely that reason, allowing CL to enjoy a family reununion. And for the record I hope he does.

However he KNEW that posting this in the way he did would raise a hackle or two. If he wanted to share the good news of reuniting with his grandmother he could have done it without the diatribe.

Cuban Liberal I do wish you and your family a happy time. In the spirit of true Liberalism I will not take issue with the political arguments you raised, I don't think this is the time for such things. We can argue over it when you get back :evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

139. You get my point that this is not a thread to argue about Castro,

but to celebrate that Tony can see his abuela whom he has never seen before.

There's a time and a place for arguing about Castro. THIS is the time and place for saying "Congratulations, Cuban Liberal! Enjoy the reunion!"

With many smiles!!! :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7 :) :) :) :D :D :D :7 :7 :7

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mika]

169. "far left lunatic"

Interesting that the posters fixated on hating Castro stoop to personal ad hominem attacks. (But those posts don't get deleted. :shrug: )


Actually, I used to believe most of the US line-o'-crap about Cuba - until I went there to see the place for myself (legally). I have gone back many times, including during the entire 1997-98 election season - where I witnessed campaigns, candidate selections for the slate, elections, and finally the ratification elections of the elected candidates.

To free thinking people (like most all on this thread), it is insane that the US gov doesn't allow US citizens to travel to Cuba easily, but it is for a reason that this is so - so y'all won't see the truth for yourselves and continue to wallow in BushCrimeNazi Inc propaganda.


Cuba is NOTHING like the picture that US propaganda paints of the place! Nothing.



For those interested..
__

http://www.gksoft.com/govt/en/cu.html

* Partido Comunista de Cuba (PCC) {Communist Party of Cuba}
* Partido Demócrata Cristiano de Cuba (PDC) {Christian Democratic Party of Cuba} - Oswaldo Paya's Catholic party
* Partido Solidaridad Democrática (PSD) {Democratic Solidarity Party}
* Partido Social Revolucionario Democrático Cubano {Cuban Social Revolutionary Democratic Party}
* Coordinadora Social Demócrata de Cuba (CSDC) {Social Democratic Coordination of Cuba}
* Unión Liberal Cubana {Cuban Liberal Union}

Plenty of info on this long thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6300&forum=DCForumID70


http://www.poptel.org.uk/cuba-solidarity/democracy.htm

This system in Cuba is based upon universal adult suffrage for all those aged 16 and over. Nobody is excluded from voting, except convicted criminals or those who have left the country. Voter turnouts have usually been in the region of 95% of those eligible .

There are direct elections to municipal, provincial and national assemblies, the latter represent Cuba's parliament.

Electoral candidates are not chosen by small committees of political parties. No political party, including the Communist Party, is permitted to nominate or campaign for any given candidates.

--

Representative Fidel Castro was elected to the National Assembly as a representative of District #7 Santiago de Cuba.
He is one of the elected 607 representatives in the Cuban National Assembly. It is from that body that the head of state is nominated and then elected. Raul Castro, Carlos Large, and Ricardo Alarcon and others were among the nominated last year. President Castro has been elected to that position since 1976.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/do/Dorticos.html

Dorticós Torrado, Osvaldo

1919–83, president of Cuba (1959–76). A prosperous lawyer, he participated in Fidel Castro’s revolutionary movement and was imprisoned (1958). He escaped and fled to Mexico, returning to Cuba after Castro’s triumph (1959). As minister of laws (1959) he helped to formulate Cuban policies. He was appointed president in 1959. Intelligent and competent, he wielded considerable influence. In 1976 the Cuban government was reorganized, and Castro assumed the title of president; Dorticós was named a member of the council of state.

The Cuban government was reorganized (approved by popular vote) into a variant parliamentary system in 1976.

You can read a short version of the Cuban system here,
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html

Or a long and detailed version here,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books



___

This is what the representative government of Cuba has done (among other things).



Learn from Cuba
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

[sandnsea]

170. Go live there

I don't understand why you don't if it's the perfect society.

One can accept the good in a country without buying into the political rhetoric that 95% of the people are voting because they want to. And pretending that voting for an approved slate of candidates who will always vote in Castro is a free election.

I just don't get the need for the denial of the negative in order to support the positive.

[Mika]

175. Where do I say that Cuba is a "perfect society"?

You won't find one post where I have said that Cuba is a "perfect society". Not one.

That is a radical response to my posting about what is actually the system in Cuba.

I don't get the need to distort my posts or resort to ad hominem attack in order to support your position.


Cubans do vote for their representatives. You are saying that Cubans don't want to vote and are somehow forced to do so? You are, and you are grossly mistaken. I've been there during an entire election season and seen that no such pressure is put upon Cubans against their will. It is tantamount to an anti Cuban slur to suggest that Cubans don't want to vote and/or are 'forced' to.

[sandnsea]

177. Iraqi's weren't forced either

They all came out to vote for Saddam out of pure love for the man. :eyes: Some things don't have to be overt for the people to know they have to be done.

In order to make a choice, a person has to know that another choice exists. It is just incomprehensible to me that you would buy the notion that an entire country AGREES on the politics of their country. I live in a town of 7,000 and there is almost never agreement on anything. Common sense should tell you complete agreement is abnormal, not true, and is the evidence that Cuba is not a democracy and Castro is not freely chosen.

[Mika]

178. Just where did i say that

"It is just incomprehensible to me that you would buy the notion that an entire country AGREES on the politics of their country."

I said no such thing.

Why do you insist on distorting my posts?


Instead of continuing to flail and distort posts, maybe you should look at some of the links I've posted on the Cuban electoral system. Candidates run against each other. The winners of the various seats and positions are elected by a simple majority - using paper ballots that are counted in public.

[sandnsea]

179. And they all agree with each other

and they all agree that Castro is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Ain't enlightened democracy grand!!

[Mika]

181. If you say so.

To you, it seems, black or white. No middle ground.


Cuba's system of government is a variant parliamentary system.

But, if you insist on believing otherwise and continue denigrating Cubans in Cuba, go ahead.

[sandnsea]

182. I'm denigrating Castro

and people who can't see a dictatorship when it's right in front of their faces. That has nothing to do with the Cuban people, but I know you have to twist my words to mean that to help you maintain your delusion of Castro as the hero of the people.

[Mika]

184. 1st Cubans are forced to vote, next it has nothing to do with the Cubans

Why continue with the ad hominem attacks? Stop flailing and calm down. You are all over the map.



1st.. "One can accept the good in a country without buying into the political rhetoric that 95% of the people are voting because they want to." - sandndea post #170


now.. "That has nothing to do with the Cuban people.." - sandndea post #182


So, which is it? Are Cubans somehow forced to vote for their representatives in parliament, or does their election to parliament have "nothing to do with the Cuban people"?



I've seen an entire Cuban election season, start to finish. It was the most participatory plebiscite I've ever seen.

You can continue to spout what you believe, but I can state from personal experience that you are wrong.

DUers should read the links I've posted in post #169, including you.

[noiretextatique]

183. if only usaers could feel as much passion about their own

fascist dictators, of the far right variety, perhaps we might have as high a literacy rate as cuba. alas, too many of else settle for feeling superior, and remaining in complete denial about all of the above.

[sandnsea]

187. What good is reading?

If all you've got to read is Foxnews? That's Cuba, I've read their "news" and it's all propaganda. It's unbelievable to me that people who can so readily recognize propaganda in this country can't see it in another.

I don't blame the people, it's hard to break out of 50 years of propaganda.

[noiretextatique]

188. i get my news from people

who've actually been to cuba, and some who live there. you definitely can't trust corporate/government media for unbiased information about cuba or the usa. unfortunately, too many usaers do believe the hype about cuba and the usa. if that weren't the case, bush, inc would not be in power HERE.

[sandnsea]

190. oh good grief

Why do you assume I was referring to CNN or some such stupidity? I've read Cuban news from Cuba, Castro's speeches, and it's just as slanted as anything Foxnews would put out on the other side. Just like al jazeera.

It isn't to say there isn't any truth in it, but for chrissake, you can't take it at face value.

I'm sure you could have found plenty of Iraqi minders to tell you how wonderful Saddam was too, doesn't mean they meant it. Also doesn't mean there weren't people who benefitted greatly from Saddam's regime and would like to have it back. Doesn't mean that's the way the country as a whole feels about it.

Do the Bush lovers represent the US?

I do not understand the ability to put all objectivity aside when it comes to supporting leftist regimes.

If Cubans want Castro-style socialism and Castro wants to prove to the world that the people truly want his form of governance, why doesn't he step down so it can be proven?

[Mika]

192. Castro should reject the Cuban parliament because you & W* say so?

If Cubans are so oppressed they would take care of matters readily. They have before - against bloodsoaked murderous US gov and US organized crime supported dictators (Batista is a great example of the Cuban people rejecting oppression). They really don't need W's help, as you lamented W's lack of action against Cuba in an earlier post (your post #113).

Like it or not Mr Castro is a celebrated Cuban revolutionary leader who helped Cuba achieve full sovereignty. Mr Castro led the charges against US proxy Batista - he didn't go AWOL on a coke snorting drinking binge. He put his life on the line for Cuban independance, and, like Americans, the vast majority of the Cuban people in Cuba have a great deal of respect and admiration for their national revolutionary war heroes.

Mr Castro is elected to his seat representing District #7 on the city of Santiago de Cuba - the hometown of his family for many generations. Btw, the Castro family farmland was the first to be nationalized.

Sorry to inform you, but, just because you and BushCrimeNazis Inc want Castro gone doesn't mean that the majority of Cuban people do.


Here's some of the reasons why..


Before the 1959 Cuban revolution

75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.

More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.

85% had no inside running water.

91% had no electricity.

There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.

More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.

Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.

The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.

45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.

25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.

1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).

27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.

Racial discrimination was widespread.

The public school system had deteriorated badly.

Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.

Police brutality and torture were common.


After the 1959 Cuban revolution..

http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/learn.htm

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.

“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.

Viva Cuba and the good and dedicated Cuban people of the island!

[Judi Lynn]

197. Some people think the citizens voted for Tony Blair, as well.

Heck, maybe even Queen Elizabeth, too!

In the meantime, I can understand their fear of someone so powerful he can keep 11,000,000 people trembling in their boots!



Even the CIA, which has been involved in so many acts of terrorism against Cuba in the 1970's, and God knows how close to the present, grudgingly admits there's no groundswell of fear or hatred toward the guy in Cuba:

CIA: Most Cubans loyal to homeland
Agency believes various ties to island bind the majority
By Robert Windrem
NBC NEWS PRODUCER

NEW YORK, April 12 <2000> — Cuban-American exile leaders — and many Republicans in Congress — believe that no Cuban, including Juan Miguel Gonzalez, could withstand the blandishments of a suburban American lifestyle, that he and all other Cubans would gladly trade their “miserable” lives in Cuba for the prosperity of the United States — if only given the chance. Witness House Minority Leader Dick Armey’s invitation to Gonzalez, offering him a tour of a local supermarket. But U.S. intelligence suggests otherwise.

THE CIA has long believed that while 1 million to 3 million Cubans would leave the island if they had the opportunity, the rest of the nation’s 11 million people would stay behind.
While an extraordinarily high number, there are still 8 million to 10 million Cubans happy to remain on the island.
(snip)

The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.
(snip)

There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.
(snip/...)

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

[sandnsea]

198. 1959 US statistics

Not alot different from what you post. I'm 47 and I know people my own age who didn't have indoor plumbing or electricity when they were kids. Perhaps you're too young to fully appreciate Johnson's Great Society Programs.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore.

http://www.worldaudit.org/countries/cu.htm

They got the rest of the world right and just totally figgin' blew it on Cuba???

[Mika]

202. The USA wasn't under dictatorship pre 1959. Cuba was and surpasses the US

.. in critical aspects of life.

The post revolutionary government of the Cuban people has raised Cuba's social infrastructure to above the USA's.

Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate.
Cuba has universal health care that includes a higher DR/citizen ratio than the USA.
Cuba has universal education that includes higher ed - all with a higher teacher/student ratio than the USA.

What the Cuban post revolutionary government did far surpassed many aspects of Prez Johnson's great society programs - and continue to surpass the US. Post 1959 Cuba came from farther behind also.


Yes, America has more plastic ware and consumer commercialism (with the collateral pollution and exploitation required). Doesn't make it any better than Cuba.

[sandnsea]

206. Dictatorship, free elections

I'm not talking about any of that and never have been. Don't change the subject because you don't want to debate an international agency that says Cuba is one of the least free and democratic countries in the world.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bronco69]

17. Give her a big ole "Welcome to America!" from me!

Congrats! That is great news! :-)

[Cuban_Liberal]

20. Thank you.

:)

[Trailrider1951]

18. That is such wonderful news!!

Give her our love. :grouphug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. Thank you.

:)

[MeDeMax]

23. good for her and congrats n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

25. Thank you.

:)

[lonestarnot]

24. Hate to disappoint you but you better look again. We are not free anymore

It's just a matter of time before we look just like Havana!

[Cuban_Liberal]

26. No sale.

We are so much more free than Cuba is, that it is like comparing jaywalking to genocide.

[lonestarnot]

27. Just you fucking wait...n/t

[Cuban_Liberal]

28. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whatever.

:eyes:

[lonestarnot]

29. Whateva!

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Payback Time]

48. Having lived in Miami 30 years

I feel a close connection to the very wonderful amd profound soul of the Cuban people (the food, music, people) and what they have suffered. I have very special Cuban friends who have told me in depth the experiences of they and their families and friends, as well as recommended books to read. Your people have such a STRONG spirit, born of suffering and close knit families. What the Cubans have achieved in the U.S., particularly in Miami, as immigrants coming to a new country giving up everything, including their status as judges, lawyers, doctors, is remarkable. I once worked as a government worker in the "welfare" department with a former judge - such a dignified gentlemen. I had friends whose parents were imprisoned. But, what a success story Cuban-Americans have created here. No matter what I have been told, however, I cannot really understand the suffering. I am Jewish and did not lose family in the holocaust to my knowledge because the ones that didn't emmigrant to the U.S. were already wiped out in the "pogroms" at the turn of the century. To me, a child growing up in 1950s American, I had no real thought of their suffering until later in life. We "Baby Boomers" (sad to say, basically the white ones) have been given a free ticket, so to speak, standing on the backs of those who have suffered and worked hard for us. We must protect and guard our real freedoms here from those who would manipulate us in the name of freedom. Anyway, thank you for your eloquent posting, welcome to your grandmother, may she enjoy this new and wonderful time of her life, may Cuban soon be Free!!!!

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. Thank you for your post.

:pals:

[Poppyseedman]

61. I think we have alot of catching up to do to look like Cuba

Havana, Cuba

Miami, Florida

[Bridget Burke]

100. No Hard Rock cafe in Cuba.

How sad.

[kevsand]

173. That photo of Havana really brings back the memories.

I was there for two weeks in the spring of 1989. I walked along that seawall, not too far from where the photo was taken.

Tony, you're right, they're not completely free. Everyone we met was very interested and excited to talk to us (partly to practice their English, and partly to ask about the US) but it was obvious that they are accustomed to being guarded in their speech. I think they have, in some instances, developed a sort of code to give some slight indication of their true feelings.

But what a spirit! I have never anywhere encountered people who were trying so hard to make their lives, and the lives of those around them, better in every way they can. In spite of the political restrictions, and the housing shortages, and the food rationing, and the bleak economic outlook they were facing at the time (and still are, in so many ways), I didn't meet anyone who had given up. They are more than just survivors; I wish I had their pure relish for life.

I think that spirit is as responsible as anything else for their remarkable progress in health care and education. My heart aches when I think about how U.S. policies have hindered their progress from the beginning. But everyone I talked to both here and there knows that it will never fully change until Fidel is gone. I have the greatest hope for their future.

And I also know that I will never forget the beauty of that countryside, or the beautiful hearts and minds of the people who befriended us on our visit.

I am so happy for your family! Enjoy the moment while you have it. Life is so short, and there is so much stupidity in our way. Go and give her your love, and please give her our joyful welcomes, as well!

[Judi Lynn]

193. Here's another part of the Malecon.

Eusebio Leal and the renovation of Old Havana


Dalia Acosta | www.IPSnews.net

For anyone, whether they are foreign nationals, people who live on the other side of Cuba, or natives and residents of the capital, taking a walk through Old Havana these days is like discovering a new city.

New museums, concert halls, small shops, cafés, pubs and hostels, bearing the cultural mark of the historic centre of the Cuban capital, come springing up day after day between the renovated walls of buildings that had until recently been lying in ruins.

Cropping up nearby are a centre for women with high-risk pregnancies, housing for the elderly, and a rehabilitation centre for children with degenerative diseases of the central nervous system.

According to Eusebio Leal, the head of Havana's Office of the City Historian, the programme for renovating the old city is based on the view that "social and community development should go hand in hand with the restoration project.
(snip/...)

http://havanajournal.com/culture_comments/2707_0_3_0_M53/



Here's an example of ongoing rennovation.

[Judi Lynn]

196. Cuba also looks different from Caracas.....

and possibly to Paris?

http://starship.python.net/crew/marduk/images/mini/Notre%20Dame,%20Paris,%20France.jpg

That's hilarious.

[Mika]

200. Miami harbor/Biscayne Bay water is shit brown. Havana harbor water - clear

Comparing Miami to Havana is like comparing a polished turd to a rose.

[Judi Lynn]

204. Ahhhhh! Miami! You know, I've read about sewage draining outta there!

I've heard they have alerts and people can't go into the water if they know what's good for them! Unbelievable!

Who's responsible for that catastrophy? Jorge Mas Canosa? Did he build some of the sewers?

[DemBones DemBones]

123. Why rain on the parade? Cuban Liberal is rejoicing at being able to

meet his grandmother. Post good wishes or nothing at all.

[sadiesworld]

125. If the post was intended to be solely about some personal good news...

why wasn't it posted in the Lounge? If you post something with political overtones in a political forum, aren't you asking for a bit of political discourse? :shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

161. When his nephew was killed in Iraq, I think he posted that in GD,

even though it was "personal" news. And it certainly had political overtones but I don't remember people throwing shit at him then. Today, there are several people doing so and it's ridiculous.

Of course, at the time his nephew was killed, this was a somewhat smaller community and people weren't at each other's throats constantly as they are now. The level of civility at DU has dropped sharply since the election and I notice many old time DUers no longer posting. A thread like this, with people pissing on another DUer's happiness makes me think it's time for me to give up on the idiots who've swarmed over this board. I've got to find out the maximum capacity for an Ignore list. . .

[sadiesworld]

164. Reread the original post.

If the OP were simply looking for a bit of celebration, the whole post could have been written differently. Sorry, from where I'm sitting, it looks like a pretty inflammatory post set in a context (a personal celebration) which chills any discussion about the opinions offered by the OP. And see how it works?

I see a bit of difference b/t the post about CL's nephew and this one. How about this analogy: A poster wants to share the good news that his/her spouse has just received a commendation for outstanding work in Fallujah. Should he/she expect some backlash? I don't think this is a fair analogy, but yours isn't either.

I thought the level of civility was far lower in the lead-up to the election (primary wars, anyone?), but hey, that's just me. :)

I'm finished here. :hi:

[lonestarnot]

31. Granny Ain't Free! She's in Big Havanna Now! Have a cigar

:smoke:

[Cuban_Liberal]

33. Granny's free.

The difference is as stark as daylight and dark.

Peace.
:)

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tsiyu]

35. Wonderful news

Enjoy the time with her.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. Thank you.

:)

[eallen]

37. Congratulations! I hope all other Cubans achieve freedom in our lifetime.

[Cuban_Liberal]

40. As do I.

Thank you.
:)

[Poppyseedman]

42. I used to work in Miami

I congratulate you on your wonderful news.

I had several friends who were in your same position. Waiting literally decades to see loved ones get out.

I hope that evil bastard Castro goes hard and in a lot of pain when he croaks

[Cuban_Liberal]

43. Thank you.

Though it may be a sin, I wish the same thing for Castro that you do.

:)

[CornField]

46. Our nation has been blessed with another strong, beautiful woman.

It is a good day for us all, but an excellent day for you and your family. Congratulations, Tony!

[Cuban_Liberal]

47. Thank you.

:)

[Maeve]

50. Glad to hear she made it safely

I know you've been looking forward to this day for soooo long!

One of my college Spanish teachers was from Cuba and he used to go to Spain every year to ship gifts back to his family.

[Cuban_Liberal]

54. Thank you.

:)

[Rowdyboy]

51. Awesome, simply awesome

Congratulations to the entire family on the reunion!

[Cuban_Liberal]

56. Thank you.

:)

[KitchenWitch]

53. I am glad she is finally able to come to Miami

Have a very nice visit with her!

[Cuban_Liberal]

59. I will.

Thank you.

:)

[ProfessorGAC]

55. Congrats To You & Your Family

The Professor

[Cuban_Liberal]

60. Thank you.

Thank you.

[Daphne08]

62. I'm very happy for your family.

I lived in Miami for three years and still have friends there.

[Cuban_Liberal]

64. Thank you.

:)

[myrna minx]

69. My heart jumped for joy when I read your news.

Neither time or distance can dampen ones love for a loved one, but what a glorious blessing to be able to put your arms around her.

[Cuban_Liberal]

71. For the first time in my life, too!

God is indeed good, to have granted me this wish, at last. Thank you!

:hug::)

[charlie]

74. Waitaminute

Your abuela has never met you? Holy cow. Maybe you guys should spread this reunion over a couple of weeks so your poor grandma doesn't wind up swooning every 5 minutes :)

[Cuban_Liberal]

75. Never seen her in the flesh before.

I've never been to Cuba, and she's never been permitted to leave Cuba, so this will be a first for all of us. She's never seen any of her grandchildren, except in pictures.

:)

[ronnykmarshall]

94. How cool!

But is she going to look at you, pinch your cheek and say "Oh mejo, you're so handsome. You must have so many girlfriends!" ??

[Cuban_Liberal]

98. I fully expect it.

My other grandma does t, and you know how grandmothers are...

;)

[Blue_Roses]

72. Oh, Tony

that's wonderful news!:D I know you all have a lot of catching up to do. Throw a big party and drink a margarita for me:toast: :party: :bounce:

Take care
:pals:

[Cuban_Liberal]

73. Thank you!

I'm sure I'll drink plenty!

:pals:

[KC21304]

77. What a wonderful day for all of you

and I hope your grandmother lives long enough to enjoy her wonderful family for years to come. :hug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

78. Thank you.

She's in pretty good health, so I hope/believe that she will live many more years, too.

:hug:

[bigtree]

79. Wow

Fantastic news. God is smiling on your family today. I will keep your family and also those who are still trapped in Cuba in my thoughts and in my prayers.

[Cuban_Liberal]

80. Thank you.

Yes, please remember those who are still there.

:)

[newyawker99]

81. This is great news Tony. I am happy for her

and your family.


:thumbsup:

[Cuban_Liberal]

84. Thank you!

:D

[diamond14]

82. now, grandma can retire comfortably in the USA....good hospitals,

working toilets, social security benefits....it's like winning the JACKPOT !!!!

(compliments of the Taxpayers of the United States of America)

[Cuban_Liberal]

85. LOL!

Thank you, America, for being here!

:loveya:

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

83. That is wonderful news Tony.

Your mother and your aunts and uncles must be overjoyed with the thought of seeing their mother for the first time in 40 years.

I hope you all have a joyful family reunion.


:hug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

86. They were laughing and crying, both at the same time!

'Overjoyed' would be a good word to decsribe my family today.

:D

[Stop_the_War]

88. I'm not going to participate in the Cuba-hating....

[arcos]

97. oh, come on... it's not Cuba hating...

I agree that sometimes Cuba and Castro are unfairly characterized as evil, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Although there are a lot of exaggerations in US reports about Cuba, it IS a FACT that human rights are not respected as they should in Cuba...

Cuban Liberal just talks about the experience of his family... there are lots of others that have similar negative experiences, and their are other who don't as well. I for one, am happy for him and his family, and don't see any Cuba-hating in his post.

[DemBones DemBones]

129. Exactly! And those with family in Cuba can't help but be

angry at some of what Castro has done. Most of us admit that Batista was no peach, either.

Not all Cuban immigrants become right wing Republicans consumed by hatred for Castro. I have a Cuban sister-in-law whose family left when she was 6, and know quite a few other immigrants, so I know something about what Cuban immigrants have endured, both in Cuba and in the US.

[Midlodemocrat]

89. That is so wonderful, Tony.

Have a wonderful and safe trip.

[JI7]

90. that's great

i admire her for staying strong and refusing to divorce her husband which kept her from coming her just for political reasons.

but it's nice that you and your family will finally be able to get together now.

[Wat_Tyler]

91. Where can I find an impartial overview of Cuba's human rights record?

I've heard both sides of the story on this - is there a good succinct site that shows the unvarnished truth?

[Cuban_Liberal]

102. Amnesty International.

http://www.amnesty.org

[Bridget Burke]

105. Also try to read accounts by....

Somebody who has actually BEEN there. Physically, you know....

[guajira]

203. I've Been there, and also Lived in Miami

You can't believe the difference between what it is like in Cuba and what the Miami gusanos say it is like!!

If the shit Miami propaganda were true, our government would want Americans to go there and see how "terrible" it is there. But our government wants to keep us out of Cuba so we can't see how we're being lied to!!

Cubans in Cuba think Miami Cubans are nuts to be so obsessed with Castro. Cuba is a friendly, beautiful island and the safest place I have ever visited!

Congratulations on your reunion Cuban Liberal. I hope you get to visit Cuba someday soon.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. She's "free" to do what?

Seriously, just what difference will there be in her life? What freedoms will she enjoy here that she didn't have in Cuba.

[ronnykmarshall]

96. Uhhhh,

Well for one she can be with her family. Kinda think that might be a biggie on the ol' list.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

119. Then can I assume that you'd welcome family members from Mexico?

I understand that there are a lot of Mexicans who would like their family members to join them in America? Haitians? Guatamalans? Hondurans? Ethiopians? Somalis?

[ronnykmarshall]

121. Uhhhhhh YEAH!

This is a land of immigrants isn't it?

[DemBones DemBones]

132. She's VISITING them, not immigrating! nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

138. "My grandmother will never return to Cuba..."

[DemBones DemBones]

141. Sorry, you're correct and I misread. But why the anger at HIM

when he's celebrating his grandmother coming here? How is it HIS fault if other people are denied immigration?

[Cuban_Liberal]

115. To say what she wants, to go where she wants, to do what she wants...

Basically, the things that people who have never lived in a totalitarian dictatorship take for granted.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

120. Are you as welcoming towards Haitians or Nicaraguans?

There are a lot of people in the world who aren't "free". Who can't go, say, or do what they want. Are you willing to welcome them all? Do you think that an 80+ year old Burmese or Congolese woman should get the same preferential treatment as your grandmother?

I do.

[DemBones DemBones]

134. Read his post. She's only VISITING here.

Aren't Haitians and Nicaraguans allowed to VISIT the US? Or Burmese or Congolese?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

137. "My grandmother will never return to Cuba...."

I did read the post. Did you?

[Cuban_Liberal]

140. I neither make nor enforce these laws.

If you find them odious, perhaps you should address your concerns to someone in a position to do something to change them; as for me, I am a simple law student who is enjoying a happy event, and I would ask you to simply share with me in this happiness, and leave it at that.

Peace.

:)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

148. I do find them odious. Do you?

You posted this on a political forum and included several references of a political nature regarding Cuba. Now you aver that it's only to share you happiness.

Sure, I'm happy about you seeing your grandmother. But, if it's just about your happiness why all the references to the political situation in Cuba?

Would you be just as happy to see a Haitian reunited with his grandmother who can't get into this country because Haitians don't get a preference so she arrived "illegally"?

[DemBones DemBones]

152. Why don't you give it a rest? This family had a son killed in Iraq

not long ago. He was the poster's young nephew, just 20, as I recall.

Most of us are not happy with a lot of US policies but sometimes it's good to celebrate a good thing happening to one of us.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

156. What has that to do with it?

You post on a political forum, you should expect replies.

[DemBones DemBones]

162. No, you wouldn't understand that would you?

Goodbye and take care, anger kills.

[Cuban_Liberal]

153. Since you asked, yes, I do find them odious.

I find our immigration laws to be insanely biased and unjust, especially against the poor and people of color, and I've said nothing in this or any other thread to indicate otherwise. That's why I'm so confused by the hostile tone you've taken toward me on this thread.

:shrug:

[Padraig18]

167. And not so much as an "Oh, OK", in reply.

Go figure.

:shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

146. Yes, I misread the post and I apologize for that. But why ask HIM

about others being denied immigration? Why would you want to make him feel guilty when he's rejoicing about his grandmother being freed???

Life is unfair, US immigration policies are unfair, but Tony is happy to finally meet the abuela he's never seen.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

151. He posted this on a political forum complete with political comments.

That's what I'm responding to. Cuban immigrants get preferential treatment because the rightwingers hate Cuba, not because they love "freedom". It's the hypocrisy that bothers me. We're supposed to cheer because a Cuban made it to the USA to live with her family but send Mexicans, Haitians, Congolese, etc, back to their country because they're not on Bush's hate list.

[DemBones DemBones]

154. See my reply to your other post just above. nt

[JI7]

168. did you even read his post ?

in his original post he condemned the policies of our own government towards Cuba.

we can recognize the problems in Cuba without supporting the policies towards it . it's not one or the other as right wingers would like us to believe.

[ronnykmarshall]

93. Give her a hug for me.

I really happy for you, Tony.

I remember a co-worker of mine in San Francisco fought for years to get her mother out of Iran. I'll never forget the day when she came running up to me (this was in 1988) with tears in her eyes and told me her mother just called for from GERMANY!! She was on her way to SF within a week.

I agree with you about how the US embargo does nothing but hurt the Cuban people. One of my best friend went to Cuba in 2003 on a educational trip with her college (she's an art teacher). This was before shrub put a stop to that.

She fell in love with Cuba and the people.

I hope one day we can all visit there. Here's a link to her site. If you click on the "The Faneur" tab, you can see her pictures from Cuba.

Welcome to the US Grandma!

http://www.vinciart.com/

[Cuban_Liberal]

104. Thank you, Ronny!

The Cuban people are loving and warm, and known for their hospitality and good humor. Great pics!

:)

[AlCzervik]

95. Wow, i am so happy for all of you!!!!

Give your Nana a huge hug from us.

[Cuban_Liberal]

108. I will.

Thank you!

:)

[VOX]

99. This is terrific news, CL!!!

I'm so glad that your family can see your grandmother again -- or even get to know her, at long last.

The heart of America is still big, as is its promise of fredom, in spite of the small-minded zealots currently in power.

Thanks for being such a loving person, Tony. :hug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

109. Thank you!

We shall overcome, some day.

:hug:

[kittenpants]

101. damn, I thought this thread was about Martha...

just kidding--very happy for you!

[Cuban_Liberal]

110. Hehe

Thanks!

:)

[babylonsister]

103. I'm so happy for you and your family!

Your grandma will feel right at home with all the love she's about to get from you and yours! A great day, indeed! :hug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

111. Thank you!

There's a lot of hugging and kissing to catch up on, so we intend to be diligent!

:hug:

[bunkerbuster1]

106. Fantastic. Sounds like one scrappy ol’ bird.

Tell her to keep on fightin' the power, wherever she may be.

[Cuban_Liberal]

112. She's as tough as a pine knot, and twice as scrappy.

Thank you!

:)

[FreedomAngel82]

107. Wonderful!

That is great news!!! So your grandmother is free from Cuba? Of course Bushie isn't doing anything about them eh? :eyes:

[Cuban_Liberal]

113. Mr. Bush is *liberating* people 10000 mies away.

Sadly, the ones just 90 miles away from this country have no oil, so they get to wait, it seems... Go figure.

:shrug:

[Mika]

176. I see. So you think Bush should "liberate" Cuba like Iraq too

Your position is loud and clear.

No oil, so, unfortunately (to you, it appears), they will have to wait for their US invasion/"liberation". :puke:

[lumpy]

201. " We shall overcome someday"

The US has not helped the Cuban people with the rough sanctions imposed on that country, inspite of Castro calling for more friendly relations with the US. US leadership doesn't give a rap about the people in Cuba. I'm sure GWB would love to invade tomorrow if it weren't for world opinion and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Castro haters would jump at the oportunity to 'liberate' Cuba. Those old buildings need to be taken down anyway. So a few innocent people might be killed, it would be worth it for gaining 'democracy'. Besides the US could help develope new-found oil in Cuba. Puke is right.

[Mika]

208. Wishing W would attack Cuba IS hating Cubans in Cuba, imo

Gawd.. just who would wish that the US would do the "liberation" thing it does on the good and decent people in Cuba. That's like wishing hell -on-earth for them. WTF have they ever done to hurt anyone? Just like the citizens in Iraq didn't deserve to be embargoed, attacked and brutalized - neither do Cubans in Cuba.

[guajira]

207. Cuba Does Have Oil

I saw that myself, going from Havana to Varadero. Right on the main highway.

Just goes to show how little Americans really know about Cuba!!

[DemBones DemBones]

136. Bush** may well make war on Cuba.

He's made some noises about Castro. . . But today we rejoice for THIS family!

[cally]

114. I'm happy for all your family

and if she cooks, let us know what she made!

In my more idealistic moments, I dream of a world without governments. It won't happen in my lifetime but countries are insane. Enjoy your family reunion.

[Cuban_Liberal]

116. Thank you.

My mother says grandma cooks very well, so I'll try to keep track of anything she makes and tell you guys about it.

:)

[Blue Diadem]

117. I'm so happy for you and your family!

I can only begin to imagine the joy your Grandmother will feel upon seeing her family.

Keep us filled in. I can't wait to hear more.

[Cuban_Liberal]

142. Thank you.

:)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

118. Should we welcome all immigrants yearning to be free?

Those from Congo? Columbia? Haiti? Liberia? Somalia? Ethiopia? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia? Palestine? Burma? China? Egypt? Mexico?
And, everywhere else that people aren't "free"?

How about those nations that have repressive laws against women? Or, minorities? Indonesia? Sri Lanka?

I'm all for open borders and glad that the lady is reunited with her family.

But, I smell a lot of hypocrisy here when Cuba is singled out as a country denying it's citizens freedom and only it's citizens deserve to be welcomed.

[Bridget Burke]

127. I'm sure you know the answer.

Good wishes to everybody's family & all.

But I've heard different opinions about Cuba from people who've actually been there. Immigrants often feel guilty about leaving the old country--especially when they've left family behind. So they must demonize the place rather than admit they just thought they could get a better deal elsewhere.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

128. Well, Cuba is on Bush's enemies list. The rest are our "friends".

I'm the child of an immigrant, from England. What you say is quite true about trashing the old country.

[DemBones DemBones]

160. That IS an important point to remember -- that some immigrants

trash the country they left while others have fond memories, just as some people love living in a certain town, while others hate it.

It reminds me of the story of two couples who stopped, separately, to talk to an old man on the street. Both couples were thinking of moving to his town and both asked him what the people in the town were like. He asked each couple the same question: "What are the people like where you live now?"

The first couple said, "Oh, they're wonderful people. We will really miss them and hate to move, but we have other reasons for wanting to move here."

The second couple said, "Oh, they're the worst bunch of people you can imagine! We can't wait to leave."

The old man gave the same answer to each couple, "I imagine that you'll find the people in this town to be very much like the people where you live now."

[Judi Lynn]

189. It was particularly filthy seeing Bush surround Haiti with U.S. ships

to catch Haitians trying to escape the bloodbath when the former killers from the Duvalier regimes were sent back in to get rid of Aristide.

Those people, Aristide supporters, were DESPERATE to leave before being murdered, and _Bush made sure they didn't befoul our shores by nipping it in the bud, and having his armada grab them and escort them right back to the shore. Hideous. Absolute contempt for life among those politically unpopular with a Republican pResident.

[UrbScotty]

122. THANKS BE TO GOD!

:bounce:

[Cuban_Liberal]

143. Indeed!

:D

[underpants]

130. Outstanding

:grouphug:

[Cuban_Liberal]

144. Isn't it?

:D

[Withywindle]

131. Congratulations to her and you and your whole family!

You have so much catching up to do! Sounds like it's going to be wonderful! :party:

[Cuban_Liberal]

145. Thank you!

:D

[Misunderestimator]

135. Wow! That is Wonderful News!!

:toast:

[Cuban_Liberal]

147. Thank you.

:toast:

[medeak]

149. beautiful heartwarming post

thank you.

[Cuban_Liberal]

150. Thank you.

:)

[jonnyblitz]

155. WOW! I can't imagine how you must feel! (I just read this!)

I am so happy for you Tony, particularly after what you have been through!! :hug: :hi:

[Cuban_Liberal]

157. Thank you!

I feel like a little kid on Christmas Eve, because just shortly after midnight, I get my present--- seeing my abuela for the first time.

:D

[sandnsea]

159. I am so happy for all of you

I am going to be a grandmother for the first time in June. I can't imagine having to make the choices your family has had to make. I just wish you many years of joy and love and laughter.

[Cuban_Liberal]

165. Congratulations!

Thank you so much.

:hug:

[laylah]

163. Congratulations to your

Grandmother and family!

Jenn

[Cuban_Liberal]

166. Thank you.

:)

[medeak]

171. Please check in tomorrow and tell us about the reunion!

Please!

[rockymountaindem]

172. I'm very happy for you.

Sometimes good things just happen. Good for you all, and I hope you have many happy years together.

[AwakeAtLast]

174. So happy for you, CL!

How wonderful for your family! Hope you all have a great time!

:hi:

[Wapsie B]

180. Congratulations!

Very happy for you and your family.

[liberalitch]

185. welcome to America...

now let's all work to change cuba

[Mika]

186. No thanks. Leave Cuba to Cubans

The Cuban people are quite capable of changing their system of governance by themselves. They have proven that time and again over history.

It is pure Bush doctrine to insert the US into foreign domestic issues, especially when they are not wanted.


Leave Cuba alone.

Clean up your own back yard before insisting that your neighbors do so.

[Judi Lynn]

191. They would have been able to change far more quickly

without the embargo and over 44 years of terrorism launched against the island from the Cuban-American extremists in this country. It has been continual, and vicious.

Had they been allowed to pay ordinary prices, rather than obtaining their food, like rice from places as far away as Viet Nam, paying many times the prices they are paying as they buy it now from Arkansas, and Texas, (if I am correct in believing there is finally a modest trade with those states), if they had been able to acquire important medical equipment for their hospitals which was forbidden, even through other countries, as certain parts of the machines were made in the U.S. and banned by the Helms-Burton Act, etc., if they had not had to overcome terrorism, and destruction of crops and livestock visited upon them by Cuban "exile" terrorists, and it's on record, as well as biological warfare, also ADMITTED IN COURT during a trial by a Cuban "exile" terrorist, they would have had more time to attend to cosmetic things like the repair of the old buildings in Havana much earlier, rather than having to put that off until the more urgent matters were treated FIRST, like educating the poor, and getting them healthy and housed properly.

I've been told by other Cuba visitors, like you, Mika, about conversations with Cubans who read books, magazines, papers from the U.S., and are completely informed. That old propaganda sounds so pathetic when it's trotted out again, doesn't it? You know someone in Miami, a poster here, who also has installed a satellite dish in a private home there. They DEFINITELY are informed. (Not to mention the fact a lot of homes can pick up Miami tv stations, and Miami radio stations. Anyone can test this, by driving away from his/her city while listening to a favorite radio station. The signal actually TRAVELS! Some people don't seem to understand that. They think the world ends at the south end of Florida, and Cuba is floating in a communist void, surrounded by sharks.) Please!

I just saw this thread a short time ago. Very interesting posts here, as always.



http://www.ramonorga.com/cuba/2004/imagepages/image90.html

http://extras.journalnow.com/cuba/pages/transport.htm

http://extras.journalnow.com/cuba/pages/vendor.htm

http://extras.journalnow.com/cuba/pages/fan.htm

[Mika]

195. Great post, Judi Lynn! Photos too!!!

:hi:

I've watched Miami and Fla Keys TV in Cuba - my Cuban friends really got a kick watching Ric Sanchez, formerly of Miami Ch 7, squatting over a map of Cuba whenever he was covering some wingnut fabrication on Cuba. Mainly though, when watching foreign TV, they watch the Spanish language soaps.

Usually, at the local Cuban CDR office, many many many foreign newspapers are available - usually for free. Cubans in Cuba most assuredly know more global news than do Americans.

And, yes, radio signals do travel. :wow: Short wave radios are popular too.

[Judi Lynn]

199. So YOU'VE seen tv from Cuban homes, too.... That would be excellent.

There's a lot to laugh about with Ric Sanchez. Did you know he's at CNN now? They let him go at MSNBC.

I had heard the Miami station had a large map ON THE FLOOR for some reason, and he used to stagger around on it, pointing out countries. I just can't grasp what that was all about. It sounds so stupid!

So the CDR offices are in each neighborhood, then? I heard from someone who posts here that she met a woman in Cuba who follows the Miami Herald so closely that she is aware of who the columnists are there by name, even.

No one wants to recognize WE are the ones who've been kept in the dark. Some people never learn that,but quite a few do.

[deadparrot]

194. Congratualtions to you and your grandmother!!

Hoping for the best for you and your family--that's great news!

[lumpy]

205. Free at last, free at last thank God.....

Uh, yeah.