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Suddenly, Joe Wilson is the liar...

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:42 AM
Original message
Suddenly, Joe Wilson is the liar...
don't you love how these right-wing assholes turn black into white, night into day and on ad naseum. Now Joe Wilson is the liar. William Safire, the prick himself, has a diatribe in the NYTimes about how bushs'* 16 words were now PROVEN to be true. I'd put up the link but I don't want to post Saffires bullshit. They must be close to wrapping up the Plame case cause the shit against Wilson is appearing daily. I detect the odor of KKKarl Rove. Don't forget that he learned at the feet of Lee Atwater.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Matt has a good discussion of where this stands here:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I liked esp the summary - and the suggested alt wording for the SOTU
The summary: "So far, we've known that the Niger-uranium claim was based on (a) forged documents, (b) an Italian summary of the forged documents, (c) a French analysis of the forged documents, and (d) UK intelligence's conviction that the claim was true. The UK was, in turn, basing its analysis on (a) forged documents, and (b) a mysterious second source. Today, via Laura Rozen the Guardian reports that the second UK source "almost certainly" came from France. Does that mean the second source was really the same forgery passed around again through a different route? Hard to say. It would be nice to hear from UK intelligence why, if Iraq tried to get the yellowcake, it didn't succeed in getting the yellowcake. Assuming the attempt was made, knowing why it failed is pretty crucial to knowing what to think about it. "

and the suggested alternative SOTU wording: "The British believe, although the CIA does not, that Iraqi recently sought uranium from Africa. There is no evidence that any transaction ever took place, and it wouldn't make sense anyway because Saddam couldn't use it, already had plenty, and would have taken several years to ramp up enrichment. Therefore, there is no rush."

sigh -

but a nice summary of a Iraq amb statement to Niger that they would like to increase commercial ties being made into what the Niger informant described as an "unspoken" question about yellow cake.
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's not about the uranium

This bullshit from Safire is preemptive to the Plame indictments.

They're trying to establish how it was no big deal to reveal the name of a CIA operative.
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JoeRunion Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. The report does seem to discredit Wilson, though
I mean if we are to believe the part that says no WMD or Al-Queda ties to Iraq, we have to swallow the discrediting of Wilson. I don't think we can pick and choose.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. WTF Are You Talking About?
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 11:58 AM by Beetwasher
No we don't have to swallow anything and the report does not discredit Wilson. The rest of the report was signed off on and agreed to by both Dems and Repubs. The Dems did NOT sign or agree to the Repub. addendum that supposedly discredits Wilson. That addendum is based on the same forged documents and hearsay from people NOT PRIVVY to the meeting where Wilson was picked for the job. Also the REPUBLICAN addendum did NOT take into account ALL OF WILSON'S BOSSES at the CIA who ADAMANTLY STATE that Plame had NO PART in THEIR decision to send Wilson.

So, WTF are you talking about?
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JoeRunion Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Sorry, I just don't believe you can pick and choose
I mean we jumped on the information released in a staff report Republicans say they didn't sign off on, yet we discredit these new findings that Senators DID sign off on. You take the good with the bad, or you discard the whole thing. Can't mix and match.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. No he doesn't know what he's talking about
he doesn't understand the word TREASON, obviously!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yeah, There's That Too!
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:22 PM by Beetwasher
Just exactly how is any of Wilson's bullshit phony "cred problems" relevant to outing Plame and endangering US security?
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Those are facts that make the heads of folks like Joe explode
they can't handle the truth!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. This crap pisses me off to no end, the repug noise machine is
determined to continue lying to the public, distorting reality and playing us for fools! Everyone around the globe, except American's know Bush is an outright crook and liar. What is America's problem with understanding, Bush STOLE the election, went to war because he WANTS $$$$$$ and could give a rats ass about who dies for HIS agenda? What is so hard to believe about that? Get smart people...he's a liar!!! I'm finished reading the NYRAG-Times..piece of propaganda crap. Too bad, I used to love it, now it's just another conservative rag. The Democrats have ZERO support from the media, I have no idea how the truth will prevail with this assault on Democracy and distorted media slants. Only one side is being told these days and it isn't the truth side.
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Sagan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Does that really matter?

The point is that SOMEONE committed TREASON and BROKE THE LAW by revealing the identity of an undercover CIA operative. People can throw all the chaff they want and Joe Wilson can be convicted of putting babies on spikes, but that doesn't change the Plame case.

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The Report Also Does NOT DISCREDIT WILSON
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:27 PM by Beetwasher
There is an adendum, put forth by Repubs and NOT signed off on by the Dems that supposedly claims that Plame suggested Wilson for the mission. It is TOTAL BULLSHIT and it's based on hearsay from people NOT AT THE MEETING when Wilson was given the mission. The addendum only states the hearsay and not the people who actually picked Wilson for the mission, who adamantly claim that Plame had NO ROLE.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Well said.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Even if Wilson's wife did recommend him for the job
So what? What is wrong with that? It's not like, there were a lot of other people, who were any where near as qualified for the job?


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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. This is about TREASON
or haven't you followed the story? :eyes:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. The Wilson words were "no substancial ties" to Al-Queda - and all agree
that was the truth

The right wing sets up a straw man via a lie (namely that Joe said that there were no ties - absolutely no ties - to Al-Queda) - then shoots him down - and our media folks like Safire run with it.

Good little media whores.

As to no WMD - where does the report say there was a WMD threat to the US or anyone else coming from Iraq on March of 03?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Wilson defended himself yesterday
point by point on Late Edition. Not sure if the transcripts are up, but his website also has statements about all of it.

Once again, they're twisting and obsfucating things so as to make it too confusing and time consuming to cut the wheat from the chaffe.

Welcome to DU, BTW! :hi:
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giant_robot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Don't you just love how
the "amateurish forgery" has disappeared down the memory hole? Disgusting.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. The louder and more shrill the attack
the more damage you know the indictments will do.
I can't wait to have to decide on whether to watch Cheney being tried for Plame, Halliburton no bid contracts, or watch the trial in France over Halliburton bribes...


Nice to see that * is so loyal to his Dick.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. And Bush can tell lies with impunity
It don't matter, one of his critics might have lied about something, therefor Bush is KING!!! yay!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Didn't Tenet take the blame for not vetting the SOTU speech?
I think the Niger claim is a moot point. The point NOW is who divulged the name of a CIA OPERATIVE!!!!!! Whether Wilson lied or not is not the POINT. This white house is always blaming the messenger.
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obnoxiousdrunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. David Corn's column
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