Michael Moore loves America, just not John Kerry

[Joe Fields]

Possibly because of being snubbed over the convention credential flap, Moore spoke about Kerry in an interview with Julian Borger of the Guardian newspaper. These were definitely comments at the convention that should have been censored.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1270717,00.html

[aquart]

1. Michael Moore thought Nader was a good idea.

I still remember that, Michael.

[Joe Fields]

3. Many people seem to have lost sight of that fact.

[HuckleB]

6. Most people know that it's well past time to move on.

Get over it.

[mac56]

2. After all Mike has done for us

I think we can cut him some slack.

[Joe Fields]

4. He didn't do us any favors four years ago.

Maybe Farenheit 9/11 was his way of doing pennance.

[mac56]

7. And your point...?

Pretty goddamn good penance, I'd say.

[Joe Fields]

He's reaping plenty rewards for it, wouldn't YOU say?

[mac56]

11. Once again...your point being...?

God help us if MM should get rewarded for speaking truth to power.

[Joe Fields]

13. What is your point? Do you really believe he did it for us?

[mac56]

15. He did it to speak truth to power.

It has benefitted us immeasurably.

He's gotten recognized and rewarded for it.

I think any attempt to bash him, to question his motives, is petty, small-minded, and mean-spirited. Much like something one might read on another website I will not name.

[Joe Fields]

18. Whatever. God forbid I may have a different opinion than yours.

While on the one hand I realize that the movie itself benefits the Democratic cause, I also know all about the little tricks he uses throughout the movie to influence moviegoers. Juxtaposition, clever editing, soundbites (some taken out of context) and music make for a much more powerful movie. As a former documentary film student, I am reminded of Leni Riefenstahl. I am not blinded by the light. I prefer to see things as they really are. I've seen the movie and I like it because I believe most of what Moore puts out there is true, and because I want to believe it. But in the end, it's all about making money so that he can continue to make more films.

Maybe we owe him a thank you, but his comments to the Guardian were definitely counterproductive.

[mac56]

22. Whatever. God forbid I may have a different opinion than YOURS.

Mike knows exactly what he's doing. Distancing himself from Kerry seems like a very smart move, a good way to draw fire away - just the kind of fire you seem eager to train on him.

"Making money so that he can continue to make more films"? Good Christ, you mean he didn't do this for free?! Alert the media!!

Hate to say it, but your comments about F9/11 seem to echo right-wing talking points pretty closely.

[Joe Fields]

26. It seems to me that you delight in saying it.

Do you not feel it is counterproductive for Moore to make these comments about Kerry during this hot political season?

I hate to say it, but his shoot from the lip style doesn't serve us well at this time. Niether does your intolerance to opposing points of view. Now THAT seems more like right wing behavior to me.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Fields]

35. What does the length of my stay at DU have to do with anything?

[mac56]

36. Nothing! Only that I haven't welcomed you yet.

nm

[Kipepeo]

27. Why are they counterproductive?

It's BRILLIANT.

After Whoopi getting so much undeserved shit for her anti-bush comments it seems the only safe way for some Dem. celebrities to make their voices heard is to qualify their comments with "but I'm not endorsing Kerry, just speaking out against Bush."

What do you want from him?

If he comes out in support of Kerry, Kerry will just run from him and will be badgered by Repubs for weeks to "denounce" Moore's support.

This way Moore can say whatever the hell he likes about Bush and doesn't have to deal with being shat on by Democrats hoping to distance themselves from him in the process.

[Joe Fields]

28. Either way the Kerry campaign loses.

Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing.

[Kipepeo]

31. Wow.

I am glad people stand up and speak their convictions even when it's not popular.

If Moore had stayed silent Fahrenheit 9/11 would not have been made. I can't imagine what kind of world we'd live in if our mantra was just to zip it.

[Joe Fields]

37. This isn't about his movie. This is about him being adult

enough to know when to zip it himself.

[Kipepeo]

39. I still don't get why he should

have zipped anything in this case.

Just my opinion, but I see nothing 'dangerous' or wrong with this at all. If we spent half as much time nitpicking over what conservatives say and spamming the media with it, maybe we could actually frame the discourse instead of responding to what they've framed.

[Joe Fields]

62. It is because he is a celebrity who has thrown himself into

the middle of a highly charged political fray, and because of that, there are a great number of people who are interested in what the man has to say. What he says carries a great deal more weight than what you or I say. That being the case, people like him need to self-censor more than you and me.

[Kipepeo]

69. But Joe

I don't think he needs to self-censor at all. I think that's where we disagree. He can say whatever he wants. He's not running for election. And only he is responsible for what he says. Not Kerry.

[Cha]

49. Good Point! I ain't worried!

[Kipepeo]

25. YES

n/t

[StandUpGuy]

44. Listen

If by Us you mean people on DU no he didn't do it for us.

If Us means the Democratic party no he didn't do it for us.

If Us means the American people of all political stripes then YES he did it for us.

ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

Thats what you and all Moore haters sound like when you criticize his motives.

2000 wasn't about George bush and the evil empire. Gore lost because he couldn't get the millions of people who don't vote excited about his campaign.

Any vote Nader got Gore lost not had stolen.

[Joe Fields]

51. "You and all the Moore hater..." Really?

Please tell me more.

[StandUpGuy]

65. Tell you more ?

OK.

MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE I LOVE


Nice try though.


MM has done more to energize the American electorate than any other in the last 30 years.

Mr Bush is a close second.

edit:

On Larry King last night, King closes the interview with..

"If you haven't heard of F 9/11 ....What's the weather like on Pluto anyways"


You want to talk 100 million dollars. I look at it like 50 cents for every person he has made discuss the issue.

[JVS]

48. Maybe the world does not center around the Democratic party

pennance, laughable. Moore says and does what he thinks is true. I doubt he cares what some people in the Democratic party think he owes them.

[thebigidea]

8. No! Never! We've got to hold grudges!

Forget the fact that he brought AWOL and the Saudi flights business into the "mainstream" media - I wanna hate him anyway, because he doesn't like the same bands I do. In fact, I think his favorite color was NOT my favorite color several years ago. DAMN HIM!

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. I don't love John Kerry either.

So what? I want him elected and will vote for him. Same for Michael. That's all that matters. He IS out trying his best to get Kerry elected. What more could we ask for?

[HuckleB]

9. Exactly.

This piece doesn't show Michael Moore doing anything wrong.

[Joe Fields]

10. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Not a good time (during our convention) for Moore to dis Kerry. Should have kept his mouth shut.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Why?

He Directed F911, he enlightened MILLIONS of people with 911, is out rallying the Democrats to vote FOR Kerry and has said HIMSELF that he wants Kerry elected and is voting for him. He has even told Nader that 2004 is NOT the year to run. Geeez. Moore has done more to get Kerry elected than most. You don't have to say you love someone when you don't. Michael was being honest. Nothing wrong with that. IMCPO

[Joe Fields]

32. And so you think it was a good thing that he said what he did?

And at this particular time?

I disagree wholeheartedly.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. A good thing?

Not necessarily a "good" thing, but it isn't going to hurt Kerry. I haven't heard one mention of it here. Since that was in the Guardian, it probably won't be widely read here. It doesn't matter. He has the right to say whatever he wants to say. It's called Free Speech.

[Joe Fields]

38. You should be old enough to know that with the right to free speech

comes responsibility.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. I am an old fart, but that's beside the point.

:) What is so irresponsible about saying he doesn't LOVE Kerry? I just don't see it as irresponsible. I see it as speaking the truth. I LIKE the truth.

[Joe Fields]

52. Truth is one thing. But you are confusing two different

propositions. And since you are an old fart, you must know that, not only would it be impolite to tell an ugly person that they are ugly, but that there may be risk involved, and that, ultimately it serves no good purpose. The same can be said about Moore's unfortunate remarks. What good purpose do they serve?

[in_cog_ni_to]

55. But he said no such thing.

I read the article. He did not say...."I do not love John Kerry." He never said that. This thread is MOOT...as I said below.

Michael Moore has been anti-war forever. He's NOT going to change his stance on that just for Kerry. Neither will I. He will vote for him. He will work in FL. to make sure everything is on the up and up. He is doing everything in his power to get him elected. The farther away he is from the campaign....the better. Then, if he says something the Kerry camp doesn't like, they can say...."Michael Moore does not speak for us." If he doesn't endorse the Kerry campaign the RW assholes won't be able to attribute ANYTHING Moore says to the Kerry campaign. See how that works? :hi:

[Joe Fields]

59. That is your opinion. I do not share it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. That's cool!

Now, I am going to have a beer! Join me? :toast:

[PassingFair]

63. You've gotta be kidding...

who are you, Ari Fleisher? Should we all begin to "watch what we say"?
ABB, ABB, ABB.

[StandUpGuy]

50. Moore has done more to get people to vote

With one movie than ANY Politician has in the last 30yrs.

Except Bush Jr maybe.


Maybe thats why you hate so much.

Moore might just have a critical mass of people willing to vote which ever way he asks them to.

that must scare the pants off the Any But Bush crowd.

Imagine Moore demanding some clarity from Kerry on some important Left wing issues.

HOW DARE HE

ABB makes me sick.

[Joe Fields]

53. You're absolutely right. I nominate him for sainthood.

[Kipepeo]

29. What?

If he had supported Kerry there would be those here saying it was not a good time for him to associate himself with Kerry and he should have kept his mouth shut.

Here's an idea: why don't we let people say whatever the f*ck they want?

edited for typo

[LunaC]

12. He's smart to distance himself from Kerry

Now he can keep smacking down Bush without having it negatively reflect on Kerry who wants to tone down the bashing anyway. Best of both worlds.

[dennis4868]

14. I dont like Kerry either....

he gave Bush authorization to start the war if all else failed....well all else did not fail and Bush still started the war...that was not Kerry's fault...but still Kerry trusted Bush enough to vote for authorization...overall, I am not big on Kerry...he does not inspire me and make me want to run out and vote for him as President.

However, this election is NOT ABOUT POLITICS. There is a cancer in the WH and it must be dealt with and taken out. If a sock was running against Bush I would be voting for the sock. I really do not care what Kerry stands for and what his platform is. I just want my government back where it will again be by the people, for the people, and of the people. Kerry is my only hope to get rid of the cancer....

[seabeyond]

16. moore liked nader, then not. moore liked dean

then not. (said you was a something or other, full of himself)

moore supports kerry, then not

that is cool. i still take his expression. i do see a pattern though, and the coolest, he doesnt have to be a fan, would be nice, but his to do

[HuckleB]

19. Umm. Moore was a Clark supporter in the primary.

Not Dean.

And where do you get that he doesn't support Kerry, or that he did but no longer doesn't?

[NYCGirl]

20. I don't think Moore ever "endorsed" or backed Dean or Kerry.

He's been consistent on getting Bush out of office, though.

[seabeyond]

40. ty for correction all

also just watched moore on cnn. was interesting, and he absolutely back kerry. emphatically

[MichiganVote]

17. Actually on c-span today Moore

praised Nader for his efforts but stated that his job was done, that people like Dean have carried his message on and that the Democratic party of 2000 is not the party of 2004. Moore asserted that he did believe that Kerry would "ever" take us into a war (Iraq) as George Bush has.

[Solly Mack]

23. Loving America means holding her feet to the fire

It means dissent. It means having the courage to say what needs to be said no matter how unpopular it is to say it. It means you demand the best of America - no matter who happens to be sitting in the Whitehouse.

If people made excuses for their children in the same manner they excuse the outrages, abuses, and hypocrisy of their own nation, America would be a country of Columbines. (oh wait...)

[The Crazy Canadian]

24. Good luck in trying to censor Moore

Moore is doing more to energize people then Kerry is, for what i can tell.

[Joe Fields]

33. Moore should be old enough to know when to censor himself.

[misanthrope]

41. Take note:...

...Who invited Moore into the convention the other night? Who had no problem being associated with him?

Answer: Who was the last POTUS to truly embody Democratic ideals?

I guess you think JC is a shrill, counterproductive burden, too.

[Joe Fields]

54. That is pretzel logic if I ever heard it.

Surely you can do better. I offered up some information on Moore that should disturb Democrats. But there seem to be people here who believe he can do no wrong.

So you are defending his unfortunate remarks?

Personally, I don't think Mr. Moore has a clue as to where his loyalties lay.

[misanthrope]

68. I think...

...Brecker and Fagen said "pretzel logic" is the best kind!

Maybe his loyalties lie with what he sees as the proper course for the country ABOVE the pettiness and imposed impotence of party politics.

[depakid]

42. That's not the headline of the article-

And it- like your less than pithy post, also misrepresents what the article said.

All it states is that Moore hasn't endorsed Kerry and that he's not involved in the campaign.

Moore says that he believes it will be a landslide and that the election is Kerry's to lose- though Democrats have a long history of blowing it.

Seems to me, that's a pretty accurate statement-

[Joe Fields]

57. Pithy? Go back and read the dictionary.

Pithy does not even come close to applying in this case.

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. pithy.

Main Entry: pithy
Pronunciation: 'pi-thE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): pith·i·er; -est
Date: 1562
1 : consisting of or abounding in pith
2 : having substance and point : tersely cogent
synonym see CONCISE
- pith·i·ly /'pi-th&-lE/ adverb
- pith·i·ness /'pi-thE-n&s/ noun

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy


:hi:

[depakid]

67. The key word being cogent

American Heritage College Dictionary (3rd Edition):

Pithy: Precisely meaningful.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

That will teach me to read an article before taking the poster's words as TRUTH!

Michael Moore never said anything CLOSE to what you said in your post. This entire thread is MOOT! Sheesh! :eyes:

[BurtWorm]

46. "The Democrats are very skilled at blowing it."

Great quote! :thumbsup:

[Wind Dancer]

47. Doesn't sound like what he said yesterday

when he spoke at one of the events.

http://www.truthout.org/dnc-wednesday.shtml

Scroll down and click on the right - Moore was supportive of Kerry.

[K-W]

56. I get the feeling Moore hates his position.

I think he just wants to make movies. I think he feels that he has an obligation to use his position to work politics, but he wishes he didnt have to and he isnt comfortable in the role.

[geek tragedy]

58. Good. Moore and Kerry should be seen as distant from each other.

Kerry doesn't want a Michael Moore endorsement.

[pinballer]

64. mindless automatons

""I offered up some information on Moore that should disturb Democrats. But there seem to be people here who believe he can do no wrong.
Personally, I don't think Mr. Moore has a clue as to where his loyalties lay.""____________Joe Fields.

Here's the bottom line, sir;

Michael Moore doesn't like Kerry's stance on the war.

I don't either.

What do you expect Moore and me and other people who disagree on the war to do??

Just emulate the ignorant RightWingers and fall into lock step like a goddamned KKKonserva-zombie and support the party's candidate no matter what??!

I despise Bush, but I cannot and WILL NOT vote for a man (Kerry) who agreed to the war against Iraq and who will simply be a continuation of the murderous, nationalistic, pro-militarist, pro-war policies of BushCo.

[geek tragedy]

66. Then what are you doing here?

If you're not going to help get rid of Bush, why are you on a site called democraticunderground?

Go play with Ralph Nader.