Does a person's religion really matter?

[chimpy the poopthrower]

I mean, honestly. We all have free choice to do and say as we wish. If a person thinks, for example, that a woman should be subservient to a man, does it really matter whether that viewpoint is rooted in religion, culture, or just plain secular sexism? Religion never made anyone do anything. Certainly, it can influence people. It can inspire people to do the right things and it can contribute to people doing the wrong things, but why let anyone off the hook by blaming religion instead of the person?

I think a person's inner sense of right and wrong guides their religion rather than the other way around. A person may believe abortion is a sin, but they're not going to go around bombing clinics unless they already have that trait. It's like hate groups. You don't burn a cross on someone's lawn because the KKK made you. You join the KKK because engaging in that sort of hate crime appeals to you. Anyone who watched the Daily Show last night with Bishop Desmond Tutu saw the positive side of religion. I can name many people throughout history who were religious and did very good things. I can also list religious people who did bad things.

I think Republicans love to use religion as a wedge issue. And when a small minority continually bashes all religion, or all Christians, or makes other sweeping generalizations about religion, that feeds right into their plans. It's possible to stand up for gay rights, reproductive rights, and other issues without making it about religion.

Religion is so broad a term, with so many different meanings to so many people, that it really is pointless to try to make any generalizations at all about it. Are you religious if you go to a church or temple or mosque? Are you religious if you believe as Thomas Jefferson and other Deists believed that God exists but takes no active part in the natural world? Are you religious if you feel a sacred connection to the universe or if you have a personal conception of a god or gods?

I think religion should be kept out of political arguments. To argue that atheism or agnosticism is somehow better than religion doesn't seem much different from arguing that one religion is better than another. Incidentally, I'm talking about religion, not cults. A religion is something a person chooses for himself. I'm aware that there are situations where a person might not really have this freedom, but I don't think that is the dominant situation, at least in this country.

[skygazer]

1. "Religion never made anyone do anything"?

How about the Crusades? How about the Inquisition? How about the Reformation or any of a hundred other historical acts of violence that are directly attributed to religious belief?

That has to be one of the most ingenuous statements I've ever read.

[bryant69]

4. Well

There are alternative analysis to all of those issues. People seldom have just one motivation. It's safer to say, particularly in the cases of the Crusades (most of them) and the Inquisition, that religion was just the cover for really despicable acts.

Right now the Conservatives are tryign to use the United State's patriotic symbols and imagery of this country to cover some really awful actions; does that mean that the symbols are to blame?

As long as man kind believes in anything, there will be some bastards who try to use that belief to push their own bs agendas.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Dorian Gray]

6. Particularly the Inquisition...

Which was more a result of the Spanish crown trying to rid itself of potential "dissenters" rather than the Papacy fully throwing its weight behind it.

That there weren't more voices condemning the Inquisition was a travesty, but it was more a governmental campaign than a religious one. A case where a government mis-used religious ideology to further their abuse and goals.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

5. People chose to do those things.

Whether or not they used religion as justification is beside the point. Religion never MADE anyone do anything, just as political parties don't make anyone do anything. I may be a registered Dem, but that doesn't mean I have to vote for Kerry. I am doing that of my own free will. I am a Democrat because that's what reflects my political beliefs most closely. If I had different beliefs, I could change parties and/or vote for Bush.

Now, if you are talking about the actions of an actual religious institution, like the ancient Catholic Church or a theocratic government, that is a different story and not related to my post, which focuses on individuals.

[davhill]

12. An analogy I like to use.

Every day in the paper there are murders where the killer said he was acting in the name of love. Because someone murders an unfaithful spouse and attributes it to "love" is no reason to get rid of love. The same way, because people like Ben Laden, Bush and the Spanish Inquisition have abused religion is no reason to get rid of religion.

[republicansareevil]

15. I think that's a great analogy. (nt)

[Dedalus]

2. Excellent question...

I'd never made that distinction myself. I got into countless arguments in college with friends who, after hearing some frat boy talk shit about "sluts," would readily go off on him, but then turn around and excuse it when someone else said the exact same crap if it was "because of their religion." If you believe an opinion is bullshit, then someone's motivation for holding it shouldn't matter, right?

Only... Now that I'm a teacher at a religiously-affiliated college, I read countless papers from students who honestly feel (because their parents and priests and everyone they ever knew said so) like they have no choice but to believe certain things. Kids who don't want to hate gay people or evolution or girls who hook up a lot, but have been told that they have to if they want to be Christians. True, some of these people are just natural bigots who use religion as an excuse, but it's often pretty damn hard to tell the difference.

You can sometimes tell the difference by analyzing *combinations* of opinions, though... For instance, someone who believes in evolution and is pro-choice and never really goes to church and doesn't seem to know jackshit about Christianity, but says he has a problem with gays because of his religion, is probably full of shit.

The first kind of "victims of religion" type kids usually amend their views--and quite happily--once they've been in college for a while and met more level-headed Christians, even some priests, who believe that God created evolution, or that not everything in the Bible is supposed to be taken literally, or point out that Jesus himself never says anything about gays (and spends way more time criticizing violence and greed... hmmm...).

The second kind of kid just becomes an even bigger asshole in a panicked reaction to the presentation of non-asshole options.

P.S. I'm teaching "1984" right now... Is there a better example of Doublethink in the world than the fact that the Republican ethos is built on combining "We're all about Jesus" with "Fuck the Poor?"

[immoderate]

13. Hi Dedalus

I taught 1984. What a great vehicle to demonstrate the depths of literature. I spent some time with the party handbook. Most misunderstood is it's a book for all time, not just for that time.

On religion. It's most often used a license to not think. Those collegians exposed to a more rational experience are the exception.

--IMM

[Killarney]

3. A person's religion only matters if they force it on other people.

n/t

[mmonk]

7. Isn't religion

one of the ways this war has been sold?

[bloom]

10. I think this thread is about taking responsibility for ones own beliefs

whether one is religious or not.

I think a lot of people like to surrender that responsibility - and merge with the group.

So religions use the group-think to sell the war - sell the idea. People want to remain a part of the group so they think they have to believe certain things.

Of course - I think a lot of individual people use religion as an excuse for their own superiority thinking, as well as groups/countries of people.

[mmonk]

11. Yes

religion has done more to dehumanize other people so fighting and killing is made easy.

[noonwitch]

8. You'll go to hell if you pick the wrong one!!!

And, according to South Park, only the Mormons are right.

[sweetheart]

9. No

It can only matter if it is being used by opposition to create
political support (like fundies claiming that "gay" is unnatural
because God says it by omission in the bible) (there is not one
single mention of homosexuality in the bible, but they insert it
between the lines to justify their actions).

Then it pays to be clued in on your opponent's way of thinking so
that you can shoot down unwise choices. Then religion is no longer
religion, but has taken a secular footprint, which is wholly open
to secular criticism. If you want to use theological criticism,
then more power to you, most of these xtians have never read the
bloody bible. Its literature, for peets sake. It helps in
understanding allusions and the mind of the enemy.

[young_at_heart]

14. You're right about Desmond Tutu....great Daily Show!

To answer your question.........no, or at least it shouldn't. If W. is re-elected then the answer will, of course, be,.....yes.