Organized Religion is a threat to Democracy.

[KlatooBNikto]

Democracy requires a citizenry that questions authority, is skeptical of the pronouncements of the powerful windbags and generally needs citizens who preserve their independence of thought and action. All of these are antithetical to organized religions (not an individual personal faith).This is why it is possible for dictatorships or theocracies to flourish where organized religion becomes a dominant force. Whether it is Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Israel or even the 50% of the US that supports Bush, the results are the same.Mindless "following the Leader" mentality, hatred of people following a different faith and I can do no wrong because I am forgiven by my God all have their own corrosive effects.

[mopaul]

1. sometimes your religion makes you kill people

and no one wants to stamp out religion because everybody was born into one. my religion hates your religion, therefore, we must kill.
irish catholics versus irish protestants, sunnis versus shiites, jews versus muslims, all through bloody human history.

if i had to pick a religion to be born or converted into, it'd be one of the more non violent ones.

[KlatooBNikto]

3. You know I would actually prefer to be born an atheist.I say this not

facetiously but with some seriousness.Fifteen years ago, I was in China and went to Manchuria where I met some very fine people whose graciousness and courtesy toward a foreigner like me totally surprised me. Later, during a casual conversation with another American in Beijing I learned that several generations of people in Manchuria have taken to heart Mao's lesson to abandon religion.I wondered whether that accounts for the lack of aggressiveness.

[H2O Man]

2. Religion,

be it organized or disorganized, can be a threat to dictatorships and other forms of non-democratic governments. It is easy to take a shot at the "bad potential" of organized religion; however, doing so ignores and insults the works of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Gandhi, among hundreds of thousands of others.

[KlatooBNikto]

5. That tells me that it may not be religion per se, but the ends to which

it is put that may be the core of the problem. When Pat Robertson and Falwell exhort their sheep to hate gays, religion is being put at the service of bigotry. When Dr.King, Gandhi and Mandela were using religion to sustain the faith of their followers against tyranny, it was serving a nobler end.

[Swamp Rat]

6. Good point

Sometimes I have to bite my tongue when it comes to religion because I don't want to offend some of my friends here... on the other hand, I think organised religion is a bane to humankind.

King, Gandhi, Mandela, Tutu et al are all OK in my book. ;)

[H2O Man]

7. There is an old,

likely over-used saying that you can use electricity to light the darkness, or to kill an innocent man in an electric chair. Religious energy is no different than electricity.

If people continue to have divisive discussions on religion, in all of its manifest forms, we will only further separate different groups that should be working towards the same goals.

Perhaps it is important that the religious among us be able to respect the non-religious folks' very real concerns about the unhealthy and undemocratic role that organized religion is playing today in the United States. This concern is well-grounded: our country, among others, has used the electricity of religion in the most destructive manner over the centuries.

At the same time, the non-religious people among us would do well to recognize that religion has been organized in very positive ways each and every day of those same centuries. There are individuals who stick out, like King; there are also millions of people who remain unknown to the general public, but who dedicate much of the electric energy that is their being, humbly doing the day-to-day works that are described in the Isaiah and in the Sermon on the Mount.

When and only when these two groups have mutual respect, and take the responsibility to NOT say (or write) ignorant, foolish, insulting, and hateful things -- and we have witnessed plenty of these cheap shots on DU -- then we will be able to take the power away from those "religious" folks who abuse that energy, our democracy, and indeed human rights around the globe.

[Swamp Rat]

8. Amen. n/t

:)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. but not all organized religion

follows the model you describe. There are protestant denominations, such a Unitarian/Universalist and Unity, that stress the individual nature of a person's relationship to God without demanding that said individual toe a certain ideological line. Even more mainline Protestant churches, such as the Methodist Church, encourage independent thought. That was the church in which I was raised, and the congregation where I took my catechism was one that was very liberal and tolerant, allowing different interpretations of the nature of Jesus and His message within the congregation. I am sure if you talk with Jews, they can tell you of certain sects and congregations that don't demand following a leader and adhering to a strict religious line. And heaven knows that Sufis are individuals, are encouraged to be individuals, and don't always follow the suggestion of their leaders (I've known some, in fact, who have told our leaders off, and remain in the Order in good standing).

That being said, sure, there are plenty of "churches" that fall into the model you describe. And many other groups, such as "White Citizen's Councils", the Klan, and other hate groups as well. There are plenty of people deluded by fear and lack of self-esteem to the point where they rely on demagogies to do their thinking for them. Some are in churches, some are not; but the point is that not all organized religion falls into this category.

[mwb970]

9. Fundamentalism is the problem - "theirs" AND "ours". (n/t)