Are you familiar with Vedanta Philosophy?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

I am a Catholic Christian and am drawn to my religion for two chief reasons:

1 - because it is a passifist spirituality which teaches me to love others as I love myself.

2 - because their is an ancient mystical tradition emphasizing meditation and personal unitive contemplation of God. (St John of the Cros, St Theresa of Avilla, St Francis, St Therese of Lisieux, Thomas Merton, The Desert Fathers, etc.)

Along the way in my spiritual studies I discovered the Hindu based Vedantists who hold that all religions are paths to the same goal and the mystical element is the unifying element. This is very appealing to me and has served to make the whole world seem like even more of a human family. My personal spirituality and mystcism harmonizes wonderfully with this philosophy.

I thought that some folks here who are interested in mysticism and spirituality might profit from learning about it.

That's all

- Peace

http://www.vedanta.org

<snip
Overview

Vedanta is one of the world's most ancient religious philosophies and one of its broadest. Based on the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of India, Vedanta affirms the oneness of existence, the divinity of the soul, and the harmony of religions. Vedanta is the philosophical foundation of Hinduism; but while Hinduism includes aspects of Indian culture, Vedanta is universal in its application and is equally relevant to all countries, all cultures, and all religious backgrounds. A closer look at the word "Vedanta" is revealing: "Vedanta" is a combination of two words: "Veda" which means "knowledge" and "anta" which means "the end of" or "the goal of." In this context the goal of knowledge isn't intellectual—the limited knowledge we acquire by reading books. "Knowledge" here means the knowledge of God as well as the knowledge of our own divine nature. Vedanta, then, is the search for Self-knowledge as well as the search for God.

What do we mean when we say God? According to Vedanta, God is infinite existence, infinite consciousness, and infinite bliss. The term for this impersonal, transcendent reality is Brahman, the divine ground of being. Yet Vedanta also maintains that God can be personal as well, assuming human form in every age. Most importantly, God dwells within our own hearts as the divine Self or Atman. The Atman is never born nor will it ever die. Neither stained by our failings nor affected by the fluctuations of the body or mind, the Atman is not subject to our grief or despair or disease or ignorance. Pure, perfect, free from limitations, the Atman, Vedanta declares, is one with Brahman. The greatest temple of God lies within the human heart.

Vedanta further asserts that the goal of human life is to realize and manifest our divinity. Not only is this possible, it is inevitable. Our real nature is divine; God-realization is our birthright. Sooner or later, we will all manifest our divinity—either in this or in future lives—for the greatest truth of our existence is our own divine nature.

Finally, Vedanta affirms that all religions teach the same basic truths about God, the world, and our relationship to one another. Thousands of years ago the Rig Veda declared: "Truth is one, sages call it by various names." The world's religions offer varying approaches to God, each one true and valid, each religion offering the world a unique and irreplaceable path to God-realization. The conflicting messages we find among religions are due more to doctrine and dogma than to the reality of spiritual experience. While dissimilarities exist in the external observances of the world religions, the internals bear remarkable similarities."
>snip

(As a disclaimer I add that The Vatican, in its Catechism, eventually conceded what is common sense to most people - that non-catholics can be saved and go to heaven. Thats got to be comforting to those people who lived virtuosly before Christ was born.)

[greenman3610]

1. check out

Walt Whitman, Bede Griffith
the book "Cosmic Consciousness" by Bucke

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

3. Why do you recommend these?

I am familiar with Whitman but not the others.

[Voice_of_Europe]

2. oops

I read VENDETTA ...

Sorry I clicked...
never mind me...
going off now..

(avoids any religion)

[GumboYaYa]

4. Chavez, I having only a passing familiarity with

Vendata, but after reviewing the list of religious leaders you admire I have a must read suggestion for you. Get your hands on St. Gregory of Palamas. To me he provides a bridge between Eastern and Western religious philosophies.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

5. If you recomend him I will definately look him up.

I'm headed to the library today as it happens!

thanks YaYa!

rootbeer toast
:beer:

[DWolper]

10. And Bede Griffiths (Good on east/west spiritual unity) n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

6. I find a "Vedantist" theme in the message of the Dalai Lama, among

others.

As a psychologist and, specifically a brain geek (I do a lot of work, both diagnostic and biofeedback, with EEG), I'm fascinated by D'Aquili's work on the psychophysiology of religious/mystical experience.

Various researchers have found a brain area that, when quiescent, permits the subject to have "oceanic" mystical experiences, such as are often attained in meditation. Western scientists tend to describe this area as having the function of giving us a sense of location in space, so the oceanic feeling results when the spatial locator is turned off. I think it's just as logical to think of that brain area as an "illusion generator," a sort of holograph projector that generates the Maya illusion and, when we turn it down, we get a glimmering of the underlying oceanic reality. As a matter of fact, I'm planning to start doing some exploratory work on teaching people to exercise voluntary control over this area as a rapid way to access altered mystical states.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

7. Aldous Huxley (himseelf a Vedantist who wrote on the subject) shared

your view and, for a while, advocate using psychoactive chemicals and plants to do just that. He spoke of a theory (Henri Bergson's I believe) that the brain is an eliminative device which keeps us from ultimate understanding in order to perpetuate our existence physically.As creatures who need to eat drink and breathe the brain focuses our attention on those things keeping us from deeper understanding and mystical states. The ascetics have known all about these things for centuries. Science is just catching up!

[Az]

9. UCLA Sandiego has done research on this part of the brain

Specifically dealing with Epyleptics. They found they could directly trigger this response by shorting various parts of the brain via magnetic pulses. Taking the spacial/identity portions of the mind out would trigger these experiences. Subjects reported various explanations based on their cultural background.

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Except that the Sx patients had temporal problems

and I'm talking about a right-side parietal locus (P3 in the international 10-20 EEG system).

Also Michael Persinger at Laurentian University in Canada has a helmet gadget that he uses to deliver EMF to certain parietal areas in order to stimulate "mystical" experiences.

As to whether the whole business is reducible to electrochemistry, that is a matter that remains moot. It all depends on your starting assumptions, whether you ascribe primacy to mind or to matter. See, for example, Goswami's The Self-Aware Universe for a physicist's discussion of the issue from the mind-primacy POV.

[Az]

15. There is certainly room for philosophical discourse on this matter

I merely offer my observations with the tending theories. An examination of religious and meditative practices show a commonality of attaining an altered state of mind.

In fact it may be interesting to pursue the notion of religions that dominate demonizing sects which practice different forms of attaining communion. Based on reading of Roman observations of the early sects of Christianity suggest that a multitude of means of communing were practiced amongst them. There were struggles amongst these sects. The ones that lost were cast out of the accepted forms of social communion. They became associated with evil and dark practices. Thus satanic cults are merely alternate traditions recalling their methods of reaching the divine.

[Jackpine Radical]

16. Paganism, & especially shamanic practices,

contain entire technologies for attaining spiritually significant altered states. 30 years ago or more a psychologist named Andrew Neher showed that shamanic drumming induces high-amplitude theta (slow-wave) EEG activity in people undergoing vision quests or "journeys."

[Az]

8. The God Part of the Brain

You will find that most experential religions seem to focus on evoking an alteration of mental state. Their conclusions about the nature of this state of mind are varied according to their cultural background. But the profound nature of the experience gives their beliefs a sharp reality to them.

What is transpiring has been found out through research. Epyleptics have an increased occurrence of "religious" experiences. These follow shortly after seizures and can have a profound impact on the mind. What is occurring is that there is a part of the mind responsible for keeping track of self against the background of experience.

This is a learned trait. Babies have to learn to distinguish self from the world around them. When we are born we are the universe. Over time we learn that we are not the table, the floor, or that person over there. This process is governed by a series of modules in the brain. If these modules cease to function properly extrodinary experiences are had.

An epyleptics seizure can trigger this part of the brain to misfire. Experiments at UCLA have found that using magnetic pulses can short this part of the brain out and recreate these "religious" experiences. It is actually a learnable trait to trigger this manner of altered state of mind. It can also be brought about through other means (drugs, physical exertion, sex, starvation, overexposure, pain, etc).

When this state of mind is entered the brain continues to function but the internal dialog is no longer registered as initiating from self. The mind applies whatever learned social constraints might identify the source of this dialog. For some it will be god for others it is being one with the universe. Due to the lack of experience with this state of mind it will be accompanied by a profound emotional association. In some cases (epyleptics) this emotional association will be immensly amplified by the nature of what tiggered the experience.

As our mind is an emotionally relating series of experiences the impact of this experience will far overweigh any reasoned or rational explanation that we come up with. Simply put there is too much impact from the experience for us to dismiss it. We value the reality of direct experience (whether we understand it or not) over the rationalisation of an outsider that cannot in any way claim to have experienced what we had.

An examination of early forms of Christianity as seen through the eyes of the Romans gives us some insite into the early attempts to commune with god. There were numerous sects of these early christians. Each using their own means of finding their way to god. The various sects which remain contain the relics of these practices. After centuries of socialisation and institutionalisation the experential component has taken a back seat to the doctrine. But wine and waifers as well as more extreme practices remain within the practice reflecting the forms of communion with this god that won out over time.

Even now the newest rising forms of these religions seem to be trying to find their way back to the experential god. Pentecostals being slain in the spirit. Mormons and the prophets. The experential nature of the belief system is trying to find its way back into the society. Surrounded by skeptics and materialists religion without experience is facing daunting challenges. Those desperate to know god will find ways to communicate with god to satisfy their need.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

11. So do you think God is just a chemical delusion?

?

[Az]

14. I would not say just

as it conveys a sense of dismisal that is not intended. But I would posit that the experential aspect associated with some perceptions of god could well be explained by neurological explanations not requiring an external source of intellect. Further more this theory is only offered as an explanation for the communing experience and is not an all encompassing refutation of god.

[Jackpine Radical]

13. There seem to be two separate approaches, with

somewhat different results, in this field. One is the epilepsy/brain stim stuff you're talking about (e.g. Ramachandran, Phantoms in the Brain; Persinger, focused on temporal regions) & the other is the d'Aquili/Newberg work examining parietal responses to meditation. I find the latter to be far more interesting than the former.