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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:17 AM
Original message
More evidence of the stagnant holiday shopping!
This is anecdotal, but I went to my local Target today because the grocery store AND two drug stores didn't have a frigging 49 cent box of ornament hooks and was really dreading it. Saturday before Christmas, Target in a LARGE suburban/urban area sitting on an interstate highway.

Last year, there were traffic cops.

This year, I pulled in and had a weird moment of wondering what day it really WAS. The parking lot was half-full. I swear tomorrow I am going back up there with my digital camera to take a picture and post it here. When I went in (and this was 11 am), no crowds. No problems. Walked right up to a cashier, plenty available. It looked like a Tuesday morning in May, except for the Christmas decoration aisles!

Going tomorrow just to see the parking lot and take a picture. Yes, it is THAT weird. This is the Dallas area, we are RAISED to buy loads of crap.

The post office was nearly empty, too. I was there at 2 pm.

I'm happy about people not spending as much this Christmas, but it really has reached the point of being surreal now. What happens if there are no last-minute shoppers, either? One guy in Target laughed and told me they are "counting on the last minute husband shoppers." Um, what happens when they don't materialize either?

I have never seen anything like this. This is a repuke area, which means this isn't just some Democratic boycott.

Oh and the grocery store (really large one that's usually packed on a Saturday, much less the Saturday before Christmas) was a ghost town. I actually felt creeped out at that point, like some kind of bomb had hit and only about 50 of us survived.

:scared:
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ogradda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. same thing's going on here.
shopping is WAY down. the parking lots are only 1/2 full. gonna be some unhappy retail numbers this year.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. have noticed this all over the place
only reason why sales will be slightly better, border town... otherwise, forget it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. You're describing economic disaster.
And maybe only 50 of us WILL survive.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm not saying
I won't be happy when SOME people (namely repukes in office) get the shocker of hearing the retail numbers after the holiday season is over, but it has actually gotten quite creepy to me.

It's like almost EVERYONE in this area got a memo that said "Save your money!! DON'T SPEND!!" at the same time.


Won't that be interesting? bush gets re-elected, retailers have the worst holiday shopping season in YEARS and years.

Pretty telling.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. Wouldn't this be a wonderful headline?
"Bush's election means retailers have the worst holiday shopping season on record." (Thanks, Bouncy Ball.)

Of course, it won't happen, because the media whores never tell the truth. But, those who have brains can see.
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. We can only hope........
n/t

George's mandate to us all.....go shopping, take your family to DisneyWorld....... Be NORMAL? (What is normal?)

Thank you, Bush Family Empire (take the family history trail back all the way, it is truly frightening).

And yes, I live in Dallas and I've been noticing as well, shoppers aren't there. I remember a time when only Valley View was at Preston & the LJB/635 Loop. There was no Galleria. It was packed solid then in 1976. Same in the late 90's when there was the Galleria too, traffic in and out of mall areas was horrific. Not this year! Hooray!

"Something is happening here,
What it is ain't exactly clear.....
Stop now
What's that sound,
Everybody look
What's going round......."
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
66. the stores near me are crowded; Chicago suburbs
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. Grocery store here in Mass. empty, too.
Not only is it the last weekend before Christmas, but we're expecting snow as well. That alone usually has the grocery stores mobbed. Very strange.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I SWEAR I am totally weirded out by this.
Why are all the bush voters in my area staying home? What has them worried? They voted for the guy!

I hate to say it, but had Kerry been elected, I'd be spending more money on Christmas this year. I'd be feeling pretty darn optimistic.

My area is so repuke that I can't blame this on a Dem boycott. Which makes it even more surreal.

They know. They KNOW they re-elected an asshole who is ruining the country.
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flygal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
35. That's exactly how I feel - I would have spent much more had Kerry
won. For some reason with * back in I'm watching my money much more. I even noticed at the store I spend much more time looking for blue products, finding the best bargain, cooking from scratch.
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liberalcanuck Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
41. I can definitely identify with that feeling. I have been WAY more re-
luctant to buy anything that could be considered frivolous at all. The cognitive dissonance that arises for me is whether to purchase something I can live without, or walk out with more money in my pocket!

I'm just trying to be as debt-free as I can be. I got two credit cards that I'm paying off that are the bane of my existance.

Economic doom draws near. At this point, I don't know how much I can do to shield myself from what we all know is coming. Unfortunately, the have-nots will be royally cheneyed.
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
48. Terraists are lurking at the malls...
Remember the propaganda? The conflecting messages?

"You are in mortal danger, spend more money. Terrorists are going to target shopping malls, go shopping now".

Bush's base did not vote for him out of hope or optimism, but out of FEAR.

And just maybe they are staying home because they fear Usamma may be hiding inside Victoria's Secret or the Starbucks at the local Mall.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
69. I noticed that too, maybe people aren't doing as many parties.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. yeah, I was at Central Market in FW this evening, it was just
about dead.

Now last night, I went over to far West Camp Bowie to have dinner with my daughter and the cops were out on I20 near Hulen, to route the traffic etc. and the traffic was pretty bad. But I have seen it far far worse, much earlier in the season.

Yep, somethin's happenin'


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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I LOVE that Central Market!
The one at I-30 and Hulen, right? I like the World Market right there, too. Haven't been over there in a while.

See, a place like that Central Market should be PACKED to the gills the Saturday before Christmas, with people getting fixings for Christmas dinner, parties, etc.

My Target, this time last year, you had to park at the restaurant WAY on the other side of the huge shopping area then hoof it over there, then fight the ginormous crowds, then stand in line forever.

I was SO blown away that I pulled in to a spot about 10 spots from the front that I had a moment like this: "ok this is December........18th, right? When is Christmas? The 25th. That's.....seven days." Then I sat there and looked around. My car, about 10 from the front of the lot, had no other cars to the south of it. Wide open space.

That was the moment I truly got creeped out. Ever seen the old 80s movie "Night of the Comet?"

I've noticed a lot of Christmas parties people threw in the past aren't being held this year. I'm hearing things like "we're going out of town" or "we're scaling back this year" etc. Plus some of them are anticipating lay offs after the start of the year.

Hey, I just thought of something--I wonder if a lot of bush voters aren't worried about their JOBS and that's why they aren't buying?

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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. that's the one, the one we got before Dallas got one BWAAHHAA
snicker, always fun to poke at Big D a little.

Yeah, and I go to the Target on Overton between Bryant Irvin & Hulen, just off 20. It has not been crowded all season.
My daughter and I went to Hulen Mall Tuesday for a pedicure and were amazed at the number of available parking spaces, right at the time people would stop in to shop after work before going home.

Something's weird.

On the good side, when we had our Sunday School class fundraiser auction, we managed to raise the same amount as we did last year. I did not expect us to raise that much, but we did.

Job market is strange here. I have been laid off since June, and it has never taken me this long to find work..I just accepted an offer finally but it is a new field and area of expertise for me so I will have to learn a lot, but dammit it is a job!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you a Fort Worther?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You bring up another good point.
While I was in Target, I didn't see any of those baskets you usually see this time of year. You know the kind: basket just LOADED down with presents for the kiddos and a worn out mom and dad (or just one of them) pushing it, trying desperately to make their way through the crowds of other full baskets to the check out lanes.

None of that. And I was all over the toy department.

I have a friend who is a manager at the Kohl's (department store) nearby and she said so far their sales look to be at least 20% off, if not more. She told me that's a LOT for sales to be off and she's worried about layoffs after the holidays.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. Aren't the GOPhers boycotting Target
Didja happen to notice if Wally-World was similarly desolate?

Just wonderin'.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Wal-Mart and Sam's are a joke here.
And this is Texas. The Sams here has lost a LOT of business to Costco. I don't think it's all politically motivated, people just seem to like Costco more from what I understand.

There is a Super Wal-Mart down the interstate highway from my Target. The lot was half-full, like Target. Apparently the only good day they had around here was the day after Thanksgiving (that's according to the local paper). Since then it's been like this all over.

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Consumer Confidence.
This is the failure of the Bush-Republicanism. They can pretend all is swell and the media can trumpet the same.....but the reality is, the American public ain't spending because the future looks bleak.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. I noticed the same thing here, south of Seattle..
Seemed to be a normal weekend to me. Unless everybody shopped early this year, based on what i've seen, it will be a pretty dismal shopping season. Even IKEA was dead this morning. I actually got to park in the parking lot nearest the store (a FIRST.. usually, I have to go to the spill over parking in the back).
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. I don't shop after Thanksgiving as a rule
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 02:48 AM by Clark2008
I hate to shop (yep... I'm a Southern female and yes, despite the stereotype, I hate to shop) anyway, but I really hate to shop during the Christmas season, so I always get it done before Turkey Day. I will shop online some after that day, but that's about it.

OT a bit, but I took my son to see "Polar Express" today. I know it's a "feel good" movie, but it did make me feel good. I wept. I don't "weep." I'm not a weepy woman. But I did - at the part when the kids befriend the poor little boy. My son (he's 5 and this is THE big year for Christmas - 5 and 6 and 7 are the biggies) was all eyes-wide and full of questions and, well, it was a nice movie to take your kids to see. Despite the computer-generated graphics, it was still very simple and sweet. Not preachy - just right. We went afterwards and fed ducks and geese in the park. Poor little things were so hungry they were taking bread out of my hand. I fell in love with this sweet little Canadian goose. She was just an angel. So pretty and more brave than her male counterparts. Just a doll (no one bit me - they were all so gentle. :) )

And - I do believe in Santa Claus (St. Nicholas) - if not the "person," the spirit of Christmas...

I hope you have a Merry one, guys... and it's not about the gifts, it's about the giving. :)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Deleted message
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. I'm in Tennesse - in Knoxville as a matter of fact
I went to The Duck Pond - AKA Fountain City Park.

I'm a UT Grad, just so ya know. :)

I live two houses from Adair Park and there was ducks there when we moved in - had 17 ducks born under the kitchen window a week after my son was born.

And, if the city would let me - I'd have a watch-goose. My dogs are too sweet. ;)
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
58. you and me both!
i also detest shopping after thanksgiving - hate the crowds with a passion. i sent money this year and bought some stuff online.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
55. West coast here too...
Portland - I run a recycling center, just a small one, but this is SUPPOSED to be our busy season! Instead, we're at the same level we were before Halloween. NOT good!. I've spoken to a few others who work at the larger co's (Smurfit and Weyerhaeuser) they say the same thing. The bosses aren't freaking out yet, but when I take reports in to my boss for the day before, he gets that "oh shit, this ain't good" look on his face. As yet, I haven't had the guts to say "Remember, I told you in Aug. this would happen if * was re-elected"
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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well, I took my daughter to get her Christmas today--
she's 17 and I can't risk not getting the right things. I only shopped in blue stores and had my list of where NOT to go! I was telling my daughter what stores were majority Dem contributors and which were not. My daughter laughed at me as she was receiving a good education! lol I would say "bad bad store!" as we would walk by Victoria Secrets, Express, and Limited. They were busy, but not as busy as I had seen in the past years. There WERE a lot of people but I noticed hardly anybody was carrying much baggage. Most were carrying just one bag and small at that. I even saw some "God Is Not a Republican..." and Kerry/Edwards stickers on a couple cars!!! I had my democraticunderground sticker on.

When you have a teenage daughter, it's hard not to buy. So I tried to do my best and steer her toward Dem contributors. She didn't mind as she liked J Crew, Gap, Banana Republic, & Old Navy. I'm still trying to find out about Abercrombie, though. I can't find where they contribute anything yet. Maybe they are under another name. That's the only place she can find jeans that fit her halfway decently other than The Buckle which is also really expensive for jeans.

Anyway, the stores were definitely NOT as packed as I've experienced before. I remember having to wait in line FOREVER in these stores like a sardine. No waiting whatsoever today. All the help in American Eagle was wondering around saying they were bored. I think there was more help standing around straightening things up than customers.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
30. Deleted message
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Indiana_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. I want to add---internet shopping.....
I've done more internet shopping than I ever have this year. I did most all of it on the internet. The only one I had left to buy for today was my daughter whom I have to buy for in person for it to be worthwhile.

So internet shopping COULD be a factor.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. You're right
there could be more people doing internet shopping.

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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Even internet gifts
have to get delivered. Usually I see all of the major shipping companies working the neighborhood until after 9PM this time of year. I haven't been seeing them much.

I also haven't gotten many Christmas cards, and haven't seen much going on in the holiday party circuit. :shrug:

I would like to think that people just don't like me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Deleted message
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Self reinforcing delusion? nt
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
46. HAD to order from Amazon yesterday, FREE, STANDARD shipping
is guaranteed to arrive before Christmas Eve.

That sounds to me like internet shopping is way down too.

Not 2nd day air, not overnight--STANDARD. Meaning from Amazon--FREE shipping, a week before Christmas Day.

That's a very bad sign, IMHO.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. $25 order?
They always have free standard shipping on orders of $25 or more.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #60
72. My point is that with standard shipping, it'll still get here before
Christmas. Like I've said, I worked retail--and that's not SOP.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Nobody cares if us poor folks can't spend
~snip~

Luxury stores such as Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, Saks Fifth Avenue and small designer boutiques are enjoying robust sales of such items as $8,000 mink ponchos, $1,000 snakeskin handbags, $200 crystal-studded jeans and $25,000 bejeweled bangles as their well-heeled shoppers have benefited from a recovering economy.
...

Contrast that with the results of discounters such as Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and midlevel stores such as Sears, Roebuck and Co. and May Department Stores Co. Inc., all of which have been struggling with tepid sales. Many are fighting hard with early bird specials on Saturdays, free gift cards and special coupons.
...

Though the economy has been growing and the job market has improved recently, much of the wealth created has gone to already wealthy Americans. And with other factors this year pinching all but the richest, slow growth in the nonluxury retail market would not be surprising.
...

Even high-end toys are selling well. American Girl, a unit of Mattel Inc., has sold out of such doll accessories as $70 miniature beds and $48 spa sets. And while FAO Schwarz's average selling price is $20, it is doing well with such big-ticket items as collector dolls and life-size plush animals, both of which sell for several thousand dollars.

More, if you can stomach it: http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/10443552.htm?1c
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. We are doing NOTHING on Christmas, and I only got presents
for our 3 grown sons, their S/O's, my best friend, and a few little ThankYou gifts..

I shopped online or at a 70% discount (or better)..

I am not even cooking that day..:)

We have no tree or decorations up (really because of all the cats:)..)
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jdots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
22. Wanta see empty ? electronis places
One reason is the lack of spiffy new techno stuff for Xmass.The reason is the sucking economy.
A huge problem is that the company bosses have so much money that don't care.The Wall-mart kids are now the richest people on earth.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. My husband went to
Fry's the other day and he said it was no busier than it would be any time of the year.

I don't know anyone buying electronics for Christmas gifts this year. I mean, I'm sure SOME peope are, but I don't see those plasma TVs and surround sound systems just flying off the shelves.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
68. they are still really expensive and I can't see people shelling out for
them
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I drove past the Super Wal-Mart on the same highway a bit later
and the parking lot there was half full, too. Which is a HUGE shocker. But this Target is extremely popular and very well-situated. I remember the week before Christmas last year-you couldn't get near the place. Heck, that was true from Thanksgiving through Christmas!

Do you hear those crickets chirping?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. Deleted message
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. I never have either.
A bit off in sales, ok. But this? That's why I Officially Got Creeped Out today by it. It's more than just a little off.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:54 AM
Response to Original message
36. Same thing with us today in Vegas.
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 03:55 AM by stopbush
Went to a Target at 215 and Flamingo...no one there, lot half full, walked right up to a cashier. In and out in 10 minutes at 3PM.

Tonight, I'm watching the local news (NBC). They've got a report on "the biggest shopping weekend of the year." They staked out The Meadows Mall which is relatively close to the Strip. The reporter talked about how busy it was...as they ran footage that looked like mid-week in October! No one there, no lines to show, no crowds filling the mall. Then, the story suddenly morphed into how video games were the big ticket this year...and how some fundy idiot in Michigan or somewhere was trying to get sales of them to kids banned because of their violence and overt sex!! It was unbelieveable.

The story ended with the reporter standing in an empty parking lot in the dark telling shoppers that they "had better come prepared with a lot of patience if they're planning on shopping tomorrow!!"

Idiots.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. These 'reporters' really get me
they have their story and they're sticking to it even when the facts and the pictures show the opposite. :silly:
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
38. Not happening here.
I live in a large suburban area in North Georgia which is totally repuke. Target is quite close to where I live. And the parking lot and store are packed. I have to get there at 9 a.m. just to get a parking space.
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sbj405 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Yeah I haven't noticed much of a drop here either
Outside DC. I went yesterday morning and it wasn't too bad, but rode by later in the afternoon and it looked pretty packed.

I have noticed more coupons for stores that don't typically offer them, though.

We'll see when the report comes out. I'm sure the administration will have some new way to calculate sales figures so as to make it appear as though are economy isn't completely screwed.
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djack23 Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
76. DC economy doing well w all those contractors and fed employees
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cycleberg Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
40. a couple of Houston Metro areas
Kemah Target on Saturday at NOON - people in the store but NOT even close to be busy, especially weekend before Christmas busy. Not even the Saturday type of busy for me to get irritated.

also, I had to go to the grocery store late Friday afternoon...cringing. So I end up at a major grocery in the 'Montrose' area of Houston on Friday around 5pm. It was EMPTY.

Disturbing.
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. 50% off at the Kmart
in my neighborhood here in Englewood, Colorado. Lots of signs up & down the streets and on all the corners. I thought someone was campaigning.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
45. We left yesterday to finish up at *AM, amid radio warnings of
huge lines simply to park and traffic jams everywhere.

Total and complete fabrication.

The busiest mall in our area, and you couldn't even tell it was open there were so few cars.

At noon, at the busiest Target in the city, you couldn't tell it was anything but a typical Saturday.

I did my time in retail (12 years at an upscale department store).

We are being lied to big time.

The economy is tanking, there is no hiding it.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
47. Job loss last month: 2000
And as far back as I can remember, layoffs usually happen right before Xmas. Yesterday's paper had a front page item about how retailers were not doing so well.

Boo frickin hoo. Could this be a correlation? Maybe the people working two part time jobs or temps like me with unstable employment aren't willing to spend every cent we have. I for one am not willing to singlehandedly prop up the economy.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
49. I had yesterday off, so...
I went out to check on how various stores were doing.

The first place I went was Wal-Mart. The parking lot was full, but this is a payday weekend for a lot of people in this area. I strolled around for half an hour or so, glancing in people's carts. A lot of people seem to be getting groceries and underwear for Christmas this year. The $5.50 DVDs seem to be popular choices too. The toy department was pretty sparsely stocked, lots of holes; later I got a newspaper that reports Wal-Mart is having supply chain problems in toys this year.

Target was about as y'all are reporting--just a normal Saturday, no huge Christmas rush.

Home Depot had lots of customers. The popular items are all pretty cheap this year--the Black & Decker AutoTape and the Ryobi suction-cup laser level are both moving rapidly. And once again, people are getting roofs for Christmas. We didn't buy much Christmas-only seasonal, and it's almost all gone now. We got a lot of tools; we can sell through them at any time of the year.

(Quick note: half of our population is military, and a majority of them are on tax-exempt basis--all the money you make in a combat zone is tax-free.)

Kmart looked a lot like Target.

Lowe's was fairly sparse yesterday.

The mall was semi-packed, but lots of them were lookers. Not too many bags in hand.

The craft stores--we have Michael's, AC Moore and Jo-Ann's--were thick with people. Jo-Ann's is the only one who sells fabric, and there were lots of holes in the fabric selection. AC Moore seems to be selling through the flag cases.

I didn't check the car lots.
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carnie_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
50. Meanwhile stores in San Francisco
the bluest of blue cities are jammed
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. same here in sacramento
doesn't seem much different to me :shrug:
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IStriker Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. More evidence...
I have a good friend who works at one of two major dept. stores in my area. She lives and works in one of the wealthiest areas around here. I asked her what was happening and she said the lots are filled, the stores are full of shoppers, but nobody is buying anything much. They had a really great day after T'giving, but it slowed to a crawl since then. Won't know if the sales in the past couple of days make them buy until I talk to her again, but she said it is most definitely slower than last year.
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
52. here along the border
i had to go to target last sunday & was dreading it. yes, the parking lot was full & the store was full, but i noted only 2 cars w/texas tags in the row i parked in & the one next to it...the rest were from mexico. i then went to the movies which are in the same shopping center. usually on a sunday, the movie theatres are crammed to the gills, but even when i left after the show, there were very very few cars in the movie theatre's parking lot. i also noticed this a few weeks ago when i went to the same theatre about the same time.

dg
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
53. Meanwhile, at high-end San Diego mall, $300,000 diamond set sells
At least, that is what the reporter said last night as she reported from Fashion Valley. She also interviewed the jewelry store owner who said business was up 20%.



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cmf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
54. I'm in suburban Washington state
Yesterday I went to the Navy base to get some groceries and pick up some last minute gifts at the Navy Exchange. The commissary was deserted, only a few retirees there. Same with the NEX, I had no problem wandering around picking up stuff. The condition on the base could be attributed to the fact that most families have already left for the holidays.

After shopping on base, I went into the belly of the beast - the Target shopping center. I didn't go into Target, but instead into Game Stop to buy some used video games and DVDs. The parking lot looked like any other Saturday afternoon. It wasn't bad at all.

This week, the Bon (big department store here) kept advertising their "One Day Sale" on Thursday and that it would be the last sale before Christmas. I guess the figures weren't very good, because on Friday, they started hyping up their "Weekend Sale" for this weekend.
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Ms_Mary Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
56. I only have a small store, but the last two months have been unusually
slow. It's killing me. I've been doing all kinds of promotional things. It's helped a little, but I'm still behind my sales for the last couple of years. I usually get some Christmas business, but this holiday season has been disappointing. It was fine up until election time. Coincidence? I tend to think not.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. I guess it's time to get into
high-priced inventory. I don't know what your line is, but maybe the expensive stuff is the way to go.
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Ms_Mary Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Ha. I've barely been able to pay the bills, much less spend extra $$$
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
59. A sign of the times-- rich get richer....
Since us regular folks have to worry about gas in their car, food to eat, fuel to heat their homes, pay for meds, etc. IIRC, prices on these basics have soared because of the energy-related costs directly or passed on in other commodities.

Therefore with all that extra money going to survive, there is not much money left for all the Christmas niceties. And Dubya's so called tax cut isn't doing squat for them.

Meanwhile the wealthy, flush with the Dubya tax cuts, don't have a problem with going shopping. Tiffany, Brooke Brothers, Neiman-Marcus, they aren't hurting, not at all.

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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
61. One of LA's most popular malls ... no crowds
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 03:06 PM by goclark

I was in the the Howard Hughes Mall in Culver City Saturday from 11 -2.

It looked like a regular day.

Lots of places to park, easy to get waited on, could eadsily get into Norstrom's Rack.

Where are the people?
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annonymous Donating Member (850 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
63. I went shopping yesterday and this past Thursday.
There were only a few stores that were really packed--Victoria's Secret and Bath & Body Works. All other stores didn't have large crowds. I noticed that no one really was buying a lot of stuff either. I am cutting back on holiday gifts this year due to tight finances.
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lolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
64. Money, or state of mind?
I've been very fortunate this year and have no income problems; I just don't feel like celebrating much. I honestly believe if Kerry had won I would be pretty jubilant right now. As it is, I didn't even feel like decorating. I bought the first tree I saw at Target a couple days ago-usually I'm getting a big, special tree right after Thanksgiving.

I let it sit in my living room for 3 days--we had some friends over yesterday and they decorated it; I just wasn't up to it.

I've been shopping, but like you all have been saying, I just don't feel like buying anything. And what I've bought, I haven't wrapped yet.

Damn that SOB. He's even ruined Christmas for me.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
65. just got back from the warehouse store
slower than a usual Sunday (especially since it's "silly season" with all our winter visitors all ready here)

no big ticket items in baskets, food mostly but no big hams or turkeys, no gifty looking stuff at all in the line I was in. It was like a Thursday morning crowd, not the Sunday b4 Xmas
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jackranch Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Chains slow, Indies busy in Austin
I was talking to my brother yesterday who used to work at Circuit City and Ultimate Electronics here and he was telling me that Business is horrible at CC. Ultimate is evidently having trouble just keeping the doors open, business is that bad for them and they sell high end electronics. On the other hand the pool cleaning business he manages is doing boffo business with the wealthy. I did a little shopping of my own. I went to Katz Deli for breakfast and it was dead for a weekend. (what is up with the motto going from "We never Klose" to "We never ForeKlose") Book People and Waterloo music were both packed and busy with numerous anti-bush bumper stickers in the parking lot. There is a giant theater that I drive past every day and the parking lot was only 1/3 full yesterday at 4pm. It is usually packed on the weekends.
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Spacemom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. Why Katzs never Forecloses

They've filed for bankruptcy protection.
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nascarblue Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
71. I am forever staying away from corporate BS.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
74. I think people are getting to the point
where we realize we've already got enough stuff?

At this point in my life, when someone says, what do you want for christmas/birthday, I really can't say I want anything.

If I see something that I want or need I just buy it. So by the time I get to Christmas, the gifts are no longer the main focus. It's much more about having some time off and hanging out with friends and family and working on one of my many ongoing projects.


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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Shopping down here in Orlando....
my husband and I went to the Orlando Fashion Square yesterday. We were all finished with Christmas shopping months ago, but I wanted to get myself a bottle of Red Door perfume for my birthday. We only go to the mall around this time of year. We were really surprised, the parking lot near Penny's was about 1/3 full and the stores were not that crowded. We were there in the middle of the day too after church but before dinner. There were also a lot of 50% off signs. Not a good sign for the economy.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
77. Here's an article about the slow season
Biggest shopping day isn't quite

Despite long lines, big crowds, sales 'below expectations.'

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~2608102,00.html
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
78. It doesn't seem
to be slow in my area at all. I needed a spool of thread on Saturday so I went to a local fabric and craft shop. The line to the cash registers snaked through the aisles. There had to be 30 or more people waiting. The traffic was horrendous everywhere and every parking lot was full. Horns were blaring. It was a madhouse. I didn't get my thread. I live about a mile and a half from a large mall and the biggest shopping strip/zone in the area. Every traffic light there was a wait of at least three light changes. I am not going out again unless I absolutely have to. In this area, we do not seem to be experiencing any shopping slowdown. Real estate is still booming here too. The builders can't seem to build fast enough.

Personally, I have been doing a lot to add to the growth of the economy. I hate to be spending money, but we bought a really beat-up old mobile home and property and have been in the process of fixing it up for the last year and a half - a little at a time as we get the money.
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skippysmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
79. Another anecdote here in Mass:
Yesterday, the Sunday before Christmas, the busiest shopping day of teh year, we went to the movies at the theater at the mall. I couldn't believe it when we had no problem parking.

One thing I have noticed is longer lines at the stores. Seems like a lot of retailers didn't hire as much holiday help.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
80. Out and about yesterday afternoon
First stop was a grocery store (midtown Kansas City). This is a big store that often is absolutely jammed. Not yesterday. The parking lot wasn't even half-full on the Sunday before Christmas. Now, there was a Chiefs game wrapping up about then, but they've been sucking eggs this season, so how much impact that had, I don't know.

I then swung by a Barnes & Noble, which was pretty busy, but a lot of the customers looked like they were just hanging out having hot chocolate and browsing. The registers were busy, but not too.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
81. Doesn't seem to be a problem here.
I live right by a Target and a Best Buy. The parking lots are always full. I went mall-shopping last weekend (at 4 different malls) and the parking lots were overflowing. Although now that I think about it, I don't see nearly as many people with armloads of packages...interesting.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
82. Had the same experience in
California.:shrug:
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Spike from MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
83. No crowded stores here in MN
I have yet to see anything even remotely resembling a crowd at any of the stores or malls I have been to since Thanksgiving. The weekend crowds haven't materialized and the parking lots are even less crowded than they are on non-holiday weekends. As an example, a few weekends ago I was at a mall where I normally have to drive around for 15-20 minutes to find a parking spot. But this time there were only 20-30 cars in the parking lot. Like the OP, I started wondering what day it was and thought that maybe I was there too early and the place wasn't open. I was wrong. It was open all right but there just weren't any customers. Unreal. It has been like that everywhere I have gone.
I have never seen anything like this before. It seems a bit eerie to say the least.
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