I'm gonna come right out and say it...

[King_Crimson]

There was a certain faction within the Republican party that was definitely complicit in the events of 9/11/2001...and I'm talking specifically involved! They steal the election without any resistance...they ram a Japanese fishing boat with a submarine...they fly a spy plane close to China trying to antagonize the Chinese... they shoot down a small plane in Columbia carrying a pregnant woman, killing her! They wanted to see how much they could get away with before the "REALLY BIG SHOW"! My Honest Opinion...SAY WHAT YOU WILL...Matter of fact...BRING IT ON...THOSE PLANES WERE REMOTELY FLOWN INTO THE INTENDED TARGETS...YOU'LL NEVER CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING LESS!! These bastards wanted that...after all, what's a couple thousand lives? Numbnuts has been tuning up for it as his record of executions in Texas will bear out! They are guilty of MURDER...TREASON...LAUNCHING A WAR OF AGGRESSION AGAINST A DEFENSELESS COUNTRY...MORE MURDER...LYIMG TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE WORLD...MORE MURDER...MANUFACTURING EVIDENCE IN THEIR FAVOR...MORE MURDER..THEY NEED TO HANG FROM THE YARDARM!

[Solomon]

1. Been there long ago and still waiting for

people to wake up. The fact that its so unthinkable is the best feature. People will go out of their way, believe in crazy theories, to give Bush an out on 911. They do everything, I mean EVERYTHING, right in front of our faces, and we don't see it, because its so obvious.

[King_Crimson]

3. It's too obvious Solomon...

ALL the bloodletting...and it's done so easily, right in front of a worldwide audience! "Why...the United States would NEVER do that to their own people"...YEAH...RIGHT! Saddam wouldn't kill his own people either!

[JohnyCanuck]

2. I pretty well agree

except that I think they made sure to keep numbnuts in the dark as much as possible, knowing that Shit Fer Brains could give the plot a way if they clued him in beforehand. Note that they made sure to rush Cheney off to an underground bunker immediately to take charge and run things and left the puported C in C sitting with a "WTF am I supposed to do now?" look on his face while he sat on his ass and listened to kids reading about a pet goat for about 15 minutes or so after the second plane hit.

[southernfried]

4. what motive do you suggest they have ?

.

[King_Crimson]

5. Take a look at the PNAC agenda...

it's ALL right there...PNAC=Project For A New American Century! Google it and you shall see! The so-called "Neo-Cons" the Fascist wing of the Republican party!

[mdmc]

24. a mandate for the selection

in 2000

[southernfried]

27. pretty costly "mandate"

I doubt that any secret society would be willing to spend that much just for that when its so readily obtainable without going to those extremes.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zoidberg]

20. Jews didn't go to work that day?!

Not that I trust everything Tom Friedman has to say, but his response to this ridiculous canard was: 1) How on earth is somebody going to come up with a list of all the Jews who work at one place? I'm pretty sure that there isn't a master list of the religions of everybody in my workplace and 2) Wouldn't you think that at least one of those Jews would have contacted authorities? I guess Jews are all cold blooded murderers who feast on the blood of Arab children and want to take over the world.

The world has enough reasons to hate us without people speading these lies.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[TheUnionDemocrat]

46. STOP PEDDLING ANTI-SEMMITIC BULLSHIT!!!

You're trying to tell me that 2 to 4000 Israeli Jews are in on this KOOKY FUCKING CONSPIRACY???

AND NONE OF THEM HAVE TALKED?????? YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME THAT THESE ISRAELI JEWS WERE GIVEN THE WARNING TWO HOURS IN ADVANCE OF THE 9-11 IMPACT???

DO YOU KNOW HOW FUCKING STUPID THAT IS???

You're trying to say that these 2-4000 people were told of the single worst attack on American soil in HISTORY and they weren't screened in advance??? YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME THAT THE MASTER-MINDS OF THIS SUPPOSED CONSPIRACY THEORY TRUSTED 2-4000 UNSCREENED CIVILIANS?????

Is THAT what you're asking me to believe????????????

THAT IS THE MOST IRRESPONSIBLE AND MORONIC CRAP I HAVE EVER HEARD!!!

Jesus FUCKING Christ MAN! You're repeating CRAP that's sprewed by NOTHING but Jew Hating Anti-Semmites!!! Only fucking idiots and terrorist supporters buy that crap!!!

And I RESENT fellow members of DU spewing anti-semmitec BULLSHIT!!!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[TheUnionDemocrat]

55. It's not....

...anti-semitic to criticize or speak about Israel. I'm with you on that one, BIG TIME. Just like it's not racist to criticize or speak-out about a black leader.

Here's the problem...

The people that are spreading this BULLSHIT story about Israelis being warned in advance of 9-11 ARE anti-semitic (Not the ones on this board, the ones who originated it and the ones who spread it KNOWING it's false). They spread that story (Mostly in the muslim world where people are a WHOLE LOT more receptive to it) in order to spread even MORE hatred of Jews and Israel.

And repeating that same CRAP is repeating something that is "Anti-semitic".

There is a BIG difference. It would be like someone posting some kind of Bell Curve crap here. It's not true and it's racist. To repeat any of it would be to repeat racist bullshit.


As for "Explaining why there are no Israelis on the list"....

1) I don't believe it. I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying I have no reason to believe it.

2) And even if it IS true, so what? The idea that they were warned is just not feasable.

3) The story has been debunked numerous time.

4) If you KEEP spreading this CRAP, you WILL become an anti-semmite. But that's all up to you.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

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[TheUnionDemocrat]

63. No.

I'm actually being quite restrained. Spreading anti-semetic propaganda is spreading anti-semetic propaganda. It's black and white.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[RandomKoolzip]

29. Dude, that story about Jews not going to WTC that day is bullshit.

It's a rumor proven false. Snopes.com is where you oughta go for this.

However, there was a bunch of funny stuff going on 9/11/01; Israelis filming and cheering the event, Arab kids knowing before the event something was gonna happen.

I happen to believe that the Administration had something to do w/ 9/11. The Center for Cooperative research website has some great info and conpspiracy stuff.

Nut the story about 4000 Jews told to stay home on 9/11 is just not true.

[shanti]

32. DUDE

he didn't say JEWS, he said ISRAELIS! get it right!

[RandomKoolzip]

33. Argue semantics if you'd like, but the facts stand.

This story has appeared in different places with "Jews" substituted with "Israelis" and vice-versa. Poet Laureate of New York Amiri Baraka stirred up a shitstorm when he published a poem with this allegation included. It's just not true, whether you like it or not.

[shanti]

38. yeah semantics

it makes a hell of a lot of difference, imo. you believe what you want, but i think the israelis had a hand in this pie.

[Allah Akbar]

53. You can think your own government might have had a hand in it

but you can't even wonder about Israeli involvement.

It is Verboten!

[Jim Sagle]

7. I felt that way the very second I heard about 9-11.

Nothing has transpired since to change my mind.

[Sirius_on]

8. Remote control planes?

"Nurse, hand me the straight jacket please"


I think there was a lack of intelligence (pun intended), but full scale intentional attack with remote control planes????? :wow: :wow: :wow:

Too many slip ups for this to even be attempted to plan for. Basically what I mean is....the cat would get out of the bag somehow. Yet, no news organization anywhere has even the slightless bit mentioned this possibility. No leftwing papers overseas...nadda.

[King_Crimson]

9. Here's some interesting reading...

on the subject, and it is rather lengthy...http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

[shanti]

39. howlingwolf

fwiw, i also believe in the remote plane theory. there are MANY MANY things that the general public is not privy to. (hello ufos?)

taking off my :tinfoilhat: now, ;-)

[rman]

10. it's not like it is technically impossible

no matter how many :wow:'s you insert.

none of the (non-indy) media (including leftwing overseas) have picked up even on the possibility of intelligence failure, let alone LIHOP or MIHOP.

all attention is on the WMD lies and Iraq quagmire now.

[rman]

15. as a matter of fact

just today a local newspaper (europe, netherlands) has an article on the frontpage about the admin being warned about 9/11, and suppression of results of the investigation.

[mopaul]

16. they've been remotely flying airliners for years now

they can have them take off, fly across the ocean and land with absolutely no human aboard. been doing it for at least 10 years.
i've seen the footage myself of big jets landing by remote control.

[MUAD_DIB]

48. Provide a link please.

Thanks.

[nolabels]

49. Lets get this straight, they have unmaned drones that can go out....

fly around, find somebody traveling in automobile and take them out, but it would impossible to fly a large airliner in just a normal way. Another lay man inquiry, but don't they have on board computers that you can basically program to do almost all the piloting?

[DUreader]

11. And these 'news organizations' have mentioned the official story

inconsistencies...where?

The official story can not stand up to scrutiny, but these same news

orgs. will not touch it.

Why not?

[hussar]

12. Not sure about the remote control aspect

but agree it was set up as was the first attempt at the Trade towers, if you read about the first attempt there is no reason to disbelieve that the powers that be did'nt try using the same technique a second time.
It is almost too scary to believe but the more I read the more I am convinced that this was set up in order for their agenda to succeed.

[mopaul]

13. it's hard to believe because it's just too painful to admit

that anyone in our government could be that coldhearted and evil, but that's exactly what i believe, and more are coming around, very reluctantly.

[trof]

14. OK...Deep Breath time

I was an airline pilot (TWA) for 30 years.
The "remote control" scenario just could not happen.
Yes, the technical ability is available.
But there is no way it could be done with any airplanes flown by a U.S. carrier.
How could the necessary hardware be installed in complete secrecy?
Literally hundreds of people would have had to know about it.
How could you possibly be sure no one would rat? Have second thoughts when they saw the results?
Do I think it could have been LIHOP? That warnings went unheeded? Yes.
But the idea that somehow remote control hardware (very complicated) was installed and used is just not feasible.

[shanti]

40. trof

could you then please explain the "expert" flying ability the "pilots" of those jets? i would REALLY like to know!

[Sophree]

44. I'm with you, trof

The remote control idea has always seemed a little farfetched to me.

LIHOP, yes. MIHOP- possibly. But I don't think they used remote control. JMO

[teryang]

45. I agree

Also, I am suspicious of the company which provided security for the aircraft at Logan. This company has many former IDF and Israeli intel personnel working for it. Tnen immediately after 911 the first thing the Congress did was get private contractors away from airport screening. Wise move!

This company let the terrorists on the plane, that is a fact in the mainstream version of events. The same company allegedly was responsible for the apprehension of another terrorist at Orly airport with "explosives"in his shoe, but this story has a fishy quality. I discussed the reports in the press at the time with a former military person with explosives training and experience and he assured me that based upon the explosives used and the alleged method of ignition, this "terrorist" was not a threat to the aircraft at any time.

This situation of negligence or LIHOP with screening security at Logan is a much more likely source of the events leading directly to the attacks. Why would screeners catch Reed but not catch Atta and co? The latter apprehension was a scrub job. The documented presence of Israeli nationals recording and celebrating the diaster in New York leads me to believe that Israel is involved along with Saudi, Pakistani and American covert operators.

Based upon my training and research while in the government, I do not believe that international terrorism can operate on this scale without state support.


:tinfoilhat:

[MUAD_DIB]

52. Careful trof!

You are treading on sacred ground here. :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

If you are not a believer in the unbelievable then you may face ridicule.


BTW: Did you know that the red sea was parted for moses by a near earth asteriod? You may thin that's bull, but people believe that too.

[trof]

65. didn't think anyone would read my reply

I don't have a problem with people believing whatever they want to.
And I see some pretty far-fetched stuff here.
I don't mean to put anyone down, but you have to admit that once in a tiny while some of us tend to get a little..."out there".:tinfoilhat:
As long as it stays here, it doesn't matter much, one way or another.
What does bother me is that someone will pick up one of these really way out conspiracy threads and go "public" on the outside in a publication or on c-span or whatever and give the rightys more ammo about how we're all a bunch of nut cases.
Maybe this is worth a thread of its own.
peace

[Solomon]

54. Why haven't they let us hear what's on those

black boxes? Pilots screaming that they can't control the planes?

[11 Bravo]

17. What about cell phone calls

made from the aircraft? I know that calls were made from AA 77 (Pentagon) to loved ones on the ground stating that they had been hijacked; and I believe I heard the same about at least one of the WTC flights.

[corarose]

18. Do you remember the black helicopters flying around the twin towers?

Some how they vanished out of all of the pictures but I remember seeing them when I was watching the TV live on 9/11.
My Sister and I were wondering what they were doing in the smoke and they came out of it and flew away.

Bush brought the Twin Towers down and I will allways blame him. Republicans don't care about life they one care about money.

Did you notice that the big wigs in the twin towers didn't go into work on 9/11 but there were tons of hourly office & restaurant workers that were killed.

[zoidberg]

21. Big wigs didn't go to the office that day?!

Do you have anything at all to support this?

[seemslikeadream]

23. Yes they were all at a meeting with Warren Buffet, I believe

you know that place bush flew to on 911. But some how John O'Neal got left behind.

[Capn Sunshine]

34. It was a charity event

Witness this blurb from my friend Anne Tatlocks bio

On the morning of Sept. 11, Tatlock herself had just arrived with a small group of business leaders at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha for a charity event hosted by Warren Buffett. She then heard the news of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center's north tower.

[Karenina]

26. Tis true

IIRC, they were all at breakfast with Warren Buffet somewhere in Omaha. Certainly someone still has a link to that tidbit. I'm sorry, I don't.

[hussar]

19. Watch this

http://www.gnn.tv/after_math/qt_hi_a.html

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. Lots of BS stories

It's a tactic - when something big happens, throw around as many conflicting stories as you can, that way no one can determine the truth.

Muslim hijackers? Osama or not? Remote control? Planes shot down?

We'll never know the whole truth. It seems pretty obvious that the Bush administration was negligent or complicit.

Remember that the media recount of the 2000 election was due to be released two weeks after 911, which showed that Gore had won Florida.

After 911, the same newspapers that did the recount said no one cared anymore. Nice, huh?

[GOPHater]

28. Say it loud and clear

For all to hear. If they can kill Kennedy, they can hit the trade towers.

[tomp]

30. don't rule out some dems so easily.

how did willie brown find out about impending danger? repub sources? doubt it.

haven't many of the dems gone along with bush in the aftermath of 9/11? could it be they all felt it (a pearl harbor-like event) was the only way to justify this next crucial step in u.s. imperialist foregin policy, invading the middle east?

[shanti]

42. that was the PNAC theory

and there weren't (to my knowledge) any dems involved in PNAC.

[tomp]

50. yes, i know that.

so? so they didn't sign on the original document. wouldn't look too good if they did, would it. might then to blow the cover, no? but tell me you think u.s. foreign policy is not fundamentally bipartisan. how many dems opposed the invasion of afghanistan or iraq on principle? many quibbled about HOW we should do it but not IF we should do it.

[Allah Akbar]

59. How about Graham meeting with the Pakistaini money man

The one that wired $100K to Mohammed Atta? Mahmoud, head of the pakistan ISI I believe. Graham was meeting with him at the time the attacks on 911 were taking place.

Either he is a dupe of the highest order or involved, either way I can't believe some Democrats think Graham would be a good choice for Presdident!

[bunnyhop]

31. And the media and the democrats stood by

Thank god for the internet or there'd have been no exposing what they did. Ten years ago they'd have gotten away with all this.

[baffie]

35. I said that the *moment* I heard about 9/11

and I've never changed my opinion. Not psychic - just information gathered over time caused some of us to see it coming before it even happened.

[Generic Other]

41. Link to Ewing2001 at Global Free Press

If anyone knows what happened on 9/11, it's this former DUer who has collected as many of the relevant documents as possible. He was my choice for head of the 9/11 Investigation.

http://globalfreepress.com/ewing2001/

[TheUnionDemocrat]

43. Are you sure...

...your name's not "Crying Wolf"???

Because by floating these moronic conspiracy theories, you're only making it harder for REAL charges to be brought and believed.

[MUAD_DIB]

47. Two things on Remote flying.

1. My three brothers and I knew a High School teacher that happened to be on one of the planes that hit thw WTC. All that they found of him was his hand. They never found any remains of his wife.

2. My parents know the parents of one of the pilots whose plane hit the WTC. I don't think that they ever found anything of him at all.

These are ...were real people. They existed.

Since you have provided no reputable links for your conspiracy theories :tinfoilhat: ,and you can't be convinced of anything else, I might suggest that you reconsider your analysis and provide hard facts not pure speculation.


BTW: On those "mysterious" bumps on the underside of the planes that I have heard so much about.
Have you ever been near an airport and watched the planes take off and land?

Yes? No?

We have a great vantage point here in Boston called Castle Island. Depending on the time of day and traffic control, planes take off and fly right over Castle Island.

Note: Those bumbs on the underside of the fuselage (the so-called remote control area) are where the wings meet the fuselage and also where the wheel wells for the back landing gear are located. Take a class in structural engineering or at least check it out on the web.:tinfoilhat:

If you want to talk conspiracy theories then talk about why * let this happen on his watch while he sat for twenty minutes in a school when he could have been protecting the nation.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

56. Thank you!

For the sane reply.

I just can't believe there aren't more of you here. I REALLY don't understand that.


Sigh...

[RummyTheDummy]

57. I read this post and....

Was shocked that I was the one accused by a myriad of posters of wearing a tin foil hat over the JFK assasination. Why some of it might be near the truth, most of it is waaaaaaaaaaay out there.

[Blitz]

58. "YOU'LL NEVER CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING LESS!!"

And thus ends all rational discussion.

[republicansareevil]

60. Almost two years have passed, and I still don't know what to believe.

I wouldn't rule LIHOP, or even MIHOP, although I also haven't ruled out sheer incompetence. But a lot of the stories this White House tried to pass off are just laughable -- the "found" passport being a prime example, but there are many others. One thing that always tended to dissuade me from MIHOP was Bush's reaction. I can't believe he would sit there for 45 minutes and then zip around the country like a scared bunny if he was in on it. Even if he wasn't in on it, but others were, why would they let him do that? Just to make MIHOP seem less plausible? It doesn't seem likely. BUT, something occurred to me recently -- what if it was MIHOP and Bush was not in on it and still isn't? What if they are manipulating Bush -- and using religion to do so? I can see them telling him he was chosen by God, etc. and him believing it because he is so egotistical and simple.

Just speculating here. MIHOP has never been my top theory. I think the truth lies somewhere in the spectrum between LIHOP and gross incompetence. But I sure would like to find out the truth someday.

[DeathvadeR]

61. I't wasn't planned, It was allowed to happen.

These neo-cons with huge investments in Oil and Military production have been waiting for the day of 9/11 to happen for quite some time. Now if you said Oklahoma was planeed, well then we might have a discussion. They were frantic to point the fingures at the arabs after that attempt, then things fell apart when McVeigh basically turned himself in. Did anyone hear or see a word written or spoken fromn this guy? I wonder why?

They created a senario prior to 9/11 in hopes that it would one day take place. When the opportunity of 9/11 arose, they chose to look the other way and twist a few half truths. The dominos began to fall right in place for them to get rich and gain control.

[nolabels]

64. That's what they said about Tonkin Bay Hoax

Just picked this link up from another thread here

http://standdown.net/
(snip)
Exposing NORAD's Wag The 911 Window Dressing Tale
Using NORAD’s Own Press Release And Fifth Grade Math

by Mark Elsis, Lovearth.net, January 8, 2003

(snip)(snip)
With a minute-by-minute chronology from 7:59 a.m. till 10:06:05 a.m., this article will dismantle the Wednesday September 18, 2001 North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) Press Release. This press release encompasses the (supposed) response times of the United States Air Force on Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

This article will explain to you exactly what happened for the almost one hour and fifty-three minutes that elapsed between the time American Airlines Flight 11 lost voice contact with air traffic control and was hijacked at 8:13:31, till the time United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania at 10:06:05.
(snip)
So many more links on this stuff, Try this, The complete 200+ page timeline is at www.cooperativeresearch.org/completetimeline

[Zan_of_Texas]

66. Yes, that's an excellent link.

I suggest that those who think they are pretty sure what happened on Sept. 11 spend at least 20 - 30 minutes just browsing through that amazing site. It is documented stuff, all tied together meticulously by volunteer researchers.

The reaction of the government is so odd, from Colleen Rowley trying to get her superiors to do something at FBI about what appears to have been a hijacker, from the apparent order not to scramble planes to protect DC, to the odd demise of John O'Neill, who had just left FBI as the chief Osama expert to go work at the World Trade Center. The flights of the bin Laden relatives out of the US on special planes, while everyone else was grounded.....The Nebraska breakfast meeting, and then Dubya ends up in Nebraska later that day. The fact that Ashcroft, wasn't it, stopped flying commercial in July of that year. The level of skill that would be needed for two rookie pilots, on a suicide mission, to fly a plane down the river directly into Manhattan and hit one of two buildings. Even the actual destruction of buildings in the WTC -- was it the planes, or was there more? Why did other buildings fall down?

What about the shorts placed on stock of the two airlines beforehand, in huge amounts? Why was that not tracked down properly? Could it have something to do with ......nah, just a coincidence. Nothing to see here.

[teryang]

67. Great questions!

<,,,Why did other buildings fall down?

What about the shorts placed on stock of the two airlines beforehand, in huge amounts? Why was that not tracked down properly?>

The obstruction of investigation into these matters is prima facie evidence of administration involvement in a conspiracy.