What happened to America?: A review of the rise of fascism to power

[Sephirstein]

Wow! You guys have all got to read this.

http://senatesim.joelrotunda.org/forums/showthread.php?p=144811

[JohnKleeb]

1. That guy was a DUer I think at one time

the writter that said I liked it
I seem to remember him. He was even more far left than me and :) that says a lot not really but I am pretty far left.
Good night DU see you all later.
Tommorow is my last night of summer so no more staying up late and hanging up with you all but I will be here often.

[izzie]

2. Where are you going?

Just asking as I like your posts.

[Pocho]

3. MARTIN'S STILL A PART OF DU

And good thing for us. His last was two days ago and linked here. In contrast to that brief but insightful post however, the detailed historical take down refered in the initial post of this thread reveals more fully the depth of his perspective. Way to go Martin. Read it, study it, and then ponder again the question "Who ya for in 2004?".

[Q]

4. A great read...

- I've been spouting this same thesis for years...but the author does a much better job of tying it all together.

- But I get the impression that a majority of the Dem party will continue to be fooled (brainwashed) into believing in the DLC's legitimacy and the 'need' to move right and abandon the working class.

[Nlighten1]

5. The DLC hasn't been "fooled" by anyone.

They are willing participants in the rape of our country. There was a post the other day about some 11-year old boy who committed suicide because he was bullied relentlessly. The thread went into a debate about how America allows this bully mentality to flourish. What we are seeing on a macro scale is the school-yard bullies have grown up and taken over the playground. But the same people who stood by and watched the bullies are STILL standing by and watching the bullies and not doing anything about it.

[kentuck]

6. Martin is always an interesting read...

Look forward to his posts...

[nolabels]

7. I agree with Trotsky, Martin kind of looks at as a plan

Where Trotsky is more or less says it is a natural cause and effect, the rich may make plans 10 and 20 years out, but they a not smart enough to predict social impetus and subvert it on plan. That type of thing seems to me more like instinctual of primal monkey origins which Trotsky has explained of how they happen. I would be more cautious in thinking other things might happen. Quite a few civilizations left with out notice or reason, suddenly.

I wouldn't say Martian is wrong, and cause and effect is the reason, I would only make the point that sometimes we are our own worst enemy and give the hangman the very noose from which one gets to swing from

[bpilgrim]

8. wow

excellant essay :toast:

I am wondering how we change direction now?

to me it looks like the dem party will rip it self apart and wont be good for anyone let alone a potential obsticle to the neo-cons 2000 illustrated that point...

how can we avoide wwIII(IV) :shrug:

:'(

peace

[Iverson]

9. nicely done (n/t)

;(

[bobthedrummer]

10. Thanx for this link!

I've bookmarked it.
:hi:

[Nikia]

11. How do we undo this?

Do we have to gradually sneak things the other way or do we tell everyone the truth and hope that they understand it?

[Nay]

12. Good question, Nikia.

Telling the truth doesn't seem to work very well, at least not in microclimates like my workplace. When I lay out facts and figures that contradict the RW ideology, people just turn and walk away, only to come back another day, spouting the same crap that I just plainly demonstrated as wrong. It isn't a matter of truth anymore, and that's what makes the rise of fascism in America so possible. I personally have been appalled at the attitudes, opinions, irrational beliefs, and simple superstition that has been swirling around me since the Reagan years -- how do you combat whole communities full of minds that cannot think or reason?

The powers that are directing this fascism understand their supporters well, and they understand us, too. We also understand them quite well (we do call them what they are -- fascists), but we have no pull with their underlings. It will boil down to whether the people in this country, when they are abused enough, just knuckle under and blame the "liberals," "Jews," "n------," etc. and join the fascist party in abusing their fellow Americans, which is a definite possibility, or whether they will conduct their own version of the civil rights bus boycott.

Right now, I think the majority are trying on their black uniforms and shiny jackboots. When you think about it, the "I've got mine" and "greed is good" mantra of the capitalist system does not encourage us citizens to feel or act as a cohesive group with an eye to its own group survival. The RW has done a great job of turning us all against each other, while binding its own group together with wacky religion and exaggerated patriotism.

Everyone, please read "Defying Hitler" by Sebastian Haffner for an exact description of the emotional and mental states of the German people as they went through their own pre-fascist convulsions. I cannot recommend this book enough. It will turn your hair white. You will recognize, on each page, the exact situations occurring here in the U.S.

[MSchreader]

13. Glad you liked it

I posted it here, in three parts, a while ago -- just before the changeover to the new software, IIRC. But I am glad you all like it. I am open to questions and comments on it too.

Martin