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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:09 AM
Original message
Tom Daschle's tough race for Senate
Gee, looks like all his pandering to the Republicans, with requisite ass-kissing and capitulating to everything from the PATRIOT Act to the anti-gay legislation in Congress to tax cuts to Iraq hasn't helped him in his race, has it?

Right-wing nut Thune is neck in neck with him.

Let this be a lesson to other pink tu-tu Democrats. Your silence and acquiescence will NOT save you.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oy vey.
:eyes:
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zaj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thought you might "like" (hate) reading this SD Dems' opinion of Daschle
I copied/pasted it from a mostly conservative football message board. (FYI, it's not my post.)

=-=-=-
Personally, I don't back a Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage...unless activist judges make it absolutely necessary....

However, Tom Daschle, the Senate minority leader from SD cast a "no" vote on the bill yesterday. In a state where over 60% of voters support the Amendment, and in a close election with a talented and popular former Republican Congressman as his opponent....

If it we were NY or MA or Hawaii, he'd be just fine. But not in SD; I'd be willing to bet he just signed his own pink slip.

He just LOST re-election; and he will become the poster boy warning politicians of the serious "fall out" of opposing the voters in conservative states....where this controversial and divisive issue WILL matter.

As a Democrat, I'll be sorry to see his "influence" as minority leader be "lost" for SD.

However, ever since he became minority leader, he's moved from being a DLC-centrist Democrat who was occasionally a maverick in the party (a good thing in my mind,) to being a bleeding-heart, NE brand, wacko liberal of the Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin mold.

Many in the state needed a good excuse to get rid of him. And he just gave it to them. So much for the trappings of "power" we've enjoyed for the past several years....
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. My point still stands
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 02:31 AM by Brian_Expat
Daschle caved to Bush on everything from the Iraq War to the PATRIOT Act and, in the end, it did not save him.

However, ever since he became minority leader, he's moved from being a DLC-centrist Democrat who was occasionally a maverick in the party (a good thing in my mind,) to being a bleeding-heart, NE brand, wacko liberal of the Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin mold

I've warned conservative Democrats that Republicans would do this even if they were to the right of DeLay, but they laughed and ignored me.

Well guess what? It's happening anyway.

Their acquiescence to the Republicans did not help them.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Other than the PA and the IWR, name one legislative "success" Bush has had
while Daschle has stood guard, and also explain how those two things will turn out to be successes for Bush.

If Kerry beats Bush, people better get ready to thank Daschle, because not only has he been standing at the dam with his finger in the hole preventing the worst shit coming down, he's also pretty much left Bush with nothing to run on. I don't see him bragging to the religious right about all his extreme RW legislative successes.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Other than the two biggest outrages of this administration?
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 02:39 AM by Brian_Expat
Oy vey.

Thanks for illustrating my point!

These were the two biggest things for Daschle to oppose -- to do his job as leader when it wasn't an "easy" thing to do -- and he flubbed on both of them.

It didn't save him in the end, did it?
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. unfortunately...
Bush will point to No Child Left Behind, which Ted Kennedy helped him pass, as well as the Medicare Prescription Plan.

and, he will count on the downside of NCLB and Medicare being too difficult to explain in soundbites
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. NCLB is a failure because Bush didn't fund it. He can't brag about it.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Remember Max Clelland? Had Daschle opposed IWR he would be behind
Thune by 15 now.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. To follow up with you AP
What about all the Judges being blocked? SOme people here have an agenda to try to sway Democrats from Democrats & I think it's disgusting. If they would spend half as much time heling them as to bashing them, life would be so much easier against the Repukes.

Daschle is a good man He always has close races, but as usual He will win this one also despite what some people say here.

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm not "swaying Democrats from Democrats"
I am simply making the observation that in the end, Daschle's undeniable embrace of Bush's agenda did not save him.
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Fed Up Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Daschle better start telling constituents that his high post is good for
South Dakota. If Thune wins, Thune won't be majority/minority leader in the Senate.

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's too late
Who is going to fight for Daschle now, except the most partisan of Democrats? That would be enough IF the state wasn't South Dakota.
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Daschle will win in the end.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. the fact Daschle supported those things is why he is doing as good as he
is. otherwise he would be far behind and most likely lose. tim johnson and stephanie herseth both had close elections just as daschle did in his last election. but just the fact that the entire congressional delegation from south dakota is democratic now is in large part to the hard work of tom daschle.

tim johnson was one of the few democrats to win in 2002 elections.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Perhaps you are right and I am wrong
But then the question becomes. . . why should the "Democratic leader" be someone who votes like a Republican to keep a Republican seat?

I'd understand the argument that "we have to back him even if he is a Democrat in Name Only" -- but party leadership for someone with that agenda? No way!

Can you imagine the Republicans nominating Lincoln Chaffee as their leader?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. democrats in senate voted for him
including people like ted kennedy, russel feingold, paul wellstone etc. tom daschle is a very good politician and one of his biggest assets is he is easily liked and no matter how much he may be attacked or criticized for whatever reason. usually there are people who are "expected" to take leadership positions in the senate but daschle wasn't one of them but he was a good at persuading those in the senate to vote for him. he had a lot to do with jeffords making a final switch to independent also.

also, i would not equate democrats making daschle leader with republicans making chaffee leader. it would be a better comparison if democrats made someone like zell john breaux leader. daschle is much less conservative than breaux is even though louisiana is a far more democratic state.

but for those who complain about daschle being leader, they should complain to the other senators who vote for him to be leader. personally i don't have a problem with him being leader and in fact like it.
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monarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Only 24 Senate Democrats voted for him
and Kennedy was not among them. I have spent a fruitless half hour trying to find the actual vote but I know that Kerry was the only New England Democrat to vote for Daschle (column in Hartford Courant by Michelle Jacklin). My guess would be that Feingold and Wellstone would have voted for Dodd as the more liberal of the two but the actual vote hasn't turned up in my internet search.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. well Dodd isn't all that either, at least Daschle brings additional
democrats to the senate since a small state like south dakota likes having someone from their states with a high position.

it's not as if some more liberal person is challenging him , especially in more recent times. and the other democrats can continue saying whatever they want as kennedy, byrd, feingold etc have done. i think people blame daschle for too much that doesn't have much to do with him.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. If you read My Life, the kind of Democrat Clinton is always the most...
...impressed by isn't the Democrat who easily wins heavily Democratic seats. It's the Democrat who figures out a way to win in heavily Republicans districts.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Those do impress me a lot too
How we have six democrats representing the Dakotas in the house and senate both just amazes me, lemme explain, we have Byron Dorgan and Kent Conrad who are democratic senators from North Dakota who win by nice margins and the rep is Earl Pomeroy and South Dakota has Tim Johnson and Tom Daschle, and their dem rep is Stephanie Herseth. There are actually many progressive dems who represent districts that werent landslide victories for Gore or even Bush victories, before he retired, David Bonior of Michigan represented a district that voted for Bush, and David Obey of Wisconsin represents a district Bush nearly won.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. And each one of those Dems is probably deeply committed to progressive
values and has found a brilliant ways to incorporate those values into a political persona and strategy that gets them elected in districts that would never elect a Ted Kennedy or Bernie Sanders.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. right, I agree completely
It takes a special person to be able to win in a district that votes for the opposite political view yet it happens more so with dem congress people in places that vote republican. Daschle doesnt represent people like me or most of us, we cant expect him to agree with us on everything, we should of course expect him to stand up for basic democratic values and hes done an apt job of that, South Dakotans are far different than us, so I think that we have to be pretty ignorant to believe that Daschle should just agree with us on everything. People say Kerry and Bush are one and the same but there is a huge differance between even the most conservative democrat Bush. A congressperson's duty is to represent his constiuents best interests, and personally Daschle does that for South Dakota, he gets them a lot of help that a republican senator could not, and thats why many who voted for Bill Janklow in '94 also supported Daschle.
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Zidane Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. It is a big mistake
to have a dem party leader from a state that is not solid blue. You are correct - they have to cave in all the time, and that is not good for the party as a whole.
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. If the looses at least we will have the chance of selecting a
senate leader with a set of nuts. He has been a Bu*h enabler and coward on everything, as far as judges he has already made a deal with the shrub that the shrub will vioalte and dis him just before the election. Remeber the senate is lost and will likley become 2/3 repugnant in Nov, we have five sothern dems retiring and we will loose Kerry's seate also. Were in deep do do.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. Daschle was against the gay marriage amendment
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
22. If Thune wins, you'll be wishing Daschle had won (nt)
nt
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Whats Thune's record like?
typically conservative right. I dont like all the legislation Daschle has supported but hes not representing people like me in the senate.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
23. Both Senator Edwards and General Clark...
have sent out fundraising letters for Senator Daschle. I don't think either of them qualify as a "pink tu-tu" Democrat. While Senator Daschle may not be the firebrand some want him to be, he's been a pretty good leader in the Senate and is responsible for deposing Trent Loot (and I spelled it that way deliberately) from Majority Leader. We can't afford to lose him, like it or not.
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CaTeacher Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Is Daschle going to speak at the
convention? I know he doesn't have a prime time speaking slot--but does he have any on-air time at all?
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I dont believe he's gonna be speaking
not sure though.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thune has a good ad out
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 09:48 PM by Yupster
It's kinda dopey with his teenage daughters the stars, but I think it's a real good one.

Still the best senate ads I've ever seen were Wellstone's bus ads.

PS -- If you ever see Thune's ad with his daughters think of the Bush twins making that same ad for W. I think it would be a scream with them each holding a beer bottle and maybe one riding a mechanical bull. The worst part is it would probably be effective and get him votes.
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