International DUers..how do you feel about our US hosts?

[dudeness]

personally speaking, this site has been a wonderful insight into a country and peoples I have long admired (some political leaders exempted)..I barely knew the left was so active in the US and have been pleased to find a group of people whom welcome debate and engage it so openly...


STAY UNITED !

[hlthe2b]

1. American "butting in..."

I'm really glad that we've been given a forum to let the world know that not all Americans are nutso right wing fundie fanatics!

DUDENESS: Where do you live? I hope all respondents will also indicate their country of origin... :toast: to Skinner!

[dudeness]

3. australia here..

cheers

[Spazito]

2. DU is great!

There is such a wonderful mix of talent, ability, knowledge and willingness to share ideas, perspectives, etc. Until I found my way to DU I really wasn't aware that there were American citizens who despised bush and all that had happened during the election of 2000 because the US media did not cover anything critical of the bush administration. My thanks to all who keep this site up and running!

[StandUpGuy]

4. DU stooped me...

From lobbying my Government to launch a preemptive strike on the U.S..

I had written off all of you.

I'm also shocked by the size of the Canadian contingent here.

DU also made me realize my own media will try to hide our truths with Bush bashing and self righteousness, instead of Laci Peterson and Micheal Jackson.

[rman]

10. hm yes, the media thing

It's pretty much a given that many if not most US citizens know very little about what goes on in the rest of the world, if only because most Americans have hardly any access to foreign media.
But since DU i've come to realize that the reverse is almost as true. Most Europeans simply do not know about the circumstances of the people in the US. The desaster that is the US economy, loss of civil rights, the election theft, increasing poverty and homelessness and many other issues - those things simply aren't on the map for most Europeans, because they do not hear about it. Instead we get some report on how neat and clean US streets are.

[hlthe2b]

5. kick... I'd love to hear from more International DUers......

[dudeness]

6. KICK

n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Very glad they put up with us

because I'm sure some of my questions or comments have been outstandingly dumb.

It's intersting to see a wide variety of positions all nominally from Demoratic supporters - if you just go on the election results that get reported abroad, you'd think the views hardly went further left than the Democratic presidential candidate each 4 years. The hatred of NAFTA has been an eye-opener - hardly anyone on the board has a good word to say for it, it seems.

Now this is kicked back up for the European morning, maybe you'll get a wider response ...

[iangb]

8. Sometimes it's a bit exasperating......

......when you see threads comparing candidates hairdos, clothing etc....and this aussie thinks WTF?

That aside there's some useful insights into how the US got itself into this mess..........and how it just may extricate itself without the need for a foreign preemptive strike.

[JayS]

27. "insights into how the US got itself into this mess"

I've met many Australians and have liked them all. I one day plan to visit Oz providing that I don't have to eat that Vegemite stuff and that y'all don't all drive like Mad Max. :)

In my opinion, the biggest single item, in modern times, that is causing the biggest problems in the U.S. is the War On Drugs. Please do ANYTHING you can in your country to make sure this "war" is never started there. Once it is entrenched, you can't make it go away again.

If Australia, for some reason, wants to live with gangs, violence by gun and other means, prison populations so high there is no room to keep violent offenders off the street, people that can't get a good paying job, ever, because of a "mark" on their records, loss of civil liberties, fear of going outside of the home, and other such fun things...start a War On Drugs and treat medical issues as criminal ones.

[arcos]

9. Costa Rica here... kick! n/t

[dudeness]

11. kick

n/t

[Minstrel Boy]

12. DU has kept me from lapsing into lazy anti-Americanism

during the Bush years.

It gives me hope for America. No small thing.

[dudeness]

13. very true Minstrel boy

it is very easy to fall into the lazy anti- americanism..

[Bhaisahab]

14. A perspective from India

I agree with you 100%. The image of Americans as intellectually lazy, uncurious, uncaring people is completely shattered by the members of DU. I wish America was inhabited only by people who were like these fine men and women.
DU also gives a good window into the churning that is taking place in America. The op-ed war between American liberals and the right wing has worldwide implications, and I am rooting for the liberals to overturn the free ride the right has got ever since poor Clinton was hounded over a personal matter.
I gotta tell you, we LOVE Clinton in India. His visit in 1999 was the most raucous welcome accorded by Indians to a foreign head of state in my entire life time. and that's saying something, coz we love lavishly welcoming guests.


(mobbed by ladies in a village)


(on the cover of Outlook- India's "Newsweek")

[dudeness]

15. Hey prof pot...

how ya doin mate?...was a great series of cricket india v pakistan..unbelievable matches..good to see you..

[Bhaisahab]

16. g'day mate! we whipped pakistan good didn't we?

which reminds me, you had a lousy day yesterday against Sri Lanka. but its good to see big Glenn McGrath back in the thick of things.

[Djinn]

17. shhhhhhhhh don't mention the cricket

I hear enough about it at home - seriously it's the dullest sport in the world - although my other half assures me it's because I'm an immigrant - also explaining my aversion to vegemite!

As for the thread topic - I think the majority of Americans are much like the majority of Australian and Scots (my other home) - pretty thick and and not particularly curious about the world and it's people, in all three countries there is a minority that seeks out the real story and isn't content to be spoonfed by the corporate media.

[Bhaisahab]

18. also, because american culture is looked up to by indians...

... i fear in another 10 years we too would become apathetic to government machinations as long as we continue to get 24 hour TV. which is why i wanted Dennis Kucinich to take over as president of america. america needs a vast change, and if america changes for the better- that is to say better governance, informed citizenry, an environment-friendly society- India too will follow that path.

[Djinn]

21. Same here

it's been noticeable in regards to popular culture for quite a while but now we have a PM who thinks of himself a Dubya's Deputy - one of his recent suggestions - that all public schools would HAVE to fly an AUstralian flag (which is a British flag with a few extra stars) or loose their funding.

Went down like a lead balloon, with the general tone of letters to the ed's etc were "will it be the stars and stripes" "when is he going to introduce a pledge of allegiance" - maybe there's hope for us after all.

[freeforall]

19. It makes me very glad to know

that not all Americans are crazy!

Thirty-some-odd years ago, I really liked Americans and visiting the States. They were very friendly and open and proud of their country.

Then everything seemed to go downhill from there, and all we'd hear about were all the problems - guns and road rage and homelessness and people dying because they didn't have Medicare. I really wondered what had happened. It seemed as if the country went psychotic.

I still think the country has a lot of work to do, but Americans used to impress me with their energy and inventiveness, and I think you can recreate that if you want to. I hate to say this - but you guys need a strong president - and to me, Kerry just doesn't cut it. Too many people seem to think that he will be the country's saviour, but I think that view is naive. He doesn't relate to the grassroots - those who built America! The country needs a leader with passion who is committed to the people - not corporations.

Aside from that, it's great to see that there are so many people here that are democratic. And really, no matter which country we're in, it's the desire for freedom that binds us all.

[ironflange]

20. Canada here, I used to really dislike Americans

Two things have changed that.

1. Summer of 2000, Mrs Ironflange and I took a Baltic cruise. We were seated at the same dinner table with eight Americans, and after the first night we took dinner in the more relaxed and private cafeteria at the front of the ship. One lunchtime, though, we were back in the dining room, and there we met and chatted with a delightful older lady, who was the first American we had ever met who thought like we did, politically and socially. For example, she felt that the bombing of Dresden was as bad a war crime as any.

2. Finding this site. I had no idea there was such a groundswell against the worthless regime ruling the US and, indirectly, the world. Thanks, guys.

Writing this down, looking at points 1 and 2, I realize that I don't dislike Americans, it's Republicans I hate. The lady on the ship, obviously now, was a good Democrat, whereas I can see now how our table-mates were all Repubs. It all makes sense now. I keep thinking now of other events that reinforce this opinion, but I won't go into it.

[T_i_B]

22. US DUer's rule!

I'm glad they put up with us!

[Bhaisahab]

23. kick! n/t

[merh]

24. kick

[iverglas]

25. to be honest?

I was initially (summer of 2003), and continue to be, astounded at the right-wing stuff I see here that passes for "liberal/democratic/progressive" in the US. Being perfectly honest.

I get CNN ... and NBC, and CBS, and ABC, and PBS, and probably more importantly, CBC ... so I'm pretty familiar with what goes on south of the border. I've also travelled extensively in the US (including staying in the homes of regular USAmericans, and going to their weddings and funerals and the like), so I know them by much more than what their media show them and us.

I know that the single biggest problem in the US is most USAmericans' utter ignorance of anything outside their backyard, let alone their borders. And yes, I know the big reasons for this ignorance, but I also know that it is not just a matter of not knowing things about other people, it is also a deep lack of interest in them, right down to the very personal level. And yes, I generalize. From considerable experience, and in agreement with many other people who have similar experience and share my assessment. There is simply a basic lack of curiosity about others. And this is a very dangerous thing.

This characteristic is evident here too. JudiLyn's threads about international events and human rights situations go largely unnoticed (well ... except for the de rigueur Castro-bashing). My LBN thread about the results of this week's Canadian federal election -- an event that many even here had not known was happening, and that fewer understood -- amounted to Canadians talking to themselves.

The up side? An example. Recently, I've been impressed by the number of people here who have acquired an impressive knowledge and understanding of the Canadian health care system.

Obviously, it is in USAmericans' interest to do this, because models are important when one is considering a remodelling job (even if one doesn't choose to follow the same plans to the letter).

But this is also an example of how USAmerican attention to how and why we various foreigners do things, and knowledge and understanding of how and why we do them, is important to us foreigners too. The Canadian healthcare system is under enormous pressure to privatize, and much of that pressure comes from south of the bordern - the enormous profiteering insurance companies slobbering to get at our healthcare market.

The same is true of culture, and cultural industries, as pointed out in respect of India. The USAmerican notion that US mass/commercial culture is the most excellent is one that is easily spread, for enormous profit, when USAmerican cultural businesses, with the backing of their government in things like trade negotiations, carry it to countries whose cultures are more economically precarious and whose governments and industries wield less clout. The less USAmericans know about other people's cultures, the more able their government and its business cronies are to colonize those cultures.

USAmericans, the people, need to know more about other cultures and appreciate that other people, just like them, may prefer their own to someone else's. The USAmerican tendency to judge other cultures (including the political systems and institutions that other societies choose to adopt, and the legal rules that other societies choose to live by, for example) by their own standards -- standards that most of the world simply does not share -- is problematic. And again, a lot of that attitude and practice is seen here.

What I'd love to see is DU be more of a window thrown wide to the world for the benefit of the USAmericans here, and by extension all the rest of us, since USAmerican ignorance is so dangerous for everyone. There is so much out here that you folks just don't know about, and that you would benefit so much by knowing. International thinking about the rights of peoples (as well as of individuals), about democratic development, about solutions to social and political and cross-border problems and conflicts of all sorts -- there is just so much information and expertise out here, and I wish more people in the US, including at DU, would take an interest in it.

[JayS]

26. I loved all the posts on the Canadian federal election and want...

...to thank all y'all there in Canada for sharing with us!

But why should we care about things like what is going on in the country of Africa? :)

And Iverglas, I still think you would enjoy the book Infinite Jest, by David Foster Wallace; it is refreshing to see an American that knows enough about American culture to show us how silly we can be down here. :)

[Cleita]

28. Until Americans are taught about the rest of the world

from grammar school on up, they will remain provincial in their thinking. When living in a foreign country with my parents, I attended an American run school, however, this particular country required all schools to teach geography, which was not only about being able to identify continents, oceans and major islands in the world but more importantly touched on the culture, language, political systems and history of such countries. I mean we even learned about the nomads of the steppes in Siberia.

I never had a geography class ever in school here in the USA. All we had was European History called world history, whitewashed American history and one civics class in high school. When just prior to the Vietnam war, the country was being mentioned in the news, I had to explain to all my co-workers where Vietnam was. The only way they understood it was for me to tell them it was close to Thailand, which was formerly Siam and then they understood, only because of the popular muscial, "The King and I".

[JayS]

29. Geography sucks...

...all those stupid cubes and rectangles and things... :)

[Cleita]

30. LOL

Hey, Geometry does suck. I had to take it twice. The first time I didn't get it. Then something clicked one day when I was trying to measure something. The second time I took it, I got an "A". If they only had taught us the practical applications for mathematics, I think many of us would understand it better.

[blindpig]

31. hell, they don't even teach US History!

not really, just sanitized propaganda.

[Tsiyu]

32. To Be Fair...

Prior to 9/11, I was researching the situations in Sierra Leone. The blood diamonds, the children enslaved in the mines, so many people missing limbs....I was researching the AIDS crisis in Botswana. Did you know that Botswana, unlike many countries in Africa (which is a freaking CONTINENT) used the money it earned from its resources to build a wonderful infrastructure for its people? That's what issabout. I was studying the favelas in brazil...how children were being shot in the streets....blah blah blah. i'm not trying to make myself seem sinless here, but I was intensely interested in trade issues with every country in the world. How could we all work together to see that resources were traded efficiently and fairly, so that even small, poor countries could trade their way to better lives?
After 9/11, I admit, i had to abandon these worthwhile, but time-consuming pursuits.
We can't help anyone if WE THE PEOPLE ( that's a big WE, Shrub) are constantly trying to pay the bills, pay attention to terrorsm, pay attention when our children are serving in other lands ( the local bookstore sold out of ME maps, week after week after 9/11, if that makes anyone feel better). While I agree that today children are given a Cliff's Notes version of the World, I was given a more thorough education. There are many US organizations that give aid and spread info on all parts of this globe. Right now, i think we just have too damned much on our plate, and you'll have to forgive us....

[Ironpost]

35. KICK

[Cleita]

36. You are right. I find it hard to keep up with stuff too and

I thought it would be better after retirement, but I'm even busier now than I was when I was working because it takes me twice as long to get things done.

I was just saying that our schools aren't teaching kids about the rest of the world. I don't know how to change this because our society is so driven to educate only enough to specialize in a field that is going to make that child a lot of money when he grows up. So it creates generations of people who are ignorant about most things other than their specialty.

I have noticed Americans travel more since the jet age, so they do get a belated education of sorts by visiting other countries. Back before the Vietnam war, most Americans never traveled more than two hundred miles from the place they were born.

It's commendable that you have studied the social problems in those countries that you mentioned. Most Americans aren't even aware of these abuses and they are worldwide in scope.

[yvr girl]

38. Education and Interest

I'm a Canadian. For those of you not from the 'Great White North', we as a people are obsessed with the "Canadian Identity." You'd be amazed how many books you can find on the subject in Chapters (Canadian for Barnes & Noble)

One of the primary ways we define ourselves is how we are different than Americans. Canadians after all, are historically, people who have chosen not to be American. I've spent a lifetime taking mental notes on a compelling subject - America and Americans.

Here are some of my observations:

1. You have a Superpower's view of the world. Until recently, I think you felt like nothing could touch you. You were confident of your position in the world, and tended to ignore anything that doesn't effect you.

I'm shocked when I talk to American friends how little of world history you learned in school. In my public school education I studied: the Greeks, Romans, Babylon, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Dark Ages, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, French Revolution, Industrial Age, Unification of Italy, Unification of Germany, Russian Tzars, China, Africa, Israel, Australia, Japan, the Aztecs, American Revolution, the slave trade, the civil war, WW1, between the wars, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, parliamentary system, congressional system...and a smattering of Canadian history. Was my education thorough on every subject - no. But at least the subjects were introduced. Besides, I am now pretty good at Trivial Pursuits. (A Canadian game BTW)

Your media doesn't help either. I generally watch an American and a Canadian news broadcast everyday. I expect differences. We each have our own national issues, but your media has such a narrow focus. We just had an election in Canada. I watched both CNN and NBC to see if the event was reported. Granted the early hand-over in Iraq was a big story, but the results didn't even make the news highlights.

2. Your patriotism gets in the way. I admire your love of country. I think that it gives you a lot of strength as a people, and a nation, but you let it narrow your view of the world. You give the impression that you firmly believe that not only is America the best, but that everyone should want to be like you. You don't seem to allow for other points of view. Self-Determination shouldn't just be about choosing democracy, but the expression of that democracy as well.

3. Huge portions of your population have no experience with the world beyond your borders. I'm amazed how many Americans I've met who've never been to Canada, or anywhere else for that matter. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Canadian over the age of 5 who hasn't been to the States. Now granted we have an advantage - 90% of our population lives withing 200 miles of the border, but still. There is nothing like travel to give you an appreciation and understanding of the world around us. I was in Indonesia when the government was overthrown in 1998. A very interesting holiday to say the least. But when the Bali bombings happened a couple of years ago, I felt that my experience in there gave me a deeper understanding.

[Ironpost]

33. I would like to see you start writing articles,

and filling us in on your concerns, your culture and such.

[gula]

37. Can you read my thoughts?

Still, DU does allow me to believe that there is hope yet for our neighbours, that all is not lost. Just very close to it. It also informs about things American that I can only find on the internet.

Like you, although I do want Bush out, I do not see Kerry as a great improvement. Like I always say, the only difference between Dems and Reps is that the former use Vaseline.

Of course, the great advantage of living in Montreal is its bilingual nature which means one automatically gets 2 points of view on most things. It also protects our culture. I think I heard that last year 20% of the movie takes were from Québecois films. That is pretty darn amazing. Personally I saw movies from at least 10 to 15 countries and none of them was the USA.

Here is a toast to the greatest invention ever, the internet. Thanks to it there is little excuse for not staying informed of whats going on elsewhere.

[hlthe2b]

43. I take your comments to heart and would only like to point out:

that part of our (DUers)seeming disinterest in discussing social and cross-border problems, and broad global issues, is the absolute (and necessary IMO) fixation on the coming election, fighting against our willfully ingorant and malignant media, fighting to expose the lies and hypocrisy of the Bush* administration that has devastated our world standing and foreign policy for decades. As one who has lived and worked abroad, (including time in the Middle East, India, and Iran:years ago) I share your assessment of the seeming average American's disinterest or incredibly wrong assessments of people and events abroad.

But, don't give up on discussing these issues with many here at DU. We are obsessively focused inward right now since many feel we are fighting for the very survival of this country and its democratic ideals. But, we can only pray that things will begin to turn around with success in November. I'd like nothing better than to broaden our scope of discussion here and plan to take part when that happens.

I appreciate your honesty. Don't give up on us, though!

[bobbieinok]

34. In the summer of 91, I spent 2 months in Germany and Switzerland

I was interested in finding out from colleagues from other countries if people in their countries were concerned about German unification.

I didn't get much info about that. I did learn from a woman from Russia about the bad growing season and the concern about what life was going to be like in the winter with probable food shortages.

I learned from a young professor in Prague about how he was having to replace his professional training and experience in Russian culture/civilization/language with German because no one in eastern Europe wanted to have anything to do with anything about Russia.

And there were the evenings when the group sat watching the TV about the fighting as Yugoslavia collapsed; I felt a bit like I was watching a replay of the beginning of WWII. And the woman from Slovenia who was only able to get a train ticket from Berlin to Munich...the German Bundesbahn was not sure trains would be able to travel into Slovenia.

And the info we got about how many Poles tried every night to slip across the border into the former east Germany in search of a better life...and every morning they were rounded up by the border police and returned to Poland.

That was the same summer that Italy was having to deal with boatloads of Albanians seeking a better life in Italy.

At the end of my stay in Switzerland, one of my cousins said the Swiss weren't worried about a united Germany; they were dealing with the possibility that one morning they'd wake up with 1 million eastern Europeans at the border wanting in for a better life.

A week later I was back in OK, and nobody here knew anything at all about anything going on in Europe. I felt like I was in a different universe.

[Kellanved]

39. They Rock

The bests hosts possible. And a great lot to discuss/ learn about the American perspective on things. It is not like the European media is especially good at reporting about the US.

:yourock:

[Atlanticist]

40. Brit here -

this forum is great to share ideas and thoughts from across the globe. One thing it has taught me is how good British journalism is compared to the partisan "journalism" of the US. I'm amazed how many of our US DU'ers read the Guardian/Observer online and go to BBC.com. My idea of heaven would be George Bush interviewed by Jeremy Paxman (the doyen of political broadcast journalism at the BBC) 3 days before the US election - that would be sweet!!!

Thanks for making us feel welcome here - I certainly enjoy the opportunity to chip in from a British perspective.

[CHIMO]

41. Really Enjoy It

Enjoy the varied views on topics.
Hope that things in the USA become more multilateral in the future and this site is a good forum for this to occur.

Thanks.

[Lisa]

42. if anything I've gained a deeper admiration and respect for Americans

... after reading almost daily of the courage of people who are trying, in large and small ways, to make their country into a better place. As a Canadian, I often see examples of what Minstrel Boy has called "lazy anti-Americanism", because my country often defines itself in contrast to the States. Thanks to DU, I am far more likely to intervene whenever I see the US being bad-mouthed, and challenge others to identify precisely WHAT the problem is, and how we can join with like-minded Americans (particularly since Canada is just as prone to the same issues).