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will work 4 food Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:00 AM
Original message
PUTIN EXPOSES US-UK TERROR STRATEGY BEHIND SCHOOL ATROCITY
What the heck is going on here????? It's a long article, but worth reading!



http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modu...php?storyid=793

PUTIN EXPOSES US-UK TERROR STRATEGY BEHIND SCHOOL ATROCITY; RUSSIAN PRESS BLASTS ANGLO-SAXON TERRORIST CONTROLLERS

By Webster Griffin Tarpley

Washington DC, September 14 -- In the wake of the terrorist atrocity at a school in Beslan, North Ossetia, in the Russian Federation, Russian President Vladimir Putin has made remarks to the western press which expose the key role of the US and British governments in backing Chechen terrorism. Whatever Putin’s previous role in events regarding Chechnya, his current political posture is one which sharply undercuts the legitimacy of the supposed Anglo-American “war on terror,” and which points up the hypocrisy of the Bush regime’s pledge that it will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them -- since Washington and London are currently harboring Chechens implicated in terrorism. All in all, Putin’s response to Chechen events has, with the third anniversary of 9/11, brought the collapse of the official 9/11 myth measurably closer. The hypocritical terror demagogy of Bush and Blair has now been undercut by the head of state of another permanent member of the UN Security Council...
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Chechen rebels are in Washington?
In Bushworld, doesn't that give Putin the right to bomb Washington?
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will work 4 food Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You win
That's the message, isn't it? Doesn't this put us at odds with the Russians? Bush the Bullshitter xposed...
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. better washington dc than san francisco...
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Sorry, Tarpley is a candidate...
... for early Alzheimers diagnosis.

No credibility whatsoever. Tarpley thinks documentation is something his urologist told him about his prostate.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. KMNews: CHECHEN TERROR BOSS ON US STATE DEPARTMENT PAYROLL
KMNews writes: “In early August, ... ‘Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Chechen Republic-Ichkeria’ Ilyas Akhmadov received political asylum in the USA. And for his ‘outstanding services,’ Akhmadov received a Reagan-Fascell grant,” including a monthly stipend, medical insurance, and a well-equipped office with all necessary support services, including the possibility of meetings with political circles and leading U.S. media....“What about our partners in the ‘anti-terrorist coalition,’ who provided asylum, offices and money to Maskhadov’s representatives?” asks the Russian press agency. Citing the official expressions of sympathy and offers of help from President Bush, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and State Department spokesman Richard Boucher, KMNews warns: “But let’s not shed tears of gratitude just yet. First we should ask: were ‘Special Representative of the President of CRI’ Zakayev or ‘Minister of Foreign Affairs of the CRI’ Akhmadov, located in Great Britain and the USA, aware of the terrorist acts that were in preparation? Beyond a doubt…. And let’s also find out, how Akhmadov is spending the money provided by the Reagan-Fascell Foundation. We note: this Foundation is financed by the U.S. Congress through the budget of the State Department! “Thus, the conclusion is obvious. Willingly or not, Downing Street and the White House provoked the guerrillas to these latest attacks. Willingly or not, Great Britain and the USA have nurtured the separatists with material, information and diplomatic resources. Willingly or not, the policy of London and Washington fostered the current terrorist acts.” “As the ancients said, cui bono? Perhaps we are too hasty with such sweeping accusations against our ‘friends’ and ‘partners’? Is there a motive for the Anglo-American ‘anti-terrorist coalition’ to fan the fires of terror in the North Caucasus?” “Alas, there is a motive. It is no secret, that the West is vitally interested in maintaining instability in the Caucasus. That makes it easier to pump out the fossil fuels, extracted in the Caspian region, and it makes it easier to control Georgia and Azerbaijan, and to exert influence on Armenia. Finally, it makes it easier to drive Russia out of the Caspian and the Caucasus. Divide et impera! - the leaders of the Roman Empire already introduced this simple formula for subjugation.”

I wouldn't doubt for a second that it is true. Just look at how the WH has asked Putin to (not) respond. Some interesting comments by Putin that were not covered by the US media:

In Guardian correspondent Jonathan Steele’s account of the meeting with Putin, this is the Russian President’s response to the US and UK on the question of negotiating with the Chechen guerrillas of Aslan Maskhadov: “Why don’t you meet Osama bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace? You find it possible to set some limitations in your dealings with these bastards, so why should we talk to people who are child-killers?” (London Guardian, September 7, 2004)

Here is the fixed link.

http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=793
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. WTF, I guess Dan Rather and the anti Bush media is more of a threat and
story than this. Bush will truely lead us to WWIII if re-stolected.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
6. old news ---------------------------> LINK
more

peace
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Sven77 Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Putin Lashes Out at the U.S.
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/08/002.html

President Vladimir Putin accused the United States of undermining Russia's struggle against terror by meeting with Chechen separatists and rejected calls for a public inquiry into whether authorities mishandled the hostage-taking in Beslan.
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Emillereid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. Now what i Bushco up to? He's not content with messing up the middle east.
now he wants to restart the cold war? We've got to get rid of this madman!
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montana_hazeleyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. G-d!
Here we go again with those old "shelter and place" newsreels from the 50's.
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. A lot of people made a lot of money off the cold war.
Think of the fortune possible for the Carlyle Group if the was a new cold war running concurrently with the war on terra.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. We've got to get rid of this madman!<<
Now why would we want to do that?? He has us "turning the corner" even as we speak!! Idn't he special.... send him back to Texas... no wait.. they don't deserve him either. Just send him.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. link seems broken...n/t
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jdonaldball Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Um, don't we want to have just a BIT of skepticism about
anything Putin says?
How much credibility have Russia or Putin earned over, oh, say, the last thousand years?
Maybe no less credibility than the Bush administration. But certainly no more credibility either.
Let's slow down before we trust anything Putin says, especially if it's a rehash of Russian nationalist propaganda lashing out wildly at foreign "enemies". There are precedents for such propaganda in Russia, to say the least.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. The point isn't whether what Putin says is true or not,
the point is that Putin has singled out Bush and Blair as being liars. Putin has "gone public" with an attack against Bush's fraudulent "war on terror" - as being a fraud. The real point is that Putin feels himself in a position to internationally challenge Caligula on his disingenuous warmongering. The UN comes out and says that the Iraq war is illegal, Blair cuts the British contingent in Iraq to 5000 troops and is planning more reductions, the "coalition of the silly" is evaporating as we speak, and now Putin comes out and says Bush is "playing" everybody. This is going to unravel in the worse bloodbath we have ever seen; and what's to stop it?
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Well said Dhalgren
The case in a nutshell. Thanks.

"We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark. The real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light." - Plato
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
12. HOLY COW! What next? n/t
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. HOLY SHIT?
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. The second phase of the Chechen war was provoked
...by a CIA supported terrorist leader who attacked a neighboring province without provocation.

What Putin says about Anglo-American support for terrorism in the Caucasas is true.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. where to start? (not all parts to do with you)
Edited on Tue Sep-21-04 10:06 AM by Aidoneus
If the Chechens had received even a fraction of the support that is alleged, Shamil would be King of Moscow by now. Such claims are highly overstated, a sort of base propaganda usually originating from sources that I, personally, would not wish to endorse ... but often are, anyway. Akhmadov and Zakayev, two of the tamest voices for the ChRI, are given asylum so as to keep a line of communication open. Both ritually curse Basayev for merely waking up in the morning and haven't a damn thing to do with the activities, and the Russian government should be quite aware of this. Their mere existance, and as the official representatives of the legitimate Chechen government, is a slap in the face that hasn't anything to do with "terrorism" ... but that doesn't stop yet another gang of cynical hypocrites--much like our own in nearly every respect (if more advanced along)--from using this propaganda to advance state policy.

The second stage of the invasion and occupation was planned out long before the Daghestan provocation in 1999, and for that matter, the facts of which are not as you say.

In Daghestan, the situation was and is far more complex than this. The makeup of the province is of no less than three dozen distinct micro-nations, most with their own language and dialect, in a land the size of Scotland with a population of around two million. The economic and political order is of a standard feudalist construction, with a handful of ethnic-based mafia bosses ruling over the great masses of generally impoverished people. Resisting this corrupt order was an idea that cut a swath across the whole order, that of Islam set against the feudalist oligarchy. The idea, contrary to several lines of propaganda, was not so much of religion but a way of breaking through and striking against an unjust order and thus used as convenient means of doing so--that is, the matter was one of economics and the class struggle, just as in Latin America and anywhere else in the world at various points in time.

Free and independent enclaves based on Islamic principles had become established by Daghestanis in the Karamakhi, Chabanmakhi villages, among others. While the established authorities were more interested in shoring up their criminal empires, the Islamic enclaves in fact had become among the safest and most orderly and prospering villages in the province, thus endearing to themselves the fear and resentment of the established order. Much of this had taken place completely independently of events in Chechnya, as distinct intra-Dagestani matters, though this would not remain so. It would more accurately be said that Daghestan had 'destablized' its neighbor, rather than the opposite as is often claimed.

The situation in the Chechen Republic of Ichkeriya (ChRI) at the time was of the natural, and wholly intended, results of deliberate strangulation and isolation. The democratically elected state, generally unrecognized internationally because of undisguised blackmail and threats against any who would do so by the formerly occupying force, struggled to maintain a monopolization of power in the face of their isolated position. Legitimate avenues thus deliberately kept inaccessible by stronger outside forces, illegitimate avenues thrived. Basayev personally drifted somewhere in-between both, though ultimately served the 'good' (and himself, I suppose, though at no point did he materially profit from the variety of situations he had risked his life to place himself in) in occasionally a 'bad' way, and sought a way for the nation to escape this paralysis.

The resistance commander and hero of the 'first' war was, by the way, initially trained by the Russian GRU for the war in Abkhazia to fight the Georgians, and not the CIA. I am not aware of any connections Basayev would have with the CIA. After his role leading the pan-Caucasus volunteers (many of whom are still in his army to this day) in Abkhazia had passed, he then fought on the Azeri side following the Armenian invasion and occupation of Karabakh, then took a short trip east to receive formal military training in Afghanistan before the fighting broke out in his homeland. Unlike the other many commanders, Dudayev and Maskhadov in particular, he did not have a formal Soviet military career before the various Caucasus wars spilled out.

After fighting the Russian occupyers in Afghanistan and Tajikistan since the age of 17, Khattab lived in Abkhazia and Daghestan (marrying a Daghestani woman there) before meeting up with Basayev in the course of the first resistance war. Khattab first gained the attention of the Chechen leadership when he had presided over a battle with a Russian occupation convoy high up in the mountains in April of '96, where this convoy was defeated and completely mauled. He was decorated by the commander of the ChRI Armed Forces, Aslan Maskhadov, and became very close to Basayev: Shamil's father had adopted him to officially make them brothers. It is possible that he had a bad effect on Shamil's personality, but then I imagine that having a dozen members of his family massacred by Russian bombs and the deliberate destruction of his entire country also had a minor, insignifgant role as well.

The Islamic movements in Daghestan had started their political struggle with the state before neighhors had become physically involved (political connections existed). When it was obvious that the local mafia bosses would call in Yeltsin & Russian military power to eliminate their opposition, and of course kill a great many innocent people in the process, they too appealed for outside help: enter Basayev & Khattab. The latter had seen enough first hand just what happens when Russian bombs and artillery shells would connect with villages (the result, of course, being piles of ruined masonry and the stench of burnt flesh), and of course came to the aid of those who had requested it in order to prevent that from happening. That of course isn't what happened.

The "Che Guevaras in turbans", as one commentator had compared them at the time (though neither actually wore turbans: Khattab was very proud of his hair--with good reason--and generally didn't cover it too thoroughly, and Shamil usually wore a military-style black beret-sort of hat...that aside, Che & Fidel were in fact heroes of a younger Shamil in his days as a student and computer-salesman) easily crossed the border and moved in, linking up with their Daghestani friends. While direct battles on the ground were won by the united Daghestani-Chechen forces and many villages fell under the sway of the newly proclaimed Islamic Republic of Dagestan, Russian air force and artillery units blasted away at rebel-held villages, killing people indescriminately and in some cases destroying entire neighborhoods and villages. Georgian & ChRI territory was also bombed in the course of these operations, "by mistake". Eventually, the aerial/artillery assaults became too much for the rebels to withstand, though the war had ebbed and flowed in 3 stages in the course of a few months before the allied forces pulled out. Some suggest that conditions on the ground were misjudged and this had unfavourably affected the campaign. I would say that the vastly superior destructive capability of the firepower of the one side and limited resources of the other, had more to do with it.

Questions like "WHY THE FUCK?" are open to a variety of answers. The plainest version--of situations on the ground developing as they were, with Shamil responding to the call for help from the Daghestanis--is somewhat the view I take, though not entirely. Shamil had not hidden his thoughts on liberating and uniting the entire North Caucasus region like his epic namesake had attempted previously, and would not pass up such an opportunity thrown in his lap. Talks of it being a secret Russian provocation exist--certain channels were used to provoke him into acting, for example a meeting in France with his old GRU contact at the Riveria house of a Saudi arms dealer (who denies it), are alleged. I tend to shy away from conspiracy theories, though I don't claim to be unbiased (obviously). The situation in ChRI was one of a deadlock and stalemate: Russian-imposed isolation was leaving them with little choice between implosion or explosion, and Basayev sought a way to break out of the strangulating isolation and bring forth a more positive future and advance existing goals. The opportunity presenting itself, then not hesitating to jump at it.

That their version of Che in Bolivia didn't end the way they wanted it to is obvious, and an old/new tragic catastrophe had come again as a result. Many great attempts to reshape the world have failed in this last century alone, so many more before it, and they will continue to do so in the future, but with careful reflection and planning those future attempts may benefit from knowledge of the past.

As usual I have a lot more that I could say (including several distinctly different accounts of even minor facets), but for a variety of reasons have not worked them into this. There are many other interpretations, many other allegations of many other conspiracies, many etc.. I have a day ahead of me, and little sleep behind me: the hour I put into this will have to do as it is. :)

The article above...
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=793
...is a real piece of work. The transformation of xenophobic chestpounding and somewhat silly propaganda into opportunistic anti-Bush material is interesting. I remember why I broke very early on with the "ABB" tendency.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Every ethnic group should have it owns country...
...supported by Uncle Sam of course.


http://www.diacritica.com/sobaka/dossier/basayev.html

<It was dubbed by Maskhadov Operation Zero Option. Intended to be nothing more than a raid, hundreds of rebels converged on Grozny in trains, in trucks and on foot, only to watch as Russian resistance crumbled before the initial attack. Abandoned once victory had been pompously declared four months earlier, the garrison was half-starved and practically unarmed; commanders had sold most of their stockpiles off, often to the enemy. In their barracks, with water and electricity shut off, soldiers watched as rebels commandeered APCs and vehicles and the Russian armed forces ordered belated, ineffectual air strikes.

It was left to Aleksandr Lebed - brought into the Yeltsin administration for a few months as "security czar" - to negotiate a surrender. Basayev, bragging to reporters that he had shot down two Russian planes himself, was tactical commander of the operation. He welcomed talks with Lebed. "The general is after all a fighter," he told New York Times journalist Michael Specter in an exclusive interview, "and a fighter knows when he has lost."

Had he stopped there, Basayev may have been remembered in the same light as the first Shamil. Instead, a man with scarcely any formal military training (he served as a firefighter during his Soviet-era military service) found peace difficult to cope with. Running in Chechnya's first election, he was clobbered by his old boss, Aslan Maskhadov. He accepted his elder's generous offer of the post of prime minister, but felt oppressed by the tedium. It was typical, or even congenital, that with his goals accomplished, Basayev began to harbour even greater ambitions. Whether delusion or a supreme act of hubris, he elected to follow in the footsteps of his namesake and invaded, of all places, Dagestan.

The Chechen government did little to stop him, as it had no control over the majority of the country, and Maskhadov himself had become an occasional target for assassination by former subordinates. Basayev's new colleague, one Ibn-ul-Khattab, seems to have engendered an increasingly deleterious effect on his personality. Khattab and Basayev had opened a training camp of some sort in the previous year, and watched as two proud grandpas as their prize recruits followed their lead in a botched operation which threw Chechnya into the breach.

Basayev, in later interviews with the fundamentalist qoqaz.net website, claimed that the volunteers had merely responded in good-hearted Muslim charity to a call for help from the aggrieved citizens of the villages. He gave no indication of why these same villagers took the lead in fighting him. Basayev's volunteer army was easily repelled, though the surrounding villages sustained heavy (and, to this day, largely unrepaired) damage. <snip>


http://www.diacritica.com/sobaka/dossier/khattab.html

<Khattab left home to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan at the age of 17, an exceptionally young age among the foreign volunteers recruited with the CIA's assistance. In Afghanistan he drank curdled milk with Osama bin Laden, traded pogs with Taleban leader Mullah Omar and blew two fingers off when tossing a homemade grenade. Khattab was also distinguished for an exceptional streak of cruelty. Most mujahids would use Soviet prisoners as bargaining chips. Khattab would expedite the process by leaving their corpses near the local base, with their throats ripped out.

Khattab claimed to have fought for the fundamentalists in Tajikistan from 1993-95, when he discovered Chechnya and the great opportunity to kill Russians in their own land.

He posed as a television reporter to get to know people. Along the way he met Shamil Basayev, a famous Chechen commander and the most wanted man in Russia. The latter hasn't been the same ever since. Khattab spurred on Basayev to send a battalion of their homegrown fundamentalist army into the neighbouring Russian province of Dagestan in 1999, a disaster which led to the massive Russian invasion of Chechnya five months later. <snip>


This last bio came from the moscow times, I think, I am unable to link to it now, it requires paid service:

<Abu Walid, who is believed to be about 30 years old, has donned the mantle of Omar Ibn al Khattab, the flamboyant, Saudi-born rebel leader who died in 2002, apparently after being poisoned. Like Khattab, he is said to be second in authority only to Shamil Basayev, a Chechen known for a series of raids and brutal attacks.

An expert in explosives, Abu Walid trained in camps in Afghanistan and fought alongside Muslims in Bosnia before arriving in Chechnya in 1995, according to the FSB. Like Khattab, he is a moneyman for the rebels -- receiving and distributing funds smuggled in from abroad to support the Chechens' fight.

"It's understood that he has money. Since he took over from Khattab, lots of units answer only to him and no one else," said the liaison, who spoke on condition of anonymity.><snip>
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. seen those before
Not sure what you mean by the first comment. If it is as I suspect, you really don't know me..

Sobaka is a wonderful magazine. That aside, I don't adhere strictly to their views all of the time.

Two studies I would particularly recommend for reading up on the subject:--
"Che Guevaras in Turbans" by Georgi M. Derluguian: (I made a reference to this in the earlier work)
http://www.csis.org/ruseura/ponars/workingpapers/016.PDF
"The Dagestan Provocation" by Anssi Kullberg
http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/2003/tsets-5.htm

On the players mentioned. Khattab 'bit it' in 2002, by use of banned chemical weapons--a poisoned letter delivered by a spy. Abu Walid took his place as Basayev's new best friend and deputy. His hair was not as spectacular, and died earlier this year (possibly as a result of the inferior hair, or the mortal wound). To avoid the 'hair' trap, Basayev typically keeps his head shaved (and compensates with several pounds worth of beard from the south end of the face). Chechen commander Ruslan Gelayev also died this winter under strange circumstances (but finally, for real; Sobaka also has a decent bio on him if you are interested).

Between the 3, and throwing in Basayev for good measure, they were reported dead on at least 200 occasions before finally actually dying. Nothing was harmed on the ground by their deaths, however important they were to the struggle and what they had brought to it, and the invaders still bury on average a hundred occupation forces every month. The younger wolves who have seen nothing but death and occupation around them will continue to do so for a generation, even after Basayev and Maskhadov--the two remaining 'big guns'--are buried. The CIA doesn't have a thing to do with that. And that is what there is to look forward to in Iraq, as the Zionist regime also has in Palestine.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-22-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Nothing personal- just a thumbnail of American policy
Edited on Wed Sep-22-04 07:51 PM by teryang
The creation of unstable, untenable and readily manipulated peripheral states is the American policy objective.

No doubt scholars of the obscure ins and outs of Eurasian squabbles can make it appear that "s..t happens" or "as it were" that Silesian Poles attacked Nazi Germany first.

Enjoyed reading the articles. But like you, my prior analytical training finds a bias that leaves me substantially unpersuaded.

Thanks for the links.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Heres a better article on that issue
The republican war criminals really are behind this, but in
a far deeper and more insideous way...:

Ex-Security Chief Brzezinski's Interview makes clear:
The Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US Intelligence as a Geopolitical Weapon

Le Nouvel Observateur's Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
Published 15-21 January 1998
Translated by Jean Martineau

I. Comment: The US & European States are still using Brzezinski's Muslim terrorist strategy!
by Jared Israel

II. Interview with Brzezinski





http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oil Pipelines.
Isn't that what this is about?
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. no, its about the 6 billion americans spent to
create the very islamic extremists who we now claim to be fighting.
It shows a systematic crime in the american military-government that
has supported islamic terrorism, and gotten away with it thus far
as the american people are as usual totally duped.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. It shows a systematic crime in the american military-government
thathas supported islamic terrorism,<<

Uhhhhhh, is that why they hate us? Seems a more plausible explanation than "cuz we're free".
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
18. It is hard to fathom the damage Bush has done in four years.
I wonder if his goal was to restart the cold war. Helps all those defense contractors (here is where GE aka NBC comes in).
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
22. Link isn't working for me.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-21-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Here's the fixed link:
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