America - Greatest Country in the World?

[bixente]

One thing I am mystified about quite often is the claim that America is the "best" country in the world. But how can a country that has so many problems claim to be the greatest?

Something I hear quite often, from Republicans, is that the US has the most freedom out of any country. But there are other countries where you are free to do things that are scorned in America, like Canada and the Netherlands.

Also, the so-called greatest country is doing more damage to the world than any other. For one, you are creating more terrorists than eliminating them, and then there is the fact that the US is the world's greatest polluter.

And then there is the people. I don't mean to criticize the people HERE, but specifically the people that are not aware of Bush's evil deeds. In my country, I believe 70+ percent of us would of voted for Kerry - and this would be the case in other countries too. But America is one of the few countries in the world where Bush would've won. I believe if America had a better education system, this would help have a more...intelligent populace, shall we say?

Anyway, do you people here believe America is the greatest country in the world?

[mwb970]

1. It was, it could be, but it's not right now... n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

2. No. And the BFEE is ensuring that we won't have anything to be proud of

for decades.

[spanone]

3. bush* has lowered the rent considerably.

[Deja Q]

4. Examples of 'freedom':

* No nude beaches
* Controlled media
* Tame programming
* tame commercials (the Europeans have it licked for saucy/racy adverts)
* programs that appeal only to the LCD in order to get the most $; anything that's liked by a niche group can't generate enough profit so it's axed. (in other words, mainstream tv programming is beneath me and most DUers to some level!)
* no ability to handle controversy ('conformity is the only freedom')
* 45 million have freedom from health care
* 200 million have freedom from GOOD health care (we're #37 on the int'l list...)

The next 2 are arguable:

* freedom from uncorrupted politicians
* freedom from uncorrupt corporations

I could say more if I devoted more time to be thorough.

[mr blur]

19. So, Bush is over here in Europe,

telling us how we've got to help spread freedom and democracy to the Middle East (although I guess he doesn't mean Suadi Arabia). Then he tells the Russians where they're going wrong and points out the difference between their way and the American Way. The first thing, he says, that you have to understand about Americans is that they have "a free press". I mean, you just have to laugh...

[marmar]

5. The ideal of America is a great one ...

What's in practice right now falls way short. Honestly, Canada to me seems as close to ideal as any country right now.

[Bill McBlueState]

6. it depends

When you look at the average person's standard of living and personal freedoms, the US is one among the many established democracies, which as a group I would say are the "best" countries in the world. Among those would be Canada, Japan, most of what Rummy calls "Old Europe" and so on. But it never makes sense to talk about the BEST country in the world, since any one country tends to have a lot in common with others.

When you look at the leadership of the US and certain trends over the past decade or two, this country is rather frighteningly being left behind as most of Europe and Canada advance to the next level, i.e. guaranteeing a minimum standard of living for everyone.

[Webster Green]

7. We have high ideals, but don't even begin to live up to them....

Its been quite some time since we did, if ever! We began wiping out the previous inhabitants upon our arrival.

Talk is cheap!

[DireStrike]

8. "Greatest" usually means "could beat other countries in a 1 vs. 1 war"

And that's still true today, of the U.S. Few countries could stand up against us right now. That lets the folk in the countryside feel safe and free, as long as they don't read any real news.

Give it a few decades under Republican rule, and all they'll have left is mumbled proclamations about how we "saved" everybody in WW2. We're on the way down no matter what happens... we just have to make sure it goes as smoothly as possible.

[maxsolomon]

9. if i say no, then i hate america

that may answer your question.

i do not believe a majority of americans could define "nationalism".

[cornermouse]

10. We used to be.

The education system is not the real problem.

I think one of the main problems is children with two working parents due to financial pressures (not the parent's fault). Often no parent at home when they walk in the door to supervise and settle them down in chores or homework. Parents who are often too tired and stressed to give the kids the time and attention that they really do need.

[Dangerman]

11. I think not.

Since March 19, 2003, I was fed up with this being the greatest country in the world.

[michael_1166]

12. Why

does a country have to be "great"? It's always subjective to call something "great", whether it's apple pie or a country.

And I think it is dangerous to call a country that way, because it gives evil people, like the current US government, the propaganda tools to turn the language of the people against the people, because - of course ! - it sounds honorable to die for something "great".

It's the same with flags... While it might be ok to use a flag in a positive context, flags also get used for "uniting" people to do something evil - and this works because of conditioning people's minds first by using flags in positive contexts everyone finds agreeable.

Michael (not from the U.S.)

[FreedomAngel82]

13. If you asked me this a few years ago

I would've said "yes" in a heartbeat. Not now. Not with how people are being. Not by denying people civil rights for marriage. Not denying people the right to vote. Not by stealing elections. Not by lying about war. Not by using and abusing the military. Not by brainwashing. There's just too much now going on that makes us not the best country. Sure, there's a lot that I'm grateful for being here. I think if any country should claim the greatest country award it's Canada.

[JanMichael]

14. Not according to several Human Development Indicators.

As compiled in the Human Development Report (It's a pdf).

Especially things like the GINI Index.

[prairierose]

15. I don't understand the best/greatest thing anyway...

why does nay thing/country have to be "the best/greatest? We used to be pretty good but I think we are on the way down hill. Of course, since most murikans get their "news" from corporate sources, they don't have the foggiest idea of what is going on and the rise of xenophobia and jingoism makes me very sad and frightened.

[3lefts]

16. Without a doubt - Yes n/t

[JanMichael]

21. What criteria? Infant Mortality? Literacy?

On some benchmarks the US is #1 but on many others it isn't.

So by what indicator of Human Development do you base this claim on?

[3lefts]

25. By the number of people that want to come here. n/t

[cire4]

28. This isn't 1890....people aren't travelling across oceans to get here

I think you are kidding yourself if you think there are alot of people who dream of coming to America. Maybe in the 1800s when many of the European countries were poor, but not anymore.

The only people who come to the United States are immigrants from Mexico/Central America who are looking for a job. They only go to to the US as a last resort. They can't afford a plane ticket anywhere else, so they have to travel by land and America just happens to one of the easiest developed countries to get to via land.

But put Sweden, Australia, or Germany next to Mexico and you'll see the illegal immigration problem in America disappear.

[JanMichael]

36. Interesting, I point out some qualitative indicators, you point...

...out what can only be considered a knee jerk reply.

Thanks just being so contemplative.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

40. What about the number of immigrants to Europe?

Please elaborate. We're anxious to hear your theory, and please back it up with some links. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[gollygee]

63. You should see how many people want to go to Australia

America is *a* great country, but there are a number of them.

[cire4]

26. Care to elaborate???

[Stop_the_War]

17. America is one of the worst countries in the world.

[UdoKier]

18. Maybe in around 1963 we were at our peak and one of the freest countries.

But even then we had red-baiting, poverty, a cold war, all manner of problems - it's never been anywhere near a utopia. Problem is the millions of us who were raised in the middle-class suburban bubble, from which it LOOKED damn near like a utopia. Millions are still clinging to the fantasy, insulating their own bubble more and more, while refusing to take action to deal with the mounting realities of war, deficits, poverty and a decimated manufacturing base.

[misanthrope]

22. In '63 it was better?...

...Maybe if you were white.

[UdoKier]

29. Yes. It was better for the white majority.

Was the goal of the civil rights movement to impoverish more white people? I hope not.

There was a prosperous working class in the 60s. Not anymore.

[JanMichael]

35. I don't quite know why but your post just creeped me out.

Seriously, that's a very odd thing to say...

[UdoKier]

38. Really? So you're glad that the working class has been decimated?

That almost no moms can afford to stay at home even for a few years anymore? You think that's progress?

There have been some gains for people of color, but last time I checked, poverty was still endemic for them too.

For some people, drinking fountains and symbolism are of the utmost importance.

For me, EVERYBODY having a decent standard of living is way more important.

I don't buy into symbolism - we've got a "black" Secretary of State now, and that does NOTHING for any person of color.

I think your post is creepier by far. Trying to sniff for some hint of veiled racism, because poverty is irrelevant to you.

[JanMichael]

39. Nice. Real nice. Poverty is irrelevant to me.

Thanks. I appreciate your pissy attitude.

[UdoKier]

43. Well, I resent the implication you're making.

I have more in common with Pat Buchanan that George Bush - but I'm no Pat Buchanan...

[UdoKier]

42. THere seems to be an attitude among many afffluent liberals...

That because segregation was struck down, it has somehow translated into better living standards.

The fact is that poverty among people of color is still very high, and poverty among whites is higher (and don't cite me poverty statistics that define the poverty line as $12K for a family of 4)

The right and affluent liberals use symbolic victories like busing or Condi as secy of state to try to pretend that we've made progress.

But the rich have gotten richer and the poor - both black and white - have gotten poorer and more numerous.

Dr. King was about to start his Poor People's Campaign when they killed him. Isn't it interesting that they tolerated blacks at the front of the bus, but the notion of all working people in this country having a decent wage was anathema?

[Thtwudbeme]

44. You are kidding yourself dear

1963 was a fine year....IF you were a white male above the draft age.

Other than that...let's see...if you were black, you went to a black school, and lived in a black neighborhood...but, you seem to have a handle on that.

Let's take a look at the wimmenfolk: what type of jobs were available to them? Could they even wear pants to work? Safe birth control? Sexual attitudes?

I am sure that your white suburban memories were very nice...if you were a kid, you probably had parents with a yard, a swing set in the back, and could run around the neighborhood all day, and drink out of the hose.

If you were anyone else, 1963 probably didn't look so hot.

[UdoKier]

45. Yes, there were serious problems.

But it's interesting you mention kids, since they are the ones least able to fend for themselves in today's harsh reality.

There are still a good number of people living in the burbs with the swing sets, but with two parents working 3 jobs, it's not as good for them as it was back then - and for regular working people of any color - it's a living hell.

It's interesting that you mention MORE symbolic progress - like pants at work. Lady, if I could bring home a decent income, *I* would gladly wear a skirt to work.

It's great that we've made progress in some areas - but that doesn't feed kids.

[Thtwudbeme]

46. Are you complaining because a family can't live off one income?

?

[UdoKier]

48. Of course I am.

A family should be able to live on one income.

And women (or men) should be able to choose whether to work or stay home.


I know a lot of moms who would have liked to stay home for baby's first 4 years or so, but had to go back to work after only 6 months. That's fucking sad.

[JanMichael]

53. This is Thtwudbeme on my husband's screenname

just so there's no confusion.

I'll tell you what's fucking sad about the 2 income situation: Many people wouldn't be there if they didn't get themselves into a big assed mortgage to pay for a house in a better neighborhood. Many people wouldn't be there if they could bother to figure out how to live without two cars. Speaking of new cars, those SUV's are expensive, and the mortgage....yes, mortgage...on those motherfuckers last for 5 years...unless you want to lease in which case you don't even OWN the sonofabitch after those long 5 years are up.

Do people really need good wine, designer clothes, great computers, 500 channel TV's, CD's, new DVD players....

Many people put themselves in the two income trap.

Michael and I did not; when we try next year for kids I will be able to stay home for a few years...then it's his turn.

The "two income" bullshit blame game can be put squarely on the greed of the people list-

Stephanie

[UdoKier]

58. Some of us are in that trap merely as a function of where we live.

We drive a 1995 Ford Escort Wagon when not using bicycles or public transit.

We don't own a house, and have no hope of ever owning one because we live in the SF bay area. The rent alone for our 2 bedroom modest apartment is a backbreaker here.

We don't have most of that crap you mention - cable is free in our apartment - and we chose to live in the city, since the schools and social/cultural environment here are better than in the suburbs.

We really do need to incomes to get by here - it's totally NOT about maintaining a "lifestyle".

[JanMichael]

59. OK, so you say it's not about "lifestyle" then go on to

tell me that it's about your lifestyle.

I would personally love to live in the SF Bay area--what a dream! Wanna know why we don't? We can't AFFORD to.

[UdoKier]

62. What lifestyle?

We live in a little apartment, and take the kids to school and work.

There's no money left over for much else.

The parks are nice and free, we ride bikes when it's sunny.

We can't afford it either, but we chose to live in a hovel here over a decent-sized place in Sacramento or Fresno because of the schools and the cultural environment. No place else offers Japanese bilingual education, which is important to us as a bicultural family. Plus, the schools my kids attend are excellent. I'm scared of what kind of values my kids would absorb if we lived "out there" (consumption, Bush is God, consumption, consumption)

[UdoKier]

49. Oh yeah - and the tax code was MUCH more progressive than today.

The regressive payroll tax was half what it is now, and the top income tax rate was 70%, and get this - corporations ACTUALLY paid TAXES on their profits!

[datasuspect]

79. or asking to go to bathroom while at work?

my mom told me (and she was an office clerk) that they had to raise their hands to ask permission to use the facilities.

[HamdenRice]

68. You should review your history

The fact that legal segregation eliminated actually did raise living standards dramatically for many African American and Hispanic people who moved into the middle class. If you are not aware of this, please try to read some social history of the period.

Of course, many remained in poverty. But that does not discount the enormous impact desgregation had on living standards.

[HamdenRice]

65. I think the point they are making is ... 1975

that if you wanted to be inclusive in your criteria, you certainly would have chosen a different year. Saying 1963 was better if you were white is like saying Germany in the late 1930s was great as long as you weren't Jewish. On what criteria can you simple exclude the experiences of millions from your calculus of well-being?

One answer would be that the best year for all Americans was about 1975. In that year, the civil rights battles had largely been won and millions of African Americans and Hispanics moved into the middle class, even if many remained in poverty. For white people it was still possible to live a middle class lifestyle on a worker's income, and the mid 1970s were the years when GM auto workers lived as well as professionals. Women began moving into the workforce and for a short time two income families actually felt economically like they were benefiting from the incomes of two breadwinners.

There was inflation and stagflation, but strong labor unions ensured that wages kept up with inflation. The people who suffered most from inflation were in fact, wealthy investors living on passive incomes, who saw the value of their intangible wealth (stocks, bonds) shrink.

The Vietnam War was over and the revelations of Watergate, the Nixon administration, the CIA and the assassinations of the 1960s, had created an unprecedented democratization in Washington, with the Congress and press seizing power from and scrutinizing the executive, reigning in the FBI and CIA and creating FOIA.

1963 by contrast is a bizarre choice for the best year.

[datasuspect]

80. isn't that when kennedy got shot?

[radwriter0555]

20. Only to those who've never crossed the county line and have NO idea

what the rest of the world is all about.

[Just Me]

23. Greatness is a direction, not a destination. We're moving away from,..

,...greatness and towards a rogue, predatory, greedy tyranny. Well, actually, we've been moving away from greatness and towards tyranny for about the last 25-30 years.

What's most strange is how we've completely lost our moral compass under the leadership of self-proclaimed "righteous" people.

*sigh*

I do hope we get back on track soon.

[bixente]

24. Most livable?

One thing I notice is that every year, a list is released on the "most livable cities in the world," and American cities are quite sparce. On the latest list (I think) Vancouver, Vienna & Melbourne are at the top. The top-ranked American city was in the teens, maybe at No. 16 or so.

I know Vancouver, Vienna & Melbourne are very clean cities.

[aneerkoinos]

31. Here's the list

All the Nordic capitals made it into the top 20, first US city (if you don't count Honolulu 21) is Boston, 28.

1. (tie) Melbourne, Australia
1. Vancouver, Canada
3. Perth, Australia
4. (tie) Vienna, Austria
4. Toronto, Canada
4. Geneva, Switzerland
4. Zurich, Switzerland
8. (tie) Adelaide, Australia
8. Brisbane, Australia
8. Sydney,Australia
8. Copenhagen, Denmark
8. Dusseldorf, Germany
8. Frankfurt, Germany
8. Oslo, Norway
8. Montreal, Canada
16. (tie) Calgary, Canada
16. Helsinki, Finland
16. Stockholm, Sweden
19. (tie) Berlin, Germany
19. Amsterdam, Netherlands
21. (tie) Tokyo, Japan
21. Osaka, Japan
21. Honolulu, Hawaii
24. (tie) Hamburg, Germany
24. Munich, Germany
24. Auckland, New Zealand
24. Wellington, New Zealand
28. (tie) Brussels, Belgium
28. Reykjavik, Iceland
28. Luxembourg, Luxembourg
28. Boston, Massachusetts
32. (tie) Lyon, France
32. Paris, France
34. (tie) Barcelona, Spain
34. Atlanta, Georgia
34. Chicago, Illinois
34. Lexington, Kentucky
34. Miami, Florida
39. (tie) Cleveland, Ohio
39. Houston, Texas
39. Los Angeles, California
39. Minneapolis, Minnesota
39. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
44. (tie) Hong Kong, China
44. Lisbon, Portugal
44. Madrid, Spain
44. London, England
44. San Francisco, California
49. Seattle, Washington
50. (tie) Singapore
50. Manchester, England
52. (tie) Dublin, Ireland
52. New York, New York
54. (tie) Milan, Italy
54. Detroit, Michigan
54. Budapest, Hungary
57. (tie) Prague, Czech Republic
57. Rome, Italy
57. Washington, D.C.
60. Taipei, Taiwan
61. Seoul, South Korea
62. (tie) San Juan, Puerto Rico
62. San Jose, Costa Rica
64. (tie) Athens, Greece
64. Montevideo, Uruguay
66. Santiago, Chile
67. Buenos Aires, Argentina
68. Dubai, UAE
69. (tie) Tel Aviv, Israel
69. Warsaw, Poland
71. (tie) Zagreb, Croatia
71. Abu Dhabi, UAE
73. (tie) Guangzhou, China
73. Shanghai, China
75. (tie) Panama City, Panama
75. Amman, Jordan
77. (tie) Bahrain, Bahrain
77. Beijing, China
77. Shenzhen, China
77. Moscow, Russia
81. Pretoria, South Africa
82. (tie) Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
82. St. Petersburg, Russia
84. Tianjin, China
85. (tie) Sao Paulo, Brazil
85. Kiev, Ukraine
87. (tie) Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
87. Lima, Peru
87. Istanbul, Turkey
87. Kuwait, Kuwait
87. Tashkent, Uzbekistan
87. Tunis, Tunisia
93. (tie) Quito, Ecuador
93. Johannesburg, South Africa
93. Bucharest, Romania
96. (tie) Asuncion, Paraguay
96. Casablanca, Morocco
98. Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
99. (tie) Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
99. Baku, Azerbaijan
101. (tie) Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia
101. Bangkok, Thailand
101. Caracas, Venezuela
101. Tripoli, Libya
105. (tie) Guatemala, Guatemala
105. Mexico City, Mexico
105. Manila, Philippines
105. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
105. Belgrade, Yugoslavia
105. Harare, Zimbabwe
111. Cairo, Egypt
112. Libreville, Gabon
113. Colombo, Sri Lanka
114. Douala, Cameroon
115. (tie) Hanoi, Vietnam
115. Bogota, Colombia
115. Nairobi, Kenya
118. Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam
119. (tie) Jakarta, Indonesia
119. Tehran, Iran
121. New Delhi, India
122. Dakar, Senegal
123. Abidjan, Ivory Coast
124. Mumbai, India
125. Algiers, Algeria
126. Phnom Penh, Cambodia
127. (tie) Dhaka, Bangladesh
127. Lagos, Nigeria
129. Karachi, Pakistan
130. Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea

[idlisambar]

33. Something odd about a list...

...that ranks Houston as more "livable" than San Fransisco.

[newyawker99]

51. Hi bixente!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Megahurtz]

76. Ha Ha!

I like your avitar!

[annabanana]

27. We still have the greatest potential.......

Sadly, we are not busy trying to live up to it right now. I'm not ready to give up on it yet.

[porphyrian]

30. We've got a World Series that only we play in...

...there are diners in every city claiming to have the world's best coffee, what makes you think this should be held to higher criteria?

[Egalitariat]

32. Toronto won it twice****

nm

[ArcRabbit]

34. No, Not even close imho. n/t

[chlamor]

37. Do the Facts Lie?

To see where Americas priorities look no further than the Military Budget. We could also pull out the laundry list of treaties in recent memory that the US refused ti sign. America was founded on myths and a bounty of resources which it has squelched. The American lifestyle requires these resources and now it must appropriate them from distant lands and do what it takes to move people off of those lands which explains why the migrants look toward El Norte for even a meager existence. Here are a few excerpts from an article Shahid Alam wrote awhile back. He is now being persecuted along with Ward Churchill for his criticisms. Link to article at:/www.counterpunch.org/alam03232004.html
He states:
Prophet Muhammad said, "He is not one of us who proclaims the cause of tribal partisanship" When asked, what is "tribal partisanship," he an-swered, " your helping your own people in an unjust cause." <1>
<snip>
"The United States commands the largest lead where it matters most--in military power. At $396.1 billion in fiscal year 2003, US military spending exceeds the combined military budget of the next twenty countries. In 2002, the US outspent the seven "rogue" states (Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria and Cuba) by a factor of thirty-seven."
<snip>
"In many situations, it may be useful to look upon the rates of incarceration as an important indicator of un-freedom and racism in a country. For many years, USSR, 'the Evil Empire," led the world in this field with its Siberian gulags. More recently, the United States has taken the lead with the highest rate of incarceration per capita: 6.41 per thousand in 1999"
<snip>
"We are a compassionate country, and we are generous toward our fellow citizens." It is a favorite pitch with American politicians in both parties. But this just won't wash. In its Human Development Report, 2003, the UNDP measures a Human Poverty Index (HPI) for seventeen developed countries; it measures deprivations in four dimensions. On this index of human poverty, the US ranked dead last out of seventeen countries."
<snip>
" Instead, I will compare the funds allocated to 'foreign aid,' the index by which Americans most often measure their generosity towards poor countries. The total funds allocated by the United States to 'foreign aid" amounted to 0.11 percent (note the position of the decimal) of its gross national income. That is easily the lowest ratio for the twenty-four members of Development Assistance Committee of the OECD."
<snip>
"Every time America's 'leaders' boast of the "world's oldest democracy," and of exporting democracy to the world, I can see peasants expropriated; workers shot, tortured and jailed; people's revolutions overthrown, crushed by American force, guile and lucre all across the Periphery;..."

[Massacure]

41. Greatest militarily, perhaps. Not socially and economically though.

[LSdemocrat]

47. It still is barely (that's not saying much), but after four more years...

who knows?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PST]

52. in the greatest country in the world

people wouldn't constantly claim that it is the greatest country in the world..

[Crankie Avalon]

54. If I'm candid, I'd have to say "no".

Although we do have a relatively high degree of personal "freedom," we're far from being the freest or most democratic country, and we are far, far, far from being the most "civilized."

We consume the most and have the largest military, but all of that is predicated on our being the world's greatest debtor nation and living well beyond our means, as well as stealing the wealth of weaker nations. That can't last forever and our children or grandchildren will probably have to pay the price for it. We're becoming more and more like the old Soviet Union in our over-reliance on only our military to keep our "superpower" status, and our media is about as propagandistic as the Soviet Union's was (if a lot slicker and more competent).

I'm an immigrant, myself. I came here in the late 60s with my parents. They originally wanted to emigrate to Germany, but we would have had to continue waiting in a refugee camp for another year or so until Germany would have repatriated us. Canada was the next choice, but acquaintances of my father talked him out of it. So, we settled on America. It was pretty good here and we had a lot to be grateful for, but this country isn't what it was back then and the last few years have made my family wonder a little about whether or not we should have held out for Germany or Canada, after all. If I were a young man just finishing school and starting life, again, I would be very tempted to leave America for Europe.

Still, living in New York makes things bearable, and even very pleasant when I can forget that even a city like New York is a still a part of the same country that could elect a creature like Bush to be its president. I shudder to think how awful it would be to live in a less cosmopolitan part of America like...well, almost any other place in America, really. I think I've always preferred the company of other immigrants than I have most "real Murikans," as they call themselves, so this world-class city has been a refuge for me. I sometimes have to visit other parts of the country and, unless it's another big city, I can't wait to get back to New York.

I've shied away from calling myself an American the last two years or so. I'm too ashamed of the label. Now, I just call myself a New Yorker. I used to think only our corporate elites were vile, but recently I've begun wondering about our people, too. Some rightwing lurkers here might read a post like mine and have their blood boil, but they are pretty angry and hateful about life in general, anyway, and I really don't care what they think, regardless.

Cheers.

[Ironpost]

55. we are way down the list

[indepat]

56. Not any more: neocons have made sure of this

[twenty2strings]

57. It was the best of countries and it was the worst of countries...

Chauvinistic nationalism is like High school football or Someone talking bad about your family. You support the team and get pissed off. You can't say "hey,that was a good touchdown" for the other team. "Hey, uncle Joe may be a radioactive serial killer but he helped rebuild my carburetor and he goes to my church". A good book that has helped me is From Dawn to Decadence. Empires rise and fall.:crazy:

[tom_paine]

60. America, for all it's faults and flaws, was...Amerika is NOT

In fact, the New Amerika doesn't even technically belong to the Free World, that's how far we've fallen.

[PATRICK]

61. PT Barnum's coinage

"The Greatest Show on Earth" had some case for it behind the stagy hyperbole. Greatness of this sort isn't all that great and hype is still hype, and belligerent arrogance precedes a decline.

[gollygee]

64. America is a pretty good country - but so are a bunch of other countries

I'd disagree with greatest, but it's probably fair to say a great country. Certainly the ideals behind this country are great, despite an administration here and there steering us the wrong way.

[underpants]

66. Yes

next question

[Goldmund]

67. The whole concept of a "great country" is a bunch of bullshit.

[NCN007]

69. Yes it is

and to everyone else, if not us then who?

[Minstrel Boy]

70. I find this kind of thinking bizarre and unfortunate.

Maybe it's the Canadian in me. Sometimes I see Americans here gushing over my country, and I get embarrassed. I love Canada, and it has a lot going for it, but I would never dream of saying something like "Canada is the greatest country in the world!" It's unseemly, and smacks of insecurity and ignorance.

Today, "America, the Greatest Country in the World" amounts to the "Only Country in the World." That is, the only country of significance. It's why yesterday Bush could talk about international law with regards to Iran, and last year laugh about it with regards to himself.

I hope, someday, the United States actually joins the world for a change. Both will be better for it.

[Goldmund]

71. A-fucking-men.

[chlamor]

72. True

:toast:

[monobrau]

73. Don't know, but it's my country

I think it's kind of like asking if your mom is the greatest in the world. If you respect and appreciate something, you aren't constantly measuring it against others.
I appreciate the opportunity and the resources that I've been blessed with by virtue of the fact that I was born here. I think we all owe it to ourselves to evaluate our place in the world and see if we can raise the bar for everyone, and not be such a pain in the ass to the other inhabitants of the planet.

[DivinBreuvage]

74. Just about every country on earth is better.

I've been trying to emigrate to someplace in South America, Africa, or Asia for years, but those opportunities haven't panned out, so now I'm aiming for Albania.

[natrat]

75. fat, greedy cornfed obese morons

americans have evolved into a lower form of life and are governed by crooks---good skiing though

[Megahurtz]

77. No.

This place now sucks and it's getting worse.

[Deja Q]

78. It originally wasn't. Then started on the right path. Then got off it.

For many reasons - healthcare, jobs, and everything else we already know, the US is hardly the best.