Anybody up for demonstrating the proportional spacing

[The_Casual_Observer]

and upper case features/capability of the IBM Selectric vintage 1966 on one of these stupid cable news/shit talk programs?

This thing is the most stupid red herring yet. Freepers lose, the memos are real.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Fucking FUD.

If the FreePeeZ told me the sky was blue, I would need independent confirmation. Like from Nobel-Winning scientists.

Man, I cannot believe that people here actually are buying into this bullshit.

[Imalittleteapot]

6. Inquisitive minds want to know.

We'd all be freepers if we didn't look at things from a variety of perspectives. :grouphug:

[LiberalFighter]

2. IBM Selectric Description

IBM Selectric

The IBM "Selectric" Composer was the first desktop typesetting machine. It was based on the successful "Selectric" technology. In case you're not familiar with that, the IBM Selectric typewriter is the one that has a small ball with all the letters imprinted on it.

The basic task of the IBM Composer was to produce justified camera ready copy using proportional fonts. It has the capability of using a variety of font sizes and styles.

The first IBM Composer was the IBM "Selectric" Composer announced in 1966. It was a hybrid "Selectric" typewriter that was modified to have proportional spaced fonts. It is 100% mechanical and has no digital electronics. Since it has no memory, the user was required to type everything twice. While typing the text the first time, the machine would measure the length of the line and count the number of spaces. When the user finished typing a line of text, they would record special measurements into the right margin of the paper. Once the entire column of text was typed and measured, it would then be retyped, however before typing each line, the operator would set the special justification dial (on the right side) to the proper settings, then type the line. The machine would automatically insert the appropriate amount of space between words so that all of the text would be justified.

[librechik]

3. bravo! n/t

[kskiska]

10. I used to set type on an IBM Composer

and have used Selectrics and MagCards, too.

The Composer wasn't meant for the average secretary. It was for the purpose of typesetting, which required better type quality (special paper), proportional spacing, and justification. The type smeared unless it was sprayed with a fixative. It was cumbersome to use, and the company I worked for replaced it with a phototypesetter as soon as they became available.

The ordinary IBM Selectric, as I remember it, was dual-pitch. Typewriters in those days came in either "Elite" (small type), or "Pica," which was larger. The beauty of the dual-pitch Selectric was that by a simple adjustment, one could use either type size. The distinctive type "ball" also allowed different fonts to be used, which was innovative at the time. The old typewriters had only one type face – Courier.

There may have been superscript characters on the ball, but I don't remember specifically. I do remember small characters such as the degree (°) mark.

[Zookeeper]

14. I'm becoming quite nostalgic here...

the Selectric had such a great feel and was really solid.

OK, OK, I know that has nothing to do with the thread.. :+

[RebelYell]

11. IBM, in the '50's, '60's and '70's........

....also had Executive proportional font typewriters, Models A, B, C and D. I used a Model C, made in the '60's. It was a beast to learn, as noted below, but once you got the hang of it, look out. We're talking type set masterpieces.

The Executive relied on hammer strike typing technology, not the newer type ball. It could easily be manipulated to type above or below a line by a half line.

Who is claiming the documents were typed on a Selectric? I missed that somehow. If it's been proven to be typed on a Selectric...well...never mind.

http://www.well.com/user/smalin/typinwhy.htm

~~~~~

"Only somebody with a PhD in secretarial skills could operate it. It was a proportional spacing machine: an 'm' was five spaces wide, an 'i' was two. There were two separate space bars (two and three spaces respectively). To correct a mistake, you had to know the width of all the characters involved so that you could backspace the appropriate amount (backspace was the only single-space key on the machine). There was an arcane procedure for producing justified type which involved typing a page a first time (while using a special guide to measure where the lines ended), noting the extra spaces that needed to be added, marking the copy to show where two-width spaces would be replaced with three-width spaces (or, in the worst case, two two-width spaces), and typing the page a second time."

~~~~~

[starroute]

12. Executive wasn't all that tough to learn

I had a friend with one in the late 60's, and I remember using it a couple of times to type the letter column for a Tolkien fanzine he was putting out. It was kind of a nuisance compared to the Selectrics I was used to, but it didn't take all that long to get the hang of.

I checked those old fanzines earlier this evening, and the Executive did have left and right curly quotes, which someone on another thread said were present in the memos. As far as I know, the Selectric didn't.

[salvorhardin]

4. See this post

on Slashdot.
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121233&cid=10208086

also this post:
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121233&cid=10208278

<snip>
Superscript th was not an unusual requirement. Even if the machine started as stock it was the type of upgrade that happened regularly in the field. The striking pins have to be accessible because every so often a machine will jam.

The arguments about Word documents mean absolutely nothing. The alignment of the two documents does not look all that good to me, the resolution of the images is way less than the difference I would expect.

When self proclaimed 'experts' start making categorical claims such as proportional spacing typewriters did not exist at the time and those claims are proved false it is time to discount their expertise.
</snip>

and heck, this post too:
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121233&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=224&tid=219&mode=nested&pid=10208910

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Somebody should just carry one of these down to the studio

wind in a sheet of paper type a few keys and kick their stupid ass on the way out.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

7. That would shut them up!

Excellent idea. I loved typing on Selectric typewritters. They have a very nice touch. I remember the using superscript "th", but for the life of me I can't remember how! I remember there was also a degree symbol.

There had to be somehow to do superscript. I remember typing papers and using footnotes. Even if you simply switched balls to a small type and move the platen up a half of a line that would do it.

And we're talking about the military here. They tend to have "perfectionists" and as far as a typewritter costing too much money, again, we're talking about the military.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. "typewritter costing too much money"

In those days IBM didn't sell those typewriters, like telephones they were only for lease. This was also true for their computers.

[phylny]

16. I do remember

moving the platen up (down? - which is more accurate?) a half a line. It was easy to do, and you had to do it all the time when I was in college. No computers then!

Of course, I had to use "correction tape" a lot, too ;)

[salvorhardin]

9. Also see my comparison of the two typefaces here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x780217#780682

[Fleshdancer]

13. In all this memo frenzy, people are forgetting Barnes

I can accept that there will be conversations over whether the memos were real or not, but I can't believe people are completely ignoring the fact that a man admitted on national television that he pulled strings to get a pampered son of a Congressman out of a war. Especially when that same pampered son is attempting to tell Americans that he is somehow more suited to be Commander in Chief than a war hero. :wtf:

[troublemaker]

15. Could someone debunk (or prove) this one item?

It's a very narrow point, but it's the one persuasive forgery argument I've seen. Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x781666