Stuff Michael Moore should have put in F-9/11

[devilgrrl]

I agree with this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1882965

In that the Texas Rangers and the stadium in Arlington deal was something Moore could have brought up. What other issues related to 9/11 - Iraq - The Bush Crime Family in general - did you think Moore omitted that could have/should have been mentioned?

[latebloomer]

1. Dems voting for the Iraq war

and the Patriot Act.

Though I suppose that would blur his message.

[mzmolly]

13. He did put that in the movie. Though he didn't mention that MORE DEMS

voted against the war then for it. Almost by a 3/1 margin. Funny how we forget the details of our fighting Dems. No wonder they don't fight more.

Further the Dems added an expiration to the Pat Act. I thought he should have mentioned that ;) :hi:

[latebloomer]

20. Dems in the House voted well, right?

But a poor showing in the Senate.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

22. Dems is Dems....

;) :hi:

[Mechatanketra]

36. No, they're not.

Joe Lieberman voted for the war (IIRC).
Dick Durbin voted against the war (IIRC).

Does Joe deserve any credit just because he and Dick are wearing the same letter?

I don't want Bush out of office because he's a member of the Republican Party. I want him out of office because he's a crook who does bad things, and therefore isn't fit for public office. As it happens, the Republican Party philosophy is pretty much tailored to seek out and enable crooks who do bad things -- but sadly, not everyone who isn't a Republican automatically also isn't crooked and/or not fit for public office.

[mzmolly]

39. No, does Dick deserve to be lumped in with the Lieberman?

That was my original point. Read the initial post.

"DEMS VOTED FOR THE WAR IN IRAQ." I am tired of forgetting the DEMS WHO VOTED AGAINST THE WAR, WHO STAND UP TO BUSH CONSISTANTLY.

"I don't want Bush out of office because he's a member of the Republican Party. I want him out of office because he's a crook who does bad things, and therefore isn't fit for public office. As it happens, the Republican Party philosophy is pretty much tailored to seek out and enable crooks who do bad things -- but sadly, not everyone who isn't a Republican automatically also isn't crooked and/or not fit for public office."

As to the above statement, ah no shit. :hi: But, I want Bush out because he's a Republican and becuase he's a crook. Which, as you said the R party seems to encourage.

[bpilgrim]

2. never did I DREAM i'd HIT the TRIFECTA

"I remember -- I remember campaigning in Chicago, and one of the reporters said, would you ever deficit spend? I said only -- only in times of war, in times of economic insecurity as a result of a recession, or in times of national emergency. Never did I dream we'd have a trifecta. (Laughter.)"
(President Discusses Importance of Homeland Security Department June 7, 2002)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020607-4.html



http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/trifecta/

to begin with... and neoCONs as the 2nd notion.

but hell, this is an AWESOME begining :evilgrin:

peace

[G_j]

46. is there a film clip of that? n/t

[bpilgrim]

64. how bout an -------------------------------------------> mp3

http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

i haven't seen i video but there must be one somewhere :shrug:

peace

[G_j]

66. thanks

I missed the fact that you had already posted it. :-)

So I too am wondering why MM passed it up.
If I were Kerry, I would sure use it.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Information overload would have been counterproductive.

I am sure most of us here would have sat through 3-5 hours with more details, but we are an exception, not the rule. He doesn't have to convince us.

[devilgrrl]

6. Which is the point of this thread

If critics of his movie are going to whine about what's in it - imagine if they knew how much more there was to it. :shrug:

[Sugarbleus]

18. My point too.

We saw the film Sunday. I posted a bit about it here then. Perhaps because we read pre reviews or perhaps because we knew the stuff already..we were a little underwhelmed by the film and by what was left out.

I thought there was too much silly needless stuff added and poignant, hard hitting things left out. Would have liked more on Haliburton, PNAC or pnac related activities, world protestors, and MORE blood and guts. More on the death, screaming,and dying of OUR soldiers as well as the Iraqis would, IMO, DRIVE the point home to those that are otherwise oblivious to what is going the hell on over there!!

I mean, we have domestic problems with this little hitler AND we have human beings being blown to bits overseas. Iraq IS primarily about the needless death and dying for profits isn't it?? This isn't an academic exercise I don't think?

All in all, it was a great effort and a good start for those that NEED to see it. ~~~~My opinion~~~~

[Straight Shooter]

4. F911 not in my area yet, but what about when the bombs began to drop

and bush was caught on camera, pumping his fist and saying, "Feels good!"

[devilgrrl]

8. I was very surprised that wasn't in there. (eom)

[info being]

53. The problem is, most Americans would agree with him

American's f@cking love blowing up shit.

[hippiegranny]

62. i was waiting for that too

and the trifecta remark. although, the "haves and have-mores, i guess you could say you're my base" was pretty damn rich, pun intended.

[fizzana]

5. Hallibruton ripping off the taxpayer in Iraq

There is already a ton of evidence about Halliburton cheating in Iraq and none of it made it into the movie.

[librechik]

7. one line: "Of course, we all know that Saddam Hussein was a

terrible, sadistic tyrant and made his people suffer."

It would have eliminated a crapload that will be coming his way soon.

[info being]

55. I don't feel the need to "qualify" statements that way

Its pandering.

[Sperk]

9. when * left the classroom, he spent the next 15 minutes working

on his "statement"

[Sperk]

10. MILLIONS of war protesters

and how the media wouldn't show them

[VolcanoJen]

56. YES!! And he should have showed the "Warm Welcome" the world...

... gives to Bush on his various globe-trotting escapades!


London, November 2003

[Sperk]

11. how about all the letters from nobel prize winners denouncing

Bush for one reason or another
and all the resignations

[alvis]

12. Bar's beautiful mind garbage

would have been great. Maybe in the DVD. One could hope.

[bushwakker]

23. YES

Very disappointed it's not in there.

[obietiger]

14. The staged pulling down of the statue of Saddam

I was going to say "I DREAM I'd HIT the TRIFECTA" but someone already posted that so the other thing I thought of after seeing the movie was the staged statue bit. I read somewhere that there were pictures or video taken from higher back that showed how the background was empty of people.

[Morning Dew]

15. The end of year (2001) statement by *

to the effect that he and Pickles had a pretty good year.

[supercrash]

17. I remember...

Some Carlyle group video called ..'meet the Carlyle group'...had clips of one of their meetings with Michael Jackson in it getting cozy with the Saudi's...very strange indeed

Putting Carlyle and the Saudis's in with wacko would have been good

[devilgrrl]

16. He could have brought up Chalabi...

:shrug:

[wyldwolf]

19. Remember teddy bear bombs????

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/13/inv.teddy.bear.terrorist/index.html

[Corgigal]

21. how a govt usually scrambles jets

example on Sept 11th versus when a PGA golfer is on board his private jet.

[mzmolly]

24. I dont recall if he mentioned the weapons inspectors saying Saddam was

disarmed? And, how Bush kicked them out of Iraq because he didn't like the *preliminary* findings.

But, hey it was a great movie.

[cureautismnow]

25. "He Wouldn't Let the Inspectors In..."

A whole slew of his lies and inanities, aka Bushisms, would have been nice. Perhaps, the DVD extras will be chockfull of the Smirking Chimp's misadventures with the English language.

Also, the abortion (maybe Flynt has first dibs here), funeralgate, more cocaine innuendos (interviews with other P.U.L.L. participants), nose-picking(!), Plamegate (couldn't wait for the indictments(?), etc.

There is soooooo much damaging material on His Fraudulency that MM could have given Ken Burns' Civil War a run for its money on duration!

Sure, we'd have eagerly sat through it, but the A.D.D. sheeple would never have given up that much of their precious time. :boring:

Kudos, Michael, for crafting a 2 hour masterpiece for the masses!
:yourock:

[kaiso]

26. I wish he could have attacked Hate radio somehow.... nt

[OpSomBlood]

27. PNAC 2000: "catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor"

n/t

[OpSomBlood]

28. The order signed in 6/01 requiring Rumsfeld to authorize interceptor jets.

n/t

[Cat Atomic]

29. Bush's Shock and Awe "I feel good!" fist pumping.

[heidiho]

30. The nose-picking video from the Texas Rangers game

THAT would have brought down the house!

[LTR]

40. That, and Wolfie's comb

Two major gross-out moments. Everybody in the theater groaned when they saw Wolfie lick his comb. :puke:

The nose picking would have been great to include.

Maybe in the DVD?

[LibDemAlways]

31. PNAC

I think Moore should have shown the letter written to Clinton back in 98 calling for the invasion of Iraq and prominently highlighted who signed that letter along with their current position.

Also, he should have referenced the selective service gearing up for the draft.

I thought he did a good, but too brief, job showing how the corporate whores were cheerleading the war effort. I would have liked to have seen more about how they've propped up the chimp from day 1 -- starting with not covering the protestors at the inauguration.

Maybe with the success of F911, Moore will be inspired to quickly make part 2.

[stickdog]

32. Bush's EPA lying about the health hazards of WTC debris.

100 tons of pulverized WR Grace asbestos was just a start:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5471&forum=DCForumID43

[devilgrrl]

33. How about cuts to the NYC Fire Department?

I'm sure hundreds of thousands of Fire Fighters will be showing up for the 9/11 anti-Moore film fest... </sarcasm>

[Beaker]

34. Ashcroft being anointed in oil...

for a moment there, I thought he was gonna go there, but he didn't...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/HallsOfJustice/hallsofjustice63.html

Last week began with everybody just agog over the revelation in the New York Times that Attorney General nominee Sen. John Ashcroft has a practice of anointing himself with oil — specifically, a bowl of Crisco oil — prior to beginning a new job.
Quoting from his autobiography, the Times said he anointed himself before each of his terms as governor and before he was sworn in as senator. And he did it because the "ancient kings of Israel, David and Saul" had done so...

"let the E-E-agle soar..."

[opihimoimoi]

35. The draping of "Justice" the naked marble statue.

that was hilarious and SO ASScroft

[LTR]

37. Poppy's peculiar flight itinerary on 9/11

He had a meeting in D.C. with the Carlyle Group, then hopped on a plane, which was diverted to Milwaukee.

Spent 9/12 playing golf on Milwaukee suburban courses, while the nation was glued to TV sets. This was in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. A golfer claimed he ran into the Bushes on a golf course, and struck up a conversation.

Moore claimed the meeting was that day. When did the Carlyle Group's meeting end? The attacks started early in the morning. When did he fly out? Why did he fly out? We do know he was flying to Minnesota, but it was not mentioned in the film. This was a glaring omission.

Sure, he's a former president. But a former president who still receives CIA briefings. And who attempted to fly across the country and didn't really give a shit about terror attacks, lest it interfere with his course time.

[andino]

38. a few things that my wife and I thought of...

We would have LOVED to see one of those Saudi public service announcements that they ran on TV during the Saudi / Bush ties part.

I would have liked to see something on conditions in Afghanistan during the Iraq war. I have a few friends that have come back for Afghanistan and they say it is truly horrid and that they need more troops.

Maybe a little bit about the intel that went into the war. Like on Truthout: The Iraqi War. A little explanation about how the Bush administration concluded that the Iraqi's had all these WMDs when they were destroyed but unverified. Or even that the shelf life for all that Sarin(sp) gas that Iraq was to have had only had a shelf life of 6 months and was last made in 91. Or even Colin Powell saying that the intel was intentionally misleading. More Clarke testimony and stuff of that nature.

[IrateCitizen]

41. This thread is bullshit

Sure, there's a TON of stuff that Moore COULD have put in 9/11. But he didn't, and for good reason.

He was already presenting a boatload of information that the majority of moviegoers had never seen before, so it's important to not overwhelm them. Sure, to all of us at DU, all this stuff is common knowledge. But as I sat with my wife throughout the film, she was in amazement, saying over and over again, "Wow! I didn't know that happened!"

Hell, he could have included a 30-minute dissection of PNAC in his movie. And it might have made all of us political dorks happy to see it -- but it also would have meant that we were the only ones in the theatre, and the movie would simply be preaching to the choir rather than winning hearts and minds from the undecideds and even the other side.

If you think that he left too much stuff out of the movie, I've got a suggestion for you -- GO MAKE YOUR OWN DAMNED DOCUMENTARY! Personally, I think that F9/11 is just about perfect the way it is, if its true goal is to inform and persuade the masses, rather than just reaching a small audience of political addicts. I mean, it's by far the highest-grossing documentary of all time for Chrissakes!

[devilgrrl]

42. Your post is bullshit too!

...

[IrateCitizen]

49. So, I assume you'll be releasing your documentary real soon?

...

[devilgrrl]

68. No I'm still waiting for yours - Now, go f*** a tree Asshole!

[underpants]

45. Haven't seen it yet but he couldn't put EVERYTHING in there

It still had to be entertaining. It seems to me that the point was to peak people's interest and in looking up what is in the film (again I have NOT seen it) they will find much more on their own.

For instance-ACC semifinal Saturday I was watching the game and my wife was interested in some things I had told about having learned about them on DU and research that extended from stories.

I gave her

www.newamericancentury.org
ABB (the company whose board Rummy sat on and built the No.Korean nuke plants)
and....something else.

from those three things she linked the players to being a part of many different companies and "organizations" the most frightening of which is the Hudson Institute and their plan for at least a TWO tiered educational system in the US (standardized testing and vouchers) grew from these people. THAT is a subject not touched upon even on DU and she found all of it on her own in about 4 hours.

She wrote out a flow chart that showed how connected it all is and how CONNECTED it all is, all on her own.

That is the point of the movie. Don't lead people by the nose-put them on the scent.

[IrateCitizen]

48. You and I are on the same wavelength, underpants!

Moore walked the tightrope of making an informative, provoking AND entertaining film. If he would have included more raw information in it, he probably would have lost out on provoking and entertaining.

His flick was about as close to perfect as you can get in combining the three. A piece of pure cinematic genius. Apparently, though, it just doesn't meet the standards of many of the posters here at DU, where we all are experts in persuasion and organizing.

[TreeHuggingLiberal]

54. Not bullshit...just a discussion. eom

[tom_paine]

43. He already had his information jammed in!

And he needs to make the movie entertaining and it can't go on too long.

[PartyPooper]

44. Ashcroft stopped flying commercial airplanes early in 2001.

That should have been included as well.

And, late in the film Junior (paraphrased) said, "...There's nothing wrong with a dictatorship." But, Michael LEFT OUT the last part of the statement which SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED: "...As long as I'm the dictator."

Also, I would have edited out some of the on-the-ground war footage, too. There were about 15 minutes which easily could be cut to add other more insightful material as discussed in this thread, IMO.

I'm hoping Michael will include some of our suggestions in the release of the DVD in the fall.

[G_j]

47. should have at least mentioned as as many as 10,000 civilians killed

in Iraq, during that segment. Most people have no idea how many thousands of times those heart wrenching scenes were repeated.

[yellowcanine]

50. Ashcroft covering up tits on a statue and arresting prostitutes in New

Orleans instead of tracking down terrorists.

[redqueen]

51. Um... did anyone else see this?

http://www.septembereleventh.org/alerts/index.php

Maybe Moore figured we'd help him to further the cause... so he could keep his movie entertaining.

He's done a tremendous job, and should be commended.

Now... how many people's eyes have you opened today? (not anyone personally... generic 'you' there.)

Don't follow leaders, and watch the parking meters...

[redqueen]

58. ******** PLEASE print and distribute a flyer from this site ********

I really do think Mike expected us to HELP him to get more information out to our fellow Americans.

And bring voter registration forms.

And if you can't be sneaky, please do try to do it on public property only (e.g. sidewalk in front of theater, busy streetcorner nearby, etc.). :evilgrin:

:kick:

[Mari333]

52. Moore raised . imo, just enough questions to get people thinking

who didnt know all of this. The fact that he showed the military against Bush, and the military families angry at Bush, was a lot. That will hit middle America. Lies and connections in the Bush admin to the Bin Laden family, etc
what makes me angry is that real journalists in the media would take what work Moore had done and expound on it, reveal it, and get it out to the public.
There are no real journalists it seems, anymore. Not many.
I waited all day yesterday for just ONE stinking journalist to say SOMEthing about what Moore showed in his film..Bush and his Saudi connections, the pipeline thru Afghanistan, the pic of Rummy shaking Saddam's hand..
I saw NOTHING on the news. They have been blacked out, shut up, and told to behave. All I saw was that trumped up horseshite Iraqi handover. That was Rove trying to cover up the truth.
He cant do it forever.

[toddzilla]

57. HELLLO??? INSIDER TRADING CONNECTED WITH 9-11???

[KansDem]

59. The anthrax attacks???

This story seems to have disappeared, but certain members of Congress WERE targeted and I'd like to have seen some reference to why this crime has not been solved and apparently forgotten.

Perhaps a simple reference following the shot of Daschle and Gephardt "agreeing" to give Bush total power. It would remind us that Daschle was one such public figure targeted by this act of terrorism.

[skypilot]

60. I know that I run this into the ground but...

...I really think that Bush's "There's one terrible pilot" quote should have made it into the movie. I was also disappointed--and a little surprised--that the BBC footage of Bush right before he announced to the American people that we were going to war was cut short.

[Bridget Burke]

61. And he left out Tom Bombadil!

Oops, wrong movie. But there's only so much stuff that can fit into one movie.

Some of this might come out in the DVD. And let's not forget our roles as suppliers of supplementary material. When someone asks--is it true about....? We can say yes & explain the details. Then we can say--"And did you know about....?

[Zinfandel]

63. Fucking back off, clowns, It'll all be in the DVD in a few month's...

It'll be loaded with "Special Features"

What in the fuck more can one do in one hour & 56 minutes?????

[bpilgrim]

65. he could link to DU

since it's all right here, NOW

peace

[TrogL]

67. Funeralgate

[cprise]

69. I believe the DVD release will have bonus material

See this discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x10146