The irony of fear, F 9/11, and DU.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

First let me say, I think Moore's two films BFC and F 9/11 are wonderful bookends to a much larger thesis he ought to pursue: the use of fear and marketing in America. He'll do his film on HMOs, then he MUST do one on American media and the comodification of fear. That will be the fitting end to this trilogy.

Now onto 9/11 and fear. I think his delving into the administration's use of fear with regards to electoral politics happens to be one of the strongest aspects of F 9/11. I wish he would have pursued it further. But he simultaneously stokes the coals of fear in his viewers (perhaps rightfully so). As I've mentioned before, I saw the film with a friend who is from Yemen. His is a LIHOPper and buys into Moore's theories far more than I do (I love the filmic aspects of these theories, however). But he was made VERY nervous and uncomfortable during the whole Saudi episode when Bush and his ilk are shown shaking hands with many "brown-skinned" people. My friend leaned over and said, "Fuck, no wonder the Bin Ladens wanted out of this place. This is creepy." In other words, from his perspective, the atmosphere was just right for a lynching. The whole "They have $864 billion invested in the U.S. and look at how much influence they have on this country's policies" seemed to be a tired script: how many times have anti-Semites made the same claim against Jews.

Now, none of this is to say that Moore is anti-Arab. Not at all. All I mean to say is that it strikes me that he uses the very rhetoric of fear that he accuses, and rightfully so, the U.S. of using all the time. It's just a matter, it seems to me, of what we choose to be afraid of. I'm not afraid of a terrorist attack. I'm more fearful of a drunk driver killing my family. The Patriot Act, as god-damned intrusive as it is THEORETICALLY, practically I believe many portions of it will be struck down; we've seen the SCOTUS take action this week. In other words, he calls our attention to a "theoretical" scare (though I KNOW its abuses have been felt--and therefore would be dealt with by the SCOTUS). I use the Patriot Act only as an example: I happen to believe, not out of fear but as a matter of law (as do many conservatives) that the Patriot Act is a black-eye on the legislative branch and will be remembered as the Congress and the Executive branch acting out of hysteria.

How does all of this apply to DU? O.K., and I'm willing to take my lumps here, but some of the worries here are quite laughable. How many posts did I read about Freepers ready to do violence? How many posts readied this forum for our being victims in some way shape or form? I will point out specific threads if you like, but I'd rather not. I don't want any of this to be personal.

It just strikes me as odd, the whole "victimage" rhetoric from both the right and the left (and I sit squarely with the left). Who can be the biggest victim? Who can convince their listeners (scare them?) that the other side is out their lurking, ready to strike.

Please save the anecdotal evidence. I don't dismiss your specific examples at all. I'm sure it's all true. But it exists within the realm of inductive logic, which is precisely the logic at the foundation of the rhetoric of fear.

Humbly yours,
G.U.

P.S. As many here know, I'm really not offended by pointed or even hostile posts. I take them in the spirited atmosphere of GD. In fact, I like to say that any hostility directed at me is most likely warranted.

[bpilgrim]

1. remember who's side is ordering the bombing

and fire at will ;->

peace

[thebigidea]

2. yep, I really feel concerned for the public image of the Saudi royals.

And the poor, beleaguered Bin Laden family.

Oh! If only they had a saccharine-sweet PR campaign to fight this!

Oh wait, they do.

[cprise]

3. Moore displayed deep concern for the plight of Iraqis

...who were INVADED. Actually attacked. The whole country.

And they're Arab.

Hello?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

5. I agree with your post completely.

No doubt.

I brought that point up as well. My friend concurred. His favorite image, though (through narration and pictures): Prince Bandar smoking a cigar while the Pentagon billowed smoke (sarcasm on).

Please let me be clear. I'm not accusing Moore of any anti-Arab ideology. Perhaps the reaction was due to where we live, a place where Yemenis and Saudis "look the same" (Oh, i don't know like Afghanis, Saudis, and Iraqis look the same). That's all.

[cprise]

6. Iraqis also "look the same".

I think Moore was introducing an element of appropriate, informed fear based on how certain peoples have been used and victimized in this war.

The movie was about crying wolf to the most powerful nation on Earth in order to induce them to attack.

It happened. Moore is not himself crying wolf. Be afraid.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

7. "Be afraid." Pile on the irony.

I don't want to be mean here. And if you see this and want me to delete it, I will. But my brother-in-law has an NRA decal that has in big bold (I think red) letters "Be Afraid." The NRA emblem is underneath it.

I believe this was THE thesis of Moore's BFC.

I'm not afraid of terraists. I'm not. I'm more afraid of choking on celery while watching "The Family Guy" because I laugh so freaking hard.

I will not live in fear.

And then I'll vote for Kerry.

[cprise]

11. I didn't say live in fear

But fear must be part of a response to what has been happening. I feel afraid... sometimes.

If Moore's film provokes only detached concern, then we're in trouble.

[JSJ]

15. I decline your invitation to be afraid n/t

[Insider]

4. thoughtful and helpful

raise my awareness, why dontcha? thanks GU. :)

[goodhue]

8. very insightful

I concur that strongest element of F911 is calling out perpetual war on terrorism as a fear-based means of control, and that film itself does engage in some fear-based tactics with regard to bin laden-bush axis. Also, way to many posts here on DU are fear-based. Indeed, the whole ABB meme is essentially fear-based. Hopefully, more folks will move beyond fear based worldview and frame what is possible.

Of course, topic reminds me of Kucinich speech from last fall entitled "Breaking the Spell of Fear."

And here it is . . .

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech15.htm

Breaking the Spell of Fear
Iowa City, Iowa
September 1, 2003

Good evening. What a great turnout! Thank you for being here.

I am running for President to inspire America to take new path, a different direction. Americans are contemplating the direction the country might take. Fear is still pervasive. USA Today had a poll last week which showed that the majority of Americans expect a terrorist attack within the next month and a half.

There is a sense of tentativeness about the future; a disconnection from the optimism that is so characteristic of Americans. The fear that has draped our country like a dark cloud is a product of misinformation, untruths, of outright lies. There has been a deliberate effort to engender in the hearts of Americans a kind of paralysis by keeping Americans in the dark about the true cause of our nations' actions.

We will soon observe the 2nd anniversary of 9/11 - the great tragedy that befell this nation and the world. It is a time worthy of reflection. America could have taken a different course after 9/11. After 9/11, the heart of the world was open to the U.S., the people were prepared to embrace the U.S., its sorrow and its tragedy. It was a moment when we needed to reach out and work with the world community, to reconnect to the world community in the cause of international cooperation.

The world needed the U.S. to step forward to touch people around the world, to make it a transformational moment in human experience, to say we're not stuck in tragedy.

Instead, America acted alone, unto itself. This created for our country the enmity of nations which have been our friends. Great difficulty was created in trying to reach any kind of peaceful approach.

America - through its leaders - made a choice, and it was sorrowfully a conscious choice toward war. The day after 9/11, there was a choice made in the National Security Council. Secretary Rumsfeld said we should use the occasion of 9/11 to go after Iraq.

The U.S. knew there was no connection between Iraq and 9/11 - it didn't matter. There was never any connection between Iraq and 9/11, between Iraq and Al Qaeda's role in 9/11, between Iraq and the anthrax attacks on this country. There was never any proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Yet this Administration proceeded along a path deliberately toward war. They rejected cooperation with the UN and failed to look at any evidence that disproved the cause of War. As a result, they created such fear in America.

In this room, I bet many of you had an experience in the last year and a half with the passage of the Patriot Act, the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, the drumbeat for war, the sharp increases in the Pentagon budget - many of us felt, `wow, what's happening to America? Where are they taking our country?'

It's as if an America is being created that we barely recognize…there is something different, foreign, about our cause of nationhood. Something is being disconnected from the heart of our country. The American spirit was being depressed - getting people to be careful about their phone conversations, careful about who they might meet with, starting to look the other way when someone of another color, another race, someone connected to the Middle East was in proximity.

The kind of suspicion and foreboding that's been created in this country has separated us as Americans, one to another. It has separated us as people of the world, separated us from other nations, separated us from our true destiny, from our ability to create a new world.

I think that we are at a transformational moment, when we are called upon to break the shackles of fear and step up to our roles as Americans who are optimistic, who are hopeful, who are peaceful, who want to rejoin the world community in the cause of peace; to rejoin the world community in the cause of humanity, to lift up the world community instead of destroying it. (cheers)

It's time, America, to reclaim who we are; to stand up for our tradition, to remember what it means to be American. It's not about war, it's not about injustice. Courage America. Courage. (cheers)

How can we reconnect? How can we effectively let go of this fear which has paralyzed the capacity for thought, which has paralyzed the capacity for political action? How can we reclaim who we are?

It's been said, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."

The cause of this election must be to communicate with the American people the truth about our misadventure in Iraq. That America went the wrong way, that the Bush Administration lied to the American people to take us into war. (cheers)

We must tell the truth to the American people. If we don't tell the people the truth, there is no way to lift the fear, because our fear is based on misconceptions. We do have challenges to security - that's true. But only by working with the world community can we meet these challenges. America has a right to defend herself, but we must expect that an Administration knows the difference between defense and offense. And this Administration went on the offense. It did so illegally, in violation of the UN charter, the Geneva convention and our own U.S. constitution. (cheers)

How are we going to move forward to regain who we are as a nation?

We have to look at the consequences of the choices that we made. Let's start with the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was passed in an atmosphere of deep fear in Washington. Members of Congress were besieged with great numbers of security guards. Imagine people in front of white marble buildings wearing camouflage. In front of white marble buildings wearing camouflage (laughs)

The fear and irrationality of Washington caused Congress to pass, in the dead of night, a law they never saw. It passed because of fear and because it was called "the Patriot Act." Sounds good…we're all Patriots. Actually, I wasn't for it. I have a rule of thumb in Washington - I don't vote for anything I haven't seen. (cheers)

<snip>

So it's about fear. The creation of the Department of Homeland Security with 171,000 employees - it will take them 10 years to figure out what they are supposed to do. Meanwhile, funds for police, fire and EMS are cut all over America. All cities have seen their funds reduced. We're going in the wrong direction. We need hometown security. We need the security that comes from communities that are strong and that have the support of local enforcement personnel.

Instead, we're going in the direction of a national police force, with national intrusiveness, away from democratic principles.

Fear drove a 13% increase in the Pentagon budget. The Pentagon is now spending over $400 billion/year, plus $5 billion/month for the war in Iraq. We're spending more and more for the military. Meanwhile, education is cut by $10 billion, veteran affairs cut by $25 billion. Health care, but by billions. All our social needs - cut. State budgets - cut. State budgets for education - cut. Everything is being reduced in this country except the Pentagon.

We're spending more than all of the other nations of the world put together. In return, war. We're getting the capacity for war, not the capacity to wage peace.

We have an obligation to protect our nation. But we don't have to spent the treasure of our nation on huge arms buildups that separate us from the world. (cheers) Fear, that's what does it.

<snip>

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech15.htm

[Eloriel]

9. Please save the anecdotal evidence.

Oh, that you had done the same. Frankly, I find the overly sensitive concerns of ONE Yeminite not terribly credible. Sorry.

I also don't think that raising facts about the Saudis and their ties to the Bush Family is inappropriate -- or racist. If you have specific scenarios or quotes or something from the movie to demonstrate that, let's hear them.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

10. I don't own the DVD.

And I haven't committed the movie to memory.

Perhaps my Yemeni friend is overly-sensitive. And I accept your point: I guess I shouldn't exempt anecdotal evidence when I invoke it. Good point (damn you!!) Fine. Then let's just say I share every one of his concerns (except his LIHOP craziness :-)). We'll pretend he doesn't exist (though if he does exist, he prefers Yemeni to Yemenite; if you know the region, you know why).

Here are a couple of clips that absolutely struck me:
1) General: with Moore's voice-over, while narrating the financial ties to the U.S., while laying out the ties between the Saudis and the bushies, all we see are smiling Saudis shaking hands with Bush et al. All smiles from what I recall. Everyone sitting at the table was brown-skinned, and they all had on their traditional clothing--robes, head piece, etc. These clips went on for a good 3 minutes, I think (though I wasn't timing).

2) Prince Bandar and the cigar: here was my favorite clip/narration. We got pictures of the Prince smoking a cigar (while he has a smile) and then cut to a scene of a White House balcony, where Moore narrates that chimpy and Bandar were out there, Bandar smoking a cigar we are told, looking out over the Pentagon billowing smoke.

3) Saudis make up 7% of U.S. economy: startling figure. And I don't refute the numbers. I imagine they owned that much, perhaps even more (since the economy was so much better) under Clinton. But so what? From an historical perspective, I get VERY nervous when groups from the Mideast are accused of controlling the financial strings of any given country. I'll leave it at that.

None of these three examples prove anything, I know. One can't prove my thesis: it's based on viewer response. So I guess my bottom-line is that the message rests with the viewer and their a prior assumptions before going into the film. I don't think Moore is anti-Arab, not in the least (as I stated in my original post). I realize that some sort of an element of fear must be used in political persuasion. I'm just wondering if Moore's use got away from him a bit. That's all.

Why would I worry about this? Perhaps, just perhaps, because to most Americans the difference between a Yemeni (or even a Yemenite) and a Saudi is negligible. On what do I base this worry? Because 67% of the public can't differentiate between the Saudis, Afghanis, and the Iraqis. But I wonder, just wonder, how the American people could have gotten this idea? Bush, no doubt drew links. But how much of it was an unstated media saturation/conflation of images of brown-skinned people. It was all simply a product of a commodification of fear (and I'm NOT accusing Moore of this).

[justjones]

18. 67% of the public can't differentiate between the Saudis, Afghanis, Iraqis

or Egyptians or Moroccans or any other people with even a hint of Arab blood, and this fear of the "other" that this entire "war on terrorism" is perpetuating and that no one is questioning or even challenging on either side something I find completely disturbing.

I don't think your Yemeni friend is overly sensitive, maybe because one of my closest friends is Egyptian and from talking to him and being a person of color myself, I can see things from his perspective that I wouldn't otherwise see.

But you've touched on something I started thinking about today. However, I don't have thought through it enough to put it into words at this point. I haven't seen F9/11, but I plan on seeing it this weekend. But maybe MM's movie is just a starting point for finding a way to counter fear without creating another sense of fear at the same time....

Edited for typo.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

19. There's no doubt.

I think this is absolutely true: "But maybe MM's movie is just a starting point for finding a way to counter fear without creating another sense of fear at the same time...."

The movie sets itself up beautifully to do this. But the Saudi part gets in the way. The Saudi part ONLY gets in the way, however, if one wants to see that this movie is an investigation of the way in which fear played a part in this entire "war." I think these are the most important parts of this movie (and with Moore's BFC); so I'm biased. Lila's story, and her transformation, is an incredible testament to her renunciation of the narrative of fear the leadership of this country wove.

[PVnRT]

12. On Sept. 12th

Deny to me right now that if the bin Ladens in this country had stepped out into the open without protection, that they would have been rather violently lynched. It's called mob mentality, and it was present rather high after 9/11 (at least one mosque got attacked in Chicago) and it's still fairly high now.

No, Moore is not racist, nor is he buying into that mentality - he's right to question why we let them suddenly up and leave rather than detain them for questioning after the attacks. But to dismiss what this guy's friend was thinking is just silly.

And I believe that grendel was referring to the general air of "the Freepers will kill anyone trying to see F9/11!" posts that were rampant here the few days before the movie came out, and the culture of fear which Moore so accurately portrays in Bowling for Columbine.

[Cleita]

13. If you are saying he was Arab bashing, I think his sympathetic

portrayal of the Iraqi civilians being terrorized and killed by our troops would say otherwise. If your Yemeni friend was upset that the Saudi VIPs were portrayed less sympathetically, well I wouldn't call it Arab bashing but something else. The phrase "privileged classes" comes to mind.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

14. I never implied Moore was promoting Arab bashing.

Reread my original post and then my post to Eloriel.

[Wind Dancer]

16. Maybe you mistake the meaning

of certain posters when they express fear. This is from an earlier thread discussed this morning.

A DUer was fortunate enough to see President Clinton last night and I will copy and paste the last paragraph from her post:

"Brothers and Sisters, the Big Dog was serious last night. He did not smile during his speech. He KNOWS what's at stake and he was begging us to do EVERYTHING we can to stop *, and to win back the House, the Senate, or both. I'm just the messenger. Think of this man, of all he has endured and sacrificed on our behalf(knowing, of course, that he is not perfect). He is scared, and we should be, too. NOW LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1894859


Personally, I do not fear terrorists or the ongoing fake alerts of Ashcroft and the like. My concern is the state our country is in due to corruption, dishonesty, greed, corporate ownership of media and RW neocons using religion for political gain. I think this will lead to a holy war if things don't change.

So, when I post that I am scared, it doesn't mean I'm a wimp or buy into the fear promoted propaganda we are spoonfed daily. I will fight to the bitter end to help regain some dignity back to this country.

MM brilliantly finalized the movie with Orwell's negative utopia. We continue to fight a war, a war that doesn't exist.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

17. Look, I too "fear" the state of this country if chimpy has another 4 years

But there's fear and then there's FEAR.

I have not bought duct tape or extra batteries (not for 2000 bug, not for elevated terraist alerts).

Let's just say Bush wins, it won't be the death of democracy or the U.S. I'm sorry, it won't. It'll suck, no doubt. Foreign peoples will most likely be bombed (but this is nothing new to our country). But we will not be run by the Saudis. Nor will we be run by the Zionists. We may be run, if we're not already, by 6 corporations (but that's another story).

Look, the rhetoric of fear is INHERENT to a campaign. So is negativity. How else does one attempt to get the incumbent out? You have to convince people that his policies have been crap (negativity) and that if we keep pursuing them, it'll lead to destruction (fear). But there are gradations within the rhetoric of fear, no doubt.

[Wind Dancer]

21. I appreciate your point.

We differ in how we view the future of our country with another 4 years of this administration.

I could debate this topic all night but am getting too tired to think clearly. I respect your position but feel the country is in serious trouble, I hope I am wrong.

[PretzelWarrior]

20. excellent post...I'm sure John Kerry and DNC are guilty as well

of fomenting fear that the world as we know it will absolutely vanish and civilization will sink to near extinction if Bush serves another term.

Not that I want anything NEAR another 4 years of this inept yet crafty fool, but I get your meaning.

I can tell from your language that you are a very well educated and insightful poster. It is nice to have someone who can articulate a pattern of ideas in a way that is both reasonable and convincing.

Thanks

[Susang]

22. I find it strange

You tell others to "save the anecdotal evidence" and yet much of your post seems born from your own anecdotal experience, i.e., seeing the film with your friend from Yemen and your subsequent reaction to his comments on said film. Not a particularly honest way to spark debate, in my opinion.

on edit: I see that while I was composing, Eloriel made my point for me. I apologize for the redundancy.

[Zorra]

23. I fear rattlesnakes when they are coiled near my leg, are rattling

and have their heads in striking position. Fear of this nature is a critical survival mechanism. But I do not immediately jump away from the snake because of my fear. I know that if I do so, the snake will probably bite me because I have seen how quickly they can strike. I know not to move. Then I figure out how to get out of the situation without getting bitten. If I have a rifle, or a shovel in my hands, I will have to decide if it is likely that I can strike the snake before it strikes me. I also know that rattlesnakes are very patient, and will stay in defense/attack mode for quite some time, longer than I care to, or maybe,can, stand stock still. If I have no implement with which to dispatch the snake, there is a good chance that the snake and I will be setting there fearing each other for quite some time, and there is the possibility that the snake may choose to strike even if I do not move. I don't really want to hurt the snake, and the snake does not really want to hurt me. We are both at a somewhat senseless impasse. While I am waiting, I realize that I have a hat on, and know that the snake will strike at movement that is near it's body. So I choose to overcome my fear, remove my hat slowly, with as little movement as possible and flick it behind the snake. The snake strikes the hat before it hits the ground, and I jump away at the same moment the snake strikes at the hat. I am safe, and relieved, and no longer afraid. But I am still hyper-aware from the adrenaline rush of fear, and find myself inordinately preoccupied with searching the ground for other snakes as I walk home.

I think about the time when a rattlesnake killed my dog.

I know a rattlesnake when I see one. I don't kill rattlesnakes.

But rattlesnakes, out of fear and ignorance, might kill or seriously injure me if I am careless.

[AgadorSparticus]

24. I disagree about MM using fear. I think his work do the opposite.

I think for the most part, we, as a society, already live in fear. MM movies spotlights issues of concern, that although may initially trigger more fear, i think it ultimately works more on the plane of education. As he said, this stuff should already be in the news. But it's not.

I don't see his movies using fear as a motivator at all. Although some people are motivated by fear, I think personal and social responsibility ultimately dictate what we do with the information MM presents.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

25. Certainly, his movies are not founded on fear. NOT AT ALL.

In fact, I've said here before that the most delicious aspect of F 9/11 is its humor.

I just thought the Saudi-bushie connection portion of the movie fell over its own rhetoric in places. Richard Clarke said somewhere, I think in an interview with AP, that he authorized the flights of the Saudis because he and they feared American vigilantism. I think theirs was a rational fear. Can you imagine if bin Laden's family was kept here and the media found out? Many would want DETAILED questioning (and rightfully so); but can you IMAGINE right wing news broadcasts?

I think it could have gotten VERY ugly.