Reagan was an excellent Head of State. As Head of Govt. he was a disaster.

[NEOBuckeye]

Before you jump the gun, hear me out on this one. I think this is the kind of distinction in roles we need to make when we examine our presidents, since the U.S. Presidency combines the generally ceremonial role of "Head of State" with the more political "Head of Government". When you examine and assess presidents according to how they performed in each of the two roles, I think even the most die-hard liberal can grant Reagan some respect in his charismatic ability (Head of State) to handle matters of diplomacy (i.e. the Soviet Union) and rally the country together in times of mourning and crisis (i.e. Challenger). However, as the Head of Government, Reagan's policies of thwarting President Carter's energy conservation and alternative initiatives, union-busting and trickle-down economics were destructive, utterly and abysmally bankrupt, making him a genuine loser in this area.

Of course, you can pretty much apply this formula to any president. Clinton, for example, was both an effective Head of State (particularly in international affairs) and Head of Government... well, until Monica, anyway. Nixon was similarly successful in both roles, until Watergate took him down. Ford and Carter were relatively weak in both roles, however. Bush I was "okay" as Head of State, with many more successes abroad than at home. But as Head of Government, he was somewhat lame, especially during the last year of his sole term. His son, Dubya, as we all can see, is destructively abysmal in both roles.

Thoughts? Comments?

[DNA]

1. I'm going to assume

you're white and non-Latino. Reagan played up the racist angle quite a bit and his Latin American policy was criminal. I don't think blacks or Latinos can casually proclaim Reagan "an excellent head of state."

[On the Road]

2. Hadn't Thought of it That Way

but that's a good distinction.

It it true that he could have screwed up the peace with Russia. There were plenty of Republicans screaming that Gorbachev could not be trusted, that he was an evebn a more dangerous foe, that it was all a trick to give the Soviets the upper hand, and so forth. The peace was 95% Gorbachev's going, but Reagan had the confidence, shrewdness, and optimism to strike a good deal. That is one thing I will say for him.

Image Richard Pearle put in charge of those negotiations.

[Career Prole]

3. Beggin' your pardon, but I'm inclined to disagree with the following...

"Clinton, for example, was both an effective Head of State (particularly in international affairs) and Head of Government... well, until Monica, anyway.'
I just want to make sure you understand that what cut into Clinton's effectiveness as Head of Government was the avowed hatred of the Republicans. They couldn't stand him before Lewinsky, but afterwards they pulled out all the stops.
IMO, he never lost his effectiveness as Head of State because if you haven't forgotten, it (the Lewinsky affair) was only viewed as a scandal by (mainly conservative) Americans. Our allies were frankly puzzled by the hubbub over it.

[ThomWV]

6. I Never Understood It Either

I figgured that three quarters of the old fart Republicans out there really wanted to bang the bright young office assistant, and maybe even a few of them had, so who the hell were they to come down on Clinton so hard?

I have to tell you, I never thought much about Clinton much one way or another up until after the '96 election. I had voted for him, of course, but I had no really deep and fast opnion of him, other than I thought he was smart and capable. I sort of figgured everone felt about the same as me. Then I was down in North Carolina over the summer of '97 and I met this old fart who was a retired deputy or something from Tarboro, NC. This old boy went off on Clinton one night when a bunch of us were just sitting around chatting and I was just stunned. Clinton was hated by this old guy and, as it turned out, just about everyone there except me. These sons and daughters of the south would have taken Clinton out and hanged him right then and there. I was shocked, really shocked. I couldn't defend Clinton, because he really shouldn't have been out there bonkin' the hired help, but at the same time I didn't blame him a bit for lieing about it. But at the same time I thought these old fools who are berating him so badly sure as hell aren't blameless themselves.

[Career Prole]

7. It was the media machine then, same as now.

They reacted to what they heard on the radio, or what the neighbor said, and just accepted it. Kind of a screwy way to choose a government, I think. Seems a lot of people put more thought into picking a watermelon out in the grocery store than into picking a president. :shrug:

[bluedog]

4. Did you Know??

6 Mar 1981 Ronald Reagan's second press conference held, in which names of reporters are drawn out of a jellybean jar. Those not chosen (including Associated Press and two of the Big Three TV networks) mostly boycott the conference in disgust.

21 Sep 1983 Ronald Reagan's Secretary of the Interior, James Watt, describes his staff's racial diversity to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce: "We have every mixture you can have. I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple. And we have talent." Watt is forced to resign 18 days later over these comments.


6 Mar 1985 During a White House briefing on the MX missile, President Ronald Reagan opines: "Nuclear war would be the greatest tragedy, I think, ever experienced by mankind, in the history of mankind."


18 Apr 1985 "I think that there's nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery , where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."



4 Dec 1985 Anticipating arms control discussions with his Soviet counterpart, President Reagan draws on an extraterrestrial analogy: "ow easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries ..."

17 Feb 1987 Soviet premier Mikhail Gorbachev reveals Reagan's preoccupation with space aliens: "At our meeting in Geneva, the U.S. President said that if the earth faced an invasion by extraterrestials, the United States and the Soviet Union would join forces to repel such an invasion. I shall not dispute the hypothesis, though I think it's early yet to worry about such an intrusion..."

23 Nov 1981 After President Reagan vetoes an emergency spending bill which would have prevented a shutdown of the federal government, House Speaker Tip O'Neill tells a reporter: "He knows less about the budget than any president in my lifetime. He can't even carry on a conversation about the budget. It's an absolute and utter disgrace."


21 Apr 1980 Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan is quoted in Newsweek magazine as saying: "Because Vietnam was not a declared war, the veterans are not even eligible for the G.I. Bill of Rights with respect to education or anything." The claim is provably false.

3 Oct 1972 "I am very proud to be called a pig. It stands for pride, integrity, and guts." Speech in Oroville, CA

10 Oct 1965 California gubernatorial candidate Ronald Reagan is quoted in the Fresno Bee as saying: "We should declare war on North Vietnam... It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking strips on it, and be home by Christmas."


20 Oct 1965 California gubernatorial candidate Ronald Reagan is quoted in the Los Angeles Times as saying: "I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at the point of a bayonet, if necessary."

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/ronald-reagan/
17 Jun 1966 California gubernatorial candidate Ronald Reagan is quoted in the Los Angeles Times as saying: "I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

[MadHound]

5. Sorry friend, but that just doesn't fly with me

All throughout Reagan's term of office and beyond people seemed all ga-ga at how Reagan could "make people feel proud to be an American" or simply just feel good. And while I won't disagree with this, it was his methods that I found abhorent.

Reagan basically extolled a jingoistic nationalism that appealed to the baser instincts of the populace. No nuance, no humility, no concept of how to be a good winner. Just keep cranking out USA-USA-USA was all the man did. Sure, it played well in Peoria, and around the country, but it did long term damage to America's reputation abroad. Also, it laid the groundwork for the same bipolar "with us or against us" type of mentality that we are seeing now.

It is the same type of rhetoric and mindset that was prevalent in Nazi Germany. To see this type of jingoistic nationalism arise in our own country is frightening. Today it is just chanting and cheering, tommorrow it very well be Krystalnacht II.