Prison: For rehabilitation or a deterrent and punishment?

[Bluzmann57]

Here in a small town in eastern Iowa, a 17 year old kid pulled a gun on a teller and robbed a bank last August. He said he needed money for the Fair which was going on at the time. He was caught red handed, originally charged with first degree robbery, which is a 25 year sentence, and plea bargained down to first degree theft, which carries a much lighter sentence of 10 years. The other day, a judge took back the ten year sentence and instead gave him probation. He will be accepted in the Residential Corrections Facility which normally does not take armed robbers, and will be able to return to his job at a local supermarket chain, as well as live with his parents.
A lot of people around here are upset about this judge's decision, in that the kid appears to be getting off easy. He has never been in trouble with the law, and comes from a "good" family. Some say that if he were an inner city black kid, he would have gotten the full 25 years and no plea bargain, as well as no probation. The aforementioned RCP has done some good work in helping young people who made mistakes become productive members of society, but as mentioned, they normally don't take violent criminals.
My feeling is that, while I have never met the kid, he probably should get some help, as he will have a place to live and a job. A condition of his probation should be that he is never allowed to own firearms again, since he is a convicted felon. As far as the charges of racism which have been leveled, I tend to agree and will be watching very carefully to see whether the next robbery by a minority around here is treated the same as this kid was. So finally, after all this rambling, I ask DU readers, should prison be used for rehabilitating criminals, or a deterrent to future criminals? Or both? I suppose it depends on the crime; first degree murderers should never get out and so rehab would be pointless. But in the case of this kid, he should get rehab and hopefully, he will never pull something that stupid again, as he is now a convicted felon and should be for the rest of his life. For more info go to www.qctimes.com and type in Benjamin Paul in the search archives section.

[datasuspect]

1. prison ONLY creates better criminals

sucks in one way that the kid is well-connected. but on the other hand, maybe he can get some help and redeem himself.

if it was a poor kid (of any color) they would have thrown the book at him.

[Silverhair]

2. Deter & punish, now. Was once rehab.

At one time prisons were called penitentiaries, derived from the word "penance" and the idea was that they would reform the inmates.

Now it is all screwed up.

First we need to decriminalize a lot of things that are crimes now. In fact, the crimes that are simply vices, (Most drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc.) should be completely legal. That will greatly reduce the number of prisoners.

Then violent crimes should be in a separate category from the non violent crimes.

Lock up the violent ones and keep them away from society until the testosterone levels come down and they aren't so violent.

Non violent crimes should have some sort of productive sentences that would still be a punishment and so would be deter, but would still make use of the abilities of the offender.

[Skidmore]

14. I recently read through the records of someone incarcerated

in the late 1800s for grand larceny when he embezzled monies from the bank he worked for (gamling and whiskey were identified as the reason for his downfall). He was originally sentenced to 7 years and was released--pardoned by the governor of the state--after serving 5 years. His parole reports, appeals, and reviews are an interesting read. In the end the very people (investors of the bank and his employer) supported his release and were satisfied that he had been rehabilitated and that nothing was to be gained for society by his further incarceration. They wrote letters and signed petitions stating that they felt he'd learned his lesson and that his skills could be better put to use in service of his community. He went on to be a successful hotel owner. Now people are held for long period of times without clemency.

[pnutchuck]

3. If the kid was from a "good" family, what the hell was he doing pulling

a gun in the first place? I'm a big fan of Angela Davis and her views on the prison industrial complex. I think that prisons only serve to turn humans into animals in a zoo and that, for the most part, society and the government tend to create a criminal culture. However, I think the question regarding this kids break from his otherwise "normal" life is a good one. And you are right to ask if the outcome would have been different if the malanin had been 2 degrees darker.

[thom1102]

4. Why can't it function as both?

You are taken away from your life and what you know and forced to live in a regimented lifestyle; that to me sounds like a punishment and a deterrent. But as part of your incarceration you are required to undergo counseling, learn a trade, get an education; that sounds rehabilitative to me.

[sacxtra]

7. Exactly, Rehab for Some, LOcKuP for others n/t

[Nevilledog]

5. A Short-sighted Society

This is an issue near and dear to my heart. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I have been a criminal defense attorney for 15 years... most of that in a small Arizona town.

We, as a Society, are not interested in rehabilitation. We are interested in retribution. We want punishment, and we want it now. Forget about the fact that when you put a young or mentally ill person in prison without rehabilitation or treatment you are just delaying or creating further problems.

There are very few truly Evil people out there. Those that are need to be taken out of society. Most of the people I've dealt with for the last 15 years are irresponsible, addicts, or just plain stupid. I've always had the opinion that anybody, given the right set of circumstances, could find themselves on the wrong side of the law and at the mercy of the unfeeling State.

I'm gonna quick get off my soap box because I could discuss this forever. I'm always saddened about the general public's view of those accused of crimes and their lawyers. Nobody cares about the system until it affects them or a loved one and then they're shocked at the injustices they see.

I get called a bleeding heart liberal all the time. You know what my response to that is? Come judgment day, I'll take my chances of getting into heaven over those more outspokenly pious because "It's not how you treat your friends and colleagues.. it's how you treat those who are less fortunate."

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Great post, Nevilledog

I wholeheartedly concur that it benefits society to rehabilitate those who commit crimes, and now more than ever, many of which are victimless. There is a reason for the saturation coverage of trials, manhunts and searches for kidnapped kids, to whip the public into a fearful and punitive frenzy.

Then you also have to take into account the private prison industry which can only make profits when the beds are full. In the entire world we're number one in imprisoning our citizens and I don't see that it has the beneficial effect of reducing crime rates, it's just the opposite in fact.


Welcome to DU :toast:

[Nevilledog]

11. Thanks!

I hear ya on the prison industry. Arizona has one of the highest per capita prison populations in the nation. We've got prisons all over the place.

I agree with you that our system is not accomplishing anything positive. We are taking people with usually identifiable problems, be they addictions, lack of education, or mental health issues, and adding to their burdens. You think it's hard to get a job without an education? Try it without an education AND a criminal record.

[Mandate My Ass]

12. drug courts prove that treatment is cheaper and more effective

than prison sentences for rehabilitation of non-violent drug users. It's hardly surprising that this administration, and the Bushes in particular, oppose funding for these programs. Recidivism rates are dramatically lower than those who did time. Enabling someone to be a participating member of society makes it a win-win situation for everybody.

The war on drugs is nothig more than the war on US citizens.

[Nevilledog]

15. Amen!

We have a relatively new "Drug Court" program up here that has been wildly successful. People fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to participate in this program are given individualized programs and supervision. They are required, as a group, to meet with the Drug Court judge every two weeks where their successes are pointed out to all and if there are failures they receive instant consequences (usually something like 48 hours in jail or further restrictions). In monitoring this program I have come to a simple conclusion for its success..... it all comes down to improving the self-esteem of the people participating. Drug addiction is a vicious cycle - you use to feel better, after you use you feel bad, you use to feel better, and that's true whether you're self-medicating a mental health situation, or just a self-hate situation. Once these people realize they can feel good about their successes, drugs don't need to be their crutch. A simplified analysis, but true nonetheless.

Here's the caveat though.... you usually only get the opportunity to participate in Drug Court if the PROSECUTOR wants to give you that chance AND if you have drug charges. This ignores that a great majority of non-drug offense are DRUG related: you stole something to buy drugs, you got into a fight because you were high, etc. I have had some success convincing judges to bypass the prosecution and order Drug Court, but it's not common and it's unfortunate because more people, and our community, would benefit from an expansion of the program.

[Bluzmann57]

9. Thank you for your insight

And if you are a "bleeding heart liberal", then more power to you. As I stated, I think maybe the kid has learned his lesson and will never do it again. A friend of mine has three sons and two of them are currently doing time, one in Iowa and one in Illinois. I blame parenting somewhat because this guy has spent a great deal of his life stoned and drunk, but I do not blame him entirely. These guys know right from wrong and should know better than to steal and fight, which is what they are in prison for. I also must confess that I have wanted to see people "get theirs" in criminal cases. In fact, I was on a jury two years ago in which a man was accused of first degree murder and we convicted him based on overwhelming evidence the prosecution had against him. The conviction was recently overturned because the police screwed up on his questioning, and it upsets me that this man will soon be set free. The county attorney has not yet decided whether he will re-try the case. I just hope that he got rehabilitated while in prison, because this crime he and his brother commited was brutal and 1- I would hate to see anyone else die because of this guy and 2- I believe he needs to be locked up for life. So does that make me a bad guy? I don't think so, but if it does, so be it.
on edit- welcome to DU. And thank you again for your insight

[Nevilledog]

13. I wish I could be on a jury someday.....

but what are the chances a defense attorney will ever get that chance? Haha! Seriously though, I think we are putting our juries in a very difficult position. We are asking them to pass judgment but we don't let them know everything that's going on.

As an example: In Arizona the prosecutors have much more power than judges do in deciding a person's punishment. They have the sole discretion to file what we call "enhancements" which have the effect of dictating the punishment for an offense. Examples of enhancements are: prior record, release status (i.e. on probation, parole, felony release), age of the alleged victim, use of a dangerous weapon or instrument. These enhancements can DRAMATICALLY increase a sentence. Therefore, take a defendant who is charged with committing a non-residential burglary (broke into a warehouse and took some beer - true story). Within the last 10 years this same defendant had been convicted of trespassing and criminal damage (both the lowest level of felony in Arizona). If this person took a plea agreement to the non-residential burglary they would have the opportunity of probation or if sent to prison would be looking at a presumptive sentence of 2.5 years. However, if this person was convicted at trial, with the prior criminal record, their presumptive sentence would be 10 years with no chance of probation. The judge would have no authority to deviate from the sentencing guidelines.

How many juries would feel that a 10 year sentence for stealing some beer would be justice? Doesn't matter to the system because I would be prohibited from telling the jury what the punishment would be if they voted to convict.

What I am in-artfully trying to state here is that until and unless we allow our juries to know exactly what's at stake we'll often fall short of justice.

. . . .

Within the last year there was a show on CBS (I believe) called "In the Jury Room" which chronicled trials and jury deliberations by having cameras in the jury room. I would watch and quite frankly be aghast at how the juries would discuss and come to their decisions. Very frightening.


But I digress......and thanks for the welcome!

[skygazer]

6. I think it needs to function as both

But more importantly, I think we need to look beyond the prison system in order to reduce crime. Much, if not most, of crime is caused by poverty and hopelessness. Yet the first programs to be cut under the budget axe tend to be those that benefit the poor and have the potential for preventing crime in the first place - programs like after school programs, child care programs, educational and vocational programs, etc.

We continue to fund prisons but do very little to break the cycles that cause so many people to end up in them.

This particular kid sounds like a thoughtless young kid who has never really had to deal with the consequences of his actions. I don't think locking him up and throwing away the key should be the answer but there has to be some sort of reckoning so that he feels the price paid is good reason to avoid crime in the future. I don't know if the punishment meted out will do that - he may look at it as beating the system.

[BiggJawn]

10. Warehousing.

You go in for making a mistake, and after the psychos get done stretching your ass out, then you learn a "trade". There's damn little "rehabilitation" or "corrections" in our Corrections Industry

Heard on National Putsch Radio yesterday how most prisons are actually run by the convict gangs inside, NOT the Whacking-Hut people.

[Name removed]

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