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October Surprise: It's WAR in Iran - we have LUNATICS running our country

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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:29 PM
Original message
October Surprise: It's WAR in Iran - we have LUNATICS running our country
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 03:10 PM by jackstraw45
It appears that the Bush administration is moving UP plans to attack Iran from 2005 to 2004 for an election year boost in polls right before the election.

Look for a Gulf of Tonkin type, US created incident to spark US airstrikes in October in Iran leading to full war later.

We really do have homicidal maniacs running our country.

And if the current Faux-talking points-administration spin sounds familiar, read the "case" made by Bush* for war with Iraq in October 2002...they are using a LOT of the same talking points NOW for Iran:

President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/print/2...

" Tonight I want to take a few minutes to discuss a grave threat to peace, and America's determination to lead the world in confronting that threat.

The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. ..It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith."
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Will the 'mighty' Persia bend and break ? ....
OR will she gird her loins and resist ? ...

Will it be 'shock and awe' ? .... or will it be 'flash and burn out' ? ...

The madmen really dont know: but whatever they say: I wouldnt believe their word ...
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. The "mighty" Persian troops will have 250,000 Russian troops assisting
them...Bush better get the draft first or he's going to put the country into an awful predicament... By the way, I do not support invading Iran and, by extension, I do not support a draft. But, if he is stupid enough to do such a thing, he'd better round up all his Young Republican friends and give them a gun...
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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. And what the fuck troops are we going to invade with, exactly?
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I Think The Boy And Cub Scouts Are Free At The Moment
Or maybe Dimbo can draft the Penguins in "Little America."
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
48. And don't forget
the Bush twins.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Love your sig graphic.
:thumbsup:
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. This is Dems Will Win. There are plenty of troops.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 02:43 PM by Dems Will Win
Just declare Iran a new theater and you are not double-deploying to the same theater of war.

Then you have hundreds of thousands of troops, including those who were just in Iraq, now eligible to go to the new theater: Iran.

Just change the "Q" to an "N".

Sorry to be the bearer of bad, no horrible news.

PLUS! Don't forget the IRR and the 100,000 + retired troops there. Then after that, the DRAFT! That's why

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Airstrikes in 04...
followed by invasion in 2005. We're not building FOURTEEN military bases in Iraq for the weather.

Oh yeah, it's called a DRAFT in early 2005.

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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. who needs troops when you've got nukes?
My prediction: Bush will nuke Iran before he leaves office
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. Not sure if I'd go that far....
I don't see us using nukes right now....they are going to develop "tactical" nukes but I don't think those exist yet, do they?
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. of course they do
Google nuclear weapons. You will learn more than you ever really wanted to know. There is a lot of information on the net, good information.

180
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Oh, God no! I used to say I did not have time to hate. I HATE Bush
and his warmongering, I despise our congress and other "leaders".
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Very, very unlikely.
Not enough troops, not enough money, not enough support. People in this country won't buy it and Congress won't authorize it. Bush has no credibility left.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Right now they won't...an orchestrated attack on the US
will sway public favor.

You give this criminal administration too little credit for their propaganda machine.

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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. agreed
MIHOP/LIHOP/Whatever -- the bounce for the NeoCon ideology from Sept 11 that enabled the invasion of Iraq has dissipated, and they need another "Pearl Harbor" to prove what a dangerous world this is to justify their existance.

It will be "found" to be the work of Iranians. Even if all the perpetrators are Pakistanis carrying autographed pictures of Prince Bandar inscribed "Good luck, boys!"
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. I agree
It just won't fly with the American public. I may be too optimistic, but I have faith that it just won't be feasible. They'll rattle their swords and puff themselves up, but I just don't see it happening. But just in case, we've got to get Bush outta' there.
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Kickin_Donkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. I wish it were true that it won't fly with the ...
American public. But I had thought the same thing about an invasion of Iraq.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think that's quite possible.
You may be right. They must surely see the writing on the wall by now, and realize there's no way in hell they can win the election, or even steal it with electronic voting.

They may realize the only way they're going to get their war in Iran is to commit the US to it before the elections. If they get enough of a bounce to win, so much the better (for them). But either way, they can commit the US to another bloody conflict.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gulf of Tonkin Resolution = Strait of Hormez Resolution
watch very carefully where the bulk of U.S. carrier strength is for the rest of the year. An incident will be staged to act as cover while we strike Iran's nuclear facilities under false pretenses.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Staged or provoked.
But Israel will strike Iran only if Iran gets nuke fuel from Russia and that's not supposed happen until 2005. It makes you wonder if B*sh is in a chest thumping match with Sharon about who will hit Iran first.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Sharon and Bush have the same goal.
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 03:23 PM by wuushew
But from a tactical standpoint it is much harder to launch planes from Israel to destroy suspected nuclear sites and return intact. The distances are not trival and even discounting occupied Iraq, strike planes would still have to overfly other Arab territories.

Launching from the sea, the U.S. navy could launch multiple and heavy strikes on all the targets to ensure success of the mission. If the airforce was involved it could only employ heavy bombers from Diego Garcia since I am sure the countries surrounding Iran would be less than enthusiastic about allowing overflights for such a purpose.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. Either DC is is hermetically sealed and totally unaware of the anti-war...
...mood in this country or they really are going to stop the election. B*sh cannot go to war with Iran and then win the election--Tonkin or no Tonkin.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I don't know- they might be able to swing people around, if
they can portray action in Iran as defensive, or at least retaliatory.

Like Reagan did with Libya. He had planes fly into Libyan airspace, and when they were fired on, the Reagan administration claimed US forces had been attacked by Libya in international waters.

They could provoke some sort of small exchange like that, and say Iran attacked US forces. It wouldn't take much- and our mainstream media certainly wouldn't question the White House version of events.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Is that more natural gas I smell?
sniff sniff...

(for the literal minded: yes, I know it's odorless)
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MattNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. we are not going to invade Iran anytime soon
if ever.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. We don't have the troops.
We don't even have enough in Iraq, they say. How can we send more somewhere else?
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. You could be right....
It's going to be a close call....with IRAN moving quickly towards becoming "invasion proof"....WHY....because of our preemptive strike against Iraq (duh).

People have been discussing the potential pros and cons of surgical strikes...but Iran has been smart to SPREAD OUT their capability ....and we would potentially look like mindless aggressors.....even worse than now in Iraq.

So you have to wonder.

You have a real powder keg and potential cold war in the making between Iran and Israel. This nuclear standoff has been supercharged as a result of our preemptive actions.

Iran has been smart to move out and develop the nuke capability....after all...it would be the only real way to keep us out.

Witness US relations with Korea....why do we conduct ourselves in a more mature way?....due to nukes of course.

So why WOULDN'T they want nukes????????????
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Bush wouldn't need Congressional approval
He could take a pre-emptive strike as a National Defense Issue...

at least, that's what he would claim.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. The War Powers Act gives the President 90 days free reign
he can destroy a lot of shit in 90 days and still be with in the letter of the law.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Isn't the Navy massed out in the Pacific right now, though?
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. bush* mis-remembered Lincoln's 'quip'
bush* thinks it said ...."you can fool me once and you can fool all the people all the time...."

looks like the only think standing between "to invade or not to invade" is the media asking tough questions and congress not signing a blank check

:gulp: we're in trouble....
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Turanga Leela Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. I hear the same talking points too...I thought I was going crazy...
...or being paranoid.

But I'm not. This is the same path they used to gin up the "case" against Iraq.

I feel absolutely sick to my stomach. I can't BELIEVE that TPTB would be so brazen, stupid, and evil as to take that road again.

And the people at large will swallow the poison, won't they?

Of course they will. And they'll think it tastes like candy.

My God, the world has gone insane.

:scared:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
28. It is my considered belief that we will go to war with Iran regardless
of who wins the election, just like we will have a draft regardless of who wins the election.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. But the draft needs to be voted on by Congress
Are you saying there will be no politcal price to be paid by the pro-war dems? Eventually these people will have to answer tough questions in primary battles. This could be the welcome beginning of a purge of hawkish centerists from the party.

Even the GOP might not vote along straight party lines. Libertarian and Pat Buchannan types might vote their consciences as well.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I am saying there will be no choice but to reinstate the draft regardless
of what anybody thinks about it.

The only other option is to pull our troops out of Iraq and not invade Syria, Iran, North Korea, or any other nation the PNACers in control of the two party system in this nation want to invade.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. Alternate futures
Absolutely correct. if not now, when? Whenever, if Bush is plunging ahead with his supporters. Iran has always been an active case. There has been no stepping back because of the debacle in Iraq. In fact, it still may be completely on schedule, considering Cheney's usual bravura in denying any reality that may interfere with the agenda. (Deficits? Don't matter? Terrorists? Invade Iraq.)

However, plans and implementation are still flexible, judging from other ground laying campaigns in the past. Starting in 2000 the RW had laid groundwork, much ignored as the Iranian stuff is now, that obviously showed a wide effort(from philosophical underpinnings to strategy) to get rid of the electoral college college should W have lost that and won the popular vote. Also was much talk about stealing the election in the House, also much ignored, though highly visible.

Not everything happens, but the main thing anything is possible if it fulfills their needs. And count on no one else calling them on this parade to war when it is possible to expose and stop them. Instead they grant them all the points in justification of their crimes because our enemies are not "pure". With checks and balances like that, look out world!
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midnight armadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. I think it's sabre rattling
It's part of the Keep America Afraid strategy. I don't see an attack on Iran this fall. They would already have to be building up supplies and troops to accomplish this. Unlike Iraq, Iran is very mountainous, and they have a much larger, and loyal, army that has not been decimated by sanctions for 10 years. Invading Iran would not be easy (note that Iraq tried for, what, 6 years?) and a much larger US force would be needed.

That larger US force doesn't exist without stripping soldiers from all over the world to send to the ME. You'd need a draft first given the current overextended nature of the military.

Now, I expect to see plenty of ominous warnings and statements about Iran and the Axis of Evil, but no war. Not yet.
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Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Here's what PNAC said back in march 1.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iran-20040301.pdf

Don't have time to read it at the moment though.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. "Do unto them before they have a chance to do unto you." - Neocon Psycos
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 03:45 PM by jackstraw45
Those neocons LOVE their wars....

"If the Bush administration is serious about
transforming the Muslim Middle East- and the jury is
still out on whether it is- it will inevitably unsettle, if
not alienate, every single "pro-American" king, emir, and
dictator in the region. The issue of weapons of mass destruction is thus an ideal wedge for the realist camp."

"The realist vision of Iranian politics and U.S.-Iranian
relations has zero chance of providing a solution to the
WMD conundrum. The Bush administration needs to
hang tough and be guided by the golden rule of Iranian
clerical politics: Do unto them before they have a chance
to do unto you.
"
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. Rest assured, John Kerry chaired the origional
"October Suprise" hearings. He made it clear (to me anyway) that ray-gun and bushie sr were likely guilty of treason.

John Kerry will kick some more bush ass this November.
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. Iran has 2.5 times the population of Iraq...
and we all know how well things are going over there. :nuke:
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
39. CNN Wolf Blitzer has pushing Iran stuff all day-sounds just like Iraq
yup

another shocknawe
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anakie Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. to paraphrase George Orwell
we are at war with IraN. We have always been at war with IraN. All the Winston Smiths are working away changing this right now.

KICK THAT FUCKER OUT OF OFFICE
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
41. It is probably AN October suprise
I am suprised that BushCo et al are so brazen...it is as if they are saying to America: "which will we use to slant the elections: a war in Iran or a carefully timed terra alert in a pretty orange or red?" An invasion of Iran is an inevitablity in a BushCo run world. The cabal has been champing at the bit to go after Iran, Syria, and North Korea too. Trust me...they take every chance they get. The media will be complicit, and make sure that all the sheeple of the US of A are waving their flags high for our lord and Savior Dubya. Though it is an inevitablity, I cannot say for CERTAIN that it is an "October Suprise." He may use something more minor to fix things the way he wants them and save Iran for later. The Cabal has opened yet another can of worms. They do not see it, but they are like those folks that used to be on Ed Sullivan that spun all the plates. Too many plates on sticks there Dubya.

At any rate, they probably think that Iran is going to be an easy target. Bunch of third world "towel heads," they probably think. Well, Iraq, with its ugly realities is going to look like a cakewalk at Club Med compared with any Iranian campaign. The Arab world is not going to allow the US to keep coming in and setting up little satilite puppet states. The Europeans are not going to be very warm to the idea. The UN will probably say something, but that organization has proven to be a useless rubber stamp. No, the US is like the gang of bullies on the playground, and Shrub is the head of the gang.
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Soth Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. I've often wondered...
what it would be like if roles from the past were reversed and the US became the evil, conquering country, with the rest of the world trying to stand up against us and fight for freedom.

Yay, now maybe I can finally find out.

I want to vomit.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
43. Take all the old Iraq speeches, Unka Dick
and put in Iran instead of Iraq. See it's real cool cuz you only have to change one letter instead of the whole word...

Unka Dick: that's FUCKING cool!

Chucklenuts: Cool it Unka Dick, so anyway, it's this just FABULOUS?? I can use the SAME SHIT!!!

Unka Dick: Wheee! I have to go fuck myself now!

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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
44. kicking
Keep aware...keep spreading the word.

MOST people you know DON'T know the truth about this Iranian situation...keep that in mind!

FAUX is brainwashing them with White House talking points day and night.

We are truly living in a bizarro time in American history.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
46. If they pick a fight with Iran,
they are truly insane and you might actually see civil war in this country.

Iran's air power and army is in excellent shape and a more fromidable opponent than Iraq was. Not to mention that Syria might start shooting.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
Distrusting the Government Since 1984
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