Something that I haven't seen discussed in the media...

[caduceus]

regarding our troops in Iraq.

Although the death rate of soldiers in Iraq has been steady, averaging one per day, the attrition rate of the military in general must be far greater than that. Every time another report of a soldier being killed in Iraq appears, it almost always includes information on additional soldiers being injured. In some cases, it includes three, four, or more soldiers seriously injured. Most of these soldiers are sent to hospitals and then home. And there doesn’t seem to be any reports of the number of soldiers injured when there are no soldiers killed. The attrition rate for the actual number of soldiers in Iraq could be three, five, or more per day.

How long can the military maintain such a high attrition rate?

[ComerPerro]

1. Thats a really good point

I think a lot of people (like me) didn't consider this.
Usually I would hear "One killed, two injured". Then, when I would only hear "Three injured" I wouldn't give it as much thought, because I would be happy no one was killed.

But this is a very good point that you raise. We are more likely losing 2 or 3 soldiers a day, counting those who are sent home for injuries.

[leftofthedial]

2. well, there are replacements

so the attrition rate is not really 4 or 5 a day.

If it were, they could last another two years and maintain some level of (in)effectiveness.

[caduceus]

6. Replacements?

In Viet Nam, there were replacements, because there was a draft. Now-a-days, there is no draft, so the military consists of a relatively fixed number (probably falling due to poor recruiting and low number of soldiers re-signing up).

If the Pentagon orders troops from one area (the states for example) to "replace" those lost (sent home or died in Iraq), who "replaces" them?

[leftofthedial]

11. they have sent new units (technically reinforcements)

new recruits join the military every day and graduate from basic training every day, draft or no draft.

The current attrition rate is an awful waste of lives. I think every death is a murder and the blood is on the hands of everyone in the Bush/PNAC Cabal. However, the math shows that the force that is there can withstand the current rate of attrition for a couple of years with little appreciable effect on their ability to complete their mission.

The attrition rate has a much larger effect on the nation's political resolve to allow PNAC and Halliburton to keep their Iraq franchise open at our expense.

[RedEarth]

3. I think I heard..

where the number of injured US troops is in the neighbor of 1200-1300. From what I understand, the injury rate is "normally"(whatever the .... that means) 5 times higher than those killed.

The attrition rate the military should also be concerned about is the number of troops who will not be re-upping, and, also the drop-off of new recruits. This fiasco we have gotten ourselves into in Iraq certainly is bound to convince some people this administration is not worth dying for.

[searchingforlight]

4. Also, do they report the deaths of the injured who die on the way to

or in hospital? I have always wondered what those numbers are and whether they get put into the total.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. As I understand it, they are not part of the KIA numbers being reported.

Just like unemployment numbers.

[nostamj]

7. they don't report the severity either

they might say "the wounds were not life-threatening" but fail to mention that the solider lost both legs, an arm, his sight and a portion of the brain. just that the wounds were not "life-threatening"

we really have no idea how many are dealing with devastating injuries.

[Qutzupalotl]

8. ABC mentioned "suicides" last night,

lumping them in with the deaths by accident, etc., after we passed that milestone yesterday. Just one word, but it's a powerful one. Will get people thinking that things are *really* bad over there.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

9. Yesterday, there was a thread posted...

About the losses on March 23 at Nasiriya (A Deadly Day for Charlie Company) in which I posted some info from CNN about the soldiers who lost their lives that day.

If you read that post, you will see that in the article about that day they say that 18 men lost their lives, but I was only able to find 17 listed on the CNN site (which is updated daily supposedly).

However, even if you ignore that discrepancy as some sort of error, there is something that stands out - 14 of the 17 men I found listed who died on that day were ranked Lance Corporal and above, including a Lieuteneant.

This is important for two reasons:

1) As these ranks are fewer than Privates (ie one NCO and 4 Privates per 5 men) this seems to be a highly biased number - there should be more Privates in the list, unless these NCOs and the officer took extraordinary risks.

2) NCO's are the core of the experience of a formation - it doesn't take that long to train a Private, but a Staff Sergeant or Sergeant represents years of experience in the forces. The loss of a single Sergeant can do far more damage to a platoon than the loss of two or three Privates (I know how that sounds, but it is still true).

It seems to me, that this list alone represents real trouble for the US military - either the numbers are being massaged and in this case badly, or the experienced lifers are being killed (and presumably injured) at higher rates than the relatively inexperienced troops they command.

If the latter is true, they can't be replaced simply by recruiting more fresh soldiers, and this can lead to the casualty rates increasing as more and more inexperienced soldiers are forced to take the place of lost NCO's and officers.

[searchingforlight]

10. Do you think we can try to compile a list of our own?

Send out e-mail to all of our contacts asking them to check with their contacts. Get in touch with state agencies and get lists. Start a list of names and see where it goes.

[zbdent]

13. Well, here's a huge list of the dead:

as of August 25, straight from the Department of Defense website (painstakingly compiled by yours truly). Please note the asterisked area, which deals with the group surrounding Jessica Lynch.

270 US Soldiers dead in "Operation Iraqi Freedom" as of 8/25/2003 may be 271

20030823 - Army SPC Scott, Stephen M., Lawton Oklahoma, died of non-combat injuries in Baghdad Iraq
20030823 - Army PFC Mack, Vorn J., Orangeburg South Carolina, apparently drowned during a swim west of Ar Ramadi Iraq
20030821 - Army PFC Adams, Michael S., Spartanburg South Carolina, died of injuries from a fire ignited by ricochet in Baghdad Iraq
20030821 - Navy LT Jones-Huffman, Kylan A., Aptos California, killed by unidentified gunman in Al Hillah Iraq
20030820 - Army Staff SGT Franklin, Bobby C., Mineral Bluff Georgia, died of injuries from an explosive device in Baghdad Iraq
20030820 - Army SGT Harris, Kenneth W. Jr., Charlotte Tennessee, died of injuries suffered in two-vehicle accident in Scania Iraq
20030818 - Army SPC Hull, Eric R., Uniontown Pennsylvania, died of injuries suffered when vehicle hit an explosive device in Baghdad Iraq
20030814 - Army PFC Kirchhoff, David M., Cedar Rapids Iowa, died after a non-hostile injury (on 8/8) in Landstuhl Germany (Operation Iraqi Freedom?)
20030813 - Army SGT White, Steven W., Lawton Oklahoma, died of injuries after armored personnel carrier hit an antitank mine in Tikrit Iraq
20030812 - Army SGT Williams, Taft V., New Orleans Louisiana, died of injuries when vehicle hit an explosive device near Ar Ramadi Iraq
20030812 - Army PFC Brown, Timmy R. Jr., Conway Pennsylvania, died of injuries from an explosive device in Taji Iraq
20030812 - Army PFC Parker, Daniel R., Lake Elsinore California, died when thrown from vehicle while driver swerved to avoid oncoming vehicle in Mosul Iraq
20030812 - Army Staff SGT Eaton, Richard S. Jr., Guilford Connecticutt, died apparently in sleep in Ramadi Iraq
20030810 - Army Staff SGT Perry, David S., Bakersfield California, died of injuries from an exploding package in Baquabah Iraq
20030809 - Army SPC Kinchen, Levi B., Tickfaw Louisiana, died apparently in sleep in Baghdad Iraq
20030809 - Army SGT Knighten, Floyd G. Jr., Olla Louisiana, died of non-combat related cause while in convoy from Camp Bilad to Camp Pennsylvania Iraq
20030808 - Army PFC Ramsey, Brandon, Calumet City Illinois, died in vehicle rollover in pursuit of suspicious vehicle in Tallil Iraq
20030808 - Army PVT Bush, Matthew D., East Alton Illinois, died apparently in sleep in Baghdad Iraq
20030807 - Army PFC Longstreth, Duane E., Tacoma Washington, died of non-combat related injuries in Baghdad Iraq
20030806 - Army SGT Simmons, Leonard D., New Bern North Carolina, died of non-combat related cause in Mosul Iraq
20030806 - Army PVT Gilbert, Kyle C., Brattleboro Vermont, died in ambush in Baghdad Iraq
20030806 - Army Staff SGT Hellerman, Brian R., Freeport Minnesota, died from wounds suffered in ambush in Baghdad Iraq
20030806 - Army SPC Colunga, Zeferino E., Bellville Texas, died in Germany after being evacuated fom Iraq due to illness
20030805 - Army SPC Letufuga, Farao K., Pago Pago American Samoa, died from fall from building where performing guard duty in Mosul Iraq
20030805 - Army Staff SGT Loyd, David L., Jackson Tennessee, died in Kuwait after experiencing severe chest pains while on mission
20030801 - Army SPC Hebert, Justin W., Arlington Washington, died when vehicle was struck by RPG in Kirkuk Iraq
20030731 - Army PVT Deutsch, Michael J., Dubuque Iowa, died when vehicle struck by explosive device in Baghdad Iraq
20030731 - Army SPC Lambert, James I. III, Raleigh North Carolina, struck by stray celebratory bullet in Baghdad Iraq
20030730 - Army 1st Lt. Nott, Leif E., Cheyenne Wyoming, died of wounds received from hostile fire in Belaruz Iraq
20030728 - Army SGT Hart, Nathaniel Jr., Valdosta Georgia, died of injuries received when vehicle went off road and rolled over in Tillil Iraq
20030728 - Army SPC Maher, William J., Yardley Pennsylvania, died of injuries after improvised explosive device detonated in Baghdad Iraq
20030727 - Army SGT McMillin, Heath A., Canandaigua New York, killed during RPG and small arms fire attack south of Baghdad Iraq
20030726 - Army PFC Cheatham, Jonathan M., Camden Arkansas, killed in RPG attack on convoy in Baghdad Iraq
20030726 - Army SGT Methvin, Daniel K., Belton Texas, killed by grenade thrown from the window of a civilian hospital he was guarding in Baghdad Iraq
20030726 - Army SPC Barnes, Jonathan P., Anderson Missouri, killed by grenade thrown from the window of a civilian hospital he was guarding in Baghdad Iraq
20030726 - Army PFC Perez, Wilfredo Jr., Norwalk Connecticutt, killed by grenade thrown from the window of a civilian hospital he was guarding in Baghdad Iraq
20030724 - Army SGT Serrano, Juan M., Manati Puerto Rico, died when vehicle he was changing the tire on fell in Baghdad Iraq
20030724 - Army CPL Ashcraft, Evan Asa, West Hills California, killed when convoy came under enemy fire north of Al Hawd Iraq
20030724 - Army PFC Heighter, Raheen tyson, Bay Shore New York, killed when convoy came under enemy fire north of Al Hawd Iraq
20030724 - Army Staff SGT Perez, Hector R., Corpus Christi Texas, killed when convoy came under enemy fire north of Al Hawd Iraq
20030723 - Army Capt. Byers, Joshua T., Nevada, killed in action when convoy hit an explosive device in Baghdad Iraq
20030723 - Army SPC Christian, Brett T., North Royalton Ohio, killed when convoy came under attack by RPGs in Mosul Iraq
20030722 - Army SPC Fettig, Jon P., Dickinson North Dakota, killed when his truck was hit by an RPG outside Ar Ramadi Iraq
20030721 - Army CPL Bibby, Mark A., Watha North Carolina, killed when device exploded in his convoy in Baghdad Iraq
20030720 - Army SGT 1st Class Willoughby, Christopher R., Phenix City Alabama, died in vehicle rollover in Baghdad Iraq
20030720 - Army SGT Jordan, Jason D., Elba Alabama, died when vehicle was ambushed by RPGs in Tallifar Iraq
20030720 - Army SGT Garvey, Justin W., Townsend Massachusettes, killed in RPG ambush on his vehicle in Tallifar Iraq
20030719 - Army Second Lt. Rozier, Jonathan D., Katy Texas, died in RPG attack while providing security at a municipal building in Baghdad Iraq
20030718 - Army SPC Bertoldie, Joel L., Independence Missouri, died after being thrown from vehicle after an explosion underneath in Fallujah Iraq
20030717 - Army SGT Whetstone, Mason Douglas, Utah, died of non-combat related injuries in Baghdad Iraq
20030717 - Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Moreno, David J., Gering Nebraska, killed from a non-hostile gunshot wound in Al Hamishiyah Iraq
20030716 - Army SPC Torres, Ramon Reyes, Caguas Puerto Rico, killed while seeking cover from passing truck with command detonated device in Baghdad Iraq
20030715 - Marine Lance CPL Geurin, Cory Ryan, Santee California, died after fall from palace roof in Babylon Iraq
20030714 - Army SGT Crockett, Michael T., Soperton Georgia, killed in RPG attack while on patrol in Baghdad Iraq
20030713 - Army SGT Puello-Coronado, Jaror C., Pocono Summit Pennsylvania, died of injuries after dump truck struck him in Camp Edson iraq
20030713 - Army CPT Cassidy, Paul J., Laingsburg Michigan, died from non-combat injuries in Camp Babylon Iraq
20030712 - Army SPC Neusche, Joshua M., Montreal Missouri, non-combat related cause in Homburg Hospital Germany (supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom)
20030711 - Army SPC Schulz, Christian C., Colleyville Texas, died of non-combat injuries in Baqubah Iraq
20030709 - Marine Lance CPL Tetrault, Jason Andrew, Moreno Valley California, killed in a vehicle accident in Kuwait
20030709 - Army SGT Rowe, Roger D., Bon Aqua Tennessee, killed by sniper attack in Iraq
20030709 - Army SGT 1st Class Gabrielson, Dan H., Spooner Wisconsin, killed by hostile fire against his convoy in Ba Qubah Iraq
20030709 - Army SGT Valles, Melissa, Eagle Pass Texas, died from non-combat related injuries in Balad Iraq
20030708 - Army SGT 1st Class Boling, Craig A., Elkhart Indiana, non-combat related death in Camp Wolf Kuwait
20030708 - Army PVT McKinley, Robert L., Kokomo Indiana, non-combat related death in Homberg Germany (supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom)
20030707 - Army Staff SGT Sanford, Barry Sr., Aurora Colorado, non-combat related death in Balad Iraq
20030707 - Army SPC Keith, Chad L., Batesville Indiana, died when object exploded near his vehicle in Baghdad Iraq
20030706 - Army SGT Parson, David B., Kannapolis North Carolina, shot and killed while conducting raid on house in Baghdad Iraq
20030706 - Army SPC Wershow, Jeffrey M., Gainesville Florida, shot and killed while conducting military operations in Baghdad Iraq
20030703 - Army PFC Herrgott, Edward Jl, Shakopee Minnesota, died from a gunshot wound while on patrol in Baghdad Iraq
20030703 - Army PFC Small, Corey L., East Berlin Pennsylvania, non-combat related death in Iraq
20030702 - Marine CPL Bradachnal, Travis J., Multnomah County Oregon, killed in explosion during a mine clearing operation near Karbala Iraq
20030701 - Army 1st SGT Coffin, Christopher D., Bethlehem Pennsylvania, died when vehicle ran into a ditch avoiding a civilian vehicle on Highway 8 in Iraq
20030628 - Army SGT Conneway, Timothy M., Enterprise Alabama, died from injuries after explosive device detonated near his vehicle 6/26/2003 in Baghdad Iraq
20030627 - Army CPL Sotelo, Tomas Jr., Houston Texas, killed when RPG struck his vehicle in Baghdad Iraq
20030626 - Army SPC Hubbell, Corey A., Urbana Illinois, non-combat related death in Camden Yards Kuwait
20030626 - Army SPC Orengo, Richard P., Puerto Rico, died of shot wound in An Najif Iraq
20030625 - Army SGT 1st Class Philippe, Gladimir, Linden New Jersey, killed south of Balad Iraq
20030625 - Army PFV Ott, Kevin C., Columbus Ohio, killed south of Balad Iraq
20030625 - Marine Lance CPL MacDonald, Gregory E., Washington DC, killed when light armored vehicle rolled over in Iraq
20030625 - Army SPC Chris, Andrew F., California, killed in combat operations in Iraq
20030624 - Army SPC Lennon, Cedric L., West Blocton Alabama, non-combat related death in Baghdad Iraq
20030622 - Army SPC Smith, Orential J., Allendale South Carolina, killed in convoy that was ambushed by small arms fire in Baghdad Iraq
20030619 - Army SPC Nakamura, Paul T., Santa Fe Springs California, vehicle hit by RPG in Al Iskandariyah Iraq
20030618 - Army Staff SGT Latham, William T., Kingman Arizona, died of wounds suffered in raid in Ar Ramadi on 5/19/2003
20030618 - Army PFC Deuel, Michael R., Nemo South Dakota, shot while on guard duty in Baghdad at propane distribution center
20030617 - Army SGT Tosto, Michael L., Apex North Carolina, died of non-combat related cause at Camp Wolf Kuwait
20030617 - Army PVT Frantz, Robert L., San Antonio Texas, grenade attack while on guard duty in Baghdad
20030616 - Army SPC Suell, Joseph D., Lufkin Texas, non-combat related death in Todjie (accident?)
20030616 - Army PVT Pahnke, Shawn D., Shelbyville Indiana, sniper hit in Baghdad
20030615 - Marine PFC Cox, Ryan R., Derby Kansas, non-combat weapon discharge in An Najaf (accident?)
20030613 - Army Staff SGT Pokorny, Andrew R., Naperville Illinois, vehicle rollover in Al Asad (accident)
20030612 - Army SPC Klinesmith, John K. Jr., Stockbridge Georgia, drowned (maybe) in lake in Al Fallujah (accident?)
20030610 - Army PFC Neighbor, Gavin L., Somerset Ohio, RPG attack in Baghdad
20030608 - Army SGT Dooley, Michael E., Pulaski Virginia, checkpoint attack in Al Asad
20030607 - Army PVT Halling, Jesse M., Indianapolis Indiana, RPG attack in Tikrit
20030606 - Army SGT Burkhardt, Travis L., Edina Missouri, vehicle rollover in Baghdad (accident)
20030606 - Navy Petty Officer Third Class Bollinger, Doyle W. Jr., Poteau Oklahoma, ordnance explosion in Iraq (accident)
20030605 - Army PFC Oberleitner, Branden F., Worthington Ohio, RPG attack in Al Fallujah
20030603 - Army SGT Haromarin, Atanacio, Baldwin Park California, RPG attack at checkpoint in Balad
20030601 - Marine SGT Lambert, Jonathan W., Newsite Mississippi, vehicle rollover in Iraq (accident)
20030530 - Army SPC Long, Zacharia W., Milton Pennsylvania, convoy accident Mosul to Tikrit (accident)
20030530 - Army SPC Gleason, Michael T,Warren Pennsylvania, convoy accident Mosul to Tikrit (accident)
20030530 - Army SPC Griffin, Kyle A., Emerson New Jersey, convoy accident Mosul to Tikrit (accident)
20030528 - Army Staff SGT Bradley, Kenneth R., Utica Mississippi, non-combat in Baqubah (accident)
20030528 - Army SPC Perez, Jose A. III, San Diego Texas, Convoy ambush
20030527 - Army Staff SGT Quinn, Michael B., Tampa Florida, checkpoint attack in Al-Fallujah
20030527 - Army SGT Broomhead, Thomas F., Cannon City Colorado, checkpoint attack in Al-Fallujah
20030526 - Army SGT Mitchell, Keman L., Hilliard Florida, drowned in Kirkuk (accident)
20030526 - Army PFC Smith, Jeremiah D., Odessa Missouri, vehicle hits land mine in Baghdad
20030526 - Army Staff SGT Petriken, Brett J., Michigan, vehicle accident in Samawah (accident)
20030526 - Army PVT Nalley, Kenneth A., Hamburg Iowa, vehicle accident in Samawah (accident)
20030526 - Army Major Schram, Mathew E., Wisconsin, military convoy attack in Hadithah
20030525 - Army PVT Evans, David Jr., Buffalo New York, ammunitions facility explosion in Diwaniyah
20030521 - Army SPC Caldwell, Nathaniel A., Omaha Nebraska, vehicle rollover (accident) in Baghdad
20030519 - Marine Captain LaMont, Andrew David, Eureka California, Helicopter crash in Shatt Al Hillah Canal (accident)
20030519 - Marine Lance Corporal Moore, Jason William, San Marcos California, Helicopter crash in Shatt Al Hillah Canal (accident)
20030519 - Marine First Lt Ryan, Timothy Louis, Aurora Illinois, Helicopter crash in Shatt Al Hillah Canal (accident)
20030519 - Marine Staff SGT White, Aaron Dean, Shawnee Oklahoma, Helicopter crash in Shatt Al Hillah Canal (accident)
20030519 - Marine SGT Straseskie, Kirk Allen, Beaver Dam Wisconsin, drowned while rescuing copter crew (accident) Al Hillah
20030519 - Army Lt. COL Baragona, Dominic R., Ohio, vehicle collision in Iraq
20030518 - Marine CPL Marencoreyes, Douglas Jose, Chino California, vehicle rollover (accident) southeast of Al Samawah
20030518 - Army SPC Sahib, Rasheed, Brooklyn New York, other soldier's weapon discharged while cleaning gun in Balad
20030516 - Army Master SGT Payne, William L., Michigan, ordnance exploded during examination in Haswah
20030514 - Army SPC Nutt, David T., Blackshear Georgia, vehicle overturned in Mosul (accident)
20030513 - Marine Lance CPL Kleiboeker, Nicholas Brian, Irvington Illinois, munitions bunker explosion near Al Hillah (accident?)
20030513 - Air Force Staff SGT Griffin, Patrick Lee, Elgin South Carolina, KIA in ambush near Diwaniyah
20030512 - Marine Lance CPL Kowalik, Jakub Henryk, Schaumburg Illinois, ordnance explosion in Iraq (accident?)
20030512 - Marine PFC Rodriguez, Jose Franci Gonzalez, Norwalk California, ordnance explosion in Iraq (accident?)
20030510 - Marine Lance CPL Smith, Matthew R., Anderson Indiana, non-hostile vehicle accident in Kuwait (accident)
20030509 - Marine Bruns, Cedric E., Vancouver Washington, non-hostile vehicle accident in Kuwait (accident)
20030509 - Army Chief Warrant Officer Van Dusen, Brian K., Columbus Ohio, helicopter crash into Tigris river near Samarrah (accident)
20030509 - Army Chief Warrant Officer Gukeisen, Hans N., Lead South Dakota, helicopter crash into Tigris river near Samarrah (accident)
20030509 - Army CPL Carl, Richard P., King Hill Idaho, helicopter crash into Tigris river near Samarrah (accident)
20030508 - Army PFC Rockhold, Marlin T., Hamilton Ohio, sniper kill while directing traffic in Iraq
20030503 - Army SGT Reynolds, Sean C., East Lansing Michigan, rifle discharges when he fell in Iraq (accident)
20030501 - Army PFC Givens, Jesse A., Springfield Missouri, tank fell in Euphrates River near Al Habbaniyah when riverbank gave way (accident)
20030428 - Army 1st SGT Garza, Joe J., Robstown Texas, struck by civilian vehicle after falling out of HMMWV in Baghdad (accident)
20030425 - Army SPC Sullivan, Narson B., North Brunswick New Jersey, non-combat weapon discharge in Iraq (accident?)
20030425 - Army 1st Lt Orozco, Osbaldo, Delano California, vehicle rollover in Iraq (accident?)
20030422 - Marine Chief Warrant Officer Arnold, Andrew Todd, Spring Texas, killed when grenade launcher malfunction near Al Kut (accident)
20030422 - Marine Chief Warrant Officer Channell, Robert William Jr., Tuscaloosa Alabama, killed when grenade launcher malfunction near Al Kut (accident)
20030422 - Marine Lance CPL Lam, Alan Dinh, Snow Camp North Carolina, killed when grenade launcher malfunction near Al Kut (accident)
20030422 - Army SPC Buckley, Roy Russell, Portage Indiana, died after fall from truck trailer in Iraq (accident)
20030419 - Army SGT Jenkins, Troy David, Ridgecrest California, wounded in explosion during patrol (died 4/24/2003)
20030417 - Army CPL Rivero, John T., Tampa Florida, vehicle rollover in Kuwait (accident?)
20030414 - Army SPC Foley, Thomas A. III, Dresden Tennessee, grenade explosion in HMMWV in Iraq
20030414 - Army PFC Brown, John E., Troy Alabama, grenade explosion in HMMWV in Iraq
20030414 - Army PFC Mayek, Joseph P., Rock Springs Wyoming, friendly fire (?) in Iraq
20030414 - Marine CPL Mileo, Jason David, Centreville Maryland, mistaken for enemy soldier near Baghdad
20030414 - Army SPC Goward, Richard A., Midland Michigan, vehicle accident - rear-ended truck in front of him in dust cloud in Iraq (accident)
20030413 - Army SPC Mercado, Gil, Paterson New Jersey, non-combat weapon discharge in Iraq
20030412 - Marine CPL Gonzalez, Jesus A., Indio California, killed while manning a checkpoint in Baghdad
20030411 - Marine Staff SGT Tejeda, Riayan A., New York New York, killed in action in northeast Baghdad
20030410 - Marine Gunnery SGT Bohr, Jeffrey E. Jr., Ossian Iowa, killed in action in Northern Baghdad
20030410 - Army Staff SGT Hemingway, Terry W., Willingboro New Jersey, killed after car exploded next to his vehicle in Iraq
20030408 - Army Staff SGT Stever, Robert A., Pendleton Oregon, killed by enemy fire in Iraq
20030408 - Army PFC Meyer, Jason M., Swartz Creek Michigan, killed in action in Iraq
20030408 - Army SGT 1st Class Marshall, John W., Los Angeles California, RPG attack during enemy ambush in Baghdad Iraq
20030408 - Marine PFC Garza, Juan Guadalupe Jr., Temperance Michigan, killed in action in central Iraq
20030408 - Army CPL Brown, Henry L., Natchez Mississippi, died from wounds from enemy rocket attack 4/7 south of Baghdad Iraq
20030408 - Air Force Staff SGT Sather, Scott D., Clio Michigan, killed in action in Iraq
20030407 - Marine Lance CPL Aviles, Andrew Julian, Palm Beach Florida, artillery round hit vehicle in central Iraq
20030407 - Marine CPL Medellin, Jesus Martin Antonio, Fort Worth Texas, artillery round hit vehicle in central Iraq
20030407 - Army SPC Mitchell, George A., Rawlings Maryland, wounds from enemy rocket attack south of Baghdad Iraq
20030407 - Air Force Major Watkins, William R. III, Danville Virginia, F-15E downed during combat mission in Iraq
20030407 - Air Force Captain Das, Eric B., not stated, F-15E downed during combat mission in Iraq
20030407 - Army 2nd LT Kaylor, Jeffrey J., Clifton Virginia, killed in Iraq
20030407 - Army PFC Miller, Anthony S., San Antonio Texas, killed by indirect enemy fire in Iraq
20030407 - Army Staff SGT Hollinsaid, Lincoln D., Malden Illinois, killed by enemy fire in Iraq
20030406 - Army PFC Huxley, Gregory P. Jr., Forestport New York, killed by enemy fire in Iraq
20030406 - Army PVT Prewitt, Kelley S., Alabama, killed in action by enemy fire in Iraq
20030405 - Army Staff SGT Booker, Stevon A., Apollo Pennsylvania, killed by enemy fire in during raid into Baghdad Iraq
20030405 - Army SPC Brown, Larry K., Jackson Mississippi, killed in action in Iraq
20030405 - Marine 1st SGT Smith, Edward, Chicago Illinois, died in Doha Qatar from wounds suffered in action in central Iraq 4/4
20030405 - Eight other soldiers' remains recovered at the time of Lynch's rescue: Sgt. George E. Buggs, 31, of Barnwell, S.C.; Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38, of Cleveland, Ohio; Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, 18, of El Paso, Texas; Spc. James M. Kiehl, 22, of Comfort, Texas; Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, 35, of Amarillo, Texas; Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, 23, of Tuba City, Ariz.; Pvt. Brandon U. Sloan, 19, of Cleveland, Ohio; and Sgt. Donald R. Walters, 33, of Kansas City, Mo
20030404 - Marine Capt. Ford, Travis A., Ogallala Nebraska, helicopter crash during combat near Ali Aziziyal Iraq
20030404 - Marine CPL Gooden, Bernard G., Mt. Vernon New York, killed during firefight in central Iraq
20030404 - Marine 1st Lt. McPhillips, Brian M., Pembroke Massachusettes, killed during firefight in central Iraq
20030404 - Marine SGT Rios, Duane R., Hammond Indiana, killed during firefight in central Iraq
20030404 - Army Capt. Aitken, Tristan N., State College Pennsylvania, killed in action in Iraq
20030404 - Army PFC Bellard, Wilfred D., Lake Charles Louisiana, killed when vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq
20030404 - Army SPC Cunningham, Daniel Francis J., Lewiston Maine, killed when vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq
20030404 - Army PVT Jones, Devon D., San Diego California, killed when vehicle fell into a ravine in Iraq
20030404 - Army SGT 1st Class Smith, Paul R., Tampa Florida, killed in action in Iraq
20030404 - Marine Capt. Sammis, Benjamin W., Rehobeth Massachusetts, helicopter crash during combat near Ali Aziziyal Iraq
20030403 - Army Staff SGT Livaudais, Nino D., Utah, died as result of severe injuries in Iraq
20030403 - Army SPC Long, Ryan P., Seaford Delaware, died as result of severe injuries in Iraq
20030403 - Army Capt. Rippetoe, Russell B., Colorado, died as result of severe injuries in Iraq
20030403 - Army SPC Oaks, Donald S. Jr., Erie Pennsylvania, killed in action in Iraq
20030403 - Army SGT 1st Class Rehn, Randall S., Longmont Colorado, killed in action in Iraq
20030403 - Army Sgt Robbins, Todd J., Pentwater Michigan, killed in action in Iraq
20030403 - Marine PFC Bales, Chad E., Coahoma Texas, non-hostile vehicle accident east of Ash Shahin Iraq
20030403 - Marine CPL Evnin, Mark A., Burlington Vermont, killed during a firefight in central Iraq
20030403 - Marine CPL Silva, Erik H., Chula Vista California, killed in action in Iraq
20030403 - Army Staff SGT Davis, Wilbert, Alaska, vehicle ran off road into canal in Iraq
20030403 - Army Capt. Korn, Edward J., Savannah Georgia, killed while investigating Iraqi tank wreckage in central Iraq
20030402 - Army Master SGT Fernandez, George A., El Paso Texas, shot in northern Iraq
20030402 - Marine Lance CPL Anderson, Brian E., Durham North Carolina, non-hostile vehicle accident involving power lines west of An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030402 - Marine PFC Gurtner, Christian D., Ohio City Ohio, non-combat weapons discharge in southern Iraq
20030402 - Capt. Adamouski, James F., Springfield Virginia, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - SPC Boule, Mathew G., Dracut Massachusettes, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - Chief Warrant Officer Halvorsen, Erik A., Bennington Vermont, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - Chief Warrant Officer Jamar, Scott, Granbury Texas, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - SGT Pederson, Michael F., Flint Michigan, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - Chief Warrant Officer Smith, Eric A., California, killed when Black Hawk helicopter crashed in central Iraq
20030402 - Navy LT. White, Nathan D., Mesa Arizona, killed in action pilot lost over Iraq
20030401 - Marine Lance CPL Maglione, Joseph B., Lansdale Pennsylvania, non-combat weapon discharge at Camp Coyote Kuwait
20030401 - Army SGT Butler, Jacob L., Wellsville Kansas, killed in action when RPG hit his vehicle in Assamawah Iraq
20030331 - Army SPC Rowe, Brandon J., Roscoe Illinois, killed in action by enemy artillery in Ayyub Iraq
20030331 - Army SPC Jeffries, William A., Evansville Illinois, died in Rota Spain after being evacuated from Kuwait after sudden illness
20030330 - Marine SGT Lalush, Michael V., Troutville Virginia, helicopter crash in southern Iraq
20030330 - Marine Capt. Contreras, Aaron J., Sherwood Oregon, helicopter crash in southern Iraq
20030330 - Marine SGT McGinnis, Brian D., St. George Delaware, helicopter crash in southern Iraq
20030329 - Marine Staff SGT Cawley, James W., Roy Utah, killed in firefight with enemy forces in Iraq
20030329 - Marine Lance CPL White, William W., Brooklyn New York, killed in non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq
20030329 - Army PFC Weldon, Michael Russel Creighton, Palm Bay Florida, killed in car-bomb incident in Iraq
20030329 - Army CPL Curtin, Michael Edward, Howell New Jersey, killed in car-bomb incident in Iraq
20030329 - Army PFC Rincon, Diego Fernando, Conyers Georgia, killed in car-bomb incident in Iraq
20030329 - Army SGT Williams, Eugene, Highland New York, killed in car-bomb incident in Iraq
20030328 - Army SGT Solomon, Roderic A., Fayetteville North Carolina, vehicle rolled off cliff in non-hostile accident in Iraq
20030328 - Marine SGT Padilla-Ramirez, Fernando, San Luis Arizona, killed in action on or after 3/28 near Al Nasiriyah Iraq
20030327 - Marine Gunnery SGT Menusa, Joseph, San Jose California, killed in action in Iraq
20030327 - Marine Lance CPL Suarez Del Solar, Jesus A., Escondido California, killed in action in Iraq
20030327 - Marine CPL Rodriguez, Robert M., Queens New York, tank fell into Euphrates river during combat operations northwest of An Nasiriyah
20030326 - Marine Major Nave, Kevin G., Union Lake Michigan, non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq
20030325 - Air National Guard Maj. Stone, Gregory, Boise Idaho, died from wounds in tent grenade attack from 20030322 in Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait
20030325 - Marine Hospital Corpsman Third Class Johnson, Michael Vann Jr., Little Rock Arkansas, killed in action in Iraq
20030325 - Marine Staff SGT May, Donald C. Jr., Richmond Virginia, killed during convoy operations near Euphrates River in Iraq
20030325 - Marine Lance CPL O'Day, Patrick T., Sonoma California, killed during convoy operations near Euphrates River in Iraq
20030325 - Marine PFC MartinezFlores, Francisco A., Los Angeles California, killed during convoy operations near Euphrates River in Iraq
20030324 - Army SPC Sanders, Gregory P., Indiana, killed in action in Iraq
20030324 - Marine SGT Korthaus, Bradley S., Scott Iowa, killed in action in vicinity of Saddam Canal in Iraq
20030324 - Marine Lance CPL Blair, Thomas A., Wagoner Oklahoma, killed while engaged in operations outside An Nasiriyah in Iraq
20030324 - Marine Lance CPL Orlowski, Eric J., Buffalo New York, accidental discharge of .50 caliber machine gun in Iraq
20030324 - Marine SGT Hodson, Nicolas M., Smithville Missouri, killed in a vehicle accident in Iraq
20030323 - Army SPC Addison, Jamaal R., Roswell Georgia, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army PFC Johnson, Howard II, Mobile Alabama, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Williams, Michael J., Yuma Arizona, killed during operations outside An Nasiriyah in Iraq
**************************************************************************************************************************
*20030323 - RESCUED 4/1/2003 * * * Army PFC Lynch, Jessica D., Palestine West Virginia, convoy was ambushed by enemy forces
(later rescued personnel included SPC Johnson, Shoshana Nyree, El Paso Texas)
*The Department of Defense announced today the status of 507th *Maintenance Company soldiers who were ambushed March 23 by enemy forces in Iraq.
*Dead are:
*Spc. Jamaal R. Addison, 22, of Roswell, Ga.
*Pfc. Howard Johnson II, 21, of Mobile, Ala.
*Listed as Duty Status Whereabouts Unknown are:
*Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38, of Cleveland, Ohio
*Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, 18, of El Paso, Texas
*Spc. James M. Kiehl, 22, of Des Moines, Iowa
*Pfc. Jessica D. Lynch, 19, of Palestine, W.Va.
*Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, 35, of El Paso, Texas
*Pfc. Lori Ann Piestewa, 23, of Tuba City, Ariz.
*Pvt. Brandon Ulysses Sloan, 19, of Bedford, Ohio
*Sgt. Donald Ralph Walters, 33, of Salem, Ore.
*Listed as Prisoner of War are:
*Spc. Edgar Adan Hernandez, 21, of Mission, Texas
*Spc. Joseph Neal Hudson, 23, of Alamogordo, N.M.
*Spc. Shoshana Nyree Johnson, 30, of El Paso, Texas
*Pfc. Patrick Wayne Miller, 23, of Walter, Kan.
*Sgt. James Joseph Riley, 31, of Pennsauken, N.J.
**************************************************************************************************************************
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Nixon, Patrick R., Nashville Tennessee, killed in action during operations near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Army SGT Buggs, George E., Barnwell South Carolina, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq
20030323 - Army Master SGT Dowdy, Robert J., Cleveland Ohio, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army PVT Estrella-Soto, Ruben, El Paso Texas, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army SPC Kiehl, James M., Comfort Texas, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army Chief Warrant Officer Mata, Johnny Villareal, Amarillo Texas, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army PFC Piestewa, Lori Ann, Tuba City Arizona, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army PVT Sloan, Brandon Ulysses, Cleveland Ohio, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Army SGT Walters, Donald R., Kansas City Missouri, killed when their convoy was ambushed in Iraq (LYNCH)
20030323 - Marine SGT Reiss, Brendon C., Casper/Natrona Wyoming, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine PFC Burkett, Tamario D., Buffalo New York, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Cline, Donald J. Jr., Sparks Nevada, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine PVT Hutchings, Nolen R., Boiling Springs South Carolina, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine PVT Gifford, Jonathan L., Macon Illinois, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Army SPC Anguiano, Edward J., Brownsville Texas, died in ambush on Highway 7 (body recovered 4/24) Iraq
20030323 - Marine CPL Chanawongse, Kemaphoom A., Waterford Connecticut, killed in action near An Nasiriyah
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Buesing,Brian Rory, Cedar Key Florida, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine CPL Rosacker, Randal Kent, San Diego California, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine SGT Bitz, Michael E., Ventura California, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Fribley, David K., Lee Florida, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine CPL Garibay, Jose A., Orange California, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine CPL Gonzalez, Jorge A., Los Angeles California, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine Staff SGT Jordan, Phillip A., Brazoria Texas, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine 2nd Lt. Pokorney, Frederick E. Jr., Nye Nevada, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030323 - Marine Lance CPL Slocum, Thomas J., Adams Colorado, killed in action near An Nasiriyah Iraq
20030322 - Army Reserve SPC Tobler, Brandon S., hometown unknown, died in non-hostile vehicle accident in Iraq
20030322 - Army Capt. Seifert, Christopher Scott, hometown unknown, died from tent grenade attack in Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait
20030321 - Marine 2nd Lt. Childers, Therrel S., Harrison County Mississippi, killed in action in southern Iraq
20030321 - Marine Lance CPL Gutierrez, Jose, Los Angeles California, killed in action in southern Iraq
20030320 - Marine Maj. Aubin, Jay Thomas, Waterville Maine, killed in helicopter crash in Kuwait
20030320 - Marine Capt. Beaupre, Ryan Anthony, Bloomington Illinois, killed in helicopter crash in Kuwait
20030320 - Marine CPL Kennedy, Brian Matthew, Houston Texas, killed in helicopter crash in Kuwait
20030320 - Marine Staff SGT Watersby, Kendall Damon, Baltimore Maryland, killed in helicopter crash in Kuwait

[Devils Advocate NZ]

14. Wow... If that list is correct...

62% (167 out of 270) of the troops killed in Iraq were ranked Lance Corporal or above.

I HIGHLY doubt that 62% of the troops sent to Iraq were ranked Lance Corporal or above, so that suggests that NCO's and officers are dying at higher rates than Privates etc, or that these lists are being manipulated.

Either way, as I said in my previous post, the US military is in big trouble.

[zbdent]

12. Apply Bush logic to the Iraq war: Cutting back on the number of

soldiers in Iraq will actually INCREASE our ability to fix the chaos that reigns!