c-span 2 ..(from 7-7-04) DRE session.. I think repubes are scared too

[SoCalDem]

Could it be that they fear that "hackers" might be able to take THEIR votes too???

The whole DRE thing is BI-PARTISAN...and it needs to go..

The whole reason for all the hoo-haw about ballots is because states and districts clog up their elections with tons of ballot initiatives, that LOTS of people do not even care about..

Most people go to vote for senator/congresspeople/president..

Most people don't care that much about the rest, so the obvious solution is a SINGLE PIECE of PAPER..and an indelible MARKING PEN..

name.........
name.........
name.........
name.........


mark the one you vote for...

these would fit in a SINGLE COLUMN

a second page for all the ballot initiatives..
if they choose to NOT vote on them, oh well.. Lots of those initiatives are bullshit issues anyway..paid for by corporate interests..


WHY IS THIS SO DAMN HARD?????????

[Philostopher]

1. It's amazing, isn't it?

As paranoid as some conservatives are about so many things, that it didn't occur to them earlier that hackers might not all hack for Republicans, I mean. If they sit down and think about all the 'script kiddies' they read about, it should scare the daylights out of them, too. If this stuff is so vulnerable to tampering, it smells funny that they think Republicans are the only ones who can tamper.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. At a Meet-up in May...........

one of the other attendees stated that we didn't have to worry about the repubs stealing electronically cast votes in the election this year because the Democrats have better hackers : ^ )

[SoCalDem]

3. I think that's what they finally realized..

:evilgrin:

It just anoys me to no end..that they keep droning on and on..Paper..Pen..lockbox.. why make it more difficult..??

300 people in a precinct.. 200 show up to vote.. 200 ballots..

a chalk board.. a piece of chalk.. counters and watchers.. two locks on the box.. a dem has one key...and repube has one key...

problem solved :)

the initiatives and "other" issues on the second ballot can bu run thru an optical scan machine later.. What's the BIG deal???

[Philostopher]

4. I have a German friend on an arts mailing list.

He says they still vote this way in the Munich 'burbs -- paper ballot, felt tip pen, lockbox. He can't understand why we'd want to do it any other way, and I'm inclined to agree with him.

Here in my precinct we use punch cards with a stylus. It's the first place I ever voted that did it precisely that way -- I've done lever-pull everywhere else -- but I have to say even that isn't too bad, as long as they keep their counts straight. In the voting, at least, I don't see much margin for 'user error' or messing up, and I've never had a voting box so full you couldn't punch all the way through the ballot. That shouldn't ever be a problem, though I know it was in some places in 2000 (heard horror stories that in some places there were several elections' worth of chads in the box, etc.).

On edit -- no 'buttefly ballots' here -- the issues/candidates are only on one side of each ballot card.

There are four poll-watchers for each precinct of about a thousand, here. One checks your name against the book while the other witnesses your signature; the third hands you the ballot and the fourth watches you put it in the bag. It ain't supposed to be rocket science. Our ballot pads here are numbered, so barring an unusual number of spoiled ballots, you should be able to come within ten percent of a total by the end of the night simply by checking the pad numbers against the voter manifests.

I don't know if they hand-count or machine-count them, but the way the machines we use are designed, it's pretty difficult to spoil or 'dimple' a ballot -- the stylus goes all the way through.

But you're absolutely right that simply doing a numbered pad of ballots and marking them with an indelible marker would solve any possible fraud. It works in Germany, I know that much.

[TrogL]

5. The Canadian federal elections

were just held nationally using paper ballots. It was all counted and the results known in time for the 11 p.m. news (in B.C. anyway, your timezone may vary).

Of course it's a lot simpler in a Parliamentary system. Pick your party, then mark off one candidate with an X (you can get away with a checkmark or filling it).

Ballot initiatives and all that other crap are held in other elections.