DU Vets: I think I need a wake up call!

[wheresthemind]

Tell me...

I've honestly had an strange kind of attraction to joining the Military. I'm a huge liberal and extremely anti-war, but have internally flirted with the idea of some day serving. This is probably just teenage angst but I'm wondering what you, as a vets who I know have seen and experienced some horrible things for your country, overall advice would be to someone like me.

Note I am not at this time seriously considering joining the Military, but I'd like to know what you would tell a naive 16 year old kid who has no idea what its really like being in the army. I'm worried that all the war movies, video games, and recruitment ads are distorting my sense of reality and would like a bit of perspective from you guys.

Please enlighten me...

Note: I'm not just looking for Military negatives, if you have good things please share. Just gimme the truth! : )

Double note: I'm very very tired and another post got me thinking about this!

This is not a thread for bashing of any kind!

EDIT: Goin to sleep so don't stress yourself writing a response! I will check this tomorrow and give it a bump then. Thanks guys!

[ErasureAcer]

1. Videogames...Metal Gear Solid

Dunno if you ever played Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2 for the Playstation, Platstation 2.

But truly, play those games for it does paint the pentagon in a horrible light. And the funny thing about it? It is set in the real world, real facts, real history, and so forth. The first game(although there were earlier games on the NES)...deals with the nuke race a lot and one's nature. While the second game deals with the government itself in all its fassets and one's nurture.

Most people who don't play videogames say they have no meaning...but MGS and MGS2(my 2nd and 3rd fav games...behind the masterpiece that is called Xenogears) have definitely given me a more jaded outlook on everything the pentagon does.

Basically, the pentagon and the president are evidently the bad guys...with competition between the army and the navy reaking havoc with their race to get the ultimate weapon...mobile nuclear war machines.

Truly...the 2 games together and their stories lead up to a compelling idea that there is indeed a SHADOW GOVERNMENT pulling all the strings.

Anyhow, in these games...while they are quite violent...the heroes show that war isn't good one bit. That being a tool, a pawn, a nobody--a soldier is worthless unless you're in command.

So these heroes command themselves...one man armies against the pentagon, against the shadow government.

Truly, while much of the stories are fiction...the game hits home with so many themes on why being a pawn to this shadow government is just fucking stupid.

You shouldn't join the army or any other branch of the military. If you wanna be a hero...fight your government...don't sell your life away to wackos with power...if you do join the military...you'll be just another sucker in Iraq or some other country.

Anyhow everyone should go play MGS and MGS2 now...thought provoking stuff on nature vs nuture, American Government, and being a tool to the Pentagon.

[JohnKleeb]

4. I have both of those

I love em and they do make you think :).

[ErasureAcer]

7. Awesome...

they really are deep games. The ending to both games are simply phenomenal.

Glad I'm not the only MGS nut here. :)

[JohnKleeb]

8. Yeah I agree

I also love medal of honor; really gives me an appreciation for veterans and fuels my interest in WWI, I guess I would enlist if I lived back then but today I aint got no urge.

[imhotep]

2. honest answer

The only part I enjoyed while in the Army, was jumping out of a plane 1 day a month. The rest of the time was a living nightmare.

[ErasureAcer]

3. Seems the MGS was right.

Listen to this dude. Listen to the game.

[pbeal]

5. I liked it, I hated it, I would do it again given the choice

As much as some of the people on this board paint the Military as the root of all that is evil.

I had a lot of good times and a lot of bad times.

If I knew then what I know now, I and I was in the same situation I was in out of high school, there would be some things I would change but enlisting would not be one of them.

It helped me find a path in life when I had no Idea what I wanted to do and had no money to do it with.

Single Worse thing was seeing a the bullet ridden corpse of a Panamanian Defense Force member holding a white flag, the machine gun that got him was about 800 meters away and it was night there is no way the gunner could have seen the flag.

Best things
30 day paid vacation every year,
$12 plane rides to almost anywhere on the planet,
cheap collage while in service(if you have time)
motivation to actually do something with life
lot of other stuff build self esteem.. leadership skills. personal strength teamwork.

[punpirate]

6. Forget games....

Ask yourself if you're ready for the government to own your soul and your ass for three years minimum. If you can tolerate that, and drill instructors in your face all day, every day, for months, to trade your independence for a number, then you can manage it. If you're not willing to do that, I'd reconsider, war games notwithstanding.

Cheers.

[pbeal]

9. Oh please

its 2 years min, and unless your a total screw up drill instructors are not in your face all day, every day, basic training is only 9 weeks, unless your combat Arms you don't see drill instructors in AIT. There is also a lot of independence is it the same as a civilian no but its not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pbeal]

11. when did you serve the 60s - mid 70s?

Military hasn't been that bad since they ended the draft.

But given your shining personality I could see why Drill instructors would make you a daily favorite.

[punpirate]

12. Not worthy of further comment.

[OldSoldier]

16. These days you do see drill sergeants in AIT units

In 1986 the Army decided that all AIT soldiers needed positive role models in their lives, so they put drill sergeants at AIT level.

I went to AIT twice because I had two MOS. The first time I was living across the hall from a staff sergeant who could only be described as a "bad influence"--his mission in life was to teach the new troops the "finer points" of military intelligence life--drinking hard liquor and smoking cigars. The second time I was one of the bad influences; they had a special barracks they made us live in, so that it would be harder for us to contaminate the trainees. (Note I did not say impossible.)

[jcc]

13. Keep in mind the alternatives

There are a number of things that attract people to a career or a short stint in the military. For some it is the correct decision and others did not think their decision all the way through. I would suggest looking at the reasons you want to join. Many things that draw people to the military, the skills they can acquire there and such, can be obtained through non-military venues. In joining the military you must give up many freedoms such as the right to speak out against the government for example. Being a young liberal on this site tells me that you might not want to give up that right. Another thing to consider is the privatization of the military where your welfare goes to the lowest bidder. I do know people that loved their time in the service and wouldn’t give it up for anything, but still even they have flashbacks and night-sweats. Think through your decision very carefully for the next two years, because once you sign that contract, you can’t get out.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi jcc!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sujan]

14. Go Peace Corp

Much better way to serve your country and the world.

[SodoffBush]

15. Coast Guard, maybe

Forget the other branches for now. Even the most conservative soldier is saying Bush has screwed them royally.

What's wrong with Jr. College until we see what the future bears?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. If you really, really, love boredom..

join up. You will spend most of your time with a bunch of other guys, equally bored, doing totally meaningless things, for really stupid bosses.

And, the ultimate horror, you may very well be called on to kill people that you don't know, have nothing against, and may even be sympathetic to. The purpose of the military, the only real purpose, despite all of the slogans, is to kill people. They will not enquire of you whether you think killing any particular people is right, or just, or if it may haunt you for the rest of your life. You will have NO choices in the matter.

Rather than play video games, pick up a few books.

USMC - '61-'65

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. my friend's experience

She turned 18 and joined the Army. She *loved* bootcamp, said it was lots of hard work, got her into shape, and gave her some discipline. But her recruiter lied (they always do) hinting she would get college money, a career in technology or intelligence, but they sent her to repair tanks. She's not so happy anymore. On the other hand, I have plenty of career military in my family, and they all seemed to love it - that was all pre-Bush though. Things might have changed dramatically for the worst.

[PapaClay]

20. For what it's worth...

Learn more before you join. Different services have different deals. For example, I think you can still enlist in some services for a specific specialty. If you dig electronics and/or computers, you can acquire excellent skills. Don’t assume that you have to be a rifle-toting ground-pounder. One of the keys to success in the military is to make informed choices. Talk to as many vets as you can.

Navy or Coast Guard are probably your best choices right now if you want to avoid occupation duty in Iraq. You want to avoid that if possible. Urban “peacekeeping” is being a duck in a shooting gallery.

Being in the military is like working for a large corporation, the benefits are good but the work environment can suck. On an annual basis, I spent more time away from my family in my last job than in most years in the military. There are hardships but, depending on which service you’re in and your job, they usually amount to some sleep deprivation on occasion, and boredom.

Is there bullshit in the military? You betcha. There is also a lot of bullshit in the land of corporate stupid. If you want to totally avoid bullshit, become a hermit. If you absolutely loathe authority and discipline, don’t join the military. Of course you won’t enjoy most civilian jobs either.

And, contrary to what you may read here and elsewhere, the military is not a pack of bloodthirsty, slavering, right-wing fundamentalist Orcs. The military is a cross section of society in general. You get all kinds. And most people in the military are anti-war at a very fundamental level – they have skin in the game. Yes, there are liberals in the military. And yes, there are some combat-happy, kill-a-commie-for-Christ types. Most of them are cases of testosterone poisoning, adrenaline addiction, arrested development, or some combination of the three.

When I enlisted in 69 (2 days ahead of my draft notice) I was very liberal and anti-war (more specifically, against imperialistic wars of aggression; I am not a pacifist). Twenty years later, I walked away; still a liberal (and still against imperialistic wars of aggression). I had good times and bad times. The benefits outweighed the bullshit, most of the time. It is a different lifestyle though, and you can't resign unless your an officer. So look before you leap.

Hope this helps

[lumpy]

21. Sure the military is great .

It makes a man out of you if you aren't yet a man. Gives you a chance for a career or schooling that doesn't always pan out, might get a lump sum if you sign up, a chance to see the world. Your heart and soul belongs to Uncle if you are a good soldier. It is a great career if you don't have to go kill innocent people and live under unimaginable conditions in an unjust war begat by power hungry politicians.

[Romulus]

22. my .02

My five years in the Marines were (luckily) from 1990-95, mainly during the Clinton years.

I joined at 18 to (1) do something else after getting booted from college for bad grades, and (2) do something else besides live at home in a dysfunctional family environment. A lot of people were surprised because I was always "the quiet smart kid."

It was a great decision, overall, and the hardest choice I have made in life was to leave and go back to the civilian world.

You learn a lot about yourself (cliched, but true), share the esprit of working with other people to supposedly protect your country (depends on who is pres, though), and for a young guy it was fun to DO the military things you see on the History Channel.

Be sure you research the branches of service to see which one interests you the most. The Marines have a proud tradition, and are known to be the best warfighters (flame on!!), so I went with them - but I wasn't a "warfighter". I had a good recruiter that sat down and asked me what I wanted to get out of my enlistment - education, adventure, etc. - and helped steer me to jobs that would meet those goals. That meant he nixed the machine-gunner and anti-tank assaultman billets I originally had in mind. He told me about the sort of lifestyle and schedule those guys keep and how it would be extremely hard to attend and complete a semester of night classes when you're in the field training or deployed somewhere with little notice. I eventually went with Intel because (a) I thought it sounded neat, (b) I would be using my brain, and (c) it would give me somewhat marketable skills if I chose to leave after my enlistment.

My two intel billets were with front-line units (tank and infantry), so I got to participate in all the neat training like helo assaults, armored vehicle ride-alongs, machine-gun range, urban warfare tactics, mine deployment and clearing, advanced squad tactics, etc., but I still went back to an office to do my "real" work, instead of receiving the constant bullshit that Marine "warfighters" have to put up with from their superiors, i.e. the draconian "Foreign Legion-type" lifestyle.

The bad part is that the military is definitely a caste system, one that I couldn't live under even, though I had a chance to get commissioned as an officer and join the "nobility." Just keep that in mind and make sure you can handle that. Apparantly my cousin is having a hard time with that and always seems to be in trouble, even though I warned him about that aspect of things:eyes:

edited to add: the new GI Bill gives people A LOT of money for school, enough to cover most in-state tuition and more. When I got my benefits it covered most of my rent for three years of undergrad and a year and a half of law school - and that was the "puny" amount from the mid-90's. Being a veteran definitely helped with state aid for my undergrad tuition - I have less that 17 grand total in undergrad loans for 8 semesters of schooling. If I would have had the current benefits and been in school today I would have NO undergrad debt.

[wheresthemind]

23. wow guys this is really interesting to me!

It sounds almost like camp....

I didn't always like being there, but I came away from it with good memories and feeling better.

I know thats a very very bad comparison but yeah...

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. Just say

NO