On the whole Nader pie in the face thing

[Born_a_Democrat]

1. Waste of a good pie in my opinion (a brick would have done a better job)

2. If Gore was such a terrible candidate then why did he get more votes than Bush? Even if he was a bad candidate by NOT voting for him in what is essentially a TWO party system Naderites voted for BUSH...the WORSE candidate...and I say that not as an opinion. After two and a half years, 4 million jobs lost, 600 billion dollars in debt and countless dead in an Imperial war I think the words "WORSE candidate" are factual

3. Face Facts! Nader will never be president. This is a democracy so you can keep voting for Bush if you want...just stop bitching whenever he drills another hole in a protected park or given another trillion dollars to his buddies.

Naderites think that they should be able to vote for Nader. Then if Nader doesn't win Bush shouldn't do anything in his nature as a Republican (like Rape the planet and it's poorest people so he can bathe in cash)....pleease...

Get a clue...

[meegbear]

1. I like the cut of your jib ...

couldn't have said it better.

[hippiechick]

2. why do you call Greens 'Naderites' ?

That's the same as calling Dem's "Gore-ites" - whether they agreed with him or not, just because he was the party's candidate. Does that mean if Lieberman gets the Dem nod, I can call all Dem's "Lieberites" ??

I am a Green, but am volunteering on the Dean campaign and have mostly voted Dem in the past. I believe in what the Greens stand for, but that doesn't preclude me from voting for whomever I think is the best candidate - from any party.

And for the record, Nader was NEVER an actual 'member' of the Green party.


Make the distinction, please ... Ralph does not equal the Green Party, and the Green Party does not equal Ralph Nader.

Thank you.


:hippie:

[edward]

3. Ignorance.

Why make clear distinctions. It get in the way of venting.

[Born_a_Democrat]

4. distinction then

Ok...if you wish to be called just Greens then so be it...

however, as is often the case...the party gets labeled with the face of it's most prominent member..

And as for "ignorance"...the age old cry of the man who finds himself in a corner he can't talk his way out of...nice try though!

[edward]

6. You youself admitted that it was not a correct description.

Get tired of people who hate Nader and need to call people "naderites" as if anyone who participates in green politics is obsessed with one man. You are; we are not.

[Born_a_Democrat]

8. keep talking...you're still in the corner

as for hating Nader...I wasn't the one who split from the party...he hated me first.

[AntiLempa]

9. hate you?

I think he hated the procorporate policies that the Democrats were putting forward. There was a reason that corporations donated a lot of money to the Clinton led Democratic Party.

[Born_a_Democrat]

12. If Nader hated Clinton

Then he hated me because after I saw the results of what he did for this country I would vote for Clinton blindfolded and with one hand tied behind my back.

[AntiLempa]

18. Clinton. . .

So by that logic, you supported the murder of Iraqis, unjust treatment of Haitian refugees, the underminding of a Haiti's democratically elected president, the loss of millions of jobs, Clinton's welfare reform. . .

[Blue_Chill]

29. The loss of millions of jobs??????

[AntiLempa]

30. yes.

[Old and In the Way]

50. A bit misleading.

This is a statistical table looking at a single facet of our economy. A net 21 million new jobs were created during the Clinton years.

[enki23]

37. you can do that?

one-handed, blindfolded, and you *still* vote democratic! that's really saying something. i assume the democrats did that to you, otherwise it really wouldn't seem to be something which i should expect to influence your decision. i mean, it wouldn't seem very remarkable otherwise.

or do you think it would be easier to vote green than democrat, if one were blind and one handed? i'm pretty sure you can get someone to help you with that, you know. if you have difficulty voting.

or do you mean you'll valiantly hold out against the helper's efforts to force you to vote green? are the helpful volunteers at your polling place secret green operatives? maybe they are. that would be impressive of you, i'm sure. i'd tip my hat to you, but my hair's all fucked up.

[Born_a_Democrat]

47. Wow! a Green statement full of facts...

Try it in English this time....

As an old saying goes: Que tiene que ver el culo con el tomate?

[enki23]

54. i'm sorry for making fun of your nonsensical statement

i'm sure you're much smarter than you appear.

;-)

[edward]

17. What's this corner stuff?

Are you building something? Was I supposed to help you with your kitchen?

[TahitiNut]

16. A minor correction.

It's not "Lieberites" ... it's "Liebermaniacs". OK? :silly:

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. It was the Biotic Baking Brigade

I bet. I heard about these people in California, one time they pied the Mayor Willie Brown since he was evicting people left and right to bring in more dot-coms (oh, yeah, good strategy there Willie)

http://www.bioticbakingbrigade.org/

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. The BBB has NOT claimed responsibility!

I just checked the site, and no official statement. Do you think there is some other group of rebel bakers serving up sweet sweet justice?

Perhaps they were mad about Nader's anti-union attitude - he thinks his organizations are too holy to allow the workers to unionize - what a hypocrite!

[AntiLempa]

7. Paging Mr. Orwell

3. Face Facts! Nader will never be president. This is a democracy so you can keep voting for Bush if you want...just stop bitching whenever he drills another hole in a protected park or given another trillion dollars to his buddies.<<<

This is a democracy, so you can't vote for the candidate of your choice.

[Born_a_Democrat]

10. your point?

Nader = Bush proxy

You are voting...I never said don't. In fact I'm encouraging you to...just don't throw a stone at a window and then bitch about flying glass

[AntiLempa]

14. my point

My point was your contradiction. I live in a Democracy and I chose to vote for Nader. That doesn't mean that I voted for Bush, it means that I voted for Nader. If I wanted to vote for Bush, I would have punched the hole next to his name.

Besides, even if Nader was on the ballot Gore would NOT have received my vote. Him and Clinton were so toxic on so many issues that effected so many people.

And before you ask, Bush is just as toxic if not more, but he is more honest about his toxicity.

[Born_a_Democrat]

20. "Bush is honest" Tell me this didn't come from a Green

Thank you for making my point about Greens voting for Bush...

Bush is more honest...LOL....just because a drunk man (correction) unzips his fly and reveals his true nature doesn't mean he's more honest than one who's sober...

But I did get your point about how you like Bush because of his "honesty"...lol

[AntiLempa]

22. Me a Green?

I'm a Green? When did this happen?

When I said that Bush was honest I was referring to him being honest about his toxicity. I apologize for not elaborating. He is more honest about his pro-business policies, imperialism, cutting of social programs, hatred for public schools, keeping medical care private, corproate managed trade, dislike of the lower class. . .

[edward]

24. Do you read the post before replying?

It said "I chose to vote for Nader."

[imhotep]

11. So much tolerance

and compassion.....
Until DU bans greens and non-partisan liberals, you people should get over it. Your version of the democratic party is nothing but tyranny.

[Born_a_Democrat]

13. strange tyrrany

that allows such posts as



Your version of the democratic party is nothing but tyranny.


hmm...

[CBGLuthier]

15. This post is still here

You advocate violence against Nader, I alerted the second it appeared and it is still here.

And yeah, tell me it was "just a joke"

Interesting.

[Born_a_Democrat]

23. Violence against who??

son, I don't even advocate violence against Bush...if I did it would make me as bad as he is.

I advocate substitutions and saving pies...


I didn't throw the pie nor would I...LOL...

[CBGLuthier]

33. Nader

"Waste of a good pie in my opinion (a brick would have done a better job)"

Now I may be mistaken but I would think a brick in the face would hurt someone a bit.

[Born_a_Democrat]

38. I didn't advocate the act...only the substitution

In order to eat the pie...LOL...

Electro Shock Therapy as well as Electro-paddles hurt quite a bit I'm sure...but they are still used on the mentally ill and those who need to be brought back into the world of the living (respectively)....

If Nader would stop smoking during election season perhaps he'd see the greater good instead of ranting about his own agenda...

Mentally ill? Dead? maybe he's both...

[DinahMoeHum]

21. Nader has no sense of humor whatsoever. . .

Somebody else in his position would have tossed off a quip.

:evilfrown:

[cprise]

25. What a sore gloater

...and completely humorless (to put it mildly).

In any case, Issa and Schwartzie know they can count on this kind of cowardly response from Democrats.

[Blue_Chill]

27. Issa and Schwartzie

know they have the green ol party to pull out the rug from under the dems.

[cprise]

56. More compliments

...(or is it an admission) on the power these ex-Dems can command. They are neither cattle-rancher nor cattle, which means there is something more than Brand-mentality the Greens took with them as the DLC slammed the door behind them!

[WilliamPitt]

26. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

[THUNDER HANDS]

34. excellent point William

:)

[tom_paine]

43. I agree, great point, Sir William

Yet another "lifetime Democrat" coming in stirring up hatreds.

Sound familiar?

:crazy: :silly:

[Kamika]

28. agree with the brick part

If greens were serious theyd vote dem in the presidentials.

Sometimes the lesser evil is ALOT better then the other

[chadm]

31. Kind of interesting...

how the thread about ideas is dead while there are several Nader-bashing threads active. Too many of you are unimaginative and repetative.

[edward]

32. You sound like a Naderite green loving Republican.

Sorry, sarcasm seems like the only reply. Long live Democracy!

[CWebster]

35. Get the hell over it

Nader devoted his life to advocacy in the public interest, yet you would spew more venom in DLC style attacks on the Left than you would on Bush and his minions.

Get your damn priorities in line.

[edward]

36. Wonder if it is an age thing.

Us "older" folks grew up with Nader very much in the lead in criticizing corporate crime; as a consumer advocate. My aunt was proud to be known as a "Nader raider."
Since the rightward shift in politics in 1980, even people who might think of themselves as liberal, seem "conservative" by pre-1980 standards.

[Born_a_Democrat]

39. coservative by comparison?

Does that tell you anything? Like perhaps that most people ACTUALLY grew up and realized that the extreme left was not the place for the "mainstream"?

And isn't the "mainstream" what we say Bush isn't representing...?

Isn't the "mainstream" what we want to represent?

So if you call me "conservative" and the right wing wacko's call me "liberal" then that must mean I'm in just the right place...

[edward]

41. Forgot to add that. Was not talking about you.

Did not write post to call you a conservative. Was just ruminating; don't know your politics that well.
Reagan as president used to tell racist "jokes" in his speeches. He made that mainstream. It's a matter of politics and what people are willing to fight for.
My point was that since Reagan's victory in 1980, what has been called "maistream" has gotten very conservative.

[CWebster]

45. Parroting Right Wing poison accusations

What did people realize about Nader and his anti-corporate gouging of this country that they found so objectionable?

NOTHING! Not a god damn thing. What they hear is that Nader is "fringe" or the hated "liberal" and use that as the basis of their centrist calculations. Consider yourself a right-wing success story. All their think tanks and billion pumped into creating the illusions to smear consumer advocates, not for what they represent, but how they are marginalized by the consensus definition of "Leftist fringe" assumed as convention.

[CWebster]

40. It has been my suspicion too

The amazing thing is they see DLC tactics targeting the Left, yet they seem totally unconscious of the forces that molded their opinion to pin the entire blame on Nader...Not a mention of the stolen election, the disenfranchised Afro-American voters, the questionable butterfly ballot, the set-up mob of hired thugs intimidating the recount, the deliberate running down the clock, only to claim the deadline didn't allow time, the stacked Supreme Court and the pathetic rationale, the brother Jeb and Katherine Haris act, the lousy legal defense of Gore, the lack of support for Gore, the disdain of Gore's evolving populist tones, finding firm footing after vacillating under DLC party directives who discouraged traditional Democratic Party values in favoe of corporate sponsored Republican-lie sympathies.

[edward]

42. Yes.

The Senate only needed one sponsor for the House proposal to look into the disenfranchisement of african-american voters in Florida.
Not one Senator stood up. Not one.

[Born_a_Democrat]

48. All of your "reasons why Bush won" are correct

except that NOT A SINGLE ONE on it's own could overturn the election except the Bush-loving Naderites voting for the only party (able to win that election) that is closest to their views.

If Naderites would have voted logically none of the other reasons would have mattered.

[Kamika]

44. nader =worse threat then bush

thing is. Ppl voting for bush will vote for bush.. SOME ppl that voted nader would have voted gore

[cprise]

59. So Greens can be herded about

...if you keep choices limited, while right-wingers and swing voters stick with the candidate they want?

That is backwards.

A Green voter is more likely to be someone who wouldn't vote otherwise, or who would vote Socialist. The Democratic party does not own the economic Left as long as the DLC runs things, and to their credit it seems they realize this.

So then, what do you want? To limit voter choice? Just try to get rough with Right-wing third parties and see how far you get. But of course this isn't about fairness...

[monkeyboy]

46. Nader will NEVER have to worry about a brick to the face

There isn't a single Democrat alive who has the guts. You're all to busy screaming "Don't hurt me!" to the Repukes to do anything like that. That's OK, you pussies keep posting your drivel as the Pukes take us all to the cleaners.

[Born_a_Democrat]

49. What an apt name you've chosen for your DU profile

when cornered just say "you don't have the guts"...LOL

laughable....

[monkeyboy]

53. Cornered? Who's cornered?

You're kinda new around here, aren't you sonny? You go ahead and have your little fun, and the grown-ups will still be here when you're gone back to your video game board.

[Born_a_Democrat]

55. New around here? LOL

Brilliant argument...What you'd really like me to say is:

"I'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD LONGER THAN BLAH BLAH BLAH"...

your tactics are predictable, ineffectual and in fact laughable...


Perhaps your name should be monkey-spanker since it obviously looks as though you have little to no experienced in political discussion and your hands might be more adept at doing something other than typing.

quit while you're behind...you'll feel better about yourself.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. Giving him a pie in the face only gave him more attention

I just wish things were different and his speaking wouldn't guarantee a Republican victory in Caifornia where Republicnas have their sites set on Workers Compensation programs, energy and programs for the poor.

The poor will suffer for Nader's and the Greens ideology. No Republicans will be enticed to vote green...only those that might otherwise vote Democratic.

[Iverson]

52. Didn't realize you liked Hillary-bashing.

You may not have used her name, but you replicated the form and mentality to a tee.

"Get a clue..."

Indeed. Get some civility.

[newyawker99]

57. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=168616


I am locking this one.


NYer99
DU Moderator

[bvar22]

58. WOW.... a REAL SUPERMAN!!!!!

I never realized that ONE MAN could be sooo incredibly powerful.Ralph Nader caused Al Gore and the Democratic Party to lose an entire presidential election. Is the Democratic Party that WEAK???

Nader didn't STEAL ANY votes that BELONGED to the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party threw away those votes in order to appease their Corporate Sponsors.

Get a clue. You are looking at a MOVEMENT!