Why do so few of you dare to discuss the Iraq disaster?

[Dancing_Dave]

And the enormous consequences it will have for the whole world?

The backlash against the U.S. over today's developments will spread around the world. Already OIL PRICES HAVE HIT AN ALL TIME HIGH, and as chaos spreads they can only go higher. Do you have any idea what this will do to the already deeply indebted U.S. economy? Some people on the stock market have a clue, the stock prices took a dive as soon as the terrible news began coming in early this morning. THIS IS YOUR FUTURE ON THE LINE, as well as all the dying Iraqis you can't give damn about.

America has very little time to wake up and drastically change the course, or we could find ourselves in another Vietnam and another Great Depression simlutaneously. And most of the world will judge we deserve it.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO???

[bahrbearian]

1. Because it was the Right thing to do!

Saddam terrorized himself.

[prolesunited]

9. After everything that has happened

you still think it was the RIGHT thing to do? Why?

[Booster]

2. Vote for Kerry/Edwards.....

What else would you suggest we do?

[Dancing_Dave]

23. Oh yeah, we know what a great "leader" he is on this issue

He once did change his mind about Vietnam and become a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, but he seems to have forgotten that as he fails to clearly state that THIS occupation is another disasterous mistake, and like Vietnam, it won't end until we're out of it.

Well, I guess his kids won't go and die in it. He seems to have lost everything that once made him an interesting human being.

All we can do for him is try to wake his better nature up again.

[Fla Dem]

3. Iraq Quaqmire

I just finished reading Robert Fisk's account of the situation in Iraq...posted by Dancing Dave. That my friends scares the heck out of me. We are sooo in a quagmire over there and no one in the mainstream media is reporting it. They are so afraid of being called biased by the rw commentators and politicians. But that country is going down the tubes fast. It is going to become another Afghanistan, with the Muslim hardliners imported from Iran running the country. If they thought it was bad before with Saddam..wait until Iran takes over.

This was a ready made situation for Iran. They have always wanted the Iraq territory, and now they will get it by default, thanks to the wrongheadedness of Bush and the neocons, and our silent, hear no truth, see no truth, report no truth mainstream media.

Good bless all those American service people George W. Bush has sacrificed for a non-winnable conflict and the thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens who have been killed in this reckless, worthless war

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Start by electing Kerry president

and have patience as he mends international fences. The damage Bush has done will take years, if not decades, to overcome.

[Dancing_Dave]

19. Do you really think K. will find "allies" stupid and immoral enough

To give us support of more troops for our shameless catastrophe? Do you really think that just by Kerry sweet talking 'em a little better than Dubya, they'll all be happy to follow our "leadership" into this deepening catastrophe?

Don't delude yourself. Work to undelude Kerry! Show up at all his rallies with "Peace" and "No Blood For Oil Signs". I've been saying it for weaks...he could win as peace canidate but he can only lose as "War Canidate #2". This will destroy him unless he gets a clue from us, or some of those sane people in Europe who he claims he'll be on such great terms with.

[Old and In the Way]

5. Go to Disneyland?

Actually, I'm working to get Kerry elected. That seems to be job1 these days.

[shadu]

6. I'll tell you EXACTLY what we are going to do:

goose-step left!
goose-step right!
goose-step left!!
goose-step right!!

[Selwynn]

7. (edit - I have this feeling I misunderstood the post)

....

[bemildred]

8. Look, sonny, we have been discussing it here for some time now.

Today is just another nail in the coffin.

[madfloridian]

10. I question, and I am paying dearly for it here.

Be careful, as it is a hot button issue. People are now afraid to even take sides with me on any issue because of the criticism that will follow.

I just want to know how we will survive as a country financially and morally. But I am now under fire for it.

Just wanted to let you know you are in good company, but most don't want to speak out anymore. I may not anymore if I wish to keep posting here.

I think Kerry will make a good president, but no one ever remembers that I say that. It is bad topic here. Be careful. I have seen you on other forums, I believe,and I like your posts.

[Jacobin]

20. You aren't alone

I'm used to getting shouted down about IraqNam. I got used to it being shouted down during Vietnam. After Kerry is elected, get ready to shout back, because Iraq is going down in a very very very bad way and someone is going to have to give Kerry some cover to have "peace with honor" or whatever that homily was we used to surrender Vietnam.

I've thought about those poor folks getting their homes bombed, their relatives blown up, their way of life destroyed, their country contaminated with depleted uranium, and zillions of cases of PTSD all day long.

[seabeyond]

11. talking to the choir here

people ahve been talking this since i have been on. talking to a friend about her buying a house the other day immediately went to now is the time to buy with bush economy, even with all the dumb f*ers thinking bush is doing terrif. and you dont need the money so dont sell til after kerry gets in and people are more at peace, market will get better

then i laughed, how i could get the bushie shit into every conversation

so with all i am doing in life, bringing bush into conversation, at the grocery store, school and every single moment of my day.........i am doing best i can, along with staying current and continuing educating self on all the shit happening every single day

want more. please, suggestions

oh and raising two kids totally aware of what is up so they will be aware and conscious adults

[Dancing_Dave]

31. The Choir is Now A Majority of the American People

Yes, a majority of Americans now think that Iraq is a terrible misguided mistake, and the percentage who even watch the TV News has declined dramatically because they can't stomach the propaganda anymore.

Kerry could win by mobilizing that choir with a clearly different ethical and political position on Iraq and U.S. "pre-emptive" wars.

Or he could lose because the Bush Gang can always elevate the degree of conflict and danger in the world, and crucify Kerry for his "waffling" in the dangerous hell we have created. I can't wait until he plays couch potatoe coach and criticizes a few of Bush's tactics in invading Iran or something like that too.

Bush holds all the cards, if Kerry lets that be the game.

[KamaAina]

12. I'm waiting to see whether it really turns out to be a disaster

as I strongly suspect it will, much like nearly everything else cursed by the Bush* reverse Midas touch.

[Jacobin]

22. Don't look now, but I think it already has.

[onecitizen]

13. So what are YOU doing?

And where have you been?

Lots and lots of discussion about the war here. Way before the war and still today. Not as much now but not because we're not interested. Right now the focus is on getting bush out of Al's house so we don't send anymore young people to fight Dick and george's wars.

[HEyHEY]

14. What? You're against the war?

Just kiddin, I don't think anyone here is "not daring" to discuss...it's just that it's been done to death.

[radwriter0555]

15. Dave, what solutions are you proposing?

We're voting for John Kerry, to start with.

But we've been working on ousting bush and exposing his regime of lies for the past 3 years.

[theboss]

16. I'm voting for Kerry

Short of burning down the Capitol, what else do you suggest we do?

[Jacobin]

17. Everyone is too busy swallowing Kerry's position condoning

the invasion.(oh but it wasn't done 'just so', in which case it would have all been just lovely) Not a good taste btw.

IraqNam is a ghastly, horrific, idiotic, geo-politically naive, savage, illegal, amoral mistake of epic proportions.

Getting out will be much harder than getting in. Probably 30-40% of DUers have the "we broke it we fix it" canard running through their brains about staying, as if Iraq is Pottery Barn.

Iraq will throw us out, whether it takes a year or ten years. They will NOT tolerate us staying in their country.

I can only hope Kerry is bright enough to find a way out, and not too arrogant to "look weak" by doing so. The longer we are there, the worse it will be for them and for us. Undoubtedly, some new strongman dictator or radical cleric will take over. Right now its OUR dictator. I say let them fight it out and pick their own.

[Qanisqineq]

18. oh, I dare to discuss it

Iraq is about the only discussion I do take part in on a regular basis (I mostly lurk with other topics). Don't say I don't care. I, and several others here, have "lived" it -- not physically being there, but have had/still have loved ones there. My husband was there, he's going back in 2005.

I get depressed every time I hear one of the troops have died, I get pissed off every time I hear an Iraqi civilian has died, and I get sick when I hear about all the "insurgents" being killed.

In fact, I care a helluva lot less about the freaking price of gas than I do about all the people dying.

[Jacobin]

21. LOVE your sig line

[Qanisqineq]

33. Thanks Jacobin!

:hi:

[onebigbadwulf]

24. Because the police will shoot us with beanbags

and they F-ing hurt

[H2O Man]

25. I told a little story the other month......

about this kid who went to school with my son, and who was in the same tent with him on scouting camp-outs, and who married a girl from their class, and went to Iraq. His hand was the biggest piece of his body returned for burial. He was blown up. And his life is over; his wife's a widow; and his parents -- who I know loved their son just as I love mine -- are left with a folded flag.

This war destroys individuals, families, communities, and may destroy two countries. Ending the war is obviously extremely important. But to do that, we need unity, not divisive loud-mouthed name-calling.

Electing Kerry is not the final solution. It's the first step in the right direction.

[leftchick]

26. Very sad story H20 Man....

and there are thousands of more like his to come thanks to bushco*s illegal war. You are so right, Electing John Kerry is the FIRST step in the right direction (in a very, very long time!) for this country.

[Uzybone]

27. Thanks for showing us the light

after all we never talk about the Iraq quagmire on this board do we now? :eyes:

[The Crazy Canadian]

28. The next few days will be interesting in Iraq.

[The Crazy Canadian]

29. The next few days will be interesting in Iraq.

The showdown in Najaf against Sadr forces may have a huge impact on the presidential election. It's a big gamble. It could go either way.

I have a sense that the Bush Admin wants to flex it's muscle to show that it can win, especially after its dismal efforts to take over Falluja. Something to point out at as a victory to the public, a turning point to stabilize Iraq.

If it fails and the fight is long and bloody, Iraq may definitely be lost for good.

[meow mix]

30. ummmmm, you must think your posting on some other board.

DU'ers dont DARE to discuss iraq? wtf?
maybe i just shifted to a backwards-dimension and havent noticed yet..

[Disturbed]

32. The Hand-Over That Wasn't:

The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy
by Antonia Juhasz

Officially, the U.S. occupation of Iraq ended on June 28, 2004. But in reality, the United States is still in charge: Not only do 138,000 troops remain to control the streets, but the "100 Orders" of L. Paul Bremer III remain to control the economy.

These little noticed orders enacted by Bremer, the now-departed head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, go to the heart of Bush administration plans in Iraq. They lock in sweeping advantages to American firms, ensuring long-term U.S. economic advantage while guaranteeing few, if any, benefits to the Iraqi people.

The Bremer orders control every aspect of Iraqi life - from the use of car horns to the privatization of state-owned enterprises. Order No. 39 alone does no less than "transition from a … centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat. Although many thought that the "end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the orders, on his last day in Iraq Bremer simply transferred authority for the orders to Prime Minister Iyad Allawi - a 30-year exile with close ties to the CIA and British intelligence.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-07.htm

[DrWeird]

34. The real question is...

why are there still people defending it?