I accidently pissed off a Kucinich supporter yesterday. . .

[wndycty]

. . .part of me thinks its funny, the other part of me hates that because even though I am a Clark supporter (am a Chicago/Illinois coordinator) I don't want to have to put down other candidates to promote mine.

I was at the Chicago BRING THEM HOME RALLY and I was passing out Clark literature and I came across a Kucinich supporter who told me that Clark would make a terrific Vice-Presidential candidate for Kucinich. I simply responded:

"Thanks, I am gald you see the General is qualified to be in this race, however I am not ready to settle for VP. Afterall on many bedrock Democratic issues he is more liberal than people admit. He has been just as critical of this war as Kucinch and unlike Kucinich he is sincerely pro-choice, he did not just change his position to run for president."

She walked away in a huff, flame away if you must but I thought it was funny. I later felt bad that I may have turned a potential Clark supporter into an enemy.

[newsguyatl]

1. umm

>>>>>I later felt bad that I may have turned a potential Clark supporter into an enemy.<<<<<<<

don't worry, you're not alone in doing that... :eyes:

[wndycty]

8. About that. . .

. . .I laugh at how immature certain people on the DU are when it comes to holding something against a candidate because that candidates SUPPORTERS (not the candidate his or herself) act like at idiots at times.

I have come under a hell of a lot of fire recently for supporting Clark, yet that fire has not caused me to hate a particular candidate rather its made me take note of who is firing at what they are saying. I might take issue with these folks, but I am not going to holding against their candidate. THAT WOULD BE PRETTY IMMATURE.

"wndycty pissed me off so I am not going to support Clark!" Think about it you are going to hold it against Clark because I may have pissed you off?

The only candidate I cannot support is Lieberman, and that has nothing to do with his supporters. . .it has to do with the fact he is a piece of you know what.

Grow up people. . .we have an election to win in November 2004!

ON EDIT WONK caught a typo that I have since corrected.

[Wonk]

9. "we have an election to when(sic) in November 2004!"

Making a pattern of being rude to Democrats who aren't Clarkies will help that objective how, exactly?

[wndycty]

13. How was I rude. . .

I pointed out a fact, what is Kucinich's voting record on abortion? Furthermore if you tell me something I don't like about Clark I would actually acknowledge it, respond, correct. . .something.

I was not confrontational. . .I just pointed something out.

[Pepperbelly]

16. how can you say that with a straight face when ...

you start Clark bashing threads that serve little purpose except to smear? I find this rather amusing more than anything else.

[Wonk]

2. Ignorantly, maybe. Accidently, nope (imho). nt

[JI7]

3. why that wasn't good

when you said to her "he did not change his position to run for president" on kucinich and abortion, the kucinich supporters would just come back with something like = he did not just become a democrat to run for president. or the gay rights issue on which clark was earlier opposed to gays in the military.

it might have been better if you tried to reason with her on why you think clark would make a good president or how you feel he might be the best in beating bush. i think clark is sincere in his support of gays in the military now, just as kucinich is on a woman's right to chose. change for the better should be praised.

[Racenut20]

6. I really doubt

That you can convince some of these people of anything logical or reasonable.

[diamondsoul]

20. Well this is a nice

generalized insult for Kucinich supporters. Funny, it could easily be said of people who support someone who won't even DECLARE himself either a candidate or even a Democrat, eh?

Now can we get off the holier-than-thou BS?

[Booberdawg]

4. You made a valid point

She initiated the dialog, your response was appropriate. Actually, her comment was rude considering you were handing out Clark for PRESIDENT literature. She had it coming.

:)

[searchingforlight]

5. I don't understand that concept.

How can a person decide not to vote for somebody because one of that person's supporters says or said something that the person didn't like?

I see that quite a bit in rhetoric about all the candidates. If we can't make up our own minds based on what our desire is for the future of this country and who of the final two/three choices best fills our desires, we are no better than media boobs.

[JNelson6563]

7. well if Clark were to run

and win the nom. I would sure hope that stating the truth wouldn't deter someone from voting for him.

The Kucinich folks I spoke with last month at an event saw my Dean button and were very, very nice. When asked, said they'd vote for whoever got the nom. I talked about how easily I thought the reich-wing media would portray Kuncinich as a raving extremist and how the country is so far right they'd just swallow it.

They agreed on the press thing and the rightward movement of the country. It probably went so well because right off the bat I told 'em I liked Kucinich a lot. At parting we wished each other luck with our candidates and said we looked forward to working together in the general for whoever.

I'd like to think that in the end we'll all get together.

Julie--for whom hope springs eternal

[wndycty]

10. Now I am not attacking Kucinich supporters

I think it was this particular woman. If you support a particular candidate you should not walk away or end a discussion when someone says something you don't like. If that were the case I would have left the DU a long time ago.

I raised a valid point, but I still like Kucinich. But more importantly I would think that she feels he is a strong enough candidate that she would have had an appropriate response.

[Wonk]

12. re: appropriate response, I'm going to walk away from this thread now.

Bye.

[wndycty]

14. Don't let the door hit you. . .

. . .where the good Lord split you.

[prolesunited]

11. I'm sorry I missed you yesterday

I was looking for you. I'm getting my pix ready for posting.

[wndycty]

15. We probably passed each other. . .

. . .a few times. . .did you actually take part in the march. I had to leave early.

[prolesunited]

17. Actually, I got tied up in construction traffic

and was a little late, but did take part in the march. Maybe next time ...

[revcarol]

18. Maybe the reason she walked off was that you fell for the line

that DK's well thought-out change of position was to get elected. That would offend any knowledgeable DK supporter.

She probably thought her time could be better spent with the un-brainwashed.

[wndycty]

21. If I was wrong. . .

. . .I would not have taken offense to be corrected. If you have ever paid attention to me on this board you would know I am very reasonable.

Also please explain to me how I was brainwashed. If she felt I was wrong she could have told me. . .just because I don't share a particular view I am brainwashed? If you feel everyone that does not agree with you is brainwashed there is no hope for you, expect maybe at the FreeRepublic.

[revcarol]

22. Evidently you have not been following any of the candidate threads

here, because that strawman is brought up in EVERY SINGLE THREAD and has been debunked.That's why I said "brainwashed."

Not meant to be trashing you, but you really ought to investigate the facts about others' candidates before you make assertions about them.

In the same way, I expect to investigate the facts about every other candidate other than DK, but without trashing their candidate to their supporters.Just for my own information.

How about sticking to the positives for your own candidate, instead of confronting other candidates' supporters while they are campaigning?

[wndycty]

23. Was it really trashing?

I pointed out what I believed to be the truth. . .explain how that is trashing.

[buddhamama]

19. no flames

but DK's change happened before his decision to run.

and the Lady should have stuck around instead of walking away.

one(dis)advantage Clark has though over the other candidates,he doesn't have a voting record to defend, does he?

for all one would know, he may turn out to be a wolf in sheep's clothing-if you get my point. it is determining his sincerety. how do we know that he isn't just saying stuff to get elected? we don't.

btw, i am not against Clark. and i can see myself voting for him.

[LWolf]

24. I forgive you.

For using a political strategy not grounded in fact, and for laughing.

I probably wouldn't have bothered to hang out and discuss it with you, either. If someone who was looking at different candidates and asking questions because they hadn't made up their mind brought up the choice change, I would hang out and discuss it at length. When someone who has already made their choice throws it in my face with an innaccurate spin, or laughs at my choices or opinions(derision, ridicule, "I win" mentality)I'm not going to waste my time.

So, looking at the title of your thread as opposed to your closing statement, which is this post about? Bragging that you pissed somebody off, or repenting that you drove away a possible ally?

Convince me that it isn't about bragging, derision, etc., and I'll probably pay attention to what you have to say about Clark.

[wndycty]

25. Neither

I think what really startled me was the fact she walked away. How was what I said not grounded in fact? What is Kucinich's record on abortion? Was I really reaching?

Also I would think if supporters of any candidate, myself included, are confronted with what they believe to be a falsehood about their candidate they would actually defend said candidate.

I was not looking for a confrontation. Should I have been offended when she said my candidate would make a good VP, now I let her know that I want him to lead the ticket and I told her why. Did I overload her with what I believed to be the facts?

[LWolf]

29. Hi again.

By "not grounded" I meant that you took a fact...DK used to be pro-life, but "spun" it in a misleading way. His "change" occurred before his presidential candidacy. And, if you study Kucinich, the evolution is in line with his viewpoints on everything else. "Spinning" facts to suit the agenda is an everyday occurrence, but I don't have to buy into it, especially when it comes from someone who probably knows better and is just using it as a tool for his/her own agenda.

I will defend when confronted, in some cases. For example, I'm still here talking to you. Usually I base that decision on whether or not I think it will make a difference; my perception of the confronter's
motives. If I know that I won't change their mind, and that their agenda is to rile me up and "win" (in their eyes) an argument, I won't waste my time or energy. If it is true debate, or if it is being presented to a whole audience rather than just myself, I'll defend vigorously.

I don't think you should have been offended by the VP remark; it's a compliment to the candidate. I would sincerely like to see CMB on any ticket for VP because I like her and think she has an important contribution to make. I don't say that to offend her supporters. I also think you were absolutely correct to engage her. If it were me, I would hang around to discuss the matter if you spoke about your candidate; I already know about mine. And if what you had to say about my candidate wasn't "spun" for your own candidate's agenda.

In all honesty, I probably wouldn't have spent too much time, though. I'm willing to give Clark my attention if and when he chooses to run; until that point, my time is spent learning about those who have declared candidacy.

[MaverickX]

26. who cares?

Does anyone sincerely think Kucinich can beat Bush?

[wndycty]

27. Interesting question. . .

. . .and the only answer you will get from me is:

IF HE WINS THE NOMINATION I WILL WORK LIKE HELL TO HELP HIM BEAT BUSH!!!!

[MaverickX]

28. thats a big if..

n/t

[LWolf]

30. Yes.

There are plenty of us out here who know that DK can beat bush.

[hippywife]

31. Most definitely!!

The backlash from those of us that were Independent or Green voters is going to make the difference.

We were not declared for the Dems before because all we were offered was more of the same, which is what every other candidate in this race still offers.

The fact that there are so many candidates in this race indicates that everyone feels they have a good chance to unseat the current reckless administration. The major difference between Dennis and the others is the desire to not only oust Bush but to also make our country better. Given the choice, I want better...it's a rare opportunity for major change of direction in a party that even many regular Democratic voters can appreciate.